Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[minikev]

Another poster raised the point about their comradeship and dignity since their arrest. It seems no other prisoner has over heard them quarrelling or telling each other they should not have gone so far etc. Its got me baffled. If Sean could get off the island why could the Burmese not get off the same way, they must have known the Thai authorities would punish them for the murders.

Wasn't one of them arrested after leaving the island or was that the 3rd friend who is a witness against them?

The third friend who is a witness against them, where did you pull that one from? I'm assuming you referring to Maung Maung

No idea what you are asking.

3 Friends on the beach. 2 suspects / defendants and 1 Witness.

Fairly straight forward.

Yes pretty straight forward till you used the word (against) From what we know so far he was a witness to them sat on a log drinking and then left. Then he was a witness to them sleeping soundly in their room a few hours later.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As for the running guy on the video ... have prosecutors stated it was one of these two? Has either side during the trial stated that person was involved? I am not being sarcastic but don;t know. I thought I heard police played the video in court without much comment being reported. Made me wonder if it might be the friend who is now a prosecution witness but have no clue how or if the running person even fits into the crime ... actually wasn't it reported it was an individual running back and forth between a Burmese camp? Seem to recall something like that being stated in the last couple weeks in the press but again not sure and thought no identity was given.

JTJ, you really stepped in to it, this time. "...running back and forth to the Burmese camp" Gimme a f'in break. That statement was obviously subjective drivel mentioned by RTP. If the judge was an impressionable 5 year old, it might get some credence, but he's not. The CCTV shows a thin young man (not a 45 yr old like Mon), a foot taller than either of the suspects, with mannerisms, body type and gait which perfectly match Nomsod. To say he's going to the Burmese camp is no more bankable than saying he's going anywhere else on the small island.

it was reported that police in court claimed running man was one of the accused, how many times do I have to repeat this ? and equally it is very obviously not one of the accused for a number of reasons which I am not going to repeat over and over, wrong clothes - no wristbands - taller, these are facts and very obvious observations to anyone with an IQ slightly higher than a buffalo

Any link to that report? I didn't read that in the articles I have read nor in the thread here ... just have seen people speculate that is why they showed it. I certainly may have missed that report but if as you say it is "very obviously not one of the accused " then makes no sense why the prosecutors would say it was when such a thing would not help their case but damage it.

Again, would be interested in reading that report but not finding it using Google.

Boomer -- Only in your imagination (that you seem to use often and then report as fact) did I step in anything. I simply asked a question about something I thought I remembered being reported. I actually have not seen anything reported that makes this unknown person relevant to the case but would be very interested if the prosecutors or defense is making it relevant such as Smedly is claiming.

[thailandchilli]

Wasn't one of them arrested after leaving the island or was that the 3rd friend who is a witness against them?

The third friend who is a witness against them, where did you pull that one from? I'm assuming you referring to Maung Maung

No idea what you are asking.

3 Friends on the beach. 2 suspects / defendants and 1 Witness.

Fairly straight forward.

Yes pretty straight forward till you used the word (against) From what we know so far he was a witness to them sat on a log drinking and then left. Then he was a witness to them sleeping soundly in their room a few hours later.

He's run out of straws left to clutch to, he'll be back posting the families statement again soon

[JohnThailandJohn]

Wasn't one of them arrested after leaving the island or was that the 3rd friend who is a witness against them?

The third friend who is a witness against them, where did you pull that one from? I'm assuming you referring to Maung Maung

No idea what you are asking.

3 Friends on the beach. 2 suspects / defendants and 1 Witness.

Fairly straight forward.

Yes pretty straight forward till you used the word (against) From what we know so far he was a witness to them sat on a log drinking and then left. Then he was a witness to them sleeping soundly in their room a few hours later.

If it is a Prosecution witness then it would be a witness against them vs. for them that is all that was meant ... regardless of if it turns out helping them or hurting them or does nothing. Based on what I am seeing now sounds like he may not be called in this trial but rather his testimony given earlier may have been submitted. I didn't realize he was not longer being housed by police as a witness. Somebody here said he is back home but also saw that he was being housed in Bangkok by his embassy but this was months ago.

Edited July 29, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[StealthEnergiser]

As for the running guy on the video ... have prosecutors stated it was one of these two? Has either side during the trial stated that person was involved? I am not being sarcastic but don;t know. I thought I heard police played the video in court without much comment being reported. Made me wonder if it might be the friend who is now a prosecution witness but have no clue how or if the running person even fits into the crime ... actually wasn't it reported it was an individual running back and forth between a Burmese camp? Seem to recall something like that being stated in the last couple weeks in the press but again not sure and thought no identity was given.

JTJ, you really stepped in to it, this time. "...running back and forth to the Burmese camp" Gimme a f'in break. That statement was obviously subjective drivel mentioned by RTP. If the judge was an impressionable 5 year old, it might get some credence, but he's not. The CCTV shows a thin young man (not a 45 yr old like Mon), a foot taller than either of the suspects, with mannerisms, body type and gait which perfectly match Nomsod. To say he's going to the Burmese camp is no more bankable than saying he's going anywhere else on the small island.

it was reported that police in court claimed running man was one of the accused, how many times do I have to repeat this ? and equally it is very obviously not one of the accused for a number of reasons which I am not going to repeat over and over, wrong clothes - no wristbands - taller, these are facts and very obvious observations to anyone with an IQ slightly higher than a buffalo

Any link to that report? I didn't read that in the articles I have read nor in the thread here ... just have seen people speculate that is why they showed it. I certainly may have missed that report but if as you say it is "very obviously not one of the accused " then makes no sense why the prosecutors would say it was when such a thing would not help their case but damage it.

Again, would be interested in reading that report but not finding it using Google.

Boomer -- Only in your imagination (that you seem to use often and then report as fact) did I step in anything. I simply asked a question about something I thought I remembered being reported. I actually have not seen anything reported that makes this unknown person relevant to the case but would be very interested if the prosecutors or defense is making it relevant such as Smedly is claiming.

No persons on here are answering you why fill the forums up with your rubbish.

[StealthEnergiser]

I think to make this forum run a bit a better we put a courtesy reminder on each page not to feed the RTP defenders because they thrive on stirring us up.

[AleG]

it was reported that police in court claimed running man was one of the accused, how many times do I have to repeat this ? and equally it is very obviously not one of the accused for a number of reasons which I am not going to repeat over and over, wrong clothes - no wristbands - taller, these are facts and very obvious observations to anyone with an IQ slightly higher than a buffalo

Those are not facts, they are speculation; that they couldn't have changed their clothes in the 4 or 5 hours between that footage and the previous known one, that they invariably use wristbands () and a height measurement based on what some anonymous person on the Internet deduced by drawing some lines on a photo. I have analyzed photos and videos to reconstruct camera and scene parameters so I know how small factors can lead to very different results, just a degree of difference in the focal length (that the person doing that had to guess) on such a wide angle lens makes a large difference, then there's the assumption over the height of the door used as a metric, and the assumption that the bottom of the door would be at the same level of the road, etc, etc...; so without knowing the methodology used your "fact" is based on untested assumptions.

[StealthEnergiser]

just ignore them

[JohnThailandJohn]

it was reported that police in court claimed running man was one of the accused, how many times do I have to repeat this ?

I call BS. I have seen nothing that says prosecutors or police in court have said it was one of the suspects. I will happily admit I am wrong if you provide a credible link (news report) showing different but until then I will say this is BS.

Edited July 29, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[thailandchilli]

Nice to see Khaosod English being pro active with a dynamic timeline of events http://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/timeline3/latest/embed/index.html?source=1WzXjt3z44W5PeP_jeQokZcr7Qf6_eVpSijwt4KK1mlU&font=Lustria-Lato〈=en&height=650

[DM07]

Does anyone know why they couldn't use the police station to conduct the interviews and reverted to a "Safe House" and what is a Safe House. Safe from Screams being heard?

Perhaps it was having major construction carried out at the time??

Just wondering as we had Ali'G JD GB and JTJ around at the moment and between them I am sure we can get a definitive answer

PiggiesMightFly.jpg

Lots of people mad at those responsible for this crime. Not unheard of for locals to swarm a police station when word gets out they have those responsible (why they had them in bullet proof vests and helmets while they reenacted the murders) but then again could have just been a private place where they wanted to possibly use some unconventional methods to get the truth out what they saw as two murdering rapists (animals). Bottom line, doesn't really mean anything to me except the confession "to police" should not hold weight but then again shouldn't in my opinion if they retracted it for any reason. Even if it was recorded, we clearly see a pattern on this thread of not believing video if it goes against what people want to believe. So if they retracted so be it, throw out the confession they gave to the police and let the other evidence including the DNA be used against them.

Wow!

...just wow!

[DM07]

Actually there have been numerous times defendants have been attacked while doing reenactments especially when it comes to these types of horrible crimes. Each time it happens there are demands the police stop doing these reenactments, at least announcing them in advance.

Exactly............. now u r seeing the story. Its normal to attack as the Thais feel it is necessary......... However they didn't. Not 1 stone or one person spitting or shouting.......Zilchhhhhh nil. zero

I am not sure what you are trying to say. The only thing I take away from the is that sometimes people act badly and sometimes they don't along with the fact that taking security precautions often deter people from acting badly. Now doubt there would be a lot of leaders around the world killed if they didn't have the security in place they do to deter people from acting against them, especially emotionally charged individuals who might otherwise not give pause if security was lax.

You are so far out of touch with reality, it isn't even funny anymore...or even the opposite, I don't know!

Security precautions keeping an angry mob from shouting or showing their disgust for the "animals" in any other way?

Thais, even more so?

Did you watch the reenactment?

It almost went in complete silence!

Do you know, what that was?

That was a STATEMENT!

Far more powerful, than you obviously can imagine!

These people knew, they were watching an absurd version of the Muppet Show!

That's why no sound was heard!

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

[saminoz]

There's also the insults, baseless accusations, character attacks, violations of privacy and threats aimed at silencing people. All in all, not a good showing.

By the way, the prosecution presented the CCTV of "Running Man" as evidence,saying it is Zaw Lin; I think there's a resemblance to that person (specially the very thick hair); but as I said it's not possible to make a 100% match without other corroborative evidence to support the notion.

Thanks Ale -- do you have a link or text string (if it is on a banned site) I can search on regarding Zaw Lin being the running man. The stories I read about the video day in court (assuming this is when it would have been introduced) didn't mention this and I read a few even one which broke down a time line based on the videos which doesn't include what I think would be a relevant thing. So many things get said here that are not backed up by credible reports, often things become facts that have no basis ... want to verify this is not the case with this.

Pol Col Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small “Asian man” who was seen running back and forth several times between 3am and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby.

The defendants' lawyers told Khaosod English that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo both said they were not the man seen running in the CCTV footage presented to the court.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/koh-tao-trial-resumes-court-shown-footage-of-victims-final-night-53318.php#sthash.Cp3RStl0.dpuf

Based on the above, they didn't name the runner and the lawyers are saying it is neither defendant -- why say both if they prosecutors indicated it was a specific one.

Sorry to interrupt your mutual admiration fest (Aleg types the same crud JTJ "likes" him, JTJ types the usual tripe and, surprise surprise, Aleg likes him right back!! ) again gents but aren't you forgetting that one of the other characters of interest (and NS' uncle) was reported to have immediately come forward and claimed that it was he, and not NS in the "running man" clip? What happened to that little morsel and does anyone have a link to the original post/claim?

No matter how you, in particular, JTJ try constantly to discredit every tiny morsel of the scant CCTV evidence that got past the information blackout, serious questions still remain that just add fire to the speculation and increasing skepticism about the handling of this case by the RTP.

If the RTP were being direct, transparent and forthcoming, shouldn't they investigate the fairly distinctive couple caught on tape in front of "Running Man"?

The apparent & somewhat clumsy altering of just the actual day and month (if I remember correctly) of the time stamp on some CCTV clips purporting to show NS at the university the next morning (the reason I say apparently altered is because the day and month of the time stamp were in a different color and in one case, format (in the middle of the time stamp but inconsistent!) to the rest of the time stamp. It really does look like someone has done a rushed but pretty poor job of making it look like earlier clips were from a time better suited to the "I was in BKK!" alibi, doesn't it? I might suggest that in the first screenshot, someone substituted another day & month to make it look like it was the morning following the crime (it could have been any number of the previous Monday mornings in 2014 up to that weekend). In the second, they seem to have been even more sloppy with the color of the characters but tried to change to make it look as though he was there on the Saturday before the attack too. I assume he must have got his hair cut on Sunday as the hairstyle and length seem somewhat different from the "Saturday" to the "Monday"!

I know that we are on opposite sides of the reality barrier here but, seriously, doesn't any of these issues cause you to have the tiniest, slightest, teeniest little doubt in the integrity of the RTP's investigation?

Just asking, and I have tried to be very, very civil as I just returned from a three day holiday for (I thought) humorously likening someone's intellect to that of a salad vegetable! I fell foul of TVF's own Article 44 measures, it seems!

Edited July 29, 2015 by saminoz

[JohnThailandJohn]

if you want to believe what you are been spoon fed then that is up to you, as far as I am concerned none of it is anything more than unfounded unverified nonsense

and as I have already said many times on this forum, I have in no way decided that the B2 are not involved in this crime but equally I have seen nothing that would convince me they are guilty or that other previous mentioned suspects are not involved......nothing

And unless you are in some imaginary world, you will never see nothing since you have absolutely nothing to do with the trial. Anything you don't like that you read you discount as being unreliable but latch on to the most silly things and try to make them mean something through implausible speculations. So, since you will NEVER see the evidence in the case, which you would likely ignore anyway, you will always believe they are not guilty. Even if they prove they are innocent you would dispute the proof and demand to see things first hand ... just like the demand being placed on the kid in Bangkok who any reasonable person not only has no reason to suspect but has proved he was not in Bangkok .... well proved to those who don't keep moving the goal post and demand further evidence they can examine themselves. Time to stop living in fantasy world of the internet detective game and realize we are just the public relying on often inaccurate and at best incomplete news coverage.

What are you saying JTJ. He knows and sees nothing But You Do. Like u have a secret access to it all.

Or are you saying you and him are the same. He has his fantasy and you have yours?

Nope, I just take the consistent reports of the DNA matching the defendants and the fact there is no plausible scenario that would explain their DNA/Semen in the victims body unless they were involved. One only needs to follow the reports of the DNA evidence reported from the start of the case until it was matched with them to realize it would take a vast conspiracy to have it not belong to them.

Then you look at the other reports which place them at the scene (including their own statements via their attorney's and to the press and court) around the time of the murder.

The witness who states they gave one of the victim's phone to them (yes the phone that theorists so ignorantly questioned to start the whole conspiracy bandwagon rolling and then couldn't back of)

Their own admissions they did it, outside police presence, to their embassy, lawyer and human rights workers that they did do it while also not fearing also telling them the police abused them.

This and the fact there is ZERO evidence to suggest any of the conspiracy folk's suspects had anything to do with it and the fact they were all considered suspects by police and cleared.

So yea, like the families who are privy to much more of the case information than we are, I believe the right people are on trial and suspect once the independent DNA tests are done, the suspects will be pleading guilty.

Sorry, just don't believe in baseless conspiracy theories. No doubt police can be corrupt but and innocent people are framed but it is not common and the vast majority of people in jail across the globe are guilty (thought most will tell you they are not) and there is NOTHING in this case to suggest the police framed these two and no reason for prosecutors and judges to go along with such a frame up or conspiracy. Again no plausible explanations to combat their semen being in the victim and it is a HUGE long shot that the independent tests are going to come back and say it was not them. In almos every scenario of a police cover-up conspiracy put forth here has the police being geniuses to pull this off (including duping the farang cops who visited) but then has them being bungling idiots who couldn't foresee the most obvious.

I don't need to make up anything or pretend or speculate or ignore or play internet detective. As everyone knows who has any base in reality, including the defense lawyers, the case is all about the DNA and Although there is only a very slim chance, I agree 100% with the defense in wanting to see if there is any holes they can use in the DNA to create doubt as a guilty plea can always be had and if they think they found something then they can continue to fight.

[JohnThailandJohn]

There's also the insults, baseless accusations, character attacks, violations of privacy and threats aimed at silencing people. All in all, not a good showing.

By the way, the prosecution presented the CCTV of "Running Man" as evidence,saying it is Zaw Lin; I think there's a resemblance to that person (specially the very thick hair); but as I said it's not possible to make a 100% match without other corroborative evidence to support the notion.

Thanks Ale -- do you have a link or text string (if it is on a banned site) I can search on regarding Zaw Lin being the running man. The stories I read about the video day in court (assuming this is when it would have been introduced) didn't mention this and I read a few even one which broke down a time line based on the videos which doesn't include what I think would be a relevant thing. So many things get said here that are not backed up by credible reports, often things become facts that have no basis ... want to verify this is not the case with this.

Pol Col Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small Asian man who was seen running back and forth several times between 3am and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby.

The defendants' lawyers told Khaosod English that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo both said they were not the man seen running in the CCTV footage presented to the court.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/koh-tao-trial-resumes-court-shown-footage-of-victims-final-night-53318.php#sthash.Cp3RStl0.dpuf

Based on the above, they didn't name the runner and the lawyers are saying it is neither defendant -- why say both if they prosecutors indicated it was a specific one.

Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk mutual admiration fest (Aleg types the same crud JTJ "likes" him, JTJ types the usual tripe and, surprise surprise, Aleg likes him right back!! ) again gents but aren't you forgetting that one of the other characters of interest (and NS' uncle) was reported to have immediately come forward and claimed that it was he, and not NS in the "running man" clip? What happened to that little morsel and does anyone have a link to the original post/claim?

Sounds like if there was even a morsel of truth to such a thing then your issue should be with the defense team if they didn't bring that up.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

[PaPiPuPePo]

Not based on any comments I have scene. Not to mention a forensic expert would want to examine the wounds and not use internet pictures to draw conclusions. Am sure I have missed many posts here but from what I can tell there are no forensic, DNA, crime scene or just about any other types of experts related to this case posting here. Then again there can be some among the huge amount of outrageous and and comical posts here from the keyboard experts.

JTJ writes:

"Then again there can be some among the huge amount of outrageous and and comical posts here from the keyboard experts."

From perhaps the most prolific producer of outrageous and comical posts, the ultimate phoney keyboard expert.

And I thought putting him on ignore would give me a break from his bull cocky......

Good Idea! Please add me to.

If I cared I'd wonder what you want me to add you to

[thailandchilli]

if you want to believe what you are been spoon fed then that is up to you, as far as I am concerned none of it is anything more than unfounded unverified nonsense

and as I have already said many times on this forum, I have in no way decided that the B2 are not involved in this crime but equally I have seen nothing that would convince me they are guilty or that other previous mentioned suspects are not involved......nothing

And unless you are in some imaginary world, you will never see nothing since you have absolutely nothing to do with the trial. Anything you don't like that you read you discount as being unreliable but latch on to the most silly things and try to make them mean something through implausible speculations. So, since you will NEVER see the evidence in the case, which you would likely ignore anyway, you will always believe they are not guilty. Even if they prove they are innocent you would dispute the proof and demand to see things first hand ... just like the demand being placed on the kid in Bangkok who any reasonable person not only has no reason to suspect but has proved he was not in Bangkok .... well proved to those who don't keep moving the goal post and demand further evidence they can examine themselves. Time to stop living in fantasy world of the internet detective game and realize we are just the public relying on often inaccurate and at best incomplete news coverage.

What are you saying JTJ. He knows and sees nothing But You Do. Like u have a secret access to it all.

Or are you saying you and him are the same. He has his fantasy and you have yours?

Nope, I just take the consistent reports of the DNA matching the defendants and the fact there is no plausible scenario that would explain their DNA/Semen in the victims body unless they were involved. One only needs to follow the reports of the DNA evidence reported from the start of the case until it was matched with them to realize it would take a vast conspiracy to have it not belong to them.

Then you look at the other reports which place them at the scene (including their own statements via their attorney's and to the press and court) around the time of the murder.

The witness who states they gave one of the victim's phone to them (yes the phone that theorists so ignorantly questioned to start the whole conspiracy bandwagon rolling and then couldn't back of)

Their own admissions they did it, outside police presence, to their embassy, lawyer and human rights workers that they did do it while also not fearing also telling them the police abused them.

This and the fact there is ZERO evidence to suggest any of the conspiracy folk's suspects had anything to do with it and the fact they were all considered suspects by police and cleared.

So yea, like the families who are privy to much more of the case information than we are, I believe the right people are on trial and suspect once the independent DNA tests are done, the suspects will be pleading guilty.

Sorry, just don't believe in baseless conspiracy theories. No doubt police can be corrupt but and innocent people are framed but it is not common and the vast majority of people in jail across the globe are guilty (thought most will tell you they are not) and there is NOTHING in this case to suggest the police framed these two and no reason for prosecutors and judges to go along with such a frame up or conspiracy. Again no plausible explanations to combat their semen being in the victim and it is a HUGE long shot that the independent tests are going to come back and say it was not them. In almos every scenario of a police cover-up conspiracy put forth here has the police being geniuses to pull this off (including duping the farang cops who visited) but then has them being bungling idiots who couldn't foresee the most obvious.

I don't need to make up anything or pretend or speculate or ignore or play internet detective. As everyone knows who has any base in reality, including the defense lawyers, the case is all about the DNA and Although there is only a very slim chance, I agree 100% with the defense in wanting to see if there is any holes they can use in the DNA to create doubt as a guilty plea can always be had and if they think they found something then they can continue to fight.

More fantasy from above its far to boring to respond to loony, let him revel in his make believe world

[arfurcrown]

Now the most interesting fact here is that there is a coterie of posters who are determined to ensure the B2 are found guilty of this heinous crime.

Now gentleman, why would that be ?

You have been a conducting consistent ongoing campaign of guilty since the B2 were arrested.

Be truthful, what is your agenda or whose agenda are you working to and why are you working to that agenda ?

[worgeordie]

Wheres Sherlock when we need him,Oh he's fiction,just like

the majority of the prosecutions case I would think.

regards Worgeordie

[Darkknight666]

Authorities here couldn't care less about justice for David and Hannah (and possibly B2) , they care about sweeping this under the rug as fast as possible. JTJ and co. Would prefer the same. Police here could reach out for assistance from law enforcement anywhere in the world to solve this properly and actually restore their image. Why don't the reach out? Anyone?

[Nigeone]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

No in no shape or form as the RTP case against the accused up to now been remotely successful . They have had 6 days in court up to now to put forward the case and haven't presented one iota of evidence to even remotely suggest the B2 were involved.. I could list the failures and in some cases massive failures at that. If that is successful to date then you don't live in the real world. Please feel free to show any incidence of this Perfect case !! Edited July 29, 2015 by Nigeone

[balo]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

[Linky]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

Thats the whole point of a trial. You are supposed to 'not believe' until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

So where is the proof for the dna, the chain of custody?

[balo]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

Thats the whole point of a trial. You are supposed to 'not believe' until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

So where is the proof for the dna, the chain of custody?

Wait until the trial is over , not much except for the DNA that nobody believes in. Edited July 29, 2015 by balo

[thailandchilli]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

No in no shape or form as the RTP case against the accused up to now been remotely successful . They have had 6 days in court up to now to put forward the case and haven't presented one iota of evidence to even remotely suggest the B2 were involved.. I could list the failures and in some cases massive failures at that. If that is successful to date then you don't live in the real world. Please feel free to show any incidence of this Perfect case !!

The only credibility the prosecution could show now is the following:

Clear evidence of the secure chain of custody of the DNA trace samples that are supposedly left. If they cannot show that then the case should be dismissed now.

If they can prove the above then a re test to international standards should be carried out:

If the test comes back a no match then the case should be dismissed

If it comes back positive then the B2 are guilty of having sex with a victim, it then needs to be proved it was rape and further needs to be proved they murdered both victims although I would certainly accept their guilt on at least rape and maybe even murder based on any other evidence the prosecution has that it has not shown yet.

[Chetzee]

Stingray Man

compelling and very hard to account for these wounds other than that ring

except perhaps for the lack of obvious bruising made by the fist behind the ring . does death stop bruising coming out ?

on the other hand , sees odd that many of the usual suspects no longer seem to see on his list of facebook friends , wonder if they have distanced then selves from him .

[Linky]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

Because no judge anywhere in the world would dismiss a case before prosecution has presented all its evidence. But that doesnt mean the prosecution case so far isnt a complete shambles.

You really need to think before you post.

[Darkknight666]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

It's a matter of not trusting the RTP's investigation into this crime and many documented other cases where police don't care or they're complicit in some way. But you're right, any of the evidence offered up so far can't be trusted because important police procedures were not executed properly. Add to that the lead investigator never saw a report about NS DNA... So how can he say the DNA found on Hannah one person or another's?

I guess if you don't come from a place that has a functioning justice system you just won't understand, Balo.

When somebody other than RTP verify the evidence people will believe, Not just taking RTP at their word. And that's normal.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Darkknight666

[Nigeone]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

No I don't trust the translator either as loses all his credibility in his job description, Roti seller. In Thailand a good translator could make a lot of money but chosen to have a volunteer/volunteer job. I would ask him to forward his qualification to bring some credibility to his claim of being a translator. I don't either trust the DNA tests until chain of custody on all tests and procedures and movement of DNA samples. And finally with the track record of RTP in all areas of policing are found to be at best incompetent and at worst corrupt. A credible Police force has a pool of authorized translators for such times as this. Also any interviews are recorded and maybe filmed as well so all matters can be shown to above board . The RTP failed to record any part of interviews have a lawyer there in all questioning which is required in these case. I will be very interested in how your going to deny those facts I have just pointed out ! I will wait !