When I hear other farangs dissing Chiang Mai ... I get irritated

[chiang mai]

Perhaps I missed it but did everyone agree there is a single place anywhere on the planet that is perfect in every way and never criticized by anyone, a rhetorical question of course. Perhaps we all need to be more thick skinned, especially in this age of the internet and the troll. "You can please some of the people ......", and all that.

Yorkshire?

Well naturally and of course, I meant apart from Yorkshire.

[MaeJoMTB]

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

Racist bigot! That's a bit dramatic isn't it? Is a Farang using the term Farang really a racist bigot? I feel sorry for you if that is how you see it. It Doesn't bother me. If it was said in a nasty tone it would, just like any other insult, but if it is said with no intention of being offensive I take it for what it is. Why be offended if offense was not intended? You have to bear in mind that on the whole, I don't care what people I don't know think of me, which of course includes the vast majority of people here.

But this thread is about 'dissing' and 'oafish' behavior, and everyone knows 'farang' is a word that 'irritates' a percentage of foreigners.

Why why use it if you don't intend to be 'oafish'.

I don't see any other Thai words randomly mixed into the OP, as as OP says he carefully selects his words.

Sure it might be acceptable from a Thai, a lot of them don't know any better, poor education, xenophobic government, etc.

But from an educated western person, nah, offence is intended, they know better, they're being 'oafish'.

[MaeJoMTB]

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

I think you are wrong.

Farang comes from the word "French" in French literally:

FRANÇAIS ... FARANGSET ... FARANG

Remember that France administered Indochina (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) until the early 20th century.

No insulting or derogatory sense then.

and

'Nigger/Negro' comes from the Portuguese word for black, so by your theory, perfectly acceptable in everyday use.

'Charlie' comes from the American radio designation for Viet Cong = Victor Charlie = Charlie, so also perfectly acceptable.

'Paki' just an abbreviation of Pakistani, the list is endless ........ but all OK with you.

There are legitimate words in the Thai language for foreigners, without bringing skin colour into the discussion, as a previous poster stated ' kon tang chat', no need to exclude foreigners of other skin colours in any non-racist, non-bigoted posts. But hang on a minute, OP isn't Thai, why is he using one Thai (possibly insulting) word in his post ........ yeah, we all know why.

Note to OP,

You claim to choose words carefully.

I think less of you because of your post.

I think less of you because of your attempt at justification.

Edited July 13, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Pinot]

Everytime I go to Chiang Mai I can't wait to leave. Why anyone lives there is beyond me.

If you're defensive about that shit hole, what else are you on about?

[chiang mai]

Everytime I go to Chiang Mai I can't wait to leave. Why anyone lives there is beyond me.

If you're defensive about that shit hole, what else are you on about?

May I inquire the name of the shithole town where you live, please?

[daoyai]

I like CM, it suits me for now, nice people, good eats, got a social circle... to most i am a farang though occasionally a "khek" based on my complexion. .... MaeJoMTB and Nancy are both farang .... I don't mind if others don't like this place, i don't always like it but i know that simply reflects my state of mind at the moment. As to the reputation of a center of debauchery and lust, I got to try harder to keep up with that.

[mikebell]

i suppose you should be glad you didnt settle in pattaya.

I realise it's fashionable to diss Pattaya but I experience similar feelings to the OP when I hear it. I moved here from BKK because, having seen the tourist attractions, I grew tired of the sprawl; the traffic; the fumes; the heat. I knew nothing of Pattaya's reputation as Sin City.

I saw the same sex stalls as BKK but with cleaner air; shorter traveling distances and cooler temperatures. Every city has problem areas which are not safe to visit drunk and/or late at night. I appreciate the variety of food; cheap accommodation, cheap convenient travel and lots of beautiful women everywhere doing shopping and other household chores not necessarily involved in the sex industry.

There are things wrong with Pattaya but many of these things are inherently Thai & are found everywhere.

I like living here.

[Songhua]

I wouldn't 'diss' the place but I no longer like Chiang Mai therefore I no longer go there.

[jacko45k]

What are you complaining 'bout, I live in Pattaya!!!

[bristolgeoff]

let them carry on,and they will never know the true pleasure of living in a great place like chiang mai

[Loptr]

Oh dear, not the "farang" thread re-tread again...

Here's news for you, any descriptive term can hold either a positive, negative or neutral connotation dependent upon the context of it's use... If you still don't get it, read the sentence again, slowly...

I guess those that are offended by the term farang are also incensed by terms like, asian, latin, middle eastern and oriental...

[ARISTIDE]

Thai also call African people farang sometime, it doesn't mean anything. Sometime an Asian with an American accent are called farang as well. Farang in Thai never has any racial meaning at all.

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

[ARISTIDE]

Or it could derives from the word "foreign"!! English diplomat and French were here at the same period so we never know.

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

I think you are wrong.

Farang comes from the word "French" in French literally:

FRANÇAIS ... FARANGSET ... FARANG

Remember that France administered Indochina (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) until the early 20th century.

No insulting or derogatory sense then.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ARISTIDE

[hml367]

This is a link that was given to me by a Thai citizen with a degree from CMU in Thai language:

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=RssPMqruX6kC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=farang+loan+word&source=bl&ots=nFRwsw6JdG&sig=DH88sogvfqIMx9Rgg7jRtzB4HVI&hl=th&sa=X&ei=zXFYVfS2B8u1uQT_kYHACw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=farang%20loan%20word&f=false

[CMKiwi]

Everytime I go to Chiang Mai I can't wait to leave. Why anyone lives there is beyond me.

If you're defensive about that shit hole, what else are you on about?

Then why go to Chiang Mai at all if you dislike it so much?

Can you explain your second sentence....it doesn`t really make sense.

[Roota]

But I am not certain that tang chart is not actually worse than farang.

Well then, so you'll know: chaao taang chaat is polite, farang is colloquial. Neither one is in the slightest way pejorative.

Thai has some real ethnic insults (like jek for Chinese or khaek for Indians/Middle Easterners) but farang ain't one.

[NancyL]

At the risk of turning this into another thread about the term "farang" yes there are Thai people who consider it a perjorative. Or at least a coarse word. Kind of like referring to the Uighur refugees as breeding animals (i.e. "litters" of children)

actually, after spendig nearly 5 years in Thailand, I met a Thai person who refers to foreigners by using the word "tang chart" or something similar. so, it was only after 5 years that I learned the racially neutral way to refer to foreigners.

But I am not certain that tang chart is not actually worse than farang.

Actually the term is "kon tang chart" just as the proper term for Thai people is "kon Thai" not Thais. It's a little bit rude for us to talk about "the Thais" rather than "the Thai people". In the Thai language, the word "Thai" is an adjective, not a noun.

And Manarak, I don't know why it took you five years in Thailand to meet a Thai person who referred to foreigners as "kon tang chart". The description is commonly used in formal Thai, for example in business and government. Or if you listen to the news on TV. It is a neutral term, certainly not a pejorative!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

But this thread is about 'dissing' and 'oafish' behavior, and everyone knows 'farang' is a word that 'irritates' a percentage of foreigners.

Why why use it if you don't intend to be 'oafish'.

It's because that percentage are people I'd rather not associate with in the first place. I can wait until they gain a better understanding of their surroundings and the language, and once that happens I can still associate with them when that time comes. Or they leave before that, which is fine too.

Anyway, this is very not on topic. It rarely is.

It`s because how Thailand has been depicted in the past, especially by the media, and still happening today that so many people living outside the country have negative views about Thailand. I describe it as the western perspective.

Also Thai visa members have not done much to show Thailand in a brighter light. Threads and posts constantly knocking everything Thai, where the term, Thainerss, has taken on a whole new negative meaning here on Thai visa. Very few likes and populars are gained by complimentary comments regarding the Thai people and Thailand on these forums. In big movies that have included Thailand in the story lines, they usually only show the bar areas that of course gives the semblance that the whole country is like that. Even one of my American cousins who lives in the States says; in Thailand you are never far from a brothel and she refuses to believe otherwise.

That last bit is kind of true though. Perhaps not a brothel, mostly because people's definition of brothel varies, but if I can extend that to finding a sex worker or at the very least some hostess/pretty to entertain, then it certainly applies.

Edited July 13, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[manarak]

At the risk of turning this into another thread about the term "farang" yes there are Thai people who consider it a perjorative. Or at least a coarse word. Kind of like referring to the Uighur refugees as breeding animals (i.e. "litters" of children)

actually, after spendig nearly 5 years in Thailand, I met a Thai person who refers to foreigners by using the word "tang chart" or something similar. so, it was only after 5 years that I learned the racially neutral way to refer to foreigners.

But I am not certain that tang chart is not actually worse than farang.

Actually the term is "kon tang chart" just as the proper term for Thai people is "kon Thai" not Thais. It's a little bit rude for us to talk about "the Thais" rather than "the Thai people". In the Thai language, the word "Thai" is an adjective, not a noun.

And Manarak, I don't know why it took you five years in Thailand to meet a Thai person who referred to foreigners as "kon tang chart". The description is commonly used in formal Thai, for example in business and government. Or if you listen to the news on TV. It is a neutral term, certainly not a pejorative!

hmmm... are you one of the very rare women with asperger's ?

(I am an aspie)

I made my comment of "tang chart" being potentially worse than farang a little tongue in cheek about reverse racism, because "tang chart" could be anyone, while farang is used for caucasians.

[teacherpaul]

For some reason I never really get what the OP describes..

People don't e-mail me with any horrors, and also in person people don't seem to think I'm here for anything nefarious or illegal.

Mesquite added: "I had an American tourist in Thailand ask me why I lived here, what are you, a pedophile?"..

I think I would just be perplexed by something like that.. Also my response would likely be that she's here too.. Why did she visit, is she a pedophile?.. That would likely be my response.

As an aside though, I don't blame people in general who have been somewhat brainwashed by media reports (though there is a strong decline in these compared to 10-15 years ago) to be pro-active about potential child abuse. They're trying to do the right thing for society, so I can have some understanding of that.

I got such treatment!

I got harassed by two UK women because they deemed my GF to be too young, I should be ashamed of myself, etc.

I was 39 yo and my GF 32 at the time ?

I hope you gave them a mouthful back. It must be annoying when 2 idiots like that come onto your manor and start mouthing off as to what they believe to be right or wrong.

[FolkGuitar]

Farang as an insult? How about 'American' as an insult? We've all seen it used that way often enough right here in Thai Visa.

But at the same time, we've seen these same words used simply as descriptors, with no pejorative implications at all.

It's not the word. It's the context.

[teacherpaul]

At the risk of turning this into another thread about the term "farang" yes there are Thai people who consider it a perjorative. Or at least a coarse word. Kind of like referring to the Uighur refugees as breeding animals (i.e. "litters" of children)

actually, after spendig nearly 5 years in Thailand, I met a Thai person who refers to foreigners by using the word "tang chart" or something similar. so, it was only after 5 years that I learned the racially neutral way to refer to foreigners.

But I am not certain that tang chart is not actually worse than farang.

Actually the term is "kon tang chart" just as the proper term for Thai people is "kon Thai" not Thais. It's a little bit rude for us to talk about "the Thais" rather than "the Thai people". In the Thai language, the word "Thai" is an adjective, not a noun.

And Manarak, I don't know why it took you five years in Thailand to meet a Thai person who referred to foreigners as "kon tang chart". The description is commonly used in formal Thai, for example in business and government. Or if you listen to the news on TV. It is a neutral term, certainly not a pejorative!

It's not rude at all to say "Thais" or "the Thais", in the same way as one would say "The Brits" or "The Germans", unless you are overly-PC. In which case you are in need of a personality transplant.

[Trujillo]

Sticking mandible in mouth even further,...

That would be interesting to see....

[yardrunner]

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

why if you are referring to someone who is not of Asian descent but do not know what continent/country they come from not call them farang. I do not think it is disrespectful if used in this way

[1FinickyOne]

OP - - to go back to your original point, yes, I see the same thing - there is what appears to be quite a double standard at times… I think if just one week of the normal news from the USA occurred here, there would be a travel ban issued urging people to stay away. It seems there it is considered, isolated incidents, where here it paints the whole country. The power of the media is incredible. People believe what they read and see - - though it is often not an accurate depiction.

Since this has turned to referendum about the word farang - I think it depends where and how it is used. It is quite commonly used amongst Thais, and mostly not in a pejorative sense, but descriptive. At my local temple massage in an area w/few farang living here, a masseuse might tell me that there was another farang who came in recently. They may also tell me they would love to have a farang boyfriend. I don't see how that is being used as a negative, which is not to say that it can't be, just that I rarely have heard it used that way… as a general term, it doesn't bother me much, but on a personal basis, I don't care for it. My family calls me "khun" or by my nickname. If a neighbor is visiting and calls me the "farang" - I will politely correct them and tell them as a guest on my property, they can call me by name. so, it is surely a mixed bag… but the concept of politically correct has not arrived here and that on the whole, might not be so bad...

Part of being in another culture is that it is different in not only language & food, but in ways of relating to people and seeing the world. It is not easy to approve or disapprove w/o a lot of knowledge of the people and culture. This takes ability to observe, understand spoken language and learning. It takes a lot of time and experience. It can be amusing for some that things are quite a bit different and at times there are frustrations for all of us that the system does not function in the same stream of logic that we have been accustomed to and assume as right.

After 12 years of living out of tourist and city areas, I could give many many examples of this.

[Tywais]

In the Thai language, the word "Thai" is an adjective, not a noun.

I assume that is a typing error as Thai is certainly a noun in English or Thai. It can also be used as an adjective depending on context, just like in English where some words can be an adjective or noun.

But there are dozens of topics with the same circular arguments on 'farang' on Thaivisa so no need to continue it here and going off topic.

[dotpoom]

I get pissed off when white people call other white people 'farangs'

No excuse for being a racist bigot when you SHOULD know better.

"farang" is a Thai word, should we also not use other Thai words such as "Sawasdee".

Selective use of another language does not imply racism or bigotry in any way, unless unusually sensitive!

Ciao

Have to agree...I have always understood it to mean "Foreigner"....because I think that's what Thai people mean when they use it. I have heard friends say it derives from their word for French people...but that seems to be news to a Thai person. If it does mean "Foreigner" what's the harm in it. I do admit that I was upset by the word when I first came here, but thank God my skin has got a bit thicker over the past few years.

[stonycan]

I had no issues in pattaya or chang mai . I didnt hang out in places i didnt belong just like i do at home. Was treated with the same respect i gave . I miss thailand and cant wait to get back

[CNXTim]

I don't particularly seek the company of other farang (but often have a coffee, beer or chat with 'em).

I don't need to eat farang food although there are plenty of options for home cooking or restaurants ( hi Marco)

I don't like the smog season but it is no real big deal to me.

I don't notice the corruption cause I don't let it affect me.

I don't feel threatened on the streets.

I don't get aggrieved by some of the "not so beautiful" sights, there are plenty of nice ones to counter them.

After 11 years, I am yet to have a boring day.

The only people who could annoy me (if I let them) are negative or just plain ignorant ex-pats.

A simple ride on the scooter around town, meeting a gorgeous, immaculately groomed Thai lady friend for lunch or coffee makes me smile (lots) and rejuvenates the soul.

Life is good in the"Rose of the North"

[Konini]

Farang as an insult? How about 'American' as an insult? We've all seen it used that way often enough right here in Thai Visa.

But at the same time, we've seen these same words used simply as descriptors, with no pejorative implications at all.

It's not the word. It's the context.

Exactly. If I use the word 'American' as a descriptor to explain, justify or excuse someone's behaviour, the underlying meaning can be anything; questioning, affectionate, humorous, condescending, derisive and much, much more.

It isn't the word American that matters. The only thing that is important is the way I say American. Or German, or Spanish or crazy or outspoken or just about anything else used to describe something or someone.

(In Malaysia they don't have this problem, they call us all European, which can have an underlying meaning of questioning, affectionate, humorous, condescending, derisive and much, much more, depending on......).