Bt300 wage 'only good for family of 2'

[Ulic]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Of course you are right, many Thais work very hard to support there families. These are mostly

the self employed Thais. But Johnny Jazz is also right. Decades ago (60's) my father was working

in Indonesia for Esso Oil. My mother had many house staff, gardener, cook, nanny, house keeper.

It was expected that you employ the staff to help Esso's image in the community. (paid by my father,

not Esso) The cost was not a lot, as we were paid in USD and the exchange rate on the black market

currency exchange rate was many times the official rate. My mother was appalled at the low rate of

pay and paid double the going rate. The work load was low as there were many hands to help but

she had a high turn over in staff which stayed about 6 months on average. After 18 months she was

feeling a little befuddled and asked the staff if she was doing something wrong as the high staff turnover

was upsetting her. The answer,... Oh no, everything is great, you pay us so well that after six months

we don't have to work anymore. Yes it was Indonesia in the 60's but many of the same attitudes

can still be found in Thailand today. Staff is cheap, but don't expect a lot of work for 300 baht a day.

Light work, and a lot of socializing with friends. Most of those construction workers, working hard,

sweating in the sun are Cambodians and Burmese not Thais.

[Bluespunk]

In war, the strong make slaves of the weak, and in peace the rich makes slaves of the poor.

Oscar Wilde

[billd766]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Which part you don't agree with ? Thai unemployemnt is close to 0% ? Or that it's impossible to find "qualified" worker (maid, construction worker, gas station attendant, waitresses .... ) at THB 300 / day or even more ?

Yes there are people who work hard to make ends meet but dig a bit further and you will realize it's because they've to support an extended family (that part we agreee) of blood sucker lazy ass.

And no, it's not bar room hearsay, it's what owners of small and medium size companies I'm working with are telling me and official statistic you can find anywhere if you take the time to look for it.

Jonclark is 100% right.

You are stereotyping based on the few dregs of society and putting that stigma onto millions of Thais who do not have the opportunities. Either that or you are living in a westernised Thai bubble and you have no clue about real life outside of it.

There are literally millions who are born way outside the metropolitan areas. 40 million of them in Isaan. Many of whom have no access to proper education or live miles from industrialised areas and were basically raised in a subsistance lifestyle and know no better.

But to you they are lazy no-good blood suckers, which they are not.... If you knew any of them and actually took the time to drill down their life and upbringing, you would learn that they are actually very disadvantaged.

Go to any western country and there is no shortage of lazy assed workshy scum who have had full access to good quality education and training/work (With MUCH higher pay) opportunities that these poor sods can only dream about....... AND WASTED THEM..... In favour of a life on benefits.

So get off your judgemental, holier than thou high horse and get out there and look a bit closer at what is all around you, but you are yet to actually see.

Actually your figure of 40,000,000 is way out of line. In 2010 the population of Issan was only Isan's total population as of 2010 was 21,305,000. Forty percent of the population is concentrated in the provinces of Khorat, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani and Khon Kaen, known as "Big 4 of Isan". These provinces surround the four major cities of the same names. As of 2010, their populations were: Khorat 142,169; Udon Thani 137,979; Khon Kaen 113,828; and Ubon Ratchathani 83,148. However, as of 2010 only 50% of the region's population lived in municipal areas. Kalasin was the most urbanised province (with almost 100% in municipal areas), and Roi Et the least (2.8%). Thus, the population is still largely rural, but concentrated around the urban centres.

Source wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isan

Having pointed that out if you were to look at the map you would see that Issan only covers about 200,000 sq/km and to the west of Issan in the North and Central regions there are a lot more rural areas which will certainly account for the 40,000,000 people.

I agree woleheartedly with the rest of your post as I live in rural Khampaeng Phet and even out here there are a mix of hard workers and lazy buggers but where I live they are either farm workers or the women work in the factory. The only other choices are 7/11, no chance in the local shops or gas stations as they are mostly family owned, and farming.

For the bright and lucky ones, they will get away and if they are smart enough they can get a job in a bank perhaps, probably a job it the cities IF they get a degree and are lucky.

They are the ones that come home sometimes to see their families once a year that they left behind.

[StefanBBK]

My wife can't find workers for 300 baht. She has to pay 500 to 800 depending on qualification, plus lunch... They are good workers, not lazy at all. Mainly in construction / landscaping etc.

[sammygood]

if you are too poor to support a family, maybe you should get a free vasectomy ?

[Jimlove]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

So, how do I get the lazy folk in my neighborhood to do some work for me? I usually pay between B500 and B1500 for just a few hours of work and they still don't come and rather stay home an sleep. BS, sir.

I think the one with the problem is you.... Looking for the lazy workers, you are going to get lazy workers. Try looking for good workers. There are plenty out there and as someone who runs 3 businesses with my wife and anyone on here who employs Thais will tell you that the good workers far outnumber the bad ones and this is nothing that you will not find also in other even the most developed countries.

It is NOT a Thai thing.

You are right there ... People in Africa and Middle East are also like that so its NOT a Thai thing ...

[mike324]

As a business owner who employs over 200, it is safe to say it is hard to find Thai workers, I won't even mentioned qualified. Even foreign workers are getting hard to find. Nobody pays 300 baht/day due to the shortage of workers. And based on a general consensus among other business owner friends, Thais are really lazy or don't want to hustle

I have new workers who walked out of the job after half a day of work, mind you its only a packing job sitting by a table and putting stuff in plastic bags. The work is not hard, and they all have fans. Thats not to say there are no hard workers, but 80-90% are just lazy and seeking for work in malls/retail shops where they get AC and do minimum work waiting for customers.

Based on talking to friends, the only ones that do not have much impact are the ones who pay their workers by the piece, this encourages workers to work fast in order to make more money per day.

Let me guess, are you another one of them that offers 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, 300bht per day?

yeah great offer

im not suprised they dont want to work actually.

Who would want to exploited, making greedy people rich for a few crumbs.

Why dont you go to your own country and pay the mimimum wage there?

You could even get these "woofers" to work for nothing. Even better

Let me guess, are you another one of those that don't read and jump the gun too soon?

I've already said you can't find workers by offering 300 baht, you think I can keep a work force of 200+ with minimum wage?

I'm not surprise why you would make comments like this as you probably never have so many workers under your belt and don't know the problems associated with running a factory.

This is my country.

Even hotel sectors are finding it hard to hire qualified locals...do you think they are paying minimum wage too? Do you think just because it is hard to find workers it means people are paying peanuts? You will probably answer my problem is because my salaries are too low, well my company pays higher than most around the area. It has nothing to do with salaries, it has everything to do with shortage of labors.

Your jabs and guesses are cheap shots... perhaps you are the one that should go home

[jonclark]

Unemployement statistic are usually based on people looking for job. If you're not looking for a job, you're not unemployed. I think a lot of people here will agree with me, a lot of people in Thailand are not looking for a job. For money maybe but definitively not for work.

Look around in Bangkok, most of the workers are Burmese. Why is so ? Because Thais don't want the jobs. Office job, air cond, not overworked ok. But when a bit of sweating is involved ? No way.

Sorry "my" Thailand maybe a bit different from others. I don't go to bar, don't talk to bar girls so was never able to hear their sad life stories. My friends are educated middle class Thais and that's what they say.

Ahh well you should have said earlier - when educated middle class Thais are making disparaging comments about those below them in the social ladder it must be true!

I'm sure it's those nice educated middle class Thais who are first in the line for those nice air con office jobs safe from the sun and over exertion eh?

I am sorry that you have had such bad luck - like your middle class friends - finding good workers. I can assure you that should you ever go to a local market, factory, shopping mall, local shop or restaurant - you will find a Thai person working - not a person from Myanmar. They may not all be excellent, but I am sure that with a smile and a bit of politeness they will do their best to make sure you go away reasonably happy.

Of course a 17 year old working in a Big C on Saturday morning probably isn't the most enthusiastic about his job - at that age neither was I. But the bankers, lawyers, clerks, mechanics, doctors, nurses, fruit sellers, stall holders, market vendors, gardeners, ice cream sellers, tailors, cooks, electrician, plumbers (you get the picture) who I have dealt with in the past 15 years have always been on the whole great workers who have done exactly what was requested.

Edited July 7, 2015 by jonclark

[wabothai]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

I would want to add to this conversation is that many OP's here have first hand experience and it is certainly not stereotypical and based on barstool hearsay. as I speak for myself I don't go to bars but certainly know that work ethics in Thailand need to be worked on to say it lightly. At times i think that Thai really dont like to work. At times I see people working real hard. Definitely no comparison to the west.

[JohnnyJazz]

Unemployement statistic are usually based on people looking for job. If you're not looking for a job, you're not unemployed. I think a lot of people here will agree with me, a lot of people in Thailand are not looking for a job. For money maybe but definitively not for work.

Look around in Bangkok, most of the workers are Burmese. Why is so ? Because Thais don't want the jobs. Office job, air cond, not overworked ok. But when a bit of sweating is involved ? No way.

Sorry "my" Thailand maybe a bit different from others. I don't go to bar, don't talk to bar girls so was never able to hear their sad life stories. My friends are educated middle class Thais and that's what they say.

Ahh well you should have said earlier - when educated middle class Thais are making disparaging comments about those below them in the social ladder it must be true!

I'm sure it's those nice educated middle class Thais who are first in the line for those nice air con office jobs safe from the sun and over exertion eh?

I am sorry that you have had such bad luck - like your middle class friends - finding good workers. I can assure you that should you ever go to a local market, factory, shopping mall, local shop or restaurant - you will find a Thai person working - not a person from Myanmar. They may not all be excellent, but I am sure that with a smile and a bit of politeness they will do their best to make sure you go away reasonably happy.

Of course a 17 year old working in a Big C on Saturday morning probably isn't the most enthusiastic about his job - at that age neither was I. But the bankers, lawyers, clerks, mechanics, doctors, nurses, fruit sellers, stall holders, market vendors, gardeners, ice cream sellers, tailors, cooks, electrician, plumbers (you get the picture) who I have dealt with in the past 15 years have always been on the whole great workers who have done exactly what was requested.

I don't know what is your issue with the middle class, the middle class is the backbone of all advance societies. They are educated and they were born in this country so their opinion is worth considering don't you think ? I feel sorry that during the 15 years that you have spent in Thailand you haven't been able to develop more personal relation with educated Thai people. If your only relation with Thais are occasional deal with fruits sellers, mechanics and plumbers I'm afraid it explains the limited understanding you have of the Thai society despite the many years you have spent in the country.

[h90]

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Which part you don't agree with ? Thai unemployemnt is close to 0% ? Or that it's impossible to find "qualified" worker (maid, construction worker, gas station attendant, waitresses .... ) at THB 300 / day or even more ?

Yes there are people who work hard to make ends meet but dig a bit further and you will realize it's because they've to support an extended family (that part we agreee) of blood sucker lazy ass.

And no, it's not bar room hearsay, it's what owners of small and medium size companies I'm working with are telling me and official statistic you can find anywhere if you take the time to look for it.

As a business owner who employs over 200, it is safe to say it is hard to find Thai workers, I won't even mentioned qualified. Even foreign workers are getting hard to find. Nobody pays 300 baht/day due to the shortage of workers. And based on a general consensus among other business owner friends, Thais are really lazy or don't want to hustle

I have new workers who walked out of the job after half a day of work, mind you its only a packing job sitting by a table and putting stuff in plastic bags. The work is not hard, and they all have fans. Thats not to say there are no hard workers, but 80-90% are just lazy and seeking for work in malls/retail shops where they get AC and do minimum work waiting for customers.

Based on talking to friends, the only ones that do not have much impact are the ones who pay their workers by the piece, this encourages workers to work fast in order to make more money per day.

Let me guess, are you another one of them that offers 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, 300bht per day?

yeah great offer

im not suprised they dont want to work actually.

Who would want to exploited, making greedy people rich for a few crumbs.

Why dont you go to your own country and pay the mimimum wage there?

You could even get these "woofers" to work for nothing. Even better

I think it is 8 hours

[timendres]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Which part you don't agree with ? Thai unemployemnt is close to 0% ? Or that it's impossible to find "qualified" worker (maid, construction worker, gas station attendant, waitresses .... ) at THB 300 / day or even more ?

Yes there are people who work hard to make ends meet but dig a bit further and you will realize it's because they've to support an extended family (that part we agreee) of blood sucker lazy ass.

And no, it's not bar room hearsay, it's what owners of small and medium size companies I'm working with are telling me and official statistic you can find anywhere if you take the time to look for it.

Jonclark is 100% right.

You are stereotyping based on the few dregs of society and putting that stigma onto millions of Thais who do not have the opportunities. Either that or you are living in a westernised Thai bubble and you have no clue about real life outside of it.

There are literally millions who are born way outside the metropolitan areas. 40 million of them in Isaan. Many of whom have no access to proper education or live miles from industrialised areas and were basically raised in a subsistance lifestyle and know no better.

But to you they are lazy no-good blood suckers, which they are not.... If you knew any of them and actually took the time to drill down their life and upbringing, you would learn that they are actually very disadvantaged.

Go to any western country and there is no shortage of lazy assed workshy scum who have had full access to good quality education and training/work (With MUCH higher pay) opportunities that these poor sods can only dream about....... AND WASTED THEM..... In favour of a life on benefits.

So get off your judgemental, holier than thou high horse and get out there and look a bit closer at what is all around you, but you are yet to actually see.

You can argue this point all day long, and it doesn't really matter. There will always be hard working people who want (and deserve) the chance to improve their circumstance, and there will always be lazy sots (even rich ones).

The real question is: Does the minimum wage concept work?

It does not. Like any other government intervention in the free market, it only serves to distort reality. Some people benefit, others do not. But America is crystal clear evidence that it does not eliminate poverty, or even generally improve conditions. It is the government buying votes by making you think they are giving you something for nothing.

If you want to improve matters, focus on education, training, and creating new businesses that employ people at whatever wage makes economic sense.

[Thai at Heart]

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

The problem is 3 or 5 million imported laborers working on 300 a day, thus short circuiting the market which would have by now forced wages for the very poorest up above 300 per day.................

[jonclark]

Unemployement statistic are usually based on people looking for job. If you're not looking for a job, you're not unemployed. I think a lot of people here will agree with me, a lot of people in Thailand are not looking for a job. For money maybe but definitively not for work.

Look around in Bangkok, most of the workers are Burmese. Why is so ? Because Thais don't want the jobs. Office job, air cond, not overworked ok. But when a bit of sweating is involved ? No way.

Sorry "my" Thailand maybe a bit different from others. I don't go to bar, don't talk to bar girls so was never able to hear their sad life stories. My friends are educated middle class Thais and that's what they say.

Ahh well you should have said earlier - when educated middle class Thais are making disparaging comments about those below them in the social ladder it must be true!

I'm sure it's those nice educated middle class Thais who are first in the line for those nice air con office jobs safe from the sun and over exertion eh?

I am sorry that you have had such bad luck - like your middle class friends - finding good workers. I can assure you that should you ever go to a local market, factory, shopping mall, local shop or restaurant - you will find a Thai person working - not a person from Myanmar. They may not all be excellent, but I am sure that with a smile and a bit of politeness they will do their best to make sure you go away reasonably happy.

Of course a 17 year old working in a Big C on Saturday morning probably isn't the most enthusiastic about his job - at that age neither was I. But the bankers, lawyers, clerks, mechanics, doctors, nurses, fruit sellers, stall holders, market vendors, gardeners, ice cream sellers, tailors, cooks, electrician, plumbers (you get the picture) who I have dealt with in the past 15 years have always been on the whole great workers who have done exactly what was requested.

I don't know what is your issue with the middle class, the middle class is the backbone of all advance societies. They are educated and they were born in this country so their opinion is worth considering don't you think ? I feel sorry that during the 15 years that you have spent in Thailand you haven't been able to develop more personal relation with educated Thai people. If your only relation with Thais are occasional deal with fruits sellers, mechanics and plumbers I'm afraid it explains the limited understanding you have of the Thai society despite the many years you have spent in the country.

You really don't know what you are on about 'occasional deal with fruit sellers' (sic) And i certainly don't need to resort to justifying or supporting an opinion by spouting what my educated friends have to say.

My point is on one hand you talk about how lazy they (Thais) all are and only work to achieve sustainability (post 4) and on the other you go into glowing detail how your middle class Thai friends (obviously superior) support these assertions. Smacks of hypocrisy and plain gibberish - clearly your working middle class educated friends are neither lazy nor do they work to achieve sustainability the very things you paint the Thai populace as. But let me guess your friends aren't like that are they, they're different. Of course.

As it happens I agree with you that they probably aren't like that as most of the Thai population aren't like that.

As for whether their opinion is worth anything. There opinion is worth exactly the same as every other man, woman and child in this country. No more, no less.

So i'll creep back to my little hole and continue for the next 15 years to live here with no interaction with or understanding of the world outside my door.

[ericthai]

Well lets dissect his statement shall we? - "an unemployment rate of close to 0% ...the problem is Thais do not want to work". To me an unemployment rate of 0% suggests that most Thais are in fact working, correct? So the first part of the post seems slightly contradictory to say the least.

"Sustainability defined by being able to pay for their daily booze at which point they stop working". What a load of nonsense. A great many people do loads of overtime when it is on offer or work two jobs and actually save their money.

But all people see here is a couple of blokes having a beer at the end of the day - and jump to the conclusion that the vast majority of the working male population are lazy good for nothing alcoholics who work for their daily fix of booze.

(But of course were the same generalization to be aimed at all the foreigners having a pint in one of the many expat pubs around Thailand at the end of a working day the very hubris it would create from the expat community would defy all logic as they would rightly point out that they have worked very hard that day and deserve a couple of beers)

And the final sweeping statement - The problem in Thailand is work ethic - The problem is not a work ethic - as johnnyjazz already established with 0% unemployment that can't be the case. The problem is grinding poverty and a social system entrenched in maintaining the status quo by keeping alive the idea that the majority of the population (i.e. the poor) are on the whole lazy workshy alcoholics who if given the chance to better themselves would simply waste it, so why bother providing them with more opportunities and financial incentives to improve their lot in life.

Me, I take a slightly more optimistic view of my fellow man.

Unemployement statistic are usually based on people looking for job. If you're not looking for a job, you're not unemployed. I think a lot of people here will agree with me, a lot of people in Thailand are not looking for a job. For money maybe but definitively not for work.

Look around in Bangkok, most of the workers are Burmese. Why is so ? Because Thais don't want the jobs. Office job, air cond, not overworked ok. But when a bit of sweating is involved ? No way.

Sorry "my" Thailand maybe a bit different from others. I don't go to bar, don't talk to bar girls so was never able to hear their sad life stories. My friends are educated middle class Thais and that's what they say.

Then i guess you Middle Class Thai's working in their air-con offices dont see all the hard working thai's in the factories. How do you think all those automobiles that are sold in Thailand and exported all over the world get assembled?

I have owned a factory in Thailand for almost 10 years now and all the workers in my factory work their asses off. Always ready for over time. i have seen my guys work double shifts for 2 weeks straight and then tell them to take a day off and several still show up at the factory to help clean up and preform general maintenance on equipment etc.

Prior to owning a factory i worked as an engineer doing projects all over Thailand for companies such as Siam Cement, Phelps Dodge, BASF, Neslte etc.. The workers in these factories are good hard workers or they would not be employed, owners wont put up with bullshit. Sure maybe a hotel or restaurant in a tourist or remote location dont have much of a choice but to hire a local, but for a good factory job there are plenty of hard workers ready to go. Sure there are lazy Thai's same as any other country but i dont think you can say the majority are no good, as that is just not a true statement.