Father faces deportation to Thailand after 27 years in Britain for two 'stupid crimes'

[Thaidream]

If you all shall remember- just about a year ago- a very long time resident of Thailand still holding his Indian citizenship and having permanent residency was being prosecuted for having taken the stage with Khun Suthep in opposition to the Yingluck government. He was in the process of being stripped of his PR and deported back to India after having been in business in Thailand for almost 50 years. This definitely made the papers and many people in Thailand were very upset about it. Luckily, for him, a new government came into being and the case was dismissed. And I agree completely that the Englishman should not have had to leave his family and unfortunately nothing was said or done to help him.

There are many cases in both Thailand, the US and the UK where the law is not applied appropriately. I never like to hear about families being separated know several people in the US married to other nationalities who have a very hard time getting their family members into the United States. The process is bureaucratic, lengthy and expensive. I wish there was some way for people who have issues like this to get some advocacy. Here in Thailand, there is none. You are basically on your own, unless well healed or connected.

[connda]

As an American and having lived in California a long time, I have seen much the same thing happen there. People who commit minor crimes ( sentence of 12 months or less) and have lived their whole lives in America , have children and lived a relatively good and decent life except a few misdeeds are deported back to their country of birth to a system and language they are completely incapable of handling. Normally, what happens is they then appeal to attempt to return to the United State but the appeal takes so long they eventually lose the rights to their minor children as they can't support them and the State puts the children in a foster home, supported by the taxpayer. I am not familiar with English law but it sure sounds similar to what happens in America. The politicians beat their chests saying look at how tough we are on immigration but in essence these kind of laws obscure the fact that those with an agenda or a politically correct affinity find ways to skirt the law while the others such as this man do not have the means or connections to fight back wil be sent back to a country he does not know. This is not due process. I grew believing that English law was fair and sacrosanct and American law must be the same as it is based on English common law. Where is the fairness in this situation? How does it serve the British people or American people to use these kind of draconian laws to exile people and break up families. Please don't confuse our situation in Thailand as expats with little rights to what we as Englishmen or Americans know or should know is fairness and equality. Many of our forefathers died for it.

But it's OK for Thailand to exile people and break up families under the same circumstances.

To progressive liberals it seems to be just fine to:

Talk about Western immigration laws and it's "Oh how heartless the government is."

Talk about Thai immigration laws and its <silence.........shhhhh...........not a word............>

For example, if I go start a business right now to support my Thai family, and get caught, it's a criminal offense which will lead to deportation. Working and conducting a business without the proper authorization. That is a criminal act. Jail time, fine, and deportation. Would there be 7 pages on Thai Visa by liberals crying about the callousness of the Thai government, racism, and the break-up of my family? What do you think? Do you think my story would be plastered on the front of one of the major expat newspapers deploring the break-up of my family and the human rights issues. What do you think?

Non-US person goes to the US, works without a Green Card, then get deported, its all over the news, soooo tragic, breaking up families, human-rights violation not to allow everyone who wants to work the right to work, blah, blah, blah. Exactly the same. Same crimes (working without authorization), same punishment (deportation), but completely different reaction from liberals.

I'll keep repeating it: Hypocrisy. The 'one-way' thinking is Hypocrisy. Perhaps that word doesn't exist in the dictionaries used in centrally planned, liberally oriented public schools in the West. It wouldn't surprise me.

Hardly the same thing. If you were in Thailand since you were six, only spoke Thai, were married and had a Thai

child, then were caught running a business, arrested, jailed, deported. Then yes I would expect your story to be

on the front cover of an ex-pat web site. But coming to Thailand as a 50 year old, having a child with someone

half your age, opening and running a business that you know is illegal for you to do. I would not expect too much

sympathy.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I understand your point, but disagree with it. Your OK with double-standards and moral relativism. I'm not.

...and your OK with using baseless stereotypes, such as my wife being half my age. Heck, that makes me about 115 years old. Not even close. But the use of double-standards, moral relativism and stereotypical thinking places you in an interesting group of individuals, most of whom I tend to disagree with. So it's nothing personal.

Edited July 6, 2015 by connda

[Prbkk]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

[Soutpeel]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

sponsor him and his family to move to Thailand then, give him job... be a good citizen

[h90]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

he had another chance...he did 2!!! crimes.

[h90]

There should be more character testing of men that want to take Thai women ( any woman for that matter ) to live in the UK.

Testing the English men, or the Thai women.

Because I'm thinking a lot of the women were probably prostitutes, and therefore 'undesirables'.

prostitutes at least work for the money and don't steal.....When you look at the average British woman it would be very good for the gene pool to mix some Thais in...

All the hookers I know are also into drinking, drugs and gambling.

You may know some that don't steal ....... but given the chance, I'm sure they would.

You should fine-tune your sarcasto-meter, at least at the second sentence is should have alert you :-)

But without the lo-so jokes, really I would rank a prostitute higher than a thug an thief. While not the most elegant business, it is two grown people agree to something, no assault and no stealing. Of course you won't find the highest moral standards at hookers but still better than a thug and thief. In many countries legal, while I don't know any country where stealing (the private one the state one is called tax) or assault is legal.

[Thaidream]

The relative age of one spouse to another has no bearing on this or any argument and is indeed stereotyping. I have complete sympathy for anyone who comes to Thailand, marries and tries to start a small business and because of laws that are made to exclude-they are then deported. The goal posts change often and all most people want to do is make a living and live a peaceful, decent life. I try and avoid characterising anyone's personal circumstance that is different from mine as wrong. While we can always disagree on this issue or others, I do know the World and its people have become more harsh and uncaring over my lifetime. And this is the case no matter where you are, Thailand, the USA and the UK. I think part of it is the loss of hope and the thought that while there are governments and official entities that should care about service to us, the people- they only care about enriching themselves at our expense. I hear office ials and others continually quoting this law or that law- it never applies to them- only to us. I shall leave it at that.

[h90]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

sponsor him and his family to move to Thailand then, give him job... be a good citizen

We in Austria would also have a few more foreign people with bad childhood which we would like to get rid of...we would be very grateful if he takes a few

[halloween]

A permanent resident is still a guest, albeit long term. That's the trouble with long term guests, they start acting like they own the place, then whine when their actions revoke their welcome.

[duanebigsby]

How will he suffer? He can teach English!

With a Lancashire accent ... poor students.

...and with a Thai passport....he'll probably only pull in around 18,000 a month. Same as Filipinos.

18000 is a good salary.....lot of Thai people who aren't criminals earn less

Not for someone used to living in The West.

[Bluespunk]

@Alwyn

You said:

Things have changed BP. Drummer Rigby beheaded a year or so ago, in South London.. People like Anjem Choudary taking to the streets etc Not to mention the likes of Abu Hamza....

Me:

You judge people on their actions.

You do not judge them on their faith.

Plenty of nutters in the uk.

Of all creeds.

I'm all for deporting those who commit crime in a country that is not theirs. I believe this case to be wrong though because of this man's circumstances.

Deportation should be based upon circumstances and the nature of the crime.

Not faith.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bluespunk

[sangtip2]

Assault and grand theft are serious crimes. Think about it. Any foreigner here without the correct work permit can be and often are jailed, fined and deported for nothing more than sitting behind their own bar and collecting money for beer sold. I don't feel sorry for him. He had a good job and a good life and threw it all away.

[cookee68]

He will not go anywhere, its is a rule to do this on every person of non British citizenship, did the same to a friend of mine from Malta, but when they know the full circumstances and that they have family and residency it goes no where and the application to deport him will not be successful , it is just a policy that makes it look good, but hay, if the boot was on the other foot and it was in Thailand, well you know where you would be going back to,

[Alwyn]

@Alwyn

You said:

Things have changed BP. Drummer Rigby beheaded a year or so ago, in South London.. People like Anjem Choudary taking to the streets etc Not to mention the likes of Abu Hamza....

Me:

You judge people on their actions.

You do not judge them on their faith.

Plenty of nutters in the uk.

Of all creeds.

I'm all for deporting those who commit crime in a country that is not theirs. I believe this case to be wrong though because of this man's circumstances.

Deportation should be based upon circumstances and the nature of the crime.

Not faith.

We're in total agreement on this chap. As for judging people on their actions and not on their beliefs? When it's their beliefs that motivate their actions how can you not judge their beliefs too? I've read the Koran and there is so much in there that nauseates me it's untrue so I do kind of judge them on their beliefs because of that too

[Bluespunk]

@Alwyn

You said:

Things have changed BP. Drummer Rigby beheaded a year or so ago, in South London.. People like Anjem Choudary taking to the streets etc Not to mention the likes of Abu Hamza....

Me:

You judge people on their actions.

You do not judge them on their faith.

Plenty of nutters in the uk.

Of all creeds.

I'm all for deporting those who commit crime in a country that is not theirs. I believe this case to be wrong though because of this man's circumstances.

Deportation should be based upon circumstances and the nature of the crime.

Not faith.

We're in total agreement on this chap. As for judging people on their actions and not on their beliefs? When it's their beliefs that motivate their actions how can you not judge their beliefs too? I've read the Koran and there is so much in there that nauseates me it's untrue so I do kind of judge them on their beliefs because of that too

I judge the individual on their individual actions.

I would never judge a person on their faith.

All religions have their bigots.

Bigots are motivated by hate, not faith.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bluespunk

[phrodan]

There should be more character testing of men that want to take Thai women ( any woman for that matter ) to live in the UK.

Testing the English men, or the Thai women.

Because I'm thinking a lot of the women were probably prostitutes, and therefore 'undesirables'.

prostitutes at least work for the money and don't steal.....When you look at the average British woman it would be very good for the gene pool to mix some Thais in...

I pity you're experience with British women.

Something tells me British women pity their experience with you.

Edited July 6, 2015 by phrodan

[endure]

Shows that Britain is still ruled by the same bs mentality that transported poor citizens across the world while the wealthy plundered their way through the rest of the world. And what's amazing is seeing people on Thai visa condone it Unbelievable ! His crimes weren't that bloody serious. Brits bash and rob each other every day of the week <deleted> ! It's part of the culture ! Wake up you Brit butt lickers you are ruled and played like pawns by Etonites and they would toss you to the lions too without a second thought. Stand up for what is right for once !

His crimes weren't serious? Hello? Violent physical harm and theft is indeed serious.

In the UK you don't even need to hit someone to be guilty of assault so your blather about violent crimes only exists in your head

"Both in the common law and under statute, the actus reus of a common assault is committed when one person causes another to apprehend or fear that force is about to be used to cause some degree of personal contact and possible injury"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_assault

[Yunla]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

he had another chance...he did 2!!! crimes.

I think that committing two or three crimes in his life, while obviously wrong, doesn't make him a criminal. Real criminals commit two or three crimes before breakfast.

I think he should be punished for those few crimes he committed, and then he is free, and those crimes should not be used like they were in the OP. It would be different if his crimes were extremely serious, or he was a real full-time criminal.

On the residency issue, he most likely didn't think about it. When you start out living under your parents' citizenship, and are told that you are free to stay, then your family disintegrates and you are left in the social-services care system, there are not many of your new peers that will be talking about your residency rights.

And that leads on to the documented fact that good parenting often prevents kids from engaging in crime, as opposed to being raised in the social-services environment, which is full of petty crime and lacks positive guidance figures. In that context, committing only two crimes is actually quite impressive.

[rubl]

A permanent resident is still a guest, albeit long term. That's the trouble with long term guests, they start acting like they own the place, then whine when their actions revoke their welcome.

Just for a moment I thought you were talking about some of our esteemed TVF members

[Jimbolai]

This is wrong on so many levels ... and another reason I detest the UK.

His crimes were no different from 1,000's of others that Britons commit on a daily basis, so jail him ... or fine him ... but he hasn't killed anyone, and doesn't deserve to be deported, especially as he is the father OF a British child, that will (now, presumably) lose his father.

Tatsujin, you have it right. Surely the British kid has the right to have a father.

Only thing Clinton had right years ago. Children's rights must be considered before deporting parents.

No, I am not a bleeding heart liberal.

[h90]

How will he suffer? He can teach English!

With a Lancashire accent ... poor students.

...and with a Thai passport....he'll probably only pull in around 18,000 a month. Same as Filipinos.

18000 is a good salary.....lot of Thai people who aren't criminals earn less

Not for someone used to living in The West.

Well he could additional steal some money like he did in the west

[Lekong]

How will he suffer? He can teach English!

How can he teach English? He doesn't have a degree in English language. Or you want to change the law here? He studied catering.

[h90]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

he had another chance...he did 2!!! crimes.

I think that committing two or three crimes in his life, while obviously wrong, doesn't make him a criminal. Real criminals commit two or three crimes before breakfast.

I think he should be punished for those few crimes he committed, and then he is free, and those crimes should not be used like they were in the OP. It would be different if his crimes were extremely serious, or he was a real full-time criminal.

On the residency issue, he most likely didn't think about it. When you start out living under your parents' citizenship, and are told that you are free to stay, then your family disintegrates and you are left in the social-services care system, there are not many of your new peers that will be talking about your residency rights.

And that leads on to the documented fact that good parenting often prevents kids from engaging in crime, as opposed to being raised in the social-services environment, which is full of petty crime and lacks positive guidance figures. In that context, committing only two crimes is actually quite impressive.

I would like to know if you think the same "yeah it is OK...." if someone steals the money from you (and you don't get it back.

[Soutpeel]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

he had another chance...he did 2!!! crimes.

I think that committing two or three crimes in his life, while obviously wrong, doesn't make him a criminal. Real criminals commit two or three crimes before breakfast.

I think he should be punished for those few crimes he committed, and then he is free, and those crimes should not be used like they were in the OP. It would be different if his crimes were extremely serious, or he was a real full-time criminal.

On the residency issue, he most likely didn't think about it. When you start out living under your parents' citizenship, and are told that you are free to stay, then your family disintegrates and you are left in the social-services care system, there are not many of your new peers that will be talking about your residency rights.

And that leads on to the documented fact that good parenting often prevents kids from engaging in crime, as opposed to being raised in the social-services environment, which is full of petty crime and lacks positive guidance figures. In that context, committing only two crimes is actually quite impressive.

Jack the Ripper ONLY killed 5 women so not a real criminal in your book then ?

Fact is they intend deporting him IS part of his punishment, and in accordance with the prescribed law for PR's of a country.

you blaming everyone else and making excuses for this guys actions and not taking out citizenship how about a bit of accountability on his part ?...this is not a child, this is a grown adult we are talking about.

Glad you are impressed with him only committing 2 crimes......but lets play this out to conclusion...he now has 2 convictions in the UK, he is not a British citizen, therefore decent job prospects just about nil in the UK, so guess what will happen ?....he will commit more crimes, end up in the nick again and the British tax payer will end up paying and what happens next time he commits a crime and kills or rapes someone ?

still not a real criminal and just misunderstood in your book ?

[Yunla]

I would like to know if you think the same "yeah it is OK...." if someone steals the money from you (and you don't get it back.

I've forgiven people for far worse crimes than theft and assault, those crimes occured in England too and were committed by good local pure English stock.

[Yunla]

Jack the Ripper ONLY killed 5 women so not a real criminal in your book then ?

Fact is they intend deporting him IS part of his punishment, and in accordance with the prescribed law for PR's of a country.

you blaming everyone else and making excuses for this guys actions and not taking out citizenship how about a bit of accountability on his part ?...this is not a child, this is a grown adult we are talking about.

Glad you are impressed with him only committing 2 crimes......but lets play this out to conclusion...he now has 2 convictions in the UK, he is not a British citizen, therefore decent job prospects just about nil in the UK, so guess what will happen ?....he will commit more crimes, end up in the nick again and the British tax payer will end up paying and what happens next time he commits a crime and kills or rapes someone ?

still not a real criminal and just misunderstood in your book ?

The five murders point is ridiculous. You don't really need an explanation of why that is, do you.

You take my points out of context, even though I was careful to word my post to avoid this. I can put some blinkers on and pretend that an Eton boy raised by loving parents, with lots of pocket money and a shiny car in his teens, will commit more crimes than an estate lad who is raised by the DSS and grows up with violence and hunger as a constant background. Or that as adults, the experiences from their childhoods will not leave marks, either positive or negative.

I did specifically say that it was "obviously wrong" to commit those two crimes, but that I understand from experience how rough the DSS childhood can be, and the sort of brigands that one will encounter daily in this seriously underprivileged environment. That doesn't say I condone crime, but I recognise that poor upbringing sometimes clouds moral judgement in otherwise good-natured people. And this is why I see the distinction between somebody from that background who commits two crimes, as opposed to somebody who is truly crooked and just bounces from one crime to the next for their whole lives. The former is somebody who isn't habitually criminal, unlike the latter.

[phrodan]

While he's no angel ( that could hardly be expected given the details of his childhood), he deserves another chance . I support the thrust of these laws but they have to be tempered with some compassion and to allow for circumstances such as these.

he had another chance...he did 2!!! crimes.

I think that committing two or three crimes in his life, while obviously wrong, doesn't make him a criminal. Real criminals commit two or three crimes before breakfast.

I think he should be punished for those few crimes he committed, and then he is free, and those crimes should not be used like they were in the OP. It would be different if his crimes were extremely serious, or he was a real full-time criminal.

On the residency issue, he most likely didn't think about it. When you start out living under your parents' citizenship, and are told that you are free to stay, then your family disintegrates and you are left in the social-services care system, there are not many of your new peers that will be talking about your residency rights.

And that leads on to the documented fact that good parenting often prevents kids from engaging in crime, as opposed to being raised in the social-services environment, which is full of petty crime and lacks positive guidance figures. In that context, committing only two crimes is actually quite impressive.

Jack the Ripper ONLY killed 5 women so not a real criminal in your book then ?

Fact is they intend deporting him IS part of his punishment, and in accordance with the prescribed law for PR's of a country.

you blaming everyone else and making excuses for this guys actions and not taking out citizenship how about a bit of accountability on his part ?...this is not a child, this is a grown adult we are talking about.

Glad you are impressed with him only committing 2 crimes......but lets play this out to conclusion...he now has 2 convictions in the UK, he is not a British citizen, therefore decent job prospects just about nil in the UK, so guess what will happen ?....he will commit more crimes, end up in the nick again and the British tax payer will end up paying and what happens next time he commits a crime and kills or rapes someone ?

still not a real criminal and just misunderstood in your book ?

No - they are deporting him because they brought in a blanket policy for foreign criminals, forcing them to appeal against deportation from overseas, after the event.

I detest these blanket policies - this is the lazy justice system that sees people getting the same penalty for being 1mg over the drink-driving limit as people double the limit. Or the same penalty for driving at 31 mph in a 30 zone as someone driving at 50.

That's not justice - and this guy being deported is not just.

[barrywells]

"They arrived in Preston nearly three decades ago with “Indefinite Leave to Remain” stamped in their passports." Wow, did they have to renew their visa annually or report their address every 90 days?

[Johnniey]

I wish the U.S. would pass a law like this.

If you stopped electing corrupt idiots then you could.

[peterb17]

I am from Preston. I know a little of the background to this story.

His English step father was a drunken bully,

His mother much the same.

Poor bugger did not get a good start in life, so please give him a break.

Colin well said- even surviving the care system ( bit of a misnomer ) is a miracle.

There are some really nasty people on ThaiVisa - the longer you live here- the less you care about what is happening back home. Cameron is banging on about British values and in this case give him and his family a chance .

Of course we must not mention the hundreds of would be immigrants who are camped out in Calais- if they manage to get across the channel- then accepted with open arms!