Bush says he takes Trump's immigration remarks personally

[JDGRUEN]

Then Jeb should take his sorry ass back to Mexico, where he wished he was from...

Trump is a loose cannon, but he does have a point when it comes to illegal immigration in the US...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#.VZh6sBOqqko

One thing about a very rich guy of wealth independent of the political system, he can simply say what he believes to be the truth... No matter how much others want to do the Politically Correct talk and hide the truth. PC is just society imposed censorship and is most often done by an opposing political side to shut the other side up from telling the truth of the matter. And the truth is Illegal Aliens commit a higher frequency of serious crimes out of proportion to their numbers - even at a number of 20 million.

And course dumb butt Jeb has his Hispanic wife to protect who is of dodgy citizenship legality - a wife who was also caught attempting to smuggle considerable contraband through customs some years back. Jeb has this insane idea that coddling and pandering for the Hispanic vote in 2016 will get him elected. Foolish thinking as today's Hispanics - who more often have emotional connections to the illegal alien issue because of many many family relationships ARE NEVER going to vote Republican in any significant numbers -- Jeb is a Fool on a fool's errand.

Conservatives who make up a huge core of the Republican vote HATE Jeb Bush who pretends to be a Conservative when election time comes around. And the only reason Jeb is in the race is money, support from the GOP/RNC and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- everyone but the core Republican voter. Jeb will not make it through the Primaries. Considering that Jeb's only stellar performance was being an very good leader in managing Hurricane safety and communications procedures for several severe hurricanes in Florida, Jeb should be considered for FEMA Director and that is as high as he should go.

Trump calls 'em as he sees 'em because he is free to pursue the truth - free of the speech shackles of Political Correctness ... The Mexican border is a open highway totally infringing on Sovereignty of the United States of America. Democrats do not want to seal this border as it would stop the flow of future undocumented Democrat voters. And then there are the Elitists so called Republican Leadership - also knows as RINOs -- Republicans in Name Only.. out numbered by conservatives 10 to 1 but somehow the RINOs keep a stranglehold on Republican politics. RINOs cannot stop their foolish addiction of hating their huge core of voters and wining and dining illegal aliens .. instead of working to get 10-12-15 percent of the 50 million adult Americans who consistently do not vote every Presidential election to vote Republican... Too much work - when the RINOs can just give the country away to illegal aliens.

You make a very strong case. Unfortunately, the strong case you're making is how the GOP is a dying party. Jeb Bush has the best chance of winning the general election next year. I can't think of one other Republican candidate who can reach the diverse American electorate like J. Bush, yet, the right wingers are tearing this guy to shreds. What the core of the GOP consistently fails to see is that America is changing and most Americans do not subscribe to their values and beliefs. The right wing of America is becoming a smaller and smaller minority. That's a good thing.

Dying Party - how ridiculous !!! - ... This dying party took back the U.S. House of Representatives in 2010 wresting it from Democrat control and did the same thing in 2014 by taking by the U.S. Senate by a wide margin. And at the state level -- current statistics --

Most all these changes and rise to domination of the states has occurred in the last 1-2-3 years. This surge shows a definite march to change the country -- The Conservative - Moderate Populist uprising is occurring right before your eyes. But those with Tunnel Vision do not see anything outside their Liberal-Leftist-Progressive Tunnel Vision Telescope or that they are looking through the wrong end.

And go take a look at some of the graphs and charts of the states in color ... an education in itself.

2014 Elections

31 Republican-controlled state legislatures

11 Democratic-controlled State legislatures

8 Split State legislatures

__

50 total

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_state_legislatures

The consequences of losing statehouses could last decades[/background]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/11/05/republican-sweep-extends-to-state-level/

Nearly half of Americans will now live in states under total GOP control

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/gop-grabs-30-Governor-seats-highest-party-12/story?id=17650799

GOP Grabs 30 Governor Seats, Highest for Either Party in Over a Decade

30 out of 50 Governors, one Independent and the rest Democrat ...

Edited July 7, 2015 by Scott

[samran]

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

Hey, I'm prone to the cheap one liners....keyboard in mouth disease.

Take your point about the de-facto amnesty. It is a valid one. How to get around though is the issue.

I am perplexed in a genuine way, that if you and your colleagues can't stop this, then who can? I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc.

[JDGRUEN]

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

Hey, I'm prone to the cheap one liners....keyboard in mouth disease.

Take your point about the de-facto amnesty. It is a valid one. How to get around though is the issue.

I am perplexed in a genuine way, that if you and your colleagues can't stop this, then who can? I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc.

" I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc."

By thinking mainly in economic terms when it comes to amnesty or de facto amnesty - especially when granted by Fiat is the rights of the American people to have a real say so about it and our rights in this matter are being shunted. We Americans have a right to insist on the restoration and preservation of our Country's Sovereignty - therefore border control is hardly a trivial matter. And how about the economy of the American citizens' households -- The unemployment statistics used by the U.S. Department of Labor are a deception and have been for years. If one out of despair gives up looking for a job after many years of trying to get a job and does not register to work - that person is not counted in the statistics. In very recent times in America we have had upwards of 92 Million people out of the work force and not counted. And as many as 30% of that number would like to return to the work force. And at the same time we have the President wanting to grant de facto amnesty by fiat using many justifications - one of them being that America needs workers. And that is a very poor joke. What is not said - when so called leaders try to justify their twisted logic ... is that they want workers who will work for lower pay. So - they want to grant amnesty to illegal aliens to get more lower wage workers. All the rest of the emotionally laced lies are just a smoke screen. Elitist Republicans - RINOs want low wage workers for their business and industry supporters and the Democrats want future compliant voters... And in the middle the citizens of America are shunted aside - pushed out of having a real say. Laws have been passed and ignored to secure the border - the current administration completely shelved a multi-billion dollar funding bill to secure the border and squandered the money on actually helping illegal aliens stay in America. The Obama Administration is actively working to help illegal aliens against the will of the American people and is quite callous about it.

[arjunadawn]

Our job was to bring eyes and ears technology to support and direct. Interdiction was always a law enforcement agency (LEA) prerogative. Often its not really a prerogative rather a manning issue. This type of military gear is now widely used by LEAs. Congress has steadfastly crapped the bed on the immigration issue, each side for differing reasons.

Since the now touted betrayal of Reagan regarding his apparent caving in on immigration issues, it is hailed as an example of GOP reaching across the aisles. What is not widely known though clearly in the public record was the avowed word of the democrats he caved to to support other strengthening actions, etc. It is widely know that this president's reluctant support was the result of legislative promises, and betrayals. So, this issue stems from this far back at a minimum.

Apparatchiks, soldiers, cops, etc., are not the problem, the problem is congress and this president. Jeez, this president prints flyers in Spanish and they are distributed around the Americas on how to break US immigration laws, and then offers to fly them from locales south of the border into the US. This is not policy, this is treason. This is at another minimum, a "high crime."

https://www.numbersusa.com/news/border-patrol-agent-testifies-senate-committee-indicated-6-10-aliens-cross-border

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/18473-former-border-patrol-agents-illegal-immigration-crisis-contrived

[samran]

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

Hey, I'm prone to the cheap one liners....keyboard in mouth disease.

Take your point about the de-facto amnesty. It is a valid one. How to get around though is the issue.

I am perplexed in a genuine way, that if you and your colleagues can't stop this, then who can? I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc.

" I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc."

By thinking mainly in economic terms when it comes to amnesty or de facto amnesty - especially when granted by Fiat is the rights of the American people to have a real say so about it and our rights in this matter are being shunted. We Americans have a right to insist on the restoration and preservation of our Country's Sovereignty - therefore border control is hardly a trivial matter. And how about the economy of the American citizens' households -- The unemployment statistics used by the U.S. Department of Labor are a deception and have been for years. If one out of despair gives up looking for a job after many years of trying to get a job and does not register to work - that person is not counted in the statistics. In very recent times in America we have had upwards of 92 Million people out of the work force and not counted. And as many as 30% of that number would like to return to the work force. And at the same time we have the President wanting to grant de facto amnesty by fiat using many justifications - one of them being that America needs workers. And that is a very poor joke. What is not said - when so called leaders try to justify their twisted logic ... is that they want workers who will work for lower pay. So - they want to grant amnesty to illegal aliens to get more lower wage workers. All the rest of the emotionally laced lies are just a smoke screen. Elitist Republicans - RINOs want low wage workers for their business and industry supporters and the Democrats want future compliant voters... And in the middle the citizens of America are shunted aside - pushed out of having a real say. Laws have been passed and ignored to secure the border - the current administration completely shelved a multi-billion dollar funding bill to secure the border and squandered the money on actually helping illegal aliens stay in America. The Obama Administration is actively working to help illegal aliens against the will of the American people and is quite callous about it.

As I've said, politically - if Dems touch immigration they get walloped by the GOP. So it is probably better that they do nothing.

GOP are split on the issue - but on balance it is probably that they do nothing about it and still get away with blaming the democrats for doing nothing.

Economically, I'm going to show you a chart. Way off topic but addresses your point.

Lets i be accused of being some lefty socialist (I'm quite orthodox economically I guess) this is from the Heratige Foundation. Hardly an outpost of socialism.

What do you see, even taking into acount total compensation, salaries haven't kept up with productivity (ie profitability which is going to business owners and shareholders). Well and good to an extent as they are the ones taking the risk and building the businesses (nb. I run my own businsess), but if you want to see what is really squeezing middle america, it is those numbers below.

Profits, I'd argue, should be spead and shared somewhat more. Afterall, it is the workers who are helping to produce that productivity and wealth. They should be in recepit of more of it.

How more is a philisophical debate I guess. But I'd argue the values in the good old days that many on right hark back to should include a fairer distribution of wealth. You used to do it. But then some radicals came along and even defined that as the dreaded 'S' word (socialism). It isn't. It is common sense you pay your workers fairly. But the American right have lost sense of that. They arent even 'right' any more. They are something different. But mainly, angry and radicalised.

It is easy to blame immigrants. I mean, which politican doesn't like to knock the foreigner (the left will knock offshoring, the right will knock those who have arrived)...?

But if you ask me, the real culprit is that graph.

Edited July 7, 2015 by samran

[h90]

Normally after George W, it should be impossible that anyone from the Bush clan get elected for anything for the next 100 years.....

That Americans elected George W and Obama for a second term and even consider another Bush is very scary.

[arjunadawn]

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

Hey, I'm prone to the cheap one liners....keyboard in mouth disease.

Take your point about the de-facto amnesty. It is a valid one. How to get around though is the issue.

I am perplexed in a genuine way, that if you and your colleagues can't stop this, then who can? I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc.

" I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc."

By thinking mainly in economic terms when it comes to amnesty or de facto amnesty - especially when granted by Fiat is the rights of the American people to have a real say so about it and our rights in this matter are being shunted. We Americans have a right to insist on the restoration and preservation of our Country's Sovereignty - therefore border control is hardly a trivial matter. And how about the economy of the American citizens' households -- The unemployment statistics used by the U.S. Department of Labor are a deception and have been for years. If one out of despair gives up looking for a job after many years of trying to get a job and does not register to work - that person is not counted in the statistics. In very recent times in America we have had upwards of 92 Million people out of the work force and not counted. And as many as 30% of that number would like to return to the work force. And at the same time we have the President wanting to grant de facto amnesty by fiat using many justifications - one of them being that America needs workers. And that is a very poor joke. What is not said - when so called leaders try to justify their twisted logic ... is that they want workers who will work for lower pay. So - they want to grant amnesty to illegal aliens to get more lower wage workers. All the rest of the emotionally laced lies are just a smoke screen. Elitist Republicans - RINOs want low wage workers for their business and industry supporters and the Democrats want future compliant voters... And in the middle the citizens of America are shunted aside - pushed out of having a real say. Laws have been passed and ignored to secure the border - the current administration completely shelved a multi-billion dollar funding bill to secure the border and squandered the money on actually helping illegal aliens stay in America. The Obama Administration is actively working to help illegal aliens against the will of the American people and is quite callous about it.

As I've said, politically - if Dems touch immigration they get walloped by the GOP. So it is probably better that they do nothing.

GOP are split on the issue - but on balance it is probably that they do nothing about it and still get away with blaming the democrats for doing nothing.

Economically, I'm going to show you a chart. Way off topic but addresses your point.

Lets i be accused of being some lefty socialist (I'm quite orthodox economically I guess) this is from the Heratige Foundation. Hardly an outpost of socialism.

What do you see, even taking into acount total compensation, salaries haven't kept up with productivity (ie profitability which is going to business owners and shareholders). Well and good to an extent as they are the ones taking the risk and building the businesses (nb. I run my own businsess), but if you want to see what is really squeezing middle america, it is those numbers below.

Profits, I'd argue, should be spead and shared somewhat more. Afterall, it is the workers who are helping to produce that productivity and wealth. They should be in recepit of more of it.

How more is a philisophical debate I guess. But I'd argue the values in the good old days that many on right hark back to should include a fairer distribution of wealth. You used to do it. But then some radicals came along and even defined that as the dreaded 'S' word (socialism). It isn't. It is common sense you pay your workers fairly. But the American right have lost sense of that. They arent even 'right' any more. They are something different. But mainly, angry and radicalised.

It is easy to blame immigrants. I mean, which politican doesn't like to knock the foreigner (the left will knock offshoring, the right will knock those who have arrived)...?

But if you ask me, the real culprit is that graph.

Previous post edited for space.

I think it would be a weak argument to accuse you of being a lefty socialist; by definition they yield no common ground. Agree or not, you evidence a back and forth, and it is refreshing on TV. I disagree both regarding dems and GOP. Dems actually see illegals as a winning argument. To what extend the compromise center dems it can be reasoned they begin to address this loss with new voters. Dems will work this issue. GOP are among the lowest scum imaginable. Whereas I see liberal polices as anathema to the US way of life at least they have the courage and conviction to assert a vision, aim for it, and make incremental progress toward that end. GOP, on the other hand, looks back, recalls an idyllic age, panders to the memory, losing both the present and the future because while the dems progressively increment forward it is not mutually exclusive- GOP progressively increments backward, toward... nothing at all. The GOP demonstrates no pattern of manhood commensurate with their calls for traditional America, Emersonesque Self-Reliance, and moral imperative. The GOP caves on every issue while the dems steadfastly inflict their will upon a paralyzed America.

The polls are unambiguous, the majority of all Americans are against the current state of immigration affairs and see this as among the greatest issues confronting the country. Obama could hardly be said to be representing the will of Americans; indeed, only a foolish person would think so, or the typical low information voter. Profits should be "spread and shared"- is the same exact thing as Obama asserting Americans should spread the wealth around. The problem with this is it is fundamentally American to have government inflict their interpretation of wealth upon Americans as a policy of vox populi or stalking policy.

If one wants to change the country, change the country. When government enacts such polices it does so not from moral high-ground but from government coercion. This is a fundamentally Marxist philosophy dressed up for a new age, and a dumber population. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. This is the problem with Democracy and this is why the framers despised the notion. With Democracy the majority can inflict their will upon the minority. With proper constitutional government passing fads and vox populi cannot so easily wrought their will upon others. Dumbing down Americans to believe they live in a Democracy has the government effectively acting as if it is one, and all manners of horrors are now inflicted.

Nationalism has always built itself upon both love and hate. Us and them are ancient mechanics necessarily related to the us. Yet this is not such an academic observation; there are numerous palpable dangers regarding this current issue. People are hurting. It is an effective invasion, regardless of us government complicity. This is an intentional dilution of the US way of life. It is nothing less than an assault on America. It does not matter whether illegals mean to do this or not. The problem is now much greater than the sum of the countless individual stories that appeal to emotional responses from Americans. Now Americans are hemorraghing and they are getting sick and tired of bleeding.

[JDGRUEN]

Normally after George W, it should be impossible that anyone from the Bush clan get elected for anything for the next 100 years.....

That Americans elected George W and Obama for a second term and even consider another Bush is very scary.

I agree with you about the possibility of Jeb Bush getting elected ... he and is name will be excoriated by the Leftist machine that now runs the Democrat Party... months before the presidential election the Left will be so vociferous in their screeching about the BUSH monster who will eat babies on main street, hates blacks, starts wars, ad naseum and the low information Democrat will think that GW Bush the Devil Incarnate is running for President again..

[stevenl]

Normally after George W, it should be impossible that anyone from the Bush clan get elected for anything for the next 100 years.....

That Americans elected George W and Obama for a second term and even consider another Bush is very scary.

I agree with you about the possibility of Jeb Bush getting elected ... he and is name will be excoriated by the Leftist machine that now runs the Democrat Party... months before the presidential election the Left will be so vociferous in their screeching about the BUSH monster who will eat babies on main street, hates blacks, starts wars, ad naseum and the low information Democrat will think that GW Bush the Devil Incarnate is running for President again..

If the Democratic party were run by the left there is no way HRC would be the frontrunner.

[Ulysses G.]

Au contraire. They just want win, just like the republicans. They will support anyone in their party that can win.

[samran]

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

Hey, I'm prone to the cheap one liners....keyboard in mouth disease.

Take your point about the de-facto amnesty. It is a valid one. How to get around though is the issue.

I am perplexed in a genuine way, that if you and your colleagues can't stop this, then who can? I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc.

" I'm an economist so I tend to reach for economically rational solutions, like more pragmatic work rights etc."

By thinking mainly in economic terms when it comes to amnesty or de facto amnesty - especially when granted by Fiat is the rights of the American people to have a real say so about it and our rights in this matter are being shunted. We Americans have a right to insist on the restoration and preservation of our Country's Sovereignty - therefore border control is hardly a trivial matter. And how about the economy of the American citizens' households -- The unemployment statistics used by the U.S. Department of Labor are a deception and have been for years. If one out of despair gives up looking for a job after many years of trying to get a job and does not register to work - that person is not counted in the statistics. In very recent times in America we have had upwards of 92 Million people out of the work force and not counted. And as many as 30% of that number would like to return to the work force. And at the same time we have the President wanting to grant de facto amnesty by fiat using many justifications - one of them being that America needs workers. And that is a very poor joke. What is not said - when so called leaders try to justify their twisted logic ... is that they want workers who will work for lower pay. So - they want to grant amnesty to illegal aliens to get more lower wage workers. All the rest of the emotionally laced lies are just a smoke screen. Elitist Republicans - RINOs want low wage workers for their business and industry supporters and the Democrats want future compliant voters... And in the middle the citizens of America are shunted aside - pushed out of having a real say. Laws have been passed and ignored to secure the border - the current administration completely shelved a multi-billion dollar funding bill to secure the border and squandered the money on actually helping illegal aliens stay in America. The Obama Administration is actively working to help illegal aliens against the will of the American people and is quite callous about it.

As I've said, politically - if Dems touch immigration they get walloped by the GOP. So it is probably better that they do nothing.
GOP are split on the issue - but on balance it is probably that they do nothing about it and still get away with blaming the democrats for doing nothing.
Economically, I'm going to show you a chart. Way off topic but addresses your point.

Lets i be accused of being some lefty socialist (I'm quite orthodox economically I guess) this is from the Heratige Foundation. Hardly an outpost of socialism.
What do you see, even taking into acount total compensation, salaries haven't kept up with productivity (ie profitability which is going to business owners and shareholders). Well and good to an extent as they are the ones taking the risk and building the businesses (nb. I run my own businsess), but if you want to see what is really squeezing middle america, it is those numbers below.

Profits, I'd argue, should be spead and shared somewhat more. Afterall, it is the workers who are helping to produce that productivity and wealth. They should be in recepit of more of it.
How more is a philisophical debate I guess. But I'd argue the values in the good old days that many on right hark back to should include a fairer distribution of wealth. You used to do it. But then some radicals came along and even defined that as the dreaded 'S' word (socialism). It isn't. It is common sense you pay your workers fairly. But the American right have lost sense of that. They arent even 'right' any more. They are something different. But mainly, angry and radicalised.

It is easy to blame immigrants. I mean, which politican doesn't like to knock the foreigner (the left will knock offshoring, the right will knock those who have arrived)...?
But if you ask me, the real culprit is that graph.

Previous post edited for space.

I think it would be a weak argument to accuse you of being a lefty socialist; by definition they yield no common ground. Agree or not, you evidence a back and forth, and it is refreshing on TV. I disagree both regarding dems and GOP. Dems actually see illegals as a winning argument. To what extend the compromise center dems it can be reasoned they begin to address this loss with new voters. Dems will work this issue. GOP are among the lowest scum imaginable. Whereas I see liberal polices as anathema to the US way of life at least they have the courage and conviction to assert a vision, aim for it, and make incremental progress toward that end. GOP, on the other hand, looks back, recalls an idyllic age, panders to the memory, losing both the present and the future because while the dems progressively increment forward it is not mutually exclusive- GOP progressively increments backward, toward... nothing at all. The GOP demonstrates no pattern of manhood commensurate with their calls for traditional America, Emersonesque Self-Reliance, and moral imperative. The GOP caves on every issue while the dems steadfastly inflict their will upon a paralyzed America.

The polls are unambiguous, the majority of all Americans are against the current state of immigration affairs and see this as among the greatest issues confronting the country. Obama could hardly be said to be representing the will of Americans; indeed, only a foolish person would think so, or the typical low information voter. Profits should be "spread and shared"- is the same exact thing as Obama asserting Americans should spread the wealth around. The problem with this is it is fundamentally American to have government inflict their interpretation of wealth upon Americans as a policy of vox populi or stalking policy.

If one wants to change the country, change the country. When government enacts such polices it does so not from moral high-ground but from government coercion. This is a fundamentally Marxist philosophy dressed up for a new age, and a dumber population. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. This is the problem with Democracy and this is why the framers despised the notion. With Democracy the majority can inflict their will upon the minority. With proper constitutional government passing fads and vox populi cannot so easily wrought their will upon others. Dumbing down Americans to believe they live in a Democracy has the government effectively acting as if it is one, and all manners of horrors are now inflicted.

Nationalism has always built itself upon both love and hate. Us and them are ancient mechanics necessarily related to the us. Yet this is not such an academic observation; there are numerous palpable dangers regarding this current issue. People are hurting. It is an effective invasion, regardless of us government complicity. This is an intentional dilution of the US way of life. It is nothing less than an assault on America. It does not matter whether illegals mean to do this or not. The problem is now much greater than the sum of the countless individual stories that appeal to emotional responses from Americans. Now Americans are hemorraghing and they are getting sick and tired of bleeding.

Long post and am flat out at work. Just a note, I wasn't necessarily taking about taxation as a way to spead the wealth.

Could be anything from a higher minimum wage to having firms think twice about listing on stock exchanges lest their focus becomes overly centred on quarterly results (ie minimise costs and thus pushing down wages as a result ) just to keep the analysts happy.

Whatever it is, when you have a gap like that between productivity and compensation, the Middle class is squeezed.

[samuibeachcomber]

Everyone is making a major production out of what Trump said, but in reality, there are a hell of a lot of people who agree with his comments.

yes and the americans are crazy enough to vote him in.Ronald reagan got voted in cos everyone was fed up with carter who appeared to be weak and vascillating.OK he had experience as governor of California and trump is an experienced businessman with a big mouth and an even bigger ego but americans like strong talking dudes so maybe just maybe he could get the nod,stranger things have come true!

[samuibeachcomber]

Normally after George W, it should be impossible that anyone from the Bush clan get elected for anything for the next 100 years.....

That Americans elected George W and Obama for a second term and even consider another Bush is very scary.

Just my take but i think jeb bush and hilary clinton are yesterday's people.

[samran]

Everyone is making a major production out of what Trump said, but in reality, there are a hell of a lot of people who agree with his comments.

yes and the americans are crazy enough to vote him in.Ronald reagan got voted in cos everyone was fed up with carter who appeared to be weak and vascillating.OK he had experience as governor of California and trump is an experienced businessman with a big mouth and an even bigger ego but americans like strong talking dudes so maybe just maybe he could get the nod,stranger things have come true!

Two words: Regan Democrats

The understanding that to win you have to appeal to the other side of the aisle.

Something that is clearly lost in this mob.

[Pinot]

Everyone is making a major production out of what Trump said, but in reality, there are a hell of a lot of people who agree with his comments.

That illegal immigrants are rapists? All of them, or just some? Trump didn't specify, so it was a generalisation, and a nasty sweeping one at that.

What Trump said was basically true, but I don't like the way he said it. There is no getting around the fact that some Mexicans are bringing drugs and crime to the US and that some are rapists, but saying that "some are good people", makes it sound like they are the minority and I'm pretty sure that is not correct.

"[Mexico] are sending people that have lots of problems, and they are bringing those problems to us. They are bringing drugs, and bringing crime, and their rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

-Donald Trump

Basically true? Yeah, I like what he said, but I don't like the way he said it.

Racism is a core republican value. Of course there are a lot of people who agree with Trump. They're white, old and ignorant...the Republican base.

[Ulysses G.]

Have you read the news in the last few days? Illegals committing crime and murders. There is nothing "racist" about reporting facts.

[Berkshire]

Have you read the news in the last few days? Illegals committing crime and murders. There is nothing "racist" about reporting facts.

Correct. But it doesn't mean all 50 million Hispanics in America are criminals. Which is what Trump implies every time he opens his mouth. (for all you right-wing guys, please note the word "implies")

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think that is what he is implying at all. His problem is with ILLEGAL immigrants and he does admit that many are not breaking the law - other than being in the US without permission. I don't think he is a racist. He just wants the laws to apply to everyone.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[ggold]

For the public Bush is offended. In private he probably thinks the same as what Trump has said!

[Credo]

I don't think that is what he is implying at all. His problem is with ILLEGAL immigrants and he does admit that many are not breaking the law - other than being in the US without permission. I don't think he is a racist. He just wants the laws to apply to everyone.

I don't remember his exact words but I think he qualified his negativity with something to the effect that 'some are probably' ok. It doesn't lead one to believe that there is a lot, particularly after a list of criminal offenses is stated.

The Republicans have a good talking point on the issue of immigration and in particular, illegal immigration, but Trumps remarks move it away from a reasonable topic and into a racist rant.

[pedro01]

Everyone is making a major production out of what Trump said, but in reality, there are a hell of a lot of people who agree with his comments.

That illegal immigrants are rapists? All of them, or just some? Trump didn't specify, so it was a generalisation, and a nasty sweeping one at that.

How can you comment without watching the speech.

He said that we are not getting the best of Mexico thru illegal immigration. That we are getting a lot if people escaping problems. We are getting drugs and criminals and possibly even islamic terrorists. We dont know because the border is porous. He said that there's good people too but that the border needs to be protected.

Mexico is a mess. Drug lords run huge areas of the country. It is a very dangerous place with very dangerous people.

So can we drop the line that all border jumpers are Mary Poppins?

Edited July 8, 2015 by pedro01

[Pinot]

Have you read the news in the last few days? Illegals committing crime and murders. There is nothing "racist" about reporting facts.

Fox News selected facts.

Again, these are "the facts" teapublicans use to justify their racism, a core value of the GOP platform.

[Ulysses G.]

Why don't you try coming up with some new material? Throwing Fox News into every single post is moronic, besides being entirely incorrect. All of the major news outlets are reporting about Illegals committing crimes, because of Donald Trump's comments.

The New York Times.

San Francisco Murder Case Exposes Lapses in Immigration Enforcement

By JULIA PRESTONJULY 7, 2015

The case of a Mexican laborer with a lengthy criminal record who was charged on Tuesday in the fatal shooting of an American woman on a pier in San Francisco has exposed a gulf of mistrust and failed communication between the federal authorities and the police in California over immigration enforcement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/san-francisco-murder-case-exposes-lapses-in-immigration-enforcement.html?_r=0

Edited July 9, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Pinot]

Come on, Fox is bending over backwards to try and justify Trump's racist rant. They have to. It's in the DNA of Fox News where all the teabaggers get their marching orders. Yes, illegals do commit crimes and Donald Trump is full of shit. Let's get the facts straight:

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people born in the United States. A 2013 Pew Research Center study found that across all people aged 12 to 24 (the teen and young adult years when almost all criminal activity first begins) immigrants were much less likely than the U.S.-born to have committed a crime in the last year.

The 2000 census shows that in all racial categories, immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than their U.S.-born counterparts. Men born in Mexico had an incarceration rate five times lower than the U.S.-born population as a whole.

In California, home to the nation’s largest Mexican immigrant population (and the largest population of immigrants overall), a 2008 study by the Public Policy Institute of California found that the incarceration rate for immigrant adults was 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared to 813 per 100,000 among U.S.-born adults. Immigrants were less than half as likely to be incarcerated for drug crimes.

If immigrants were disproportionately likely to commit crimes, we would expect to see higher crime rates when and where immigrants arrive. Yet the opposite holds true. From 1994 to 2007, the number of immigrants per capita living in the United States rose from about 9 to 13 percent of the population. At the same time, FBI reports show that the rate of violent crime declined 34.2 percent. The property crime rate fell 26.4 percent.

Teabaggers are going to look for reports of illegals committing crimes to back up their ridiculous claims of rapists and murdering boogy men coming the border to kill you in your bed. It's the oh so typical Republican crap, trying to scare the electorate into voting for them.

Defending Trump's disgusting racist comments is pathetic.

[lifeincnx]

Trump is telling the truth.The poll shows he's moved up.but NBC,cbs,abc trying to put him down.As far as Bush he wants all

Mexicans to live in The U.S. The average American don't want Mexicans in America.Theres 15 million n the U.S. As it is.

California is going bankrupt because of them.The prisons are full of Mexicans.

If I didn't know better I would have thought this was a post from The Onion.

[chuckd]

Come on, Fox is bending over backwards to try and justify Trump's racist rant. They have to. It's in the DNA of Fox News where all the teabaggers get their marching orders. Yes, illegals do commit crimes and Donald Trump is full of shit. Let's get the facts straight:

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people born in the United States. A 2013 Pew Research Center study found that across all people aged 12 to 24 (the teen and young adult years when almost all criminal activity first begins) immigrants were much less likely than the U.S.-born to have committed a crime in the last year.

The 2000 census shows that in all racial categories, immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than their U.S.-born counterparts. Men born in Mexico had an incarceration rate five times lower than the U.S.-born population as a whole.

In California, home to the nation’s largest Mexican immigrant population (and the largest population of immigrants overall), a 2008 study by the Public Policy Institute of California found that the incarceration rate for immigrant adults was 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared to 813 per 100,000 among U.S.-born adults. Immigrants were less than half as likely to be incarcerated for drug crimes.

If immigrants were disproportionately likely to commit crimes, we would expect to see higher crime rates when and where immigrants arrive. Yet the opposite holds true. From 1994 to 2007, the number of immigrants per capita living in the United States rose from about 9 to 13 percent of the population. At the same time, FBI reports show that the rate of violent crime declined 34.2 percent. The property crime rate fell 26.4 percent.

Teabaggers are going to look for reports of illegals committing crimes to back up their ridiculous claims of rapists and murdering boogy men coming the border to kill you in your bed. It's the oh so typical Republican crap, trying to scare the electorate into voting for them.

Defending Trump's disgusting racist comments is pathetic.

Your quoted post has a total of seven paragraphs.

Four of these paragraphs are lifted word for word from the following unattributed source:

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/07/this_proves_donald_trump_is_lying_here_are_the_actual_facts_on_immigrants_and_crime/

Your first paragraph and the last two appear to be your own words.

What amazes me is you blame Fox News on a constant basis yet have the nerve to cite Salon as a source of information.

I guess it makes no difference if you do not choose to cite your sources anyway but trying to pass another persons work off as your own is frowned upon in most places.

[JDGRUEN]

Trump is telling the truth.The poll shows he's moved up.but NBC,cbs,abc trying to put him down.As far as Bush he wants all

Mexicans to live in The U.S. The average American don't want Mexicans in America.Theres 15 million n the U.S. As it is.

California is going bankrupt because of them.The prisons are full of Mexicans.

If I didn't know better I would have thought this was a post from The Onion.

Many millions of Americans agree with 'thrilled' ... but you wouldn't know that because you exist in a Lib-Lefty-Prog tunnel vision world.. Where you only know what is reported in Salon.com with talking points from media matters all wrapped up with a heavy dose of MSNBC... You listen to, watch or read only what you already believe ....

[JDGRUEN]

I don't think that is what he is implying at all. His problem is with ILLEGAL immigrants and he does admit that many are not breaking the law - other than being in the US without permission. I don't think he is a racist. He just wants the laws to apply to everyone.

I don't remember his exact words but I think he qualified his negativity with something to the effect that 'some are probably' ok. It doesn't lead one to believe that there is a lot, particularly after a list of criminal offenses is stated.

The Republicans have a good talking point on the issue of immigration and in particular, illegal immigration, but Trumps remarks move it away from a reasonable topic and into a racist rant.

The vast majority of people who find racism in Trump's statements are those who live and breath Political Correctness in their lives - a.k.a. Lib-Lefty-Progs... The rest of the American population sees what Trump said as pragmatic statements about the range of bad elements statistically found in the Illegal Alien population that illegally crosses the U.S. Border or over stays a visa. Internet news sources are littered with stories of crimes that have been committed by illegal aliens in America for the last 15 and more years. There is no statistical doubt that illegal aliens commit more serious crimes in America per capita than average America citizens do. Donald Trump is just not hindered by the Societal Censorship of Political Correctness.

[Ulysses G.]

Your quoted post has a total of seven paragraphs.

Four of these paragraphs are lifted word for word from the following unattributed source:

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/07/this_proves_donald_trump_is_lying_here_are_the_actual_facts_on_immigrants_and_crime/

Your first paragraph and the last two appear to be your own words.

What amazes me is you blame Fox News on a constant basis yet have the nerve to cite Salon as a source of information.

I guess it makes no difference if you do not choose to cite your sources anyway but trying to pass another persons work off as your own is frowned upon in most places.

It is no surprise that he is a Salon reader and so obsessed with Fox News. Salon is

just Fox News coming from the opposite direction. I can see why he does not want to admit that is where he steals his content though.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Pinot]

So the problem isn't with the fact that Trump and the Republican party are liars and racists, it's not quoting a source I used. The "kill the messenger" approach by the TV baggers.

You guys are pulling out all the stops. I suppose when you ain't got nothing...well, nothing but a clown bus full of worthless candidates.

It's great to see "The Donald" as the posterboy for the racist Republican party. Let's see how long you can ride that wave before you're forced back behind the Bush juggernaut. Americans should work more? That's a winning slogan, if I've ever heard one.

Now come on, how many you have Fox News on right now as you read this? Be honest. How many of you never turn it off?