Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[minikev]

It was three weeks between the time the crime took place and the time these two patsies were arrested. They were playing football when arrested. Would two guilty guys, who committed a crime like this, stay on Dark Tao? I do not think so. Most would flee. Perhaps further proof of their innocence?

This News Media Reported that these 2 accused were not on the Island when they were arrested. They said they were arrested on the Mainland in Thailand but did not use the words "fleeing" and never said a word about them playing football. .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11135629/Burmese-man-confesses-to-murder-of-British-backpackers-Hannah-Witheridge-and-David-Miller.html

You need to go back and read more reports!

[thhMan]

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

[boomerangutang]

I've been thinking about a part near the end of the Kevin Costner movie 'No Way Out.' A top brass US navy man is under suspicion for orchestrating a cover-up for a murder he committed. He has a right-hand man who's always defending him. At the end of the flick, the top brass concedes he's guilty but, get this...., his right-hand-man is STILL DEFENDING HIM as being innocent. .... the defender is almost foaming at the mouth in his compulsion to defend his boss, even though the boss, by that time, has admitted guilt.

It reminds me of what's currently happening with RTP defenders on this blog, who will go on defending the RTP shenanigans, even when the RTP themselves admit they've screwed up!

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?
I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

Fully reviewed by PBS in an hour long special. Their experts found no "doctoring"

I watched the entire PBS special you're referring to. Near the end, there's a mega-speeded up segment of just part of the time we're concerned about. We want to see when NS entered the lobby, before leaving at 9:30. It's already been established that it would not be difficult to flee from the island just after 5 am (when the crime was done) and get to Bkk within 4.5 hours. It could be done in closer to 3.5 hours. So, the well-seen NS video of him leaving is not important, except as a ruse.

[steffi]

Police in Thailand is very different to Police in a western country. They are doing what is expected of Police in Thailand.

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

[GOLDBUGGY]

Please be more selective about what you reply to.

You should have replied to an earlier message if you wanted to make that point.

People were deducing from various photos that this was Nom Sod due to the way his arm appeared in this and many other photos.

for GB

Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-cctv-image-released-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspect-1465640

Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.

Definition of the word "purportedly"

-alleged

-supposed

-rumored

Definition of rumor

-be circulated as an unverified account.

So

Bloodied pair of jeans "rumored" to belong to Miller.

My Point was taken.

Besides, there was no earlier post on what rockingrobin said as he attached to you.

But regarding you post nobody would reply to that anyway,as this has been mentioned here before you about 250 times already, and in which you would know if you read any of them. .

[jacko45k]

If most farangs don't care -- excepting maybe those on here -- then why should the average Thai care? Koh Tao Pub Crawl photo 10 JUL 2015 --

https://www.facebook.com/195259667186954/photos/pb.195259667186954.-2207520000.1436775105./916317651747815/?type=1&theater

https://scontent-kul1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11218864_916317911747789_1136168655140147748_n.jpg?oh=25dc7afc7edb6ed048d1a8c28dc5d95b&oe=5623196D

Perhaps we should be asking why so many on this Forum seem to care so much about this case, to the extent that there are pages and pages

of, sometimes salacious, detail and pointless speculation?

It's a horrible murder and there has been plenty of typical mishandling, cock-ups and potential corruption or malpractice, but that's hardly

unusual in this part of the world. Is it just because the victims were British and attractive?

I think any foreign 1st world victims would have drawn the attention of the media, as to TV, well a reasonable proportion are British.

But I don't think the interest shown is the main question!

[Eirene]

Post #1895 - Regarding the jeans. David was a structural engineer and had gone to Australia in July of 2014 for a six week work placement as part of a scholarship at a mining company before travelling to Thailand. The stains could be from the mining job. If you look at the iron ore mines in Australia you will see the same colour.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Eirene

[Jockey]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

[thhMan]

Police in Thailand is very different to Police in a western country. They are doing what is expected of Police in Thailand.

The biggest problem to this investigation is that the police dont have any experience in being police

Expected by who?

They went to the crime scene, bungled that up and continued their bungling circus show right through the investigation.... Is that what they are expected to do?

[Borzandy]

Good luck Andy Hall, don't give up. But be careful.

[Peabody]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

[Jimbolai]

70 pages and plenty of already turned over earth with just a smidging of nuggets worth reading.

SadpersoninAsia continues his petulance and adds nothing and JTJ has changed from issuing statements in support of

the RTP to making farcical and badly written insults. You disapoint me JTJ, I had you marked down as a bit sharper than that.

Attacks on Crabby are also without foundation as he has always related facts and opinion, not taking the fence stake out of his posterior,

fence sitting and observations to enrage others are his hobbies!

Overall the trial seems to be going exactly the way many expected, all we do not know is whether it will collapse or blunder on with the inevitable guilty verdict at the end of it.

Brits have something but what it is, we do not know nor do we know what kind of evidence the "foreigner" will bring to the trial.

But will any of the "new" or contradictory evidence really matter in this trial?

We can only hope.

We, USA, have nothing to brag about after the OJ trial. The bastard was guilty as sin and walked away free.

[TerrylSky]

Keystone cops alive and well.

[alfalfa19]

There is no mystery to add to. Ray Charles could see what has been going on. And not only was he blind, he is dead as well.

[gchurch259]

I think they should put these two on a boat to the main land, truck them to the border and release them. Then get busy finding the real killers. If it is part of the Mafia down there, then send the Army in and clean up the whole island.

[alfalfa19]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

[Emster23]

"Why haven't locals who know what really happened come forward?" is often asked. A bit of Asian dime store philosophy came to mind:

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down" (from Japan, I believe)

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" (nothing on Thai news, could be charged with harming Thailand's image, couldn't they?)

Locals have to live there, or want to live (there) after all the attention goes away. Powerful have good long term memory regarding situations like this. Who could truth tellers turn to for protection?

[GOLDBUGGY]

I wonder if any of the suspects (and not just the 2B) are left-handed? Looking at the major wound and the rocks around the body, the perpetrator probably was standing to the left side when the skull was fractured. The wide wound is consistent with the wide blade of a hoe- it could certainly be compared to see if it matched.. The angled break in the skull would seem to indicate that the blow was struck at a downward angle from the left. It would be difficult for a RH person to strike that blow (try it). The angle of the fracture and the rocks above her body indicate that the blow was not struck from a person standing above her head. The blood spatter on the rock to her right would seem to indicate the the blow was struck at that location, not that the body was moved from another location. Detailed CS pics would make these determinations easier, but they appear to have been lost, due to "...lack of money...".

You bring up an interesting point about being left-handed, which I have heard before here but I wonder how much significance this is.

I for example I am totally left-handed. I can't even hold a pen in my right hand, or throw a ball, or cut with a knife or scissors right-handed. But when I bat in baseball or golf, or hold a garden hoe, I do it right-handed and like must everyone else. I couldn't even hit a golf ball if I switched to left-handed clubs, and even tried a couple of times. Well not that I am great hitting the ball right-handed either, but at least then I got a 50/50 chance then that I will.

[Wadan]

It seems this whole episode is continuing because of the saving face phenomena.

This country , the leadership, and the justice system needs to wake up and understand that the real loss of face here is to continue this charade.

It is obvious to everyone that the bungling of this investigation, the poor excuses given, the several flip flops , could never render justice in any decent society. If they believe that trying to find a way to convict those innocent young men will save their face then they have no idea of international thinking. This will raise such a hell , that even media reports that is not carrying this case now.....will get on the bandwagon of injustice and expose this system , its corruption and ills for what it is. The impact on tourism will be so disastrous that they will have a rude awakening.It would be interesting to see how face could be saved then.

[Wadan]

It seems this whole episode is continuing because of the saving face phenomena.

This country , the leadership, and the justice system needs to wake up and understand that the real loss of face here is to continue this charade.

It is obvious to everyone that the bungling of this investigation, the poor excuses given, the several flip flops , could never render justice in any decent society. If they believe that trying to find a way to convict those innocent young men will save their face then they have no idea of international thinking. This will raise such a hell , that even media reports that is not carrying this case now.....will get on the bandwagon of injustice and expose this system , its corruption and ills for what it is. The impact on tourism will be so disastrous that they will have a rude awakening.It would be interesting to see how face could be saved then.

[steveyinasia]

"....undermines the credibility of their investigation" This assumes that they hadcredibility in the first place

[Just1Voice]

Put up a couple of million baht reward for information, combined with protection, anonymity, and a free ticket back to Myanmar, and then see who comes forward.

[Oziex1]

Just a thought people, if this case crashes and some pretty important people lose face in a big way, who do you think will be the victim of their revenge ? I would reckon the social media, so be careful what you wish for as it might come back to haunt us. Sometimes TVF can be informative, sometimes funny, sometimes serious and sometimes annoying, but heck, I would hate it to be severely limited or even blocked.

Everybody by now knows this case is a mega cock-up, just be careful how deep you rub the noses of the RTP and their backers in the pooh.

Just a thought !!!

We can rely on the mods to keep us on track and within the guidelines of this forum so go for it.

Understand your thought, but lets at least try and touch the untouchables Eliotness.

[GOLDBUGGY]

"Why haven't locals who know what really happened come forward?" is often asked. A bit of Asian dime store philosophy came to mind:

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down" (from Japan, I believe)

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" (nothing on Thai news, could be charged with harming Thailand's image, couldn't they?)

Locals have to live there, or want to live (there) after all the attention goes away. Powerful have good long term memory regarding situations like this. Who could truth tellers turn to for protection?

I am more curious about the migrant workers who are now in the safety of their own homes. After all it has been 10 months since this has happened and surely some of them went home by now.

But considering the crime took place between 2 am and 4 am (some may say longer) then perhaps there isn't anyone around who actually knows anything. I seldom saw anyone on the streets in Pattaya at 5 and 6 am so in a village it must be even more quiet.

[bamukloy]

I've been thinking about a part near the end of the Kevin Costner movie 'No Way Out.' A top brass US navy man is under suspicion for orchestrating a cover-up for a murder he committed. He has a right-hand man who's always defending him. At the end of the flick, the top brass concedes he's guilty but, get this...., his right-hand-man is STILL DEFENDING HIM as being innocent. .... the defender is almost foaming at the mouth in his compulsion to defend his boss, even though the boss, by that time, has admitted guilt.

It reminds me of what's currently happening with RTP defenders on this blog, who will go on defending the RTP shenanigans, even when the RTP themselves admit they've screwed up!

what was with the son and the doctored CCTV images in Bangkok? Was that all set up to help his alibi?

I saw that on CSI LA but most of the comments were in thai

Fully reviewed by PBS in an hour long special. Their experts found no "doctoring"

I watched the entire PBS special you're referring to. Near the end, there's a mega-speeded up segment of just part of the time we're concerned about. We want to see when NS entered the lobby, before leaving at 9:30. It's already been established that it would not be difficult to flee from the island just after 5 am (when the crime was done) and get to Bkk within 4.5 hours. It could be done in closer to 3.5 hours. So, the well-seen NS video of him leaving is not important, except as a ruse.

Surely if he had entered the lobby a short time beforehand, or even earlier in that morning, wouldnt they have picked up on it?

In any case it doesnt prove much as he could easily state he was coming home from a party/venue in Bkk.

What i find interesting in all this is that when the original police first released the walking man cctv still to the media, the text beside it read they were looking for this BURMESE worker.

In other words, the information was OK'd for release to the media assuming (or should i say..providing) the guy in the picture was a Burmese worker.

( i wont add what i reckon happened next)

Ahem, So, I wonder what led the original police to deduce that walking man was Burmese?

[Rykbanlor]

"Why haven't locals who know what really happened come forward?" is often asked. A bit of Asian dime store philosophy came to mind:

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down" (from Japan, I believe)

"Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" (nothing on Thai news, could be charged with harming Thailand's image, couldn't they?)

Locals have to live there, or want to live (there) after all the attention goes away. Powerful have good long term memory regarding situations like this. Who could truth tellers turn to for protection?

I am more curious about the migrant workers who are now in the safety of their own homes. After all it has been 10 months since this has happened and surely some of them went home by now.

But considering the crime took place between 2 am and 4 am (some may say longer) then perhaps there isn't anyone around who actually knows anything. I seldom saw anyone on the streets in Pattaya at 5 and 6 am so in a village it must be even more quiet.

First post of yours I can get with a little GB. As far as other migrant Burmese workers go, yes I think it's unlikely anyone was out and about at 3am in the morning. I get the impression from some stuff I've read that most of the BUrmese living quarters are some distance from Sairee, maybe?

I would think any witness testimony that might come up would more likely be from incidents that happened earlier in the evening in bars or whatnot i.e. Any run-ins that may suggest a motive, as there has been hearsay that she was pestered earlier in the evening.

[Lancashireman]

Perhaps a modern lie detector should be used to determine the truth. I mean on the police offers involved in the case...........

Water boarding...

Start with the chef of police...

Where's Dick Cheney when you need him? Perhaps he can hop on a plane and bring his waterboard with him. Put hinges on it, fold it up, and perhaps he can take it as carry-on luggage.

"we're waxing down our surfboards, we can't wait for June." Beach Boys

No one needs Dick Cheney, or the beach boys for that matter...

[Oziex1]

What seems to becoming clear (to me anyway), is that the Thai police are not used to having to present cases to the court to the standards expected in western countries. If this case did not have such a wide international interest, then I suspect the word of the police would be enough to convict the accused.

The likely reason the police case is so unprofessional is because this is the normal standard for them. Pinning crimes on poor immigrants by tampering with evidence in order to protect rich criminals would normally be a very easy thing to do, but in this case the spotlight is on both them and the Thai justice system. The police have demonstrated their surprise that the defense lawyers are actually questioning their integrity and have angrily confronted the defense team outside the court, actually lecturing to the defense team that their lawyers should be helping the police with the case, not helping the accused. The police are not happy and seem very uncomfortable with this chain of events.

Hopefully this case might be a springboard for the Thai justice system to improve and bring its forensic standards into the 21st century.

Well said, and I cannot help wondering how many heinous crimes like this have been covered up, and pinned on some unfortunate soul(s). I guess this case is getting a lot more attention because of the social media aspect, and the fact that it was a young, attractive foreign couple who were hideously murdered. I'm sure it's not the first time, however. Let's hope this brings more attention to such cases.

More attention I'm sure it will, the media will roll with this, a military coup, inaction on human trafficking a history of tourists murdered with no or questionable investigations it all fits well for a country ruled by a group who forced their leadership upon the country.

[spidermike007]

everything falls or stands with 100 % proof of DNA.

If thai police and government are sure they are correct, why not let it retested ? dna of the sperm must clear everything...

why keep it unclear why create doubts

Not necessarily. Think about it. The son of the headman is from a family worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. How often does he get laid? Does he need to rape? He could have very easily forced one of his soldiers to rape Hannah, then killed her. So, what does the DNA prove then? I think the likelihood he is guilty of murder is extremely high. I think the chances he is guilty of rape are extremely low. So, the DNA may prove nothing. I think the chances these two Burmese are guilty is next to zero. When they were arrested, they were casually playing football. Three weeks after this brutal crime. Would guilty men stay on the island for weeks afterwards? Very few would. Not the behavior of murderers.

[Rykbanlor]

Perhaps a modern lie detector should be used to determine the truth. I mean on the police offers involved in the case...........

Water boarding...

Start with the chef of police...

Where's Dick Cheney when you need him? Perhaps he can hop on a plane and bring his waterboard with him. Put hinges on it, fold it up, and perhaps he can take it as carry-on luggage.

"we're waxing down our surfboards, we can't wait for June." Beach Boys

No one needs Dick Cheney, or the beach boys for that matter...

If it turns out she was shot in the face as some people believe, Dick Cheney might not want to be around when they start looking for new culprits