Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[upena]

How many Thai EOD soldiers died because of her recommendations to buy the GT200 - no one in Thailand has gone to jail for that huge waste of money and possibly human lives.

[sambum]

The jury is out for me on the involvement of NS. The only thing I know for sure regarding him is that he was chatting to his facebook pals about it later on the 15th.

Is it possible that all this BS could be the result of the PM saying No Thai would do this? If it turned out to be a Thai would this be loss of face for the biggest man in Thailand? Twas a silly statement to make because Thais have done plenty of horrific crimes previously, even not dissimilar to this one.

It is surprising (or should I really say not suprising) that there is not better quality footage of the running man, maybe from some of the other working cameras such as those that captured the victims final movements that night. The build and certainly that peculiar arm movement are definitely similar.

So much rumour around all aspects of NS 'alibi' and right from the off on day one he was being heavily pointed to by many people. Why did his name come up so quickly if he wasn't there? Even his Father said initially that he had had to rush back to university didn't he before the story changed? The speedboat story came on day one too and based on what I can understand of yesterday's testimony it sounds like yes there was a speedboat leaving the beach shortly after the murders!

I'm surprised that nothing concrete has yet surfaced if he was on the island. AC bar withholding all cctv from inside is very iffy though. 2 main reasons I can think of are:

1. something happened re Hannah and/or David in there

2. NS would have been on the video

Could the police not have demanded this in Thailand? If so and if they didn't then that screams cover up (of something).

From what I understand a lot of bars/resorts have cctv pointing to the beach yet the police have not seen any footage from any of these (allegedly), is that correct?. Honestly it feels like a bunch of 5 year olds could have done a better job!

A few things, first Prayuth never made that comment about "No Thai could do this", so if that is your basis to think there is pressure to save his face by nailing two Burmese scapegoats perhaps you should reevaluate things.

As for Nomsod and his "peculiar" arm movement, people are comparing when the man on the CCTV footage in Koh Tao reaches across his chest to, I suppose, scratch the other side of his chest or opposite arm with Nomsod on the CCTV footage at the lobby reaching up to brush his hair. I find it amazingly intellectually dishonest to see that some people are using two frames from each video, showing the arms bending up as proof that they show the same unusual walking style and therefore they should be the same person.

Lastly, bars are supposed by law to close at 2AM, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd stop CCTV recordings after that time as a matter of course, or altogether to avoid filming other questionable activities going on in the premises.

Quite correct. The PM did not say "no Thai could do this."

It was the senior investigating police officer.

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person. No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

Regardless of who said it, it is a thoroughly repugnant remark (even more so if one considers that less than 48 hours after the crime, the lead cop has already dismissed the culpability of his countrymen based on racial bias? Nationalism? Personal bias?) and come to his own conclusions before the investigation has really even started.

You are correct it was the police who said it, my mistake, I apologise.

So if there is a cover up it is not to save PM's face.

Well done! At last, someone man enough to own up when they have made a mistake - not like some of the RTP apologists on here (one in particular) who makes mistakes, refuses to admit it, and just diverts the topic to some other point entirely.)

[Heisenbergg]

It has been shared numerous times on these threads only for people to come back and act as though this was some quick transfer despite it being announced well in advance and despite the fact October is when they typically do transfers. What is the real joke though is people are acting like he was something special when he was the one who cleared Mon and stated he wasn't on the island.

Mon WAS on the island. No only on it, all over it. I think you mean Nomsod was not on the island? We shall see.

Thanks, had the names confused. Bottom line under him they cleared both and the family as well as Sean.

They didn't clear Sean, they got him off the island A.S.A.P. Not really the same as being cleared is it ? well if it fits your conspiracy then it probably is.

And getting names mixed up in a double murder investigation, tut tut.

Then again as with a few other you are not really bothered about those who got killed, just trying to cover the killers.

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

So says you, JTJ. Doesn't change the fact that he implicated Mon and Nomsod and claimed to have evidence that directly linked them, evidence convincing enough that he declared the two tied to the crime by evidence he personally looked at. Do you think he would do that with no credible evidence? I don't, he knows who runs KT.... This was before damage control kicked in. After that anything he says will be influenced by whoever is pulling the strings.

They were both cleared by him along with numerous other people he and his team named as suspects including the farang friends (one who had blood on his pants but then didn't). He publicly cleared all the people he publicly names as being suspects or involved. Interesting too is he had no problem publicly naming the headsman as family as suspects yet the whole conspiracy theory is based on the fact this family wields so much power and police fear them. The police had no problem at all causing all these public accusations and people (like you) are still going back to the MANY inaccurate or since corrected statements and info from early in the case and pretending there are no updates.

Are you aware of the Headman's connections?Panya was working this case honesty because the public expect it.. The island is highly dependent on tourism and people wanted this crime solved. You keep saying the police couldn't have this kind of influence while conveniently leaving out the fact that there are other bigger influences in this case behind the scenes. When the boss tells you you're moved to a new post mid investigation it's a sign the boss doesn't trust the cop... Why wouldn't the boss trust Panya? But of course, he was moved to someplace else in 2010, this transfer was planned ages ago!

Give it a rest man..

[phuketrichard]

Cant be bothered with going back hundreds of pages but did any of u all view sonti's video interview back in Nov?

this has been a farce since day one

click at the bottom CC for captions

[Heisenbergg]

Cant be bothered with going back hundreds of pages but did any of u all view sonti's video interview back in Nov?

this has been a farce since day one

click at the bottom CC for captions

It has been posted a few times but I'm sure the people who came in late May benefit from watching it. Wonder if JTJ can explain this?

[chillywilly]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

[Heisenbergg]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Welcome, New Guy.

Great points across the board. I don't see how they do it either. It is good to see new people come in and instantly get it.

[Fat Haggis]

How many Thai EOD soldiers died because of her recommendations to buy the GT200 - no one in Thailand has gone to jail for that huge waste of money and possibly human lives.

None!!! As EOD wouldn't use these for defusing bombs, and if they did, don't blame Porntip, blame their own SOPS

EOD are called in AFTER a device has been found, and Thai EOD teams are pretty well equipped for disarming such devices.

There devices are stil used in Iraq today, despite the fact it's well known they don't work, they were designed to detect explosives in vehicles and to a degree on people, they have a VERY LIMITED RANGE and any vehicle that gets close enough to be detected is close enough to destroy that checkpoint period.

[mike313]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

I'm new to this forum, and entirely impartial, ie not living in Thailand. Just want to respond to the above post, if there is nothing corrupt occuring then why is there CCTV footage for the entrance of the AC bar up until 2am when David enters, but no CCTV footage after this time, am I correct on this assumption. Also Hannah is said to enter the bar with friends at 12.30am in one report and in another that she entered the bar alone at 1am. Which is true? Also if she did enter the bar with friends, why have we not heard any statements from them regarding the argument in the AC bar. If you were actually in the bar on the night, did you see Hannah there with friends after 1am? And what time did you leave the bar, you may not have been around when the argument occured, or when Dodo was present.

[007cableguy]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Could not have worded that better myself!....... Spot on!

[mike313]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

I'm new to this forum, and entirely impartial, ie not living in Thailand. Just want to respond to the above post, if there is nothing corrupt occuring then why is there CCTV footage for the entrance of the AC bar up until 2am when David enters, but no CCTV footage after this time, am I correct on this assumption. Also Hannah is said to enter the bar with friends at 12.30am in one report and in another that she entered the bar alone at 1am. Which is true? Also if she did enter the bar with friends, why have we not heard any statements from them regarding the argument in the AC bar. If you were actually in the bar on the night, did you see Hannah there with friends after 1am? And what time did you leave the bar, you may not have been around when the argument occured, or when Dodo was present.

Just one other theory to the B2 being guilty is that they could be in the employ of the headmans son in more than just one capacity. They could have been party to the crime along with Dodo, as I don't think this crime was committed by just two people, or one (Dodo)

[sanuk711]

Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand to give her the title awarded to her by the queen--& if there are any discrepancies in the police forensic case---they indeed should worried..Taksin had her removed after she brought down findings that the police under his "shoot drug dealers" policy were by an large shooting innocent people that they may have held a grudge against. Yingluk also terminated her contract as soon as she could & removed her from the office in May 2013

--When she gave a press report after the Tsunami in Phuket 2005 she complained that the police's identification centre would have more success identifying the farang corpses if their jewellery (inscribed wedding rings etc) were not systematically stolen by the people (police) guarding the freezer containers.

Pornthip's autobiography, which details her life and most prominent cases, has been translated into English and available through Amazon.

[Lancashireman]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Could not have worded that better myself!....... Spot on!

Ditto. Though I doubt they are 'super-trolls'. Just easily excited adults with absolutely nothing else to do but speculate...or they are the same person, and/or are involved in the crime in a more sinister way...

[Fat Haggis]

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

Wadan. If you want to cajole me for the following then feel free to do? My opinion, because of the way you write, is that you are a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Are you even a resident in Thailand? Given the manner in which you write it suggests not but then you maybe you are? Regardless, can you explain the need for such an ingracious post? I bet you can't. For someone to remain anonymous, come onto an open forum and post in such a denigrating manner, is, I believe, highly offensive, not only to me but to any Thai or anyone who, in any way, is in a relationship, has a friendship or an association with a Thai and has accepted this country as their homeland.

Your last sentence is extremely offensive and clearly that of a racist. And I do not call you this lightly. You have gone completely off topic in parts of you post and I wonder what the mods are doing in allowing this kind of garbage to remain? If you want to criticise certain parties, as you have, fine, as long as you can sustain that criticism but to openly decry all and sundry, then Thai society, in general, is totally irresponsible and highlights the flaws in one's character.

As for ianf, his response is an open book to his thoughts and to congratulate you on you piece of diatribe, he should also be ashamed but then he is obviously tarred with the same brush and has the same illegitimate thoughts as you proffer of a nation of some 68 million people. I would dare to say he doesn't even reside here either. Why are you two launching such a disgusting salvo on only one country? I can think of many other nations, who deserve more but then that would not suit the agenda you two seem to have. Will you be prepared to answer anything? If you do, it will make for some very interesting reading.

I bet there are 100's of Farrang men who have lost every penny they have to a Thai woman who told them they loved them then left them for dead after taking every last penny. And thousands of men in jail for crimes they didn't commit but couldn't pay their way out of it unlike the persons who committed the crimes, who would love to punch you straight between the eyes.

I won't be drawn into a comprehensive battle of words with you or those of your kind because you can't unless you resort to the attack dog style you have posted but I will respond just this once. You can flame as much as you like, if it gives you your jollies.

Happiness is, but obviously you wouldn't know what that is, would you? If they have lost all, more fool them, do their homework first and stop thinking with what is between their legs. For everyone that has experienced failure, there are many more who have experienced success, me being one of them. You sound like you have a problem, first with words, now resorting to posting an insightful response suggesting violence.

A violent man I would suggest, one who cannot control his temper and wants to carry on about something that it appears you have had experience with. A failure are we? You know what can happen if some gets hit right between the eyes, it is well documented. Your response clearly highlights the type of person you are and one clearly, that needs some help because he has no way with words. I see that you want to carry on like a child because an adult does not act in such a manner. So good luck to you.

An adult wouldn't be mocking people who have lost all their money or their homes to Thai scams either.

you have a very ARROGANT LOOK AT ME I'm awesome attitude, again, adults wouldn't belittle others, you're condescending manner, not just here, but in many others posts throughout TV is well worth of the OP's comments..

If the cap fits!!

[balo]

Can all speculations end here until the court start up again next month ?

We do not need another 100 pages , the repeat button is on daily. We all have our views and there's no need for some of the posters here (you know who you are) to repeat this over and over again. It wont help the case, some of you guys seem to spend your time more in front of your laptop and TV than outside. I am concerned about your health. .................

Says Balo, with 5,000+ posts to my modest (but way more intelligent) 60-odd!

Don't be ridicoluus, I post mostly in the Pattaya forum where I belong. I have lived in Thailand for 5 years and follow this case with interest as I do with others. But I am not posting several times daily in this thread. Some of you guys seems to not have a life outide of this thread.

[balo]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Good points, but you are not the judge, we do not know the truth and some of us will not support either side of this tragic case , instead of taking side we want the truth, its too easy to say B2 didnt do it. Look at it from both sides of the coin.

Is there a chance they are guilty ? Yes. Is there a chance they are not guilty but involved somehow ? Yes. Is there a chance that the headmans family is involved and guily ? Yes. Is there a chance that the killer is some random guy that happened to be there that night? Yes.

[HughJass]

an interesting report from the UK Daily Telegraph from 26/9/14

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11122966/Police-quiz-Thai-footballers-over-murder-of-British-backpackers.html

Police investigating the murders of two British backpackers have questioned and taken DNA samples from a group of Thai footballers who threw a late-night party at the notorious beachfront nightclub where the victims spent their final hours, it can be revealed.

David Miller, 24, from Jersey, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, were murdered on the Thai island of Koh Tao in the early hours of September 15, shortly after leaving the AC Bar, an infamous nightspot known for drunken brawls and alleged drug use by some of its clientele.

Police claim to have already taken DNA samples from the AC Bar's owner as well as more than two-dozen of his staff.

[Transporter]

I have searched and searched and I cant find anyone who thinks the B2 are guilty of this crime. Based on this can some please explain exactly why they are on trial at all. The only evidence appears to be null and void due to the way it was obtained so once again why are they on trial. The CCTV evidence of the killer running shows a different man to either of the B2 due to his height so for the last time please can someone explain why these two are on trial?

Does anyone think they are guilty?

[Emster23]

Regarding Pornthips part in the trial: "add an additional day to the trial". I don't quite get it regarding these time limits. This is not a World Cup final. Both sides should have as long as it takes to make their respective cases, and who could know in advance how long that will be?

Regarding Pornthips credibility and independence: I was here for Tsunami and saw interviews with her on TV. She was one of the few I have seen here in 15 years that actually spoke her mind, and called BS when she saw it. If I needed an expert on my side, she would be my first choice here.

Bomb thing.... I have no idea how that went down, and why a forensic scientist would ever look at one of those boxes anyway. Who knows what machinations go around behind closed doors? As pointed out, Thais weren't the only one that bought these pieces of junk.

If President of USA (with help from inner circle) can sell invasion of Iraq based on lies, distortions and intimidation of intelligence agencies, think how much easier it would be to do here... often trust is misplaced, which is why we look at the evidence very very closely.

[stephenterry]

Come on guys, give it a rest.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Seems like Goldbuggy can't answer the more objective posts with links to an article that categorizes the Police incompetence, screw-ups and lies. Only off the wall posts speculating about the murder rate in Burma, and his diverse history of working with "red, yellow and black" peoples.

I am not a racist- I have a black friend-, but...

I personally prefer the taupe, chartreuse, and magenta races.

[atyclb]

I always shake my head when I read something like "These Poor Boys!" "Take a look at them!" "They couldn't hurt a flea"!

Now let me point out a "Fact" to you all.

Myanmar, and where these so called "Innocent Boys" come from, has the Highest Murder Rate in all of Asia. All of Asia! The Myanmar Murder Rate is triple what it is in Thailand. Meaning by population for every 1 Murder in Thailand, there are 3 Murders in Myanmar. Thailand's Murder Rate is only slightly higher than the USA. But no small wonder they look at Myanmar Workers first when their is a murder committed nearby.

So could they commit murder? You bet your bottom dollar they could! And there own Government Statistics proves that and they can back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

These deaths are predominantly because of internal civil wars ... just as the high numbers in Thailand are due to the unrest in the south.

It is not a war just because you are wearing a uniform and then rape and murder innocent civilians. It is a War Crime!

What you're doing is making a very dubious claim of guilt by association, in fact as someone else pointed out there's no evidence that exposure to violence makes a person more likely to commit violence. If it were so WWII for instance would have been followed very soon by a pandemic of violence, or the majority of refugees from war-torn nations would turn out to be killers and rapists.

Sorry but your contention is completely unsupported by evidence.

there was a case in japan in which a person decapitated another person. imagine the defense arguing the alleged perp is innocent because japan has such a low murder rate ??? holy mother of absurdity

while i do not agree with using a countries murder rate to infer guilt (a rather bizarre argument) even for TV, amongst the psychology psychiatric practitioner community there absolutely is a significant correlation to violence-abuse experienced as children and their levels towards others as adults.

[maoro2013]

I am almost certain that the initial DNA tests were not performed in Thailand I think Singapore The story seems to change as it goes along

[boomerangutang]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Sorry Thailandchilli Im not sure if the pic you posted claiming to be AC bar will be included in my repost. But the the picture you posted is of Bar Next 2 not AC Bar, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. As far as Im aware AC bar has cameras at the main entrance but not inside or at the back entrance & allegations of a camera at the rear turned out to be a light. It may be the case that cctv footage simply doesn't exist & is not being hidden. As someone who was in AC bar that night but didn't see Dodo there or any altercation I'm not so convinced about the cover up theory. But if anyone can positively ID him being there & having an argument then I will stand corrected

Interesting. You're the first person to pipe up and say they were at the AC bar that night. Not even Mon has admitted that. What times were you there, and do you recall seeing anything unusual? Was Sean there? If you saw Hannah and/or David in or around there, did you notice anything unusual about them? Were they a romantic couple together or not? I'm curious. And thanks for the heads up about CCTV cameras. I had heard earlier that Mon was buddies with a local guy who set up CCTV cameras in places on the island, so it was assumed there were more than one in such a popular bar.

You day you didn't see Nomsod in the bar, but did you know Nomsod (enough to recognize him) before/during that night? Did you see him anywhere on the island during that weekend? What about Mon - any odd actions by him? ....or anyone else - that night or next morning?

Also, when did you first hear of the crime, and what was your and others' thoughts at the time about who did it? Any other insights would be appreciated.

[eliotness]

The DNA evidence is totally irrelevant now. I'm sure there is no chain of evidence procedure in place to maintain its integrity. It could have been corrupted, doctored to give the result they want, or replaced with the local dog's! A pity, because if used correctly maybe there could have been a fair verdict in this case, with the guilty parties brought to justice.

The DNA evidence is far from irrelevant. Yesterday in court it was stated that the DNA from the 2 Burmese matched the semen found inside Hanna.

If a new sample of DNA from the Burmese matches the semen DNA then this would be pretty damning evidence imo.

If the samples do not match then they are off Scot free I'd guess.

I have posted questions previously about whether the DNA of the accused was obtained from semen, inside or outside Hannah. Despite over 180 pages I still have had no confirmation that was the case. Also I still haven't heard about any DNA found under her fingernails. I think that there has been no mention of this to be weird to say the least. I also, after some research, suggested that mixed semen was more complicated to analyse, but despite this the analysis was done in record time. If the RTP claim ISO 9001 certification then they need to be stripped of it as a matter of urgency and the organisation that awarded that certification should be banned from further awards.

[chillywilly]

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Good points, but you are not the judge, we do not know the truth and some of us will not support either side of this tragic case , instead of taking side we want the truth, its too easy to say B2 didnt do it. Look at it from both sides of the coin.

Is there a chance they are guilty ? Yes. Is there a chance they are not guilty but involved somehow ? Yes. Is there a chance that the headmans family is involved and guily ? Yes. Is there a chance that the killer is some random guy that happened to be there that night? Yes.

Don't know where you are going with this, but the remark "you are not the judge" to me sounds like brainless babble. If you read my words correctly, I was not judging anyone being guilty or not, all I said was that it is absolutely insane to believe the official story after such an unimaginable amount of cockups. Is there the chance that the victims had alien contact that very tragic night? Yes! Could have "Swamp Man" risen out of the sea, killed them to then return to the Mariana Trench? Yes! There are two sides of a coin yes - and they are "Heads - RTP and local mafia people trying to save their behind and not lose face" and "Tails - by far the biggest cockup ever in Thai crime history". That's all I have to say to your "you are not the judge" remark.

[loonodingle]

It definatly wasn't a single blow as someone previously on this thread had a mock up showing the numerous injuries on the various parts of his body. It sure wasn't a single blow. In fact having used a hoe on very many occasions very similar to the one shown in the scene of crime pictures I personally have absolutely no idea how the blunt end of said hoe could possibly cause injuries as indicated. I'm looking forward to hearing the leadingThai pathologist but more so the UK guy comment on both victims injuries as there seems to be doubts about both.

I think we all need to wait for the disclosures from the UK Forensic autopsy.

I suspect this will be the game changer.

While I think we would all like this released and used in the trial, I don't think it will ever be released. To my knowledge it was not part of any criminal investigation. Not sure of laws in UK but can't see any reason why they would make this public unless the family agrees to it.

One can certainly make some logical assumptions due to the UK Police who looked into the case and visited Thailand. One would assume they would have also looked at the UK autopsy before they even went to Thailand to make sure it matched with what Thai police shared with them. Based on the family's statements after the UK police finished looking into the merits of the case, one would have to assume the police saw nothing out of line.

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

The family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller’s family said.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

Well JTJ perhaps you should google some things then as u suggest to other posters.

Lets put a couple of things straight.

The family has no say as to whether the forensic autopsy results are released to the defence. Having spoken to the coroners Mark who is dealing with the case I think its pretty safe to say that the criteria has been met for disclosure of all the facts found. This will include xray results. A full forensic Autopsy will have taken place.

I do not know what they say and await with baited breath.

The 2 family's will without doubt regret their statements made on false information provided to them as its clear there hasn't been a thorough investigation as was suggested. Well clear to me maybe you have your head in the clouds.

[dfp]

Khun Porntip's book "The Dead Do Talk" is very interesting. Unfortunately it appears that she has been "handcuffed" that is out of fear she could not tell about her encounters with the police force.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

I fully agree wth you. She is also on probation (medical board) due to the mishandling of an earlier case.

[arrowsdawdle]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

This would appear to be a face-saving strategy since the headman's brother is now arrested and the son is being pursued. Having Pornthip discover the discrepancies and bring them to light is far better than foreigners doing it.