Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stephenterry]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

You need to see the bigger picture JLC. Probably you are correct that they would like to turn-in the rich kid, but they know which side of their bread is buttered. No way are they going to upset the big players in Thai officialdom who could come down on them and spoil their money-making machine.

Besides, who cares about a couple of migrants...

[Rykbanlor]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the five families that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

I wonder what family Prasit belonged to, the taxi driver who claimed the RTP beat him and tried to bribe him to be a witness. Mon was certainly not very happy with him and made it public on his facebook page, the post is still there but I cant give the link as its a Thai page

Could you give us a quick translation of what mon said about the taxi driver since you can't post the Thai fb page. Cheers

My wife is not around today so in Google translate it says:

Blackie . Prasit what you do in the Social as of now you should review with notches in (head), you have enough left in it to make the island of us , you've come livelihood livelihoods had a favorable image . or more You will burn their houses burnt island , why would you create a rift in the island for nothing. With respect to you. ?

Sorry but blame Google

Could you PM me a link? I would like to read it if possible.

[Rykbanlor]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

Rape is a crime of violence?

No wonder I get a Boner every time I argue with my wife.

Come on Man! Rape is a Violent Crime, where perhaps taking over the control of a woman (or Man) and terrorizing them while having sex with them may be part of that pleasure. But this is different. The Motive for Rape is obvious!

Yes, rape is a crime of violence, power/domination, also tied into sexual gratification.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I also believe she was killed because she was a witness to Davids murder who possibly arrived on the scene while the rape was taking place and was fatally attacked when he tried to intervene, from that time this incident turned from a rape on the beach to a rape and double murder, I also don't believe only 2x men were involved

This is my line of thought also

It is possible this could have happened. They could have had a prearranged time to meet there, or David just happened to come along. But....

I teach my daughters not to walk down dark back alleys at night. I am sure Hannah's Parents did the same thing. So would she wonder down a lonely beach by herself, when she must have been with someone, as I doubt she would drink alone? Would she wonder out to some totally isolated spot behind some rocks by herself late at night? Was she dragged there, when David would have had to been nearby to come up to them later? Would David be out drinking by himself to?

To me it seems more plausible they met up some place. They both stayed at the same place so maybe they met up just outside there door. Or maybe at the bar together, which they could have footage of evidence, but haven't shown the public yet. But a Girl out alone on her own, and a guy she was with that night (David) stumbling on the crime scene. Not likely.

More likely they were together and they murdered David first to get at Hannah later to rape her. The Motive. Then had to murder her to leave no witnesses to the crime. But I am not saying you could not be right as I honestly don't know.

I agree with most of what you've said, and I do think it is more likely that David and Hannah were together before any attack took place. However, the highlighted section is an improbable initial motive. It doesn't fit any motivation scenario. Kill someone to be able to get to rape someone else? That's extreme, and involves two motivating factors - lust and anger - not one.

More plausible is that a confrontation took place that resulted in David getting attacked. The rest follows. Is it important? Yes, because the RTP assert it was lust that caused the B2 to attack David.

While no-one on here knows, the testimony of the UK crime scene expert could shed light on what could have happened.

Agreed.

[JLCrab]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

You need to see the bigger picture JLC. Probably you are correct that they would like to turn-in the rich kid, but they know which side of their bread is buttered. No way are they going to upset the big players in Thai officialdom who could come down on them and spoil their money-making machine.

Besides, who cares about a couple of migrants...

If everybody-who-knows who did it actually did it, the Big Players in Thai officialdom might be more likely to come down on them if they DON'T turn him in if he hasn't by then left the country already.

[thailandchilli]

My wife is not around today so in Google translate it says:

Blackie . Prasit what you do in the Social as of now you should review with notches in (head), you have enough left in it to make the island of us , you've come livelihood livelihoods had a favorable image . or more You will burn their houses burnt island , why would you create a rift in the island for nothing. With respect to you. ?

Sorry but blame Google

Could you PM me a link? I would like to read it if possible.

Sent

[stephenterry]

Typing error on (now) post #2852 above. Didn't see what went into snip box. Apologies.

But as long as I'm here, according to this report, there are five separate families on Koh Tao alone.:

Spend any time living on the island or speak to long termers under normal circumstances and they will speak of the “five families” that inhabit the island. Three of these key families inhabit and control the main Sairee beach, while the other two have more power on the Chalok side of the Island.

These families, in typical Thai fashion, tend to be incredibly jealous of each other, and highly competitive for every tourist dollar

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

So the notion that there is just one big KT family that will in lock-step protect any member of that family come hell or high water, according to this report, does not hold. One of the other four families might just be happy to turn the kid in for causing them all this unnecessary bullsh-t.

You need to see the bigger picture JLC. Probably you are correct that they would like to turn-in the rich kid, but they know which side of their bread is buttered. No way are they going to upset the big players in Thai officialdom who could come down on them and spoil their money-making machine.

Besides, who cares about a couple of migrants...

If everybody-who-knows who did it actually did it, the Big Players in Thai officialdom might be more likely to come down on them if they DON'T turn him in if he hasn't by then left the country already.

They're in the loop, old boy. Protect the hierarchy at all costs. Keep the money rolling in.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

There you go twisting things again.

I never said they planned it out. I believe what they said when they first confessed to this crime to be true. I never doubted that since then either.

The rationality comes in when I heard they just so happen to be drunk and didn't see anything, during the time of the murders. Or finding David's Mobile Phone on the night he was murdered. Like having there DNA match, and being set up by someone. Like having the bad luck of being on the beach at that time. Like having the cigarettes also found by the log matching the DNA with Hannah. Like not having an alibi. Like...the list goes on and on.

It's such a shame all the CCTV camera's were out of action.

Would David and Hannah have had to walk past the log or was there a seperate entrance to the rocky area.?

Who says all the CCTV were out of action. Is it just because the Police has not told everyone everything they have as Evidence?

Which Police Force is the West discusses an ongoing Murder Trail? Would I be close if I say Zero!

The Prosecution still has about 62 Witnesses to call. Do you now who they are? Do you know what they are going to talk about? Do you know what evidence they may present? The Defense Team as about 20 Witnesses to call. Who are they and what are they going to say or present?

You are jumping to conclusions. Lets see how it all unfolds by the end of September, if it goes this long.

[thailandchilli]

At the moment there are 3 sets suspects first,

1)Mon and NS, background both extremely wealthy Mon a successful businessman and NS A university student. (Mon is on island NS whereabouts unknown)

2) Sean busker/ barman convictions for having kiddie porn (Meant to meet david on the night off the murder and claims he fell asleep)

3) B2 (who admit to being on the beach the night of the murders even before they were allegedly tortured, and were on cctv)

Then we have motive

1)That the attack was personal a grudge to settle, or loss off face something that made a normal person flip out and inflict such awful injuries.

2) Or that someone or group were on yaba (meth) and did this out of there minds.

We also have shark tooth man who has allegations of rape before, then there is what looks to be a Thai man captured next to Hannah on the bar crawl the night before. Additionally we have a possible motor bike gang of 4 Thai guys who allegedly mugged two girls from the UK just the night before on the same stretch of beach. I'm afraid the suspect list is rather large and thats without the ones we may know nothing about presently.

The thai bike gang could well be burmese there is no way your average holiday maker is going to tell the difference,

were the B2 caught on cctv on a bike ? how do they afford that ? they have money to buy packs of cigarettes, and beer and not the usual cheap stuff anyone know how much a pack of l&m are on koh tao at the moment ? they don't strike me as your stereotypical burmese migrant.

The burmese that come to the little shop at the end of my road have a shot of the local brew and buy a couple of very cheap brand cigarettes.

Yes sure the Thai bike gang could be Burmese but the report was a Thai gang, maybe they have more information than we do on that, but sure its possible they could be Burmese. Yes the the B2 were captured on cctv with 3 on one bike, I'm certainly not going to join dots there, how do they afford it? They had full time jobs, 3 Burmese on a bike is hardly extravagant.

[smedly]

Lets suppose for a moment you are a local and you know who carried out this crime and feel that it is your honest duty to tell what you know.

Who exactly do you tell ? the police ? who would you trust, you could tell a foreign news team but there is nothing much they could publish because of defamation laws plus it would only be hearsay anyway

In the west the correct answer would be the police who if they think the info is viable would then investigate

Exactly what is wrong in this country, not only do farangs not trust the police but the locals don't either

[GOLDBUGGY]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

Rape is a crime of violence?

No wonder I get a Boner every time I argue with my wife.

Come on Man! Rape is a Violent Crime, where perhaps taking over the control of a woman (or Man) and terrorizing them while having sex with them may be part of that pleasure. But this is different. The Motive for Rape is obvious!

Yes, rape is a crime of violence, power/domination, also tied into sexual gratification.

Thank you for that post and providing common ground we can agree on.

[JLCrab]

Thanks. Kristy Jones case didn't receive a fraction of the publicity this one did. But from now on, instead of reading your posts, I'm going to turn on my James Earl Jones/Darth Vader voice synthesize to listen to your words of unvarnished authority on these matters and the BIG picture.

[Tony121]

Another part of the blame in my opinion has to rest with the british media they all jumped on the bandwagon of this young innocent backpacker being framed for murder,

Sean would have been a prime suspect he was meant to meet the victim, he has i weak alibi

People where seen on the beach playing a guitar, he has a guitar

I don't think I would of lost much sleep if the RTP had used him as a scapegoat ?

[glenmohr]

If you ignore the idea that there are strings being pulled from high above and return to basics - manipulating the crime scene.

There are some posters who seem to find this completely implausible, yet the world is awash with cases of planted evidence, mixed up DNA samples and various other unethical practices - google it. It is also noted that it is not difficult to do this. (Coffee cups and cigarette butts are a go to example in many articles, for crude evidence planting, incidentally).

Once more, let it be noted that it was the local cops, that started at the crime scene, plus other locals were tramping across it and, there was no forensic pathologist at the scene collecting the samples, as per protocol.

SO forget all the theories and stories, but what is so hard to understand about this??? I don't want you to say, "Ah ok, now i see, I change my stance",

but a SIMPLE ADMISSION that the manipulation of the crime scene is not so unbelievable or difficult to achieve, especially when the correct personnel were not even there to oversee it. Chain of custody as Thailandchili mentioned earlier.

Again, just a simple acknowledgement that the crime scene could easily have been tampered with and evidence could have been planted, as has happened in other instances, in the US for example. You don't need to change your stance.

Your concern would be more concerning if the two were already suspects when the evidence was gathered at the crime scene but they were not. So it is very implausible to think their semen was planted inside the victim along with other DNA collected from the scene only to have police make fools of themselves for weeks accusing others and making idiotic assumptions prior to catching one of this group leaving the island and questioning them.

If the motive was to not make them (police) look bad or to have Thailand look bad or tourism to the island be hurt then this would make no sense as the results were just the opposite and very controllable by police who could have pinned this on anyone early on if that was their goal or could have arrested these two immediately after if they were framing them from the get go.

The evidence (DNA) collected at the crime scene would have been run and reports shared with dozens of people on various computers and in various reports. The only way without them planting these two DNA at the scene initially to accomplish a frame up would be to get rid of all these original reports and eliminate all those with access (including all the techs at the labs) from being able to speak out.

Is there some other plausible theory that would get their semen inside the victim? A mismanaged crime scene or improper collection or contamination would not cause their semen to be found in the victim. Only thing I can think of is the police have lied and the prosecutors and labs are part of the lie in stating the it was their DNA / Semen that matched ... again another fairly vast conspiracy would need to take place.

Good Post John. As usual it make good logical sense, so probably why it will be attacked here.

I looked into the possibility of the conspiracy theory and having 2 scapegoats that many say took there place. But the one thing that stands out above the rest is "Why Bother?".

I mean that if there was even a shed of truth to this why bother to plant evidence, involving several people committing a criminal act to frame 2 poor migrant Workers? I mean a guy like Al Capone...maybe. But 2 Migrants Works who they could have accused the second day after the murders but it took 2 weeks to solve.

They could have swept this under the rug ages ago, if that is what they wanted. Say that they are sorry that they don't have a DNA Match so the culprits must have left the Island already. Case Closed! Just another Unsolved Murder Case which are many all over the world, and by now nobody would even be talking about it.

No! This does not make any logical sense to frame anyone here. It is far more Logical to bury this then frame 2 innocent men which many here have said they have done. Why I now will also get attacked to because it makes Good Logical Sense. ,

This Thai gentleman is pretty well known and has certainly put his "Wedding Tackle" on the line with the following statement. A statement, that I can only assume he knows will not bring a legal case of "Slander", because it would really open a "Can of Worms".

View it on YouTube (with English subtitles, by clicking on Settings and selecting) following; https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=17&v=peaD7E6cUso

Thanks Samui and should be compulsory viewing, to get the English click on CC at bottom right of screen

[Rykbanlor]

Another part of the blame in my opinion has to rest with the british media they all jumped on the bandwagon of this young innocent backpacker being framed for murder,

Sean would have been a prime suspect he was meant to meet the victim, he has i weak alibi

People where seen on the beach playing a guitar, he has a guitar

I don't think I would of lost much sleep if the RTP had used him as a scapegoat ?

If the RTP had even a tiny inkling they thought he was involved wild horses would not have stopped them from arresting him. Looking at the state of their case, they might have done well to do so.

Don't you think it's a little odd he was let go so quickly and quietly? A potential suspect, a potential witness, and making allegations of death threats.

[spidermike007]

Lets suppose for a moment you are a local and you know who carried out this crime and feel that it is your honest duty to tell what you know.

Who exactly do you tell ? the police ? who would you trust, you could tell a foreign news team but there is nothing much they could publish because of defamation laws plus it would only be hearsay anyway

In the west the correct answer would be the police who if they think the info is viable would then investigate

Exactly what is wrong in this country, not only do farangs not trust the police but the locals don't either

Very well put. There are no higher authorities that want to hear the truth. No doubt they already know the truth, but find these innocent patsies to be a far more convenient solution. So, who would you turn to? As I have said many times, the family of the murderer is above the law. The really sad part is, he has probably done it before and he will probably do it again. Best to just stay away from Dark Tao altogether. Samui is a bit of a mess too, but they would never allow a local to get away with something like this. Never.

[stephenterry]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

Rape is a crime of violence?

No wonder I get a Boner every time I argue with my wife.

Come on Man! Rape is a Violent Crime, where perhaps taking over the control of a woman (or Man) and terrorizing them while having sex with them may be part of that pleasure. But this is different. The Motive for Rape is obvious!

Yes, rape is a crime of violence, power/domination, also tied into sexual gratification.

Thank you for that post and providing common ground we can agree on.

Here is a quote. I'm in no position to agree or contest it - take it how you want. But there is no lust or sexual gratification stated. Could this rapist fit the profile of Hannah's killer? And if so, would you consider he was pi**ed off, big time?

Anger rape The goal of this rapist is to humiliate, debase and hurt their victim; they express their contempt for their victim through physical violence and profane language. For these rapists, sex is a weapon to defile and degrade the victim, rape constitutes the ultimate expression of their anger. This rapist considers rape the ultimate offense they can commit against the victim.

Anger rape is characterized by physical brutality, much more physical force is used during the assault than would be necessary if the intent were simply to overpower the victim and achieve penetration. This type of offender attacks their victim by grabbing, striking and knocking the victim to the ground, beating them, tearing their clothes, and raping them.

The experience for the offender is one that is of conscious anger and rage.

[Tony121]

Lets suppose for a moment you are a local and you know who carried out this crime and feel that it is your honest duty to tell what you know.

Who exactly do you tell ? the police ? who would you trust, you could tell a foreign news team but there is nothing much they could publish because of defamation laws plus it would only be hearsay anyway

In the west the correct answer would be the police who if they think the info is viable would then investigate

Exactly what is wrong in this country, not only do farangs not trust the police but the locals don't either

Well if I was a local expat or tourist I would go to my Embassy then it would be for them to sort out who I met

If i was a local burmese (to be honest I would keep my mouth)

and if I was thai I would go to the police in Bangkok with the media

[GOLDBUGGY]

Let me tell you honestly. If I was in a Thai Jail for 11 months, and was facing the Death Penalty I don't think anything else could scare me more than that. If I knew would did this crime I would squawk like a Chicken Hawk a long time ago. Especially in front of a Judge who told me not to be afraid and tell if I knew.

If they were so drunk they could barely walk home, is what the 2 accused said and not that I agreed to this. I questioned this with drinking only 2 beers each. By why would they say that? You answered your own question. If they were so drunk how could they commit these murders and rape? There is absolutely no proof they were drunk or on drugs. All you have is there say so.

So since they are probably more scared now than they would be if they knew and pointed out the murders, what do we have left. A poor excuse maybe?

In the days following the murders and before they were arrested, no doubt the B2 would have heard rumours, etc on the grapevine. As it didn't involve them, but Thais (IMO) they carried on working. Their alibi was as normal as it could be - spent a pleasant night on a beach near their lodgings, played guitar, had a couple of beers, then went home to bed.

Fast forward to when the judge asked them if they knew who the real killers were. They're now stuck in an unsafe jail - incriminate anyone, especially local Thais and they're history. Better to keep shtum, as I'm sure most sensible innocents would. Shake their heads, blame it on the alcohol, and say nowt. Hope the lawyers can get them off the hook.

What can they do to prove their innocence if a case is stacked up against them, but 'knowing' that it is false? How do they begin? And that's the reason why they could be convicted, because the RTP have said so, despite not having any DNA evidence against them that can be substantiated/verified/validated. Anyone with the same innocent alibi could be in the dock, even you, Mr Reader, and there's nothing you could do about it.

I'm now 100% convinced of their non-guilt (from a legal perspective) following the deliberate failure of the RTP to provide retestable DNA samples, using excuses that are frankly dishonest, or admitting that there was no adequate chain of custody in place.

Enough said.

So you are basing their innocents on your distrust for the Thai Police. So even though they very well could have done this crime this will always remain the same with you. Well don't feel bad as it seems many here do to.

So then let them all go. Why stop fighting for just the 2 accused now? Fight for them all! We can send them all to your country and they can live right next door to your place. Right?

Sure!

[Tony121]

Another part of the blame in my opinion has to rest with the british media they all jumped on the bandwagon of this young innocent backpacker being framed for murder,

Sean would have been a prime suspect he was meant to meet the victim, he has i weak alibi

People where seen on the beach playing a guitar, he has a guitar

I don't think I would of lost much sleep if the RTP had used him as a scapegoat ?

If the RTP had even a tiny inkling they thought he was involved wild horses would not have stopped them from arresting him. Looking at the state of their case, they might have done well to do so.

Don't you think it's a little odd he was let go so quickly and quietly? A potential suspect, a potential witness, and making allegations of death threats.

So what you are saying is when the RTP charge a suspect they are wrong but when the let one go the are right ? bit hypocritical ?

[Rykbanlor]

Another part of the blame in my opinion has to rest with the british media they all jumped on the bandwagon of this young innocent backpacker being framed for murder,

Sean would have been a prime suspect he was meant to meet the victim, he has i weak alibi

People where seen on the beach playing a guitar, he has a guitar

I don't think I would of lost much sleep if the RTP had used him as a scapegoat ?

If the RTP had even a tiny inkling they thought he was involved wild horses would not have stopped them from arresting him. Looking at the state of their case, they might have done well to do so.

Don't you think it's a little odd he was let go so quickly and quietly? A potential suspect, a potential witness, and making allegations of death threats.

So what you are saying is when the RTP charge a suspect they are wrong but when the let one go the are right ? bit hypocritical ?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

[Tony121]

Another thing with Sean is he claimed that Mon and the copper were threatening to kill him, he managed to take a photo of them on the cashiers phone and post it to facebook,

So he would have had to taken the photo

maybe logged out of her facebook

logged into face book

attached the photo and paste.

Why didn't they just put a gun to his head and Take the phone of him ?

Why did they let him do it and wait for the police to turn up if he did the crime ?

[Darkknight666]

Also, as we have gone over and over again GB, you talk about motive like this intelligent student planned it all out rationally, whereas there is no doubt this was a crime of the moment that probably got out of hand, so I am sure whoever did it wasn't thinking rationally about all the repercussions it would bring about.

There you go twisting things again.

I never said they planned it out. I believe what they said when they first confessed to this crime to be true. I never doubted that since then either.

The rationality comes in when I heard they just so happen to be drunk and didn't see anything, during the time of the murders. Or finding David's Mobile Phone on the night he was murdered. Like having there DNA match, and being set up by someone. Like having the bad luck of being on the beach at that time. Like having the cigarettes also found by the log matching the DNA with Hannah. Like not having an alibi. Like...the list goes on and on.

It's such a shame all the CCTV camera's were out of action.

Would David and Hannah have had to walk past the log or was there a seperate entrance to the rocky area.?

Who says all the CCTV were out of action. Is it just because the Police has not told everyone everything they have as Evidence?

Which Police Force is the West discusses an ongoing Murder Trail? Would I be close if I say Zero!

The Prosecution still has about 62 Witnesses to call. Do you now who they are? Do you know what they are going to talk about? Do you know what evidence they may present? The Defense Team as about 20 Witnesses to call. Who are they and what are they going to say or present?

You are jumping to conclusions. Lets see how it all unfolds by the end of September, if it goes this long.

You know how many witnesses mean anything to this part of the case? None. When cops try to bribe a cab driver into corroborating their false story... Followed by Mon admonishing the cab driver on Facebook for doing so. Do you need people to present the stories for this? It's completely obvious to even the most casual observer that this case endless flaws. Only way to settle it now is via witnesses who were there or have knowledge from the suspects directly.

I hate replying to you because you're clearly a schill... May you be one of the many White fellows on Mons Facebook as a friend? Hmm... Something's in the water.... Something putrid.

Now, how many years would a Burmese get for raping a tourist? Less than 10? Is that fair? So you're alleging the B2 did this out of lust and when caught by david, instead of just going to jail for a portion of their life,, They decide to commit a heinous double murder which brings their punishment to DEATH?

I know bad guys, I know how bad guys think and act. I truly hope to feel terrible for all this nonsense GB.... I'll be here to ask when the <deleted> hits the fan.

[stephenterry]

In the days following the murders and before they were arrested, no doubt the B2 would have heard rumours, etc on the grapevine. As it didn't involve them, but Thais (IMO) they carried on working. Their alibi was as normal as it could be - spent a pleasant night on a beach near their lodgings, played guitar, had a couple of beers, then went home to bed.

Fast forward to when the judge asked them if they knew who the real killers were. They're now stuck in an unsafe jail - incriminate anyone, especially local Thais and they're history. Better to keep shtum, as I'm sure most sensible innocents would. Shake their heads, blame it on the alcohol, and say nowt. Hope the lawyers can get them off the hook.

What can they do to prove their innocence if a case is stacked up against them, but 'knowing' that it is false? How do they begin? And that's the reason why they could be convicted, because the RTP have said so, despite not having any DNA evidence against them that can be substantiated/verified/validated. Anyone with the same innocent alibi could be in the dock, even you, Mr Reader, and there's nothing you could do about it.

I'm now 100% convinced of their non-guilt (from a legal perspective) following the deliberate failure of the RTP to provide retestable DNA samples, using excuses that are frankly dishonest, or admitting that there was no adequate chain of custody in place.

Enough said.

GOLDBUGGY SAID

..

So you are basing their innocents on your distrust for the Thai Police. So even though they very well could have done this crime this will always remain the same with you. Well don't feel bad as it seems many here do to.

So then let them all go. Why stop fighting for just the 2 accused now? Fight for them all! We can send them all to your country and they can live right next door to your place. Right?

Sure!

I'm basing their non-guilt (note the phrase) on a failure by the RTP to be able to substantiate/verify/validate the DNA evidence against them, and to admit to not having a robust chain of custody in place. From a legal perspective that should be grounds not to accept the RTP's assertions. It's got nothing to with whether they are innocent or not.

I live here in Thailand, and there are many Burmese families residing close by in very basic accommodation. I have zero problems with them, in fact they make better neighbours than many opinionated Farangs I have had the displeasure to meet.

[Rykbanlor]

Another thing with Sean is he claimed that Mon and the copper were threatening to kill him, he managed to take a photo of them on the cashiers phone and post it to facebook,

So he would have had to taken the photo

maybe logged out of her facebook

logged into face book

attached the photo and paste.

Why didn't they just put a gun to his head and Take the phone of him ?

Why did they let him do it and wait for the police to turn up if he did the crime ?

Because maybe even they are smart enough not to do that in front of the cashier in a public place would be my guess.

About your last sentence, who do you mean?

[boomerangutang]

(addressed to Goldbuggy): How do you know Monsod has his dna tested? He refused to allow the result be public. So, his dna test is just rumour and hearsay.

If he is so worried people dont believe him why not allow the so called test be looked at?

I can't speak for GB, but I believe NS's DNA was typed correctly. The big issue is whether it was really compared to DNA found in the victim? It's so much easier for the top cop to simply declare "NS's DNA didn't match, and by the way, we're not sending his DNA to the Brits, because they already know we're doing a great job, and they don't question anything we're doing."

If the first 3 days of the trial are any indication, the declaration, by the same top cops re; "The DNA from the two Burmese suspects match the DNA found with the victim" .....is similarly a lie. For this reason, and others, I dearly hope there's no mistrial declared. I want to see the everything the RTP and prosecution have to show. If they continue to self-destruct, then everyone concerned needs to see it. If nothing else, this trial may prompt RTP to instill a bit of professionalism and objectivity in how they do their jobs. ....and may also get the RTP to think twice - before trying to nail scapegoats in the future. RTP and the junta PM were broadsided by social media, and they're still trying to figure how to counter the truth with the weight of their lies.

RTP and Junta represent billions of baht in assets ....verses Two Burmese boys who are worth about 45 baht on a good day.

[Tony121]

Another thing with Sean is he claimed that Mon and the copper were threatening to kill him, he managed to take a photo of them on the cashiers phone and post it to facebook,

So he would have had to taken the photo

maybe logged out of her facebook

logged into face book

attached the photo and paste.

Why didn't they just put a gun to his head and Take the phone of him ?

Why did they let him do it and wait for the police to turn up if he did the crime ?

Because maybe even they are smart enough not to do that in front of the cashier in a public place would be my guess.

About your last sentence, who do you mean?

Sean called the police to the store on the phone,

He is the biggest Mafia on the island and he is scared to show his gun are you serious ?

[stephenterry]

(addressed to Goldbuggy): How do you know Monsod has his dna tested? He refused to allow the result be public. So, his dna test is just rumour and hearsay.

If he is so worried people dont believe him why not allow the so called test be looked at?

I can't speak for GB, but I believe NS's DNA was typed correctly. The big issue is whether it was really compared to DNA found in the victim? It's so much easier for the top cop to simply declare "NS's DNA didn't match, and by the way, we're not sending his DNA to the Brits, because they already know we're doing a great job, and they don't question anything we're doing."

If the first 3 days of the trial are any indication, the declaration, by the same top cops re; "The DNA from the two Burmese suspects match the DNA found with the victim" .....is similarly a lie. For this reason, and others, I dearly hope there's no mistrial declared. I want to see the everything the RTP and prosecution have to show. If they continue to self-destruct, then then everyone concerned needs to see it. If nothing else, this trial may prompt RTP to instill a bit of professionalism and objectivity in how they do their jobs. ....and may also get the RTP to think twice - before trying to nail scapegoats in the future. RTP and the junta PM were broadsided by social media, and they're still trying to figure how to counter the truth with the weight of their lies.

RTP and Junta represent billions of baht in assets ....verses Two Burmese boys who are worth about 45 baht before going to the snack canteen.

That's not fair, Boom. The B2 bought a pack of fags, and presumably at some point, two or three bottles of beer. And gasoline for their motor-scooter is about 100 baht a refill. Must be coming up to 450 baht, which makes a big dent into the billions of baht the RTP and Junta have...

Love this phrase, though re the RTP, it's brilliant:

and they're still trying to figure how to counter the truth with the weight of their lies.

[thailandchilli]

Another thing with Sean is he claimed that Mon and the copper were threatening to kill him, he managed to take a photo of them on the cashiers phone and post it to facebook,

So he would have had to taken the photo

maybe logged out of her facebook

logged into face book

attached the photo and paste.

Why didn't they just put a gun to his head and Take the phone of him ?

Why did they let him do it and wait for the police to turn up if he did the crime ?

Because maybe even they are smart enough not to do that in front of the cashier in a public place would be my guess.

About your last sentence, who do you mean?

Sean called the police to the store on the phone,

He is the biggest Mafia on the island and he is scared to show his gun are you serious ?

Sean called the police to the store?? Are you serious, he had Mon and a policeman threatening him! Sean did not call anyone he put a message out on his facebook that was quickly responded to. After that he fled and slept in the jungle, then to a bar to sleep and then only came out under the protection of a UK embassy official.

Why on earth would Mon have a gun. Much more plausible is the story Sean told ie they would see him hang.

[Rykbanlor]

Another thing with Sean is he claimed that Mon and the copper were threatening to kill him, he managed to take a photo of them on the cashiers phone and post it to facebook,

So he would have had to taken the photo

maybe logged out of her facebook

logged into face book

attached the photo and paste.

Why didn't they just put a gun to his head and Take the phone of him ?

Why did they let him do it and wait for the police to turn up if he did the crime ?

Because maybe even they are smart enough not to do that in front of the cashier in a public place would be my guess.

About your last sentence, who do you mean?

Sean called the police to the store on the phone,

He is the biggest Mafia on the island and he is scared to show his gun are you serious ?

I didn't say scared. Just because someone has power it doesn't mean they will necessarily just run around shooting the place up willy nilly. Particularly at such a sensitive time.