Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Gweiloman]

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

Personally, I doubt very much that NS would take on David Miller or that he would use the hoe on Hannah. Having said that, we have established that there are others (workers, bodyguards etc) that does the bidding of their masters.

all there workers and bodyguards but they cant find anyone to help dispose of 2 Bodies ?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

Is your keyboard stuck?

[Tony121]

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

Personally, I doubt very much that NS would take on David Miller or that he would use the hoe on Hannah. Having said that, we have established that there are others (workers, bodyguards etc) that does the bidding of their masters.

all there workers and bodyguards but they cant find anyone to help dispose of 2 Bodies ?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

Is your keyboard stuck?

No just giving questions that none of the conspiracy theorist tinfoilers can give reasonable answers too,

[JLCrab]

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

[stephenterry]

Maybe the Thai media just has a good gauge of the interests of their audience.

Right. Thai media would rather have a front page article about a woman marrying a cow, and the cow shown lying on her bed. Sells more papers.

Which is what the authorities hope will happen to deflect adverse public opinion. Democracy? Freedom of speech? Forget it. Protect the hierarchy at all costs. I'm amazed that this site hasn't been blocked.

[stephenterry]

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

Your opinion, okay. I'm broad shouldered enough to take a hit. Any review, bad or good, helps sales. My crime novels are on Kindle - there's 6 of them (two of which are based in Thailand, three of which are based in the US, and one in England). Enjoy.

[Darkknight666]

Do you realize that 99% of the stuff written on these +122 Pages is not based on any facts at all but merely speculation? That when the FACTS are reported and linked to the Media (which is the only source of information we have whether it is true or false) it is shot down as nobody believes it as it does not fit into their mind set?

But do you attack any of them? No!

You attack someone who you don't agree with and called them a liar when you have zero FACTS to back that up. Just another Hypocrite.

You want FACTS, well here is one for you.

Drugs are in FACT related to many serious crimes.

So you can stick that in your pipe and smoke that to.

Sorry you're so confused, GB. The one 'fact' you offered in the above post, is a generalization.

Tony121's fixation on drugs may or may not have a bearing on finding who the real criminals are. They do serve a function though: to divest from the topic and waste peoples' time and calories responding to their suppositions clad in figments of imagination.

RTP have purposefully not mentioned drugs (zero mention of yaba) in this case, other than the Burmese guys were drinking alcohol.

RTP have not said a peep about....

>>> whether the mafia punks deal or are involved with drugs at their beach bars

>>> whether Sean has a drug dealing connection with Thai drug dealers at the bars (there's at least on FB entry alluding to that)

>>> what, if any, drugs the two victims were doing. RTP stated on the 2nd day of the investigation that they would not release that data (if they even tested for it or had it?) ....in respect for the victims' families.

....so let's let sleeping dogs lie, and try to focus on issues which relate to the crime.

I totally agree it is pure speculation. I also agree that drugs has no bearing as far as who committed these crimes. Who gave them a drug test that night to see what condition they were in? Or for that matter a breathalyzer? So if on one hand we are going to discredit drug use then we also have discredit their statement they were drunk as well. AS neither can be proven.

Also no talk about mafia involved with drugs or any of that on the Island. But there have been posts made here with claims they are readily available on the Island. I don't know as I have never been their, but if they are then someone must be selling them.

Personally, and as I said, this drug thing has merit with me. I can't speak for anyone else or John, but I just have a difficult time believing someone could do such a horrible thing like he did with two these 2 Victims, dead sober, or not high on drugs. Who ever it may be. I am sure it happens, but I am just having a hard time believing it.

As mentioned it was pure speculation, which personally I have see a lot here without someone getting attacked for it. If a person doesn't agree then this can open an interesting discussion. But when people start attacking others just because they don't share the same opinion, then start calling them names, this is where all this wasted time has gone. I don't think anyone here wants to see post after post of nothing but arguments. If people don't want to hear some else's different opinion then go to a blog where everyone is on the same page, and where nobody different.

The Ignore Option is always available for anyone to use. Nobody is forcing anyone here to read what they write. Nobody is on Trial here.

Of course everything here is speculation, And? The only reason I feel bad at all about what I'm posting is others who just want the news have to read hundreds of comments. Sorry about that guys but I don't much care. I take this personally being that I live here and have a daughter here. What happened to Hannah could easily happen to my daughter and that falls on Thailands head. There is no justice for anyone of this case isn't taken seriously and the real killer caught.

I have a bit of experience with drug users and therefor can offer an opinoin on this whole meth thing, Meth heads brains go 1 million MPH and the first priority is staying high, second priority is not going to Jail while counting crimes for more drugs. Only a long time addict with a HISTORY of sex abuse would be likely to commit a sexual crime while on meth. So, IMO of course, The slaying of David and Hannah wasn't a random druggie rape. I'm confident in saying this because an individual high on Meth wouldn't have taken David's clothes off and stacked them in a neat pile to try and misdirect investigators(lol).

A meth head would rape, kill, run. Kind of like that speedboat guy, eh? Only speedboat guy doesn't have enough influence.

You're looking at the actions, and reading the statements of RTP at face value. You're leaving out their massive errors in this case. You're purposely trying to derail anything members post that indicate anyone other than B2. You're also cherry picking stories to fit your narrative, which is all fine. I'd just like to know why you lurk this thread day in and day out trying to convince people it couldn't be corruption and ineptitude, No it has to be those damn druggies! Damn druggie Burmese!

So, where did the Blonde hair end up? CRUCIAL evidence, Gone. And where are the samples so they can be varafied? Standard protocol to keep evidence like that.. And it's gone, why?

Someone nefarious is pulling the strings here, and I really hope to see that end. Justice is what I want... True justice. Simple.

Why do you keep dragging me in on this? I said that the person being on drugs has merit (worthy of attention) because these crimes were particularly brutal and I find it difficult to believe that this person was not on alcohol or drugs to committed these crimes. If you do not agree then fine.

I really love how you start your attack on me saying people don't want to comments they want to read news, then go to say "but here is my opinion". What you really mean to say is your opinion is the only one that counts here, or peoples who agree with you, and nobody else should have one. I have yet to see you post a single link with news on it, so please don't lecture me on making comments.

I do not do cherry picking! I give my post a quote from the media report (Topic) and then link it. I link the full article for people to read and decide for themselves. I do not cut it into small pieces and just print what might me a one sided opinion. I do not attack anyone for their opinion. I do sometimes respond to people who attack me though, for mine.

If you want True Justice then you first need an open mind, which you have displayed time and time again that you do not have. You first need to hear the evidence from both sides. As it stands now I have not heard any from the Defense. Have you? If there is strong evidence to support there innocents, or reasonable doubt at least, then it will be brought out in the Trail I would think.

If you have a daughter and are concerned about her, I would think you would want to make damned sure that the accused are not the ones who did this before you set them free. To set a murdered free, and for him to commits these rapes and murders again. As a Parent of the second raped and murdeerd victim, it must be twice as hard to accept. Especially after they were on Trail already for the same thing, but set free.

You say I purposely derail things that points to the possibility the B2 are innocent. I don't do no such thing. I welcome any evidence to suggest their innocent. I don't consider a theory or gossip as evidence, even when it sounds good. But it is people like you with poor or no information that derail yourselves. Here is a good example.

You asked me "So where did the Blonde hair end up?". "CRUCIAL evidence, Gone."

Well, since you asked me I will tell you. First off do we know for sure this Blonde Hair is missing? Some say yes, and some say no, so I say I don't know. So I think we need to find this out for sure first, don't you think? Next, if it is not found, it was never evidence to begin with, so therefore not crucial. In my country, and in order to be considered evidence, it has to be admissible in a Court of Law.

It has already been reported, including here a couple of times someplace with a Link, that the Blonde Hair was tested for DNA but none was found. They could not even determine the true Hair Color. So that hair at this time would have been useless as far as DNA Evidence is concerned. I am sure they must have found many Cigarette Butts on the beach and tested them for DNA which did not match. Do you want to call that Crucial evidence? Or how about the 200 DNA tested they took off the people on the Island as well. Is this crucial evidence to? Should they keep all this stuff when it proves nothing? I don't know.

As to the blunders on the crime scene, they like to compare this to and FBI Investigation in a New York City, or Scotland Yard in London. But what people tend to forget here is that this double murder and rape took place on a small island, with a population of about 2,000 people, which I believed housed a total of 5 Police Men. It is remote and it takes time for professionals to get there.

How much training do you think those Police Men have on securing a crime scene on the Island, or if they did how long ago? How many Double Murders and Rapes do you think they handle in a year on that Island? The first highest ranking Police Man was on the stand and he said he only investigated 2 rape cases in his life, but no murderers where involved in them.

I am not trying to change anyone mind here, Personally I could care less. I am just trying to shed some light on this case for people who are open minded, and not people who bury their head in the sand when they see something they don't want to. If you do not agree, then fine. This not a Court Battle where I have to prove any thing to you, or you to me.

My only objective here is to try and do anything possible to advance this case, if that means riling someone up with those questions I'm fine with that. I'm not trying to antagonize you, I haven't called you a clown, so far.

The best way to get justice at this point is to make this as big as can be. We want I known that were paying attention. Asking these tough questions and combing through anything available that may be helpful. I'm not here to impress anyone, make any friends, I'm here to discuss the injustice of this case. And I don't claim my belief is anything other than speculation. I do have some strong opinions and that won't change.

Just to be blunt, it seems to me you're more of a police apologist then a Mon and family apologist, and I think your belief in the RTP is misplaced.. But I have no malice for anyone, other than the killers of David and Hannah. And I hope they, whoever they are, suffer a much worse death.

[Lorn]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

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Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

But none of the late Ms. Witheridge's friends apparently have said that they saw her with any Thai guy that evening although Mr. Terry and others have offered reasons why she could have been but nobody would have noticed. But they did notice here as above with the late Mr. Miller.

No it doesn't. If he had been lying down (on her as you and the RTP insinuate) when one of the boy struck him with the hoe, then how could there have been none of his blood (and dna) on her clothes and body?

[JLCrab]

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

Your opinion, okay. I'm broad shouldered enough to take a hit. Any review, bad or good, helps sales. My crime novels are on Kindle - there's 6 of them (two of which are based in Thailand, three of which are based in the US, and one in England). Enjoy.

I looked at them briefly -- if they contain as much psycho babble as you post on here, I think I'll stick with Raymond Chandler.

[Tony121]

I feel that Mon and NS have as much right to defend themselves as the B2 do don't you ?

Is everyone innocent proven to guilty ?

And I am no RTP apologist we only need to see what went on with them under Thaksins control, and most people agree they need to reform,

[Lorn]

This timing is crucial evidence (if substantiated). Allowing a leeway from friends who presumably were wired or tired, let's suppose they left at 3.30 am. Not unreasonable? By the time they meandered to the beach, settled down to talk or otherwise, it could be 4 a.m or even later.

Who would be awake at that time?

Possibly those still at the club/bar, and maybe a few insomniacs, or even early starters like fishermen and menial cleaners. The B2 were left to their own devices at 1 am when their friend took a third bottle of beer to them. Would they still be on the beach three hours later at 4 a.m, knowing that they had to work the next day, no more beer, and nothing happening? Possibly, but unlikely.

A witness stated he found the B2 ASLEEP in their beds at 5 a.m. Given a run back to their abode, that leaves a maximum window of less than ONE hour to commit rape and murder.

Not impossible, but unlikely that any stable person would be able to sleep following that horrific crime. What can be discounted is that they were high on Ya Ba, which is a keep-awake drug.

Another example of reasonable doubt?

tony responds: -

The crime happens at 4.am so you can discount Yaba which is a keep awake drug ? do you read the crap you write ?

A witness finding them in Bed at 5am who goes and checks on there friends at 5 in the morning ? if they were asleep how did the witness get in the room ?

It's factual, Tony. Read up on it. And that's being polite.

One would assume that someone who lives somewhere has the means to get into it without requiring their roommates to open the door.

[stephenterry]

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

Your opinion, okay. I'm broad shouldered enough to take a hit. Any review, bad or good, helps sales. My crime novels are on Kindle - there's 6 of them (two of which are based in Thailand, three of which are based in the US, and one in England). Enjoy.

I looked at them briefly -- if they contain as much psycho babble as you post on here, I think I'll stick with Raymond Chandler.

I take it you haven't read any, then, but can still have an opinion. Horses for courses. Live in the past. Up to you. Your choice. Read some Robert B Parker to bring yourself up to date.

And chill.

[minikev]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

This is also the first time I have seen anything to suggest they were together other than police statements. If they were there should be footage of them walking together.

[JLCrab]

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

Your opinion, okay. I'm broad shouldered enough to take a hit. Any review, bad or good, helps sales. My crime novels are on Kindle - there's 6 of them (two of which are based in Thailand, three of which are based in the US, and one in England). Enjoy.

I looked at them briefly -- if they contain as much psycho babble as you post on here, I think I'll stick with Raymond Chandler.

I take it you haven't read any, then, but can still have an opinion. Horses for courses. Live in the past. Up to you. Your choice. Read some Robert B Parker to bring yourself up to date.

And chill.

I was quite chilled until you made that ridiculous comment about dying to rip apart whatever argument I have. I don't read fiction these days -- the real world I try to live in through a US based NGO dealing in world affairs requires enough reading so that my eyes finally give out at the end of the day.

[stephenterry]

I feel that Mon and NS have as much right to defend themselves as the B2 do don't you ?

Is everyone innocent proven to guilty ?

And I am no RTP apologist we only need to see what went on with them under Thaksins control, and most people agree they need to reform,

One post from you I agree with. If they were on trial, I would have the same opinion. But they are not, the B2 are, and the case against the latter is frankly skewed at best, and false at worse. That's what the majority of posters on here are incensed about. The B2 are not being given the right to defend themselves, because their team is being thwarted at every stage by the RTP.

Call that justice? I don't.

[stephenterry]

I take it you haven't read any, then, but can still have an opinion. Horses for courses. Live in the past. Up to you. Your choice. Read some Robert B Parker to bring yourself up to date.

And chill.

I was quite chilled until you made that ridiculous comment about dying to rip apart whatever argument I have. I don't read fiction these days -- the real world I try to live in through a US based NGO dealing in world affairs requires enough reading so that my eyes finally give out at the end of the day.

In England, we would call it taking the piss. It's humour, not antagonism. But seriously, JLC, you should have a life outside work.

[thailandchilli]

I feel that Mon and NS have as much right to defend themselves as the B2 do don't you ?

Is everyone innocent proven to guilty ?

And I am no RTP apologist we only need to see what went on with them under Thaksins control, and most people agree they need to reform,

Mon and NS are not in shackles. The B2 are and the evidence and whole investigative procedure that put them there is in serious doubt, not just on TV but everywhere else in the world who are watching the farce.

[boomerangutang]

No just giving questions that none of the conspiracy theorist tinfoilers can give reasonable answers too,

If there's a conspiracy, it's by Thai top brass, and their plans are coming apart at the seams like Hardy trying to force on Laurel's trousers. Tony121, do yourself and all of us a favor. Two suggestions:

A. read up as much as possible on what's been going on, including announcements, with this case, for the past 10+ months.

B. Try to stay on course, and not go running off on a dozen tangents (like possible meth use). There are already plenty of issues to look at, we don't need to further confuse the search for truth by adding 100 what-ifs, could-haves, etc. Or maybe that's your plan: to confuse things?

"No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that."

You haven't ripped anything apart yet -- you're just a hack fiction writer.

Your opinion, okay. I'm broad shouldered enough to take a hit. Any review, bad or good, helps sales. My crime novels are on Kindle - there's 6 of them (two of which are based in Thailand, three of which are based in the US, and one in England). Enjoy.

I looked at them briefly -- if they contain as much psycho babble as you post on here, I think I'll stick with Raymond Chandler.

Stephen, he also called me a hack fiction writer (I mentioned to Crab in a PS that I write books). I don't need to tell you ST, that Crab has weird proclivities. Maybe a fiction writer tipped him out of the cradle when he was a baby.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. My life doesn't need advice from you.

The reason you guys post so much on here is that at least you know that at least somebody will be reading your stuff.

[Darkknight666]

"Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon."

Can the defense team call Commander Panya I wonder? Seems an explanation from him may be crucial. If he stands by what he said.

[Happy Grumpy]

What were the last known/witnessed movements of each victim? I havent heard much info on testimony from the friends with them that night.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Likely that the local, protected mafia thugs had their egos and 'face' hurt by one or both of them at some point before hand, which fueled the need for revenge, kept their distance until alone at the beach, then time to show them who's boss... savage Thai style. Must win, must win, must win and destroy the loser to be the ultimate victor, especially when one is from a ruling Thai mafia family and will be protected from all.

Sickening.

[Happy Grumpy]

"Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon."

Can the defense team call Commander Panya I wonder? Seems an explanation from him may be crucial. If he stands by what he said.

Oh I'm sure he would be up there saying how mistaken he was, at this stage.

Not likely he wants his career to be finished and life possibly ended for doing so.

[Tony121]

I feel that Mon and NS have as much right to defend themselves as the B2 do don't you ?

Is everyone innocent proven to guilty ?

And I am no RTP apologist we only need to see what went on with them under Thaksins control, and most people agree they need to reform,

One post from you I agree with. If they were on trial, I would have the same opinion. But they are not, the B2 are, and the case against the latter is frankly skewed at best, and false at worse. That's what the majority of posters on here are incensed about. The B2 are not being given the right to defend themselves, because their team is being thwarted at every stage by the RTP.

Call that justice? I don't.

As I have said before I will judge the case when it ends or collapses,

The police have let observers from the UK and the Burmese embassy observe the case the Family of the victims also believe think they have the right people.

and i put my trust more in all the above groups than some tinfoilers.

[stephenterry]

Thank you. My life doesn't need advice from you.

The reason you guys post so much on here is that at least you know that at least somebody will be reading your stuff.

First sentence - no offence meant.

Second sentence - up to them, I post my opinions - and I will defend them. That's normal on a forum, isn't it?.

[thailandchilli]

"Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon."

Can the defense team call Commander Panya I wonder? Seems an explanation from him may be crucial. If he stands by what he said.

On of my bookmarked quotes by the RTP in the early parts of the investigation is this one, as it could be so significant to the whole case.

Meanwhile, Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

[Happy Grumpy]

Personally, I doubt very much that NS would take on David Miller or that he would use the hoe on Hannah. Having said that, we have established that there are others (workers, bodyguards etc) that does the bidding of their masters.

I would be in no way surprised if NS had felt rejected etc. from her, perhaps a slight (in Western culture) warning off from David, then with 2 of his bouncers high on something followed them to the beach and went about their business, which got a bit out of hand in a drug and anger fueled rage.

I would be a lot more surprised to learn that the B2 had anything at all to do with it.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. My life doesn't need advice from you.

The reason you guys post so much on here is that at least you know that at least somebody will be reading your stuff.

First sentence - no offence meant.

Second sentence - up to them, I post my opinions - and I will defend them. That's normal on a forum, isn't it?.

I have many times disagree with your opinions but have also frequently referred to you as Mr. Terry as a sign of respect. And my posts, whatever their number, are usually short.

[minikev]

Thank you. My life doesn't need advice from you.

The reason you guys post so much on here is that at least you know that at least somebody will be reading your stuff.

Sorry but that made me laugh.

JLC has kept a level head for all of the last 10 months of posting. Not swayed one way or another simply following the facts. Also offering some good informative posts. He hasn't sat in either camp.

Many of us here have let our anger lead us away from what is in front of our eyes. That mixed with a filtered amount of knowledge can be dangerous.

Lets wait and see what the second part of the trial brings.

[Slip]

Thank you. My life doesn't need advice from you.

The reason you guys post so much on here is that at least you know that at least somebody will be reading your stuff.

Boom. And then there were two. (Unless JD comes back).

[thailandchilli]

I feel that Mon and NS have as much right to defend themselves as the B2 do don't you ?

Is everyone innocent proven to guilty ?

And I am no RTP apologist we only need to see what went on with them under Thaksins control, and most people agree they need to reform,

One post from you I agree with. If they were on trial, I would have the same opinion. But they are not, the B2 are, and the case against the latter is frankly skewed at best, and false at worse. That's what the majority of posters on here are incensed about. The B2 are not being given the right to defend themselves, because their team is being thwarted at every stage by the RTP.

Call that justice? I don't.

As I have said before I will judge the case when it ends or collapses,

The police have let observers from the UK and the Burmese embassy observe the case the Family of the victims also believe think they have the right people.

and i put my trust more in all the above groups than some tinfoilers.

Tony, after the families had made their statements based on the select pieces of evidence that the RTP had shown the UK police, I take it you do know what the UK police said about the investigation they were allowed to observe in a report on BBC Radio 2 yes? Its been linked a couple of times a few dozen pages back.

[stephenterry]

"Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon."

Can the defense team call Commander Panya I wonder? Seems an explanation from him may be crucial. If he stands by what he said.

On of my bookmarked quotes by the RTP in the early parts of the investigation is this one, as it could be so significant to the whole case.

Meanwhile, Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

Old hat, but well worth repeating for the likes of Tony, who has more faith in the RTP's version of events.