Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Alwyn]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

I can read and the policeman definitely used the word 'lost'. Second paragraph, last line.

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

[jdinasia]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

The article uses the words " or may have "

It's still early in the trial

[jesimps]

Great to see that the people are starting to see what some what some posters are really like and ignoring them is the best medicine for them .

Yes, I could have responded, but what's the mileage in having a meaningless debate argument. Now the Brits are helping the defence, and if independent testing of DNA is permitted, I'm hopeful the prosecution's case will founder on the rocks of truthful disclosure.

..........and if it doesn't and it confirms that they were the killers/rapists!!

I notice that it seems to be the junta groupies on here who are rooting for the Myanmar two to be found guilty. Their blinkered views on anything and everything that could reflect badly on the junta really grips me. Big time!

[sweatalot]

So much talk regarding the DNA testing, maybe the focus should be on how the DNA was obtained, by who, and the sequence of events handling etc. prior to testing?

Exactly correct, the police took DNA samples from many people, what's saying they didn't take that DNA and mix it with samples from the victims and say we have the criminals DNA on the victims so these two boys are diffinetly the ones that committed this crime. Not rocket science!

Unlikely to 'mix it with samples from the victims'. Because then the DNA from the real perpetrators could be found. I think it's more likely the ruse revolved around changing the labeling. Everything is stored on computers now. How hard is it to change the name of a file? ...takes about 15 seconds.

However, perhaps the RTP top brass didn't even act that cagey. Perhaps they just made the claim in October: "DNA from the two Burmese matches the DNA found in Hannah" ....and figured everyone and their uncles would believe it - and then everyone goes on to the next day's headline about ISIS beheadings or whatever. What the RTP didn't count on was this avalanche of sustained concern by those of us seeking truth and justice. It just ruined their ill-conceived plan.

P.S. don't be surprised if one or more top brass suddenly take a permanent vacation to the US or Europe. It wouldn't be an anamoly. It's happened before in Thailand, when criminal cases are proven to be intentionally botched. All of a sudden, POW!, the top brass who's going to be investigated is gone. He left yesterday on a flight to Las Vegas or Miami, and took suitcases of cash. Sounds a bit like Pokemon when she left right after the coup which ousted her husband Thaksin, doesn't it. Except with T's wife, she split with 35 oversized stuffed suitcases. Stay tuned, the roller coaster ride has barely begun.

"Perhaps they just made the claim in October: "DNA from the two Burmese matches the DNA found in Hannah" ."

... just as they made the claim the top suspects' DNA of the influential family was tested and did not match (after a record time, 3 hours or so)

I don't believe any top brass will have to flee the country --- who would persecute them?

[Nigeone]

So the police are saying they have no more sample and that is has 'all been used up'.

What a load of twoddle.

You only need the tiniest bit for a test, evn if you did sereral tests there would have been plenty left.

The cigarette butt alone would probably provide dozens of samples if not more. It would have been saturated in DNA.

Everything the police have come out with has been cock and bull and something you would expect a 5 year old child to come out with.

Your right but the cigarette butt would only prove they or one of them were there on the beach and that's not in doubt as they admitted they were. It doesn't mean they murdered anyone.

[thailandchilli]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

I've said already -- I don't see what possible advantage there is to whomever would want to scare off one or more translators. An eyewitness to the crime, maybe. Doesn't make sense.

It may not make sense to you but that does not mean it is not true and that is the important part, if it is true and its certainly credible enough for Sky News to report then that confirms that this intimidation is going on and perhaps a lot more than we are aware of. How many other people have had the same visit

[wabothai]

It is not the just the two Burmese on trial here but The whole Thai judicial system and the RTP...

yeah but you know , they really dont care one bit.

I beg to differ. Face rules the life of Asians.

[Alwyn]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

The article uses the words " or may have "

It's still early in the trial

Yes it says "may have lost" which means he used the word 'lost' right?

[CapFarmer]

It would not surprise me that in Thailand police can submit DNA evidence without actually having the DNA

watch this space

without actually having the physical evidence this should not be admissible - it simply becomes hearsay

No need to go without the actual DNA, just have the two Burma Boys resubmit their DNA samples and re-use them again. It is already decided that they are guilty after all.

Or you could simply compare against the results of the 5 hospitals that big daddy used to conduct testing for his boy, where ever they got those samples...

Bottom line, there has been no need to maintain any chain of custody for any evidence so far, why start now?

[thailandchilli]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

The article uses the words " or may have "

It's still early in the trial

Yes the article uses the words "or may have lost"

In the mean time the RTP have scurried back to Koh Tao to see if they can find any other evidence that may or may not be lost or vanished.

[PepperMe]

So the police are saying they have no more sample and that is has 'all been used up'.

What a load of twoddle.

You only need the tiniest bit for a test, evn if you did sereral tests there would have been plenty left.

The cigarette butt alone would probably provide dozens of samples if not more. It would have been saturated in DNA.

Everything the police have come out with has been cock and bull and something you would expect a 5 year old child to come out with.

Your right but the cigarette butt would only prove they or one of them were there on the beach and that's not in doubt as they admitted they were. It doesn't mean they murdered anyone.

that is true, that was only one example of the DNA samples they sais they had, there was also alledgedly body fluid from Heather and also the condom. So theoretically they had enough for literally hundreds of tests. If the condom contained sperm, then thousands of tests.

[kkup]

At-least the 2 Burmese have a better chance of being released, on the flip-side, there's no chance of catching the real killers. But I guess that's why it was "lost".

[ttthailand]

Now is face saving time.... Think think think ..... Ok, I got it ! Release the two Burmese guys pay them a million baht and bring in the true killers and blame the screw up on corrupt locals.... The truth will set you free

[sambum]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

I've said already -- I don't see what possible advantage there is to whomever would want to scare off one or more translators. An eyewitness to the crime, maybe. Doesn't make sense.

And you don't understand "Thainess"!

[sweatalot]

Stuff all the amateur Sherlocks - it doesn't matter who did it any more the whole thing is incapable of producing a fair trial no matter WHO you think did it .....trying to pick at evidence and theories is just schoolboy fantasy....it isn't even relevant...any trial of anyone now can be nothing more than a sham

unless they have the DNA taken from the rape. Then they can reexamine the samples taken on the sweep of people and even retest a few who were never really tested.

I, too am dreaming this dream - would be so nice

[loonodingle]

So there off back to Koh Tao to check if they have any further evidence!!! Trial of the century in the making for all the wrong reasons

Speaking to lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat outside the court room, Colonel Somsak said: “I am going back to check and will call you later to tell you what I have.”

The prosecution then asked the three judges to suspend the hearing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11728270/British-backpacker-murder-trial-in-Thailand-descends-into-confusion-over-DNA-evidence

Go to this page as the lady has videoed lots of comment you may not see on the news including the Sky guy talking to the lawyer and Andy hall.

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman

[JLCrab]

So a bunch of thugs may be making the rounds on Koh Samui intimidating translator and other persons who may prove friendly to the defense. Video at 10 pm.

[ianf]

Re; the DNA trail: People talk about the possibility of 'planting' evidence, as well as destroying or creating it. While those are possibilities, methinks the most likely and easiest way to alter evidence, is by intentionally mis- or re-labeling it. Doing that would only entail one or two high-up people with access, probably top brass. Afterwards, everyone down the line would have no choice but to accept it at face value.

That's yet another reason why it would be useful to get Brit experts involved. Next best would be re-examination of evidence by objective Thai experts, but who in Thailand is really objective, particularly if they work within the sphere of government? By definition, everyone working in government has a boss, and has to go along with what the boss wants. If a high officer provides a DNA sample to a lab technician and says, "get me the DNA typing for this" the techie is obliged to follow orders. He/she is not going to say, "excuse me sir, can I get independent verification that this sample actually came from who it purportedly came from?"

One possible scenario: At some early point in the investigation, the B2 got their DNA typed. Thai officials wanted a match with the victim. They trash the original type cards of DNA taken from Hannah, then take the B2 DNA type cards, and re-label them: "DNA taken from Hannah." I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but it's an easy-to-implement scenario which would explain what we've been hearing. And would also explain why Brit experts are kept at arm's length, and would explain why there's so much evasiveness, by Thai officials, for re-examining the DNA trail.

More baseless speculation to fit your agenda

Wholeheartedly disagree with you. Most speculation in any area is not necessarily 'baseless' but, especially in the poster's argument above, appears to be based on some rational thinking and observation. In any case, don't simply dismiss the poster in these terms. Explain to us eager readers why you think it is baseless, what you think his 'agenda' is and what you propose. Thanks.

[Thaidream]

If it does not fit- you must acquit. My God people. If there is no chain of custody and the evidence is indeed lost- all you have is hearsay. Yet, the result is still in doubt. But not to me.

[PepperMe]

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

The article uses the words " or may have "

It's still early in the trial

Yes the article uses the words "or may have lost"

In the mean time the RTP have scurried back to Koh Tao to see if they can find any other evidence that may or may not be lost or vanished.

I suggest you are either desperate to defend the RTP or are just being incredibly pedantic.

At the end of the day they have failed to come to court with their star evidence that this entire case relies on and then make a statement with regards to it

1. Being lost

2. May be lost

3. All used up and discarded.

Yet you still seem to think it is quite realistic that they could trot into court with it tomorrow.

Get over it.... It is a stitch up and not even a good one at that.

Edited July 9, 2015 by PepperMe

[boomerangutang]

This might have been said before but they should prosecute the police for losing the evidence.

As you and I know, that's doubtful. Ineptitude is not a prosecutable offense within the RTP. However, intentionally skewing evidence is prosecutable. There was a similar case, where a young farang woman was murdered in Bkk. There was an initial trial, which got screwed up. Then there was a subsequent trial with another set of defendants. The 2nd trial got convictions (but the mastermind got off free, and she's residing in C.Rai). The main point here, is the chief investigator was being investigated for intentionally screwing with the evidence in the first trial. Just when his case was about to be addressed by RTP, he took all his money and scooted off to reside in Miami, where he is now - ever-free from the short arm of Thai justice.

Stuff all the amateur Sherlocks - it doesn't matter who did it any more the whole thing is incapable of producing a fair trial no matter WHO you think did it .....trying to pick at evidence and theories is just schoolboy fantasy....it isn't even relevant...any trial of anyone now can be nothing more than a sham

unless they have the DNA taken from the rape. Then they can reexamine the samples taken on the sweep of people and even retest a few who were never really tested.

I agree with the response post. It's not 'all of a sudden there's no DNA evidence' ...because RTP operatives screwed up. There should still be DNA evidence in the care of Brit officials. If this case is thrown out, there could be a subsequent case with a new slew of defendants - and more reliable DNA evidence/typing could be provided by the Brits. See my note above, in this same post.

[Nigeone]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

I've said already -- I don't see what possible advantage there is to whomever would want to scare off one or more translators. An eyewitness to the crime, maybe. Doesn't make sense.

It may not make sense to you but that does not mean it is not true and that is the important part, if it is true and its certainly credible enough for Sky News to report then that confirms that this intimidation is going on and perhaps a lot more than we are aware of. How many other people have had the same visit

Also I have already stated as I'm in the UK at the moment,there was a live interview from Koh Tao done yesterday where I watched a Burmese Worker state that the Mafia run the Island and everyone is frightened of saying who did it and they extort money from everyone. They then switched to Jonathan Samuels outside the court who informed everyone initially live,afterwards the same clip repeated thought the night and early UK time, that his local translator had been leaned on and they weren't able to help with translations anymore..Fact. This has been on SKY news continually..I hope this puts this one to bed. In a case with this much media coverage he really wouldn't lie. Why was the interpreter leant on. Simple to try and do anything to prevent or make it hard for the truth to come out. Andy Hall has also said there's a lack of Thai news reporters present. Do you really thing that's a coincidence . The big problem is the Thai authorities RTP and mafia are not allowing for the persistence of the UK media and they are not going to be suppressed. I think most people understand all this except for Thais and the people on here trying to stick up for this sham Edited July 9, 2015 by Scott

[loonodingle]

The young Scottish busker who fled the Thai island of Koh Tao in fear for his ... Lanarkshire, who said on Facebook 'The mafia are trying to kill me! ... by a bar manager and a policeman who accused him of the murder, and a ..

This guy knows more and should be called to testify.

he done a runner. He knows plenty McAnna....

[sweatalot]

Just a thought, if the DNA isn't a match, I wonder who's DNA might have been found in Hannah.

Do you (jdinasia) think it should be retested against those who have already been tested ? Maybe a certain someone could head to Britain and do a test in front of the T.V. cameras.

If you're asking jdinasia or AleG, they would say 'No' ...new testing of DNA should not be done which compares Nomsod's or Mon's DNA (or any other of the Headman's peoples' DNA) against the DNA found in/on Hannah. They would say something like, "No, they're not the defendants, they've already been cleared. Forget about them. Don't even mention their names. They're cleared now and foreever, you got that?!"

Do you mean with also the Alibi of Nomsod, in which he is captured on CCTV in his Bangkok Residence at the University on both the day before and the day of the murders?

Or does your Grand Conspiracy Theory also include the Security at the University Campus, plus all the University Students who say Nomsod was in class at the Bangkok University and writing an exam on the morning of September 15th, and day of the murders?

DNA Testing is expensive and also very time consuming. I am sure they are backlogged in Thailand for other crimes, and just like they are where you live. So you can add me to the list that would say No, as with an Alibi like this, you are just wasting time and tax payers money. Especially when you already have a match from the 2 accused.

My friend you do speak some serious pap, in many posts you make to do with this case it seems. Not sure what your agenda is?

There are reports that Nomsod was on KT that night, along with some of his privileged pals, hanging out in his uncles bar. There were students in his class that said he was missing. The Uni cctv 'snapshot' that shows him on uni property the NEXT day had a lot of doubts about its authenticity, and even if authentic it in no way proves that he was not on KT the previous night. (Out of interest is this cctv snapshot from the next day the 'iron clad alibi' that you refer to? If so can you explain how that is 'iron clad'?)

The confrontation between Hannah / David and some locals in the AC bar seems to be neatly forgotten. No cctv has ever been forthcoming from the AC bar I believe? That's pretty handy if our chum was there. Also jokes (or maybe not jokes?) the next day or two between Nomsod and one or two of his chums about the killings on Facebook (in Thai). One of these people was a girl who, like Nomsod, regularly visits KT (another very privileged offspring) and these 2 in particular chatted and joked about the killings. I must dig up her name. The way they talked made me wonder if she might have been on KT that weekend too. In fact to be honest it made me wonder if they were both involved. I'd also be interested to know more about the AC bar DJs and the large fella who posed with a ho as he cropped up in some facebook friends lists also.

Despite numerous cameras on the wee strip there seemed to be a total lack of cctv available/provided of the night in question apart from a few seconds of edited stuff from a single camera. Surely just a few hours of uninterrupted cctv from a few of the best positioned cameras would have helped this case possibly, rather than the tiny bit released that, surprise surprise, just served to confuse and muddy waters even more. Now who can control all this stuff on the ground?

1. Village headman (or relatives)

2. RTP

3. No-one else

Why was Mon and his dodgy copper pal threatening to pin it on and hang Sean McCanna to tidy up if they had nothing on him?

I'll grant you one point for your observation about the condom a few pages back, but, if correct, that to me just backs up the fact that there was a very personal motive behind this attack IMO. The B2 just do not fit. Some others fit much better. I'm not saying Mon was the main perp (or even involved in the initial crimes) but his alleged 'dna test' was apparently done and dusted in 8 hours seemingly without anything even leaving the island yet days later the Bangkok lab themselves said it takes an absolute minimum of 24 hours to do the tests. So I call BS on that particular 'test'. Was Mon hiding something, or maybe his dna might have been uncomfortably close to one of the guilty parties?

I think the only thing that is guaranteed is that the real perps will never get done for this. I do think that there is a lot more knowledge on the island than is being shared, so possibly the truth will out in the long run but will never be 'cast iron'. If people living there think that is paradise then so be it. Funny idea of paradise though - being shit scared of your life if you don't toe the killer mafia line. You can keep that thanks.

Just a fantasy (I am not saying this should happen)

if one or a few big blasts would happen on Koh Tao, destroying some of the most expensive houses on this island killing all their inhabitants -

may be the next day you could hear from everybody who did it and how it was covered up

[soalbundy]

The police have shown themselves to be true professionals, how can you destroy..lose...vital evidence in a case that the world press is looking at, unless of course you wanted it to be lost.....Oh no a mistrial because the main evidence has been lost and we were so close, oh well cant be helped we will have to deport them back to Burma, but they did it, no more questions please.

[thailandchilli]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

I've said already -- I don't see what possible advantage there is to whomever would want to scare off one or more translators. An eyewitness to the crime, maybe. Doesn't make sense.

It may not make sense to you but that does not mean it is not true and that is the important part, if it is true and its certainly credible enough for Sky News to report then that confirms that this intimidation is going on and perhaps a lot more than we are aware of. How many other people have had the same visit

Also I have already stated as I'm in the UK at the moment,there was a live interview from Koh Tao done yesterday where I watched a Burmese Worker state that the Mafia run the Island and everyone is frightened of saying who did it and they extort money from everyone. They then switched to Jonathan Samuels outside the court who informed everyone initial live,afterwards the same clip repeated thought the night and early UK time, that his local translator had been leaned on and they weren't able to help with translations anymore..Fact. This has been on SKY news continually..I hope this puts this one to bed. In a case with this much media coverage he really wouldn't lie. Why was the interpreter leant on. Simple to try and do anything to prevent or make it hard for the truth to come out. Andy Hall has also said there's a lack of Thai news reporters present. Do you really thing that's a coincidence . The big problem is the Thai authorities RTP and mafia are not allowing for the persistence of the UK media and they are not going to be suppressed. I think most people understand all this except for Thais and the people on here trying to stick up for this sham

Yes I noticed that tweet by Andy too:

Been so busy last few days just realized there is very limited Thai language domestic media reporting on Koh Tao case. Interesting.

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

Its all very worrying that this has happened, the only positive note is that whenever its discovered the international media has no problems reporting it. Unlike their Thai counterparts

[JLCrab]

If the local hoodlums want to put a damper on the media reporting, instead of threatening some poor Thai girl translator, why don;t they just arrange for the SKY News reporter to have an unfortunate traffic accident on the way back to his hotel. We all know how dangerous are those roads on Koh Samui.

Edited July 9, 2015 by JLCrab

[bunglebag]

The apologists must be a bit ticked off as they're tasked with flogging a dead horse now.

Their job, which was already difficult to do without looking silly, is becoming nigh on impossible to do without looking even sillier and shill-like.

[Thaidream]

The Western media needs to keep reporting on this case and not be run off. I have read nothing in the Thai media or seen any report on Thai TV. I am getting a real bad feeling about this case I hope I am wrong.

[ChiangraiTony]

If there really is no hard DNA evidence, I'm sure by now the family of the deceased feels terrible if this case gets dropped without any further leads of who the real killers are. There is still more to come so I will refrain from further comment until more unfolds.