Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Lozza]

I just feel so sorry and sad for their parents, who are probably reading all the crap that you lot are spewing out.

You have taken this discussion to a level that is almost laughable and despicable.

You lot don't care that those two young people were murdered in the most horrific way - you just want to show how corrupt the police in Thailand are. You have no feelings at all.

Just another Farang murder in Thailand. Who cares who they were.

One of you even called her Victoria in one of his blundering posts. How disrespectful is that?

I, for one, do care. And if i could unsee those horrific photos i would.

Give a thought to their families and friends, please?

Hang on, every person involved here are doing so because we as well want the people who did the found and sentenced so please don't for one minute think we have a bone to pick with the police. Had it not been for forums to discuss and assist trying to find the killers these Burmese boy's fate would have been sealed 10 months ago leaving the true killers still out there to do it again. Should they be found guilty we can rest peacefully knowing we fought as hard as we could

.

Not sure what you mean about the police corruption comments, if you have ever been to Thailand you'd be in a position to know that the police force is corrupt in every sense that's no big secret. The world now understands that Thailand is not just a beautiful place for Islands, shopping, diving, snorkeling and thai culture the majority of Thai's are beautiful caring people they know what dark issues are beneath the surface and want changes for their country and hopefully the P.M will give them that, I'm confident he will.

I am sure the families of David and Hannah will at some stage be thankful for everyone's input there's three sides to this their story, our story and the truth.

Hoping you can understand why we are here. Thank you

Oops-I forgot about 3 members here are in for the kill not sure what their M.O is could be that they like the sound of their keyboard. If you follow this thread you'd have worked it out.

[StealthEnergiser]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

[Darkknight666]

John, why is there no footage from AC bar at all? They have working CCTV but there's no record of who went in and out? It's conveniently missing or not been looked at?

You're hoping we get the usual Thailand, the Mai pen rai Thailand. Only there are millions of eyes around the world watching... Waiting to see what Thailand does, does that worry you? It should.

Where is your source that there was cameras in the AC Bar? I have read by posters here who claim to have been there that there is not. I believe the police also stated there is no camera at the back door. You also clearly have no real understanding of Thai culture based on your last comments which are appear to also provide some insight into your motives here. As for worry me, no clue what you are talking about. I have no personal stake and have no concern what-so-ever what the "millions of eyes" see. If these guys are found guilty or not or there is some vast conspiracy uncovered that reaches up to the highest level of politics ... I am not going to lose sleep. I certainly have no irrational belief I am involved in this case or believe I have more knowledge about it then those tasked with trying the case.

Oh, what's that? John doesn't know how to use google? What about all of those Google courses you were giving posters a few pages back. Yes, AC bar has cameras, the little medicine kiosk I buy my kids vitamins at have CCTV... This is important evidence because whatever happened at the bar lead up to the murders. But like so much other evidence it's gone?

In the running man ORIGINAL video, there are people in the background.. People who watched the running man run by..... I sure hope they have that person as a witness, But I won't be surprised when they do not.

There is nothing conclusive to hang anyone for the crime at this point.

[smedly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR_jC_K4aQM

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

[Darkknight666]

John, why is there no footage from AC bar at all? They have working CCTV but there's no record of who went in and out? It's conveniently missing or not been looked at?

Where is your source that there was cameras in the AC Bar? ....

There is at least one camera on the front entrance to the AC bar. An actual working camera on KT, amazing! It shows David entering the bar about 2.5 hours before the crime, but then ..... It shows nothing else. So even that one camera seized filming. Why? Did it show people entering and/or leaving the bar which the Headman, Mon, police and prosecution don't want any outsiders to see? If so, it shouldn't surprise anyone at this point, if RTP are continuing to hide/destroy/ignore/discount/misinterpret evidence.

Thanks I was looking for the story (still am) about that camera.. And whatdya know there aren't many photos of the front of AC bar.... Maybe because it's a dump like the resort?

All the little resorts I've been to have CCTV everywhere but inside the rooms. CCTV is so cheap and effective at deterring and catching criminals people tend to want it in their businesses.. Until it can incriminate them.

[boomerangutang]

Were is the video of (allegedly) a boat leaving the beach/pier in the hour after the crime. When RTP mentioned it in court ('it was considered unimportant, so we didn't look at it.') ....he used the word 'have' ....not the word 'had' although Thai is not a precise spoken language, 'have' indicates they still have that video. Can we see it? ....or at least allow the defense to see it. There are, as the same cop testified in court; 'hundreds of hours' of video which he and his able associates perused. Is all that footage still available? Can us peons, or the defense see it?

The mind reels when considering the footage which cops deemed totally unimportant. They didn't want to busy themselves with looking at the early morning 'boat taking off' video(s), but yet they claim they looked at hundreds of hours of other video from the vicinity. And then there's the statement of 200 of 300 cameras not working that night. Were some of those cameras located at In-Touch or AC or AC2 bars ? Did cops say in court there was video of the beach area where the Burmese boys were playing guitar? I don't know, there are too many screw-ups by cops for little ol' me to try to keep up with. Someone should make a list, but it would be book-length, small font. Yet more reading, yikes. I'm going outside - it's a beautiful day - but not for the Burmese boys in prison. They can't go walk around freely. Top brass conspirators + the headman + Mon made sure of that.

[Nigeone]

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

Yes and he also states that they have the motorbike impounded too. Which leads me to say if his scenario is correct and the B2 left on the motorbike where is the DNA from the motor bike. There has to be from the state of the crime scene and the blood splattered over the sand blood etc transferred to clothing and of course then onto the bike. If this was what happened of course ! Mind you where is the B2 clothes from that night ? And the bike could,have been cleaned but I wonder if it's ever been checked. They haven't mentioned it and I suspect it wouldn't have been

[GOLDBUGGY]

Read and re-read quite a lot of this thread.

I agree with, amongst others, balo...

Further, it is my opinion that JTJ and Goldbuggy live in la-la land. It's a made up name strangely...

Of course they are entitled to an opinion, but as no one person on this 'thread' has the whole knowledge or indeed expertise outside of their comfort zone, we shall all need to wait and see.

But it makes fascinating reading...in a purely fictitious sense.

Justice will win the day I hope.

Sorry but I don't remember anyone claiming they had "whole knowledge" of this case. Even the Gang from the Hang-em High or Conspiracy Group. So perhaps it is only you in your own made up la-la land? So please go back to whatever you are smoking and enjoy the show.

[boomerangutang]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

I would like to see the B2 at least granted bail - so they don't have to sleep with 3/8" chains on their ankles. But I'd have better chance convincing the Pope to get a sex-change and join Lady Gaga's back-up band, than any influence with father-knows-best Thai PM.

[Darkknight666]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

[StealthEnergiser]

What has been done about the cctv's on island are there regulations that they must be working the defence should check this out and maybe bring the cctv contractors to the stand and examine their financials.

The judges were told 200 of the 300 CCTV cameras in the vicinity were not working.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

[Darkknight666]

And Stealth.. I don't think 100,000 letters from expat would mean a thing to the PM... Thai letters to him maybe. Social media is the worst thing for corruption and miscarriages of justice. The story is big in Thailand and the UK but the U.S is hardly covering it (aside from TIME and a few others) until the trial is over.... Then the U.S. Will take interest, sadly.

[StealthEnergiser]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

I would like to see the B2 at least granted bail - so they don't have to sleep with 3/8" chains on their ankles. But I'd have better chance convincing the Pope to get a sex-change and join Lady Gaga's back-up band, than any influence with father-knows-best Thai PM.

You never know until you try I have a good sense that it could have a lot more impact if he is confronted with it. Because it's possible he is being kept in the dark.

[StealthEnergiser]

And Stealth.. I don't think 100,000 letters from expat would mean a thing to the PM... Thai letters to him maybe. Social media is the worst thing for corruption and miscarriages of justice. The story is big in Thailand and the UK but the U.S is hardly covering it (aside from TIME and a few others) until the trial is over.... Then the U.S. Will take interest, sadly.

You are probably right i would just like to see him hold a media conference asked some honest questions about the police failures and possible corruption in the ranks that could have seen the b2 face the death penalty.

[sartoric]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

I would like to see the B2 at least granted bail - so they don't have to sleep with 3/8" chains on their ankles. But I'd have better chance convincing the Pope to get a sex-change and join Lady Gaga's back-up band, than any influence with father-knows-best Thai PM.

I'm pretty sure I saw a tweet from Andy Hall saying he had been to the prison and sorted out the sleeping with shackles issue. No doubt for a consideration...

[Nigeone]

Years ago, my first g.f. in Thailand was a cute hill tribe gal. When I'd ask her about an English word she studied the day before, she would say 'forget' ...but it would come out sounding like 'f--- it'

Thailand's lead inspector on this case is a Police Colonel. His responses to nearly all questions (by the defense), in court recently, was 'I don't know' Here's a suggestion to the fuzzy-brained Colonel: try spicing up your responses by saying 'forget' once in awhile, Thai style. It would take some of the boredom out of the long drawn-out proceedings.

Incidentally, at the rate this trial is going, they'll be lucky to touch upon 1/10th of pertinent data relating to evidence. Do they know that? Or are they content to just brush the surface, and then make a decision based on societal proclivities. Personally, I'd like to see it drawn out, because RTP is getting caught in its conspiracy spider web of its own making. Maybe, just maybe, the people who were initially (and who should still be) prime suspects - will be slapped in jail with no bail, as they should be.

I think it would be a great idea for one of the good writers on Thai Visa such as your self could write an open letter to the PM requesting release of the B2 and reasons why and maybe others could put it on other social media places.

I would like to see the B2 at least granted bail - so they don't have to sleep with 3/8" chains on their ankles. But I'd have better chance convincing the Pope to get a sex-change and join Lady Gaga's back-up band, than any influence with father-knows-best Thai PM.

I'm not sure about the bail issue. My thoughts would be they might be safer be it not in nice surroundings and poorly fed but while it's a possibility of course I don't think it's going to happen now that something would happen to them where they are now. Outside might be tough to protect them. Embassy perhaps?

[evadgib]

Embassies are unlikely to provide B&B or act as guarantor for murder suspects.

Chains usually come off once back in a secure environment. There are exceptions (mental health, violence) but they're not worn indefinately. All remand prisoners wear them at court to reduce the risk of escape.

[thailandchilli]

And Stealth.. I don't think 100,000 letters from expat would mean a thing to the PM... Thai letters to him maybe. Social media is the worst thing for corruption and miscarriages of justice. The story is big in Thailand and the UK but the U.S is hardly covering it (aside from TIME and a few others) until the trial is over.... Then the U.S. Will take interest, sadly.

You are probably right i would just like to see him hold a media conference asked some honest questions about the police failures and possible corruption in the ranks that could have seen the b2 face the death penalty.

Unfortunately I don't hold much faith in him making any criticisms or accepting the RTP have failed in this judging by his last episode:

PHUKET: PM blows top over Koh Tao queries

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-Ocha lost his temper when a reporter pressed him for a comment on a Time magazine article criticising the police work in the murders of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

"If I rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects," Gen Prayut said. - http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-pm-blows-top-over-koh-tao-queries-48883.php

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Hate to say this but given the circumstances they are safer in prison than out on bail. If they would ac-ci-den-tal-ly die the trial would end with them precieved to be guilty. No defendants.. case closed.

[Neeranam]

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

[Nigeone]

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

But who are the guilty persons? I don't know although I have a gut feeling in what direction they might be found but you can't convict on gut feelings. I don't think the B2 did this but it still is possible they were there in some shape of form although again I don't think so. Nothing up to now indicates they had anything to do with it but there's still so much to come out. If the chain of custody for the DNA can be proven then I would accept they were involved but until then ! As I've said before there was more than two people involved in this in my opinion. Time is going to tell.!

[brewsterbudgen]

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

Even if this was posted 'tongue in cheek', encouraging vigilantism is more than stupid.

[smedly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR_jC_K4aQM

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

One of the fundamental primary goals of any murder investigation is to place the accused at the crime scene (tick)

and

also at the approximate time the crime took place (X) I believe in this case somewhere between 3am and 4:30am allowing for time to actually commit the crime, you could also narrow this down with a witness statement from someone that heard a disturbance on the beach, I believe the police already have this from 2x French girls staying at the resort

so if they were caught on cctv riding their motorbike and it didn't correlate with the above then that would cast considerable doubt that they had any involvement

[berybert]

Are you saying they shared an after murder ciggy ?

I didn't say or speculate anything like that

Do tell us how her DNA could have been found on the ciggy if she didn't touch or smoke it.

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

[Neeranam]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

The important question here is if you look at the guy returning, there is obviously someone walking in front of him as the shadow can be seen - why did they cut the other person out ? Who were they and who did the editting?

[Lancashireman]

Read and re-read quite a lot of this thread.

I agree with, amongst others, balo...

Further, it is my opinion that JTJ and Goldbuggy live in la-la land. It's a made up name strangely...

Of course they are entitled to an opinion, but as no one person on this 'thread' has the whole knowledge or indeed expertise outside of their comfort zone, we shall all need to wait and see.

But it makes fascinating reading...in a purely fictitious sense.

Justice will win the day I hope.

Sorry but I don't remember anyone claiming they had "whole knowledge" of this case. Even the Gang from the Hang-em High or Conspiracy Group. So perhaps it is only you in your own made up la-la land? So please go back to whatever you are smoking and enjoy the show.

Thank you Goldbuggy.

I haven't suggested one person had whole knowledge, quite the opposite in fact. But you as the pseudo chairperson of the 'conspirators' as I read it, seem to know enough to spin the drivel quite affectively. Wish I smoked whatever it is that clouds your thought processes...keep it real, La la land is proud of you.

[Lancashireman]

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

Even if this was posted 'tongue in cheek', encouraging vigilantism is more than stupid.

Agree brewsterbudgen. I doubt it's tongue in cheek, sadly. The bravado shown from behind the keyboard is as astonishing as their ignorance. Mildly entertaining though it is...

[Bung]

Embassies are unlikely to provide B&B or act as guarantor for murder suspects.

Chains usually come off once back in a secure environment. There are exceptions (mental health, violence) but they're not worn indefinately. All remand prisoners wear them at court to reduce the risk of escape.

More pertinently, shackles are used to give the impression of guilt. You dont see higher up thais in them do you? They would have done the business to ensure their freedom already and court appearances a formality to give the impression of justice.

Poor folk are always shackled to help prove guilt.

Oh, farangs are usually shackled too! We dont count either when facing the Thai legal system.

Its actually disgraceful.

[Si Thea01]

Here is the original CCTV of running man from a Thai paper. Listen. Somebody would have been sleeping and heard screams and fighting, it would wake me up anyways, and I'd record at the very least, More likely I would go see what in the world was going on. My presumptions, Yes.

The important question here is if you look at the guy returning, there is obviously someone walking in front of him as the shadow can be seen - why did they cut the other person out ?

May I ask but just how many shadows do you see in this footage?

[Lancashireman]

Are you saying they shared an after murder ciggy ?

I didn't say or speculate anything like that

Do tell us how her DNA could have been found on the ciggy if she didn't touch or smoke it.

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

berybert, good point. Don't encourage JTJ. For 10 months he has pontificated and got responses. He thrives on it, truly a legend in his own sleuth circles of expertly worded BS & b*****x.