Bangkok coffee shop faces fine for charging customer for 'business talk'

[jpinx]

Why is this such a big deal? In a place I use they give you a password for the wifi when you get (and pay for) your coffee and the connection is good for 30 minutes....

P.S. The system is automatic -- the password is printed on the receipt when you pay

Edited July 13, 2015 by jpinx

[ddavidovsky]

Good policy for those of us who want to go for a coffee and not feel like we're sitting in an office. Boncafe sounds like the place for me.

There was apparently a sign on the table displaying the fee for business meetings, so this group has no excuse. The group of 4 also only had 6 drinks in two hours. That means a couple of them sat for two hours over one drink. If the cafe is busy, that table must have been worth more. These customers were taking liberties. Still, 1,000 baht seems punitive. 500 baht an hour would be more reasonable.

[ballpoint]

244 user(s) are reading this topic

Come along now, either make a post or move along. Others want to use this thread too you know. Stop hogging it.

[Christie Paul]

It's very simple.

If you want to charge people for things, that's fine, but you must put it on the menu.

A seat with natural sunlight - 5% extra or (whatever per hour), it's the customers choice to order or not.

Consume it if you want to.

It is a simple contractual right to be informed and have a choice of what your obligation is.

If I was told that there's a surcharge for meetings over a certain length of time, I'd be willing to pay or make the decision to go elsewhere. It would be a simple analysis cost/benefit decision. No problem.

But you can't have an arbitrary system to value and charge for a service that is applied at the discretion of someone who estimates its value to you on the fly.

[robblok]

I'm going to go against the bulk of prevailing opinion on this matter.

I don't see a problem with people going into coffee shops and talking.

I've had plenty of work meetings in coffee shops. I used to be a community worker in the real world. I found meetings in coffee shops to be convenient, convivial, informal and best of all economically catered.

This is a great way to encourage custom and IMHO, no worse than a group of friends talking.

One important point here is where do these shops stop charging for incidental circumstances?

Should friends be charged more than singles. Its ridiculous to think that shops can charge differently for the circumstances under which there products are consumed?

Its also discriminatory.

We all have our prejudices and I personally would like to ban people wearing lycra, mothers with children and worst of all geeks with laptops who buy one coffee, use free wifi for hours on end and only consume a single coffee, sitting at the best tables when there is limited seating available.

Oh and anyone who orders a Chai Latte.

Oh anyone who corrupts coffee with low fat milk - they should definitely be taken out the back and shot in the face.

Depends, if you buy 1 cup of coffee and expect to hog a few seats for 2 hours or if you drink a few cups and other consumption.

If I had a busy but small shop id make sure that I would not get your kind of customers. If I had a big shop that is quiet i would welcome your kind of customers.

So on high value locations where you pay a premium for rent and where its always busy you don't need people like that.

[arthurwait]

Seemingly he didn't pay, was instead advised they do not cater for business meetings, so stop complaining & get a room you cheapskate.............coffee is cheaper at home and nobody has to listen to your half baked business plan while you hog the good seats.

Come on it must be embarrassing taking your business clients home to see that your 5000 Baht a month condo is smaller than your fortuner.

[americansiam]

With smart phones and free wi-fi, some customers at cafes and restaurants are leisurely occupying seats that could go to customers that are waiting for a table. A couple months ago I was at Asiatique and all the tables inside and outside were taken. I could accept that; however, I became hot under the collar when I saw over 5-6 tables of young Thais just sitting there looking at their phones. They were done with their icecream. I asked the waiter if he could ask one of the tables if they could leave since they had all finished their icecream and he was too afraid to ask. So I politely went up and asked if they didn't mind if I could have their table because my friends and I wanted to order some icecream like they had an hour before. They politely got out of their seats and left. I am guilty of sitting at a Starbucks way beyond I finish my coffee looking at the newspaper or phone; however, this is when it is half empty and I know there are plenty of seats. This frustration needs to be discussed in public just as smoking in restaurants was an issue ten years ago.

[sammygood]

they can start to implement that in every fast food where you see students and teachers doing homework, holding tables, with just one drink

[Eagleizer]

Good for them, about time something was done about that kind of selfish customer, pity they didn't collect the fee.

If it wasn`t so damn expensive, they could probably have solved this bill over a cup of coffee...

[ldiablo]

@rameetindallas. I much as I liked your post, what's not to say that there wasn't 6 people at the meeting.

[chasntong]

Good for them, about time something was done about that kind of selfish customer, pity they didn't collect the fee.

Excellent idea, makes more room for people using it as a coffee shop.

[irwinfc]

TV must've left this picture out by mistake (well the link on the original post didn't have this picture, too). can someone please translate?

[Reigntax]

Yes you see this a lot people using free wife and the space in places like this. Its crazy just because you buy some food you can't hold complete meetings there and deprive the company of turnover because you keep tables occupied.

I agree with what everyone else is saying.

You often see people (foreigners) here asking where they can work o

You often see people (foreigners) here asking where they can work on free WIFE i n free WIFE i can understand companies not wanting these kind of people in their shops. especially shops that are real busy.

Do you have to keep the free wife or can you return her at the end of the day?

I don't disagree with what you say in principle....I disagree with the manner in which the establishment handled it.

Agree, "asking where they can work on free WIFE" should not be done in public and yes, I assume you have to keep her and I doubt she will be free.

[CanInBKK]

TV must've left this picture out by mistake (well the link on the original post didn't have this picture, too). can someone please translate?

I'm on mobile so I can't zoom in but I can see 1,000 baht at the bottom of the sign so presumably this is where it states the "loitering fee" of 1,000 baht/hour

As a note this incident took place at a Boncafe which is actually very busy during weekdays. With at least 3-4 office towers in that area and given that they serve full meals (not just coffee) it's reasonable that their opportunity cost would be 1,000baht/hour for a table for four (each person ordering an appetizer, a main, and a coffee).

[bamukloy]

Good policy for those of us who want to go for a coffee and not feel like we're sitting in an office. Boncafe sounds like the place for me.

There was apparently a sign on the table displaying the fee for business meetings, so this group has no excuse. The group of 4 also only had 6 drinks in two hours. That means a couple of them sat for two hours over one drink. If the cafe is busy, that table must have been worth more. These customers were taking liberties. Still, 1,000 baht seems punitive. 500 baht an hour would be more reasonable.

Agreed, but maybe the 1000bht was based on assumed lost sales.

What would be the average customer count per hour? And what would the average customer spend?

Presuming the average customer sale was 200 baht,

If the tables were full of these low class freeloaders, the 1000baht pays for only 5 customers that would walk away without buying anything because they couldnt get a table.

Sounds reasonable to me.

But i guess to satisfy these skinflints the charge would be fairer if they stated..

" in the case that all tables are full, a charge of x baht will apply"

Being a former business owner myself, id suggest there are many places in the world where owners/managers have to take time out of their busy day to go out and politely ask scroungers to speed it up... when others are waiting or business is being lost to these lingerers.

Its the same when some keenok farang goes to a pub and parks his one self at a table for 4 in front of a tv when top billing sport is on and sits there for 2 hours on a small bottle of water.

no no get rid of em!

I can sort of understand it for Thais, but please, you deperado farang english teachers, at least rent in a condo complex that has a library/meeting room and get students to come there.

Mine has a lovely one, huge, many seats, air con able to be used and always empty except for 1 or 2.

Failing that why not give lessons in library of the students schools. They are usually empty also.

its not that hard

[djayz]

This is hardly newsworthy.

[little mary sunshine]

Don't HOG the coffee shop....It's not your

Office.....fine B5000 not 2000

[maderaroja]

฿2,000 for a two hour meeting is a reasonable charge. Go rent a hotel room to have your meeting.

[realenglish1]

I would throw the owner of the Coffee Shop under the bus

[lildragon]

Good policy for those of us who want to go for a coffee and not feel like we're sitting in an office. Boncafe sounds like the place for me.

There was apparently a sign on the table displaying the fee for business meetings, so this group has no excuse. The group of 4 also only had 6 drinks in two hours. That means a couple of them sat for two hours over one drink. If the cafe is busy, that table must have been worth more. These customers were taking liberties. Still, 1,000 baht seems punitive. 500 baht an hour would be more reasonable.

Agreed, but maybe the 1000bht was based on assumed lost sales.

What would be the average customer count per hour? And what would the average customer spend?

Presuming the average customer sale was 200 baht,

If the tables were full of these low class freeloaders, the 1000baht pays for only 5 customers that would walk away without buying anything because they couldnt get a table.

Sounds reasonable to me.

But i guess to satisfy these skinflints the charge would be fairer if they stated..

" in the case that all tables are full, a charge of x baht will apply"

Being a former business owner myself, id suggest there are many places in the world where owners/managers have to take time out of their busy day to go out and politely ask scroungers to speed it up... when others are waiting or business is being lost to these lingerers.

Its the same when some keenok farang goes to a pub and parks his one self at a table for 4 in front of a tv when top billing sport is on and sits there for 2 hours on a small bottle of water.

no no get rid of em!

I can sort of understand it for Thais, but please, you deperado farang english teachers, at least rent in a condo complex that has a library/meeting room and get students to come there.

Mine has a lovely one, huge, many seats, air con able to be used and always empty except for 1 or 2.

Failing that why not give lessons in library of the students schools. They are usually empty also.

its not that hard

None of my students study at university, my condo is not equipped with a meeting room and my students actually choose to meet there.

I buy something, my students buy something. Everyone else in there sits and nurses a drink for hours while they do their respective things. Why are you singling out us teachers?

[mikemac]

I'm going to go against the bulk of prevailing opinion on this matter.

I don't see a problem with people going into coffee shops and talking.

I've had plenty of work meetings in coffee shops. I used to be a community worker in the real world. I found meetings in coffee shops to be convenient, convivial, informal and best of all economically catered.

This is a great way to encourage custom and IMHO, no worse than a group of friends talking.

One important point here is where do these shops stop charging for incidental circumstances?

Should friends be charged more than singles. Its ridiculous to think that shops can charge differently for the circumstances under which there products are consumed?

Its also discriminatory.

We all have our prejudices and I personally would like to ban people wearing lycra, mothers with children and worst of all geeks with laptops who buy one coffee, use free wifi for hours on end and only consume a single coffee, sitting at the best tables when there is limited seating available.

Oh and anyone who orders a Chai Latte.

Oh anyone who corrupts coffee with low fat milk - they should definitely be taken out the back and shot in the face.

Umm, I don't think you are allowed to shoot someone in the face over using low fat milk in coffee, not even in Thailand.

Having said that if I ever read a story in the paper or online about someone doing just that I would probably believe it.

[newatthis]

lildragon

Maybe I'm too hard, but this "everyone else" phrase is a terrible excuse.

Edited July 13, 2015 by newatthis

[maderaroja]

Good policy for those of us who want to go for a coffee and not feel like we're sitting in an office. Boncafe sounds like the place for me.

There was apparently a sign on the table displaying the fee for business meetings, so this group has no excuse. The group of 4 also only had 6 drinks in two hours. That means a couple of them sat for two hours over one drink. If the cafe is busy, that table must have been worth more. These customers were taking liberties. Still, 1,000 baht seems punitive. 500 baht an hour would be more reasonable.

Agreed, but maybe the 1000bht was based on assumed lost sales.

What would be the average customer count per hour? And what would the average customer spend?

Presuming the average customer sale was 200 baht,

If the tables were full of these low class freeloaders, the 1000baht pays for only 5 customers that would walk away without buying anything because they couldnt get a table.

Sounds reasonable to me.

But i guess to satisfy these skinflints the charge would be fairer if they stated..

" in the case that all tables are full, a charge of x baht will apply"

Being a former business owner myself, id suggest there are many places in the world where owners/managers have to take time out of their busy day to go out and politely ask scroungers to speed it up... when others are waiting or business is being lost to these lingerers.

Its the same when some keenok farang goes to a pub and parks his one self at a table for 4 in front of a tv when top billing sport is on and sits there for 2 hours on a small bottle of water.

no no get rid of em!

I can sort of understand it for Thais, but please, you deperado farang english teachers, at least rent in a condo complex that has a library/meeting room and get students to come there.

Mine has a lovely one, huge, many seats, air con able to be used and always empty except for 1 or 2.

Failing that why not give lessons in library of the students schools. They are usually empty also.

its not that hard

None of my students study at university, my condo is not equipped with a meeting room and my students actually choose to meet there.

I buy something, my students buy something. Everyone else in there sits and nurses a drink for hours while they do their respective things. Why are you singling out us teachers?

You are charging a fee for your classes, they students are paying you that fee, your are operating a business. Rent a room and meet as long as you want. Leave the cafe to those who are eating and drinking. The same goes for WIFI users.

[oneday]

A business should be able to charge whatever they want, as long as they post it and give fair warning.

If business talk @ 1000 per hour was not on the menu then it can't be charged.

[masuk]

I'm going to go against the bulk of prevailing opinion on this matter.

I don't see a problem with people going into coffee shops and talking.

I've had plenty of work meetings in coffee shops. I used to be a community worker in the real world. I found meetings in coffee shops to be convenient, convivial, informal and best of all economically catered.

This is a great way to encourage custom and IMHO, no worse than a group of friends talking.

One important point here is where do these shops stop charging for incidental circumstances?

Should friends be charged more than singles. Its ridiculous to think that shops can charge differently for the circumstances under which there products are consumed?

Its also discriminatory.

We all have our prejudices and I personally would like to ban people wearing lycra, mothers with children and worst of all geeks with laptops who buy one coffee, use free wifi for hours on end and only consume a single coffee, sitting at the best tables when there is limited seating available.

Oh and anyone who orders a Chai Latte.

Oh anyone who corrupts coffee with low fat milk - they should definitely be taken out the back and shot in the face.

Who got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning???

What a charming disposition.

[fish fingers]

The story on this is that the staff at Boncafe did it as a joke and warning as they were pretty fed up with the customer.

The customer was a bit stupid and took it seriously, then lost face and as a result went to the media

[NancyL]

The story on this is that the staff at Boncafe did it as a joke and warning as they were pretty fed up with the customer.

The customer was a bit stupid and took it seriously, then lost face and as a result went to the media

Hmm, makes you wonder if the customer had done it before at this Boncafe.

[arunsakda]

In Dallas' Starbucks Coffee Shops, it is common for people, who would normally work from home (on their computer), to set up shop there and Starbucks welcomes their patronage. Many of my Thai friends have business meetings at Bangkok Starbucks and never a complaint or extra charge. As long as they are buying product, it shouldn't matter if they are doing business or just being lay-about. I see from the bill that he bought two drinks every 20 minutes.

If this cafe' didn't post their policy on the menu or at the entrance, that is not right and they deserve the Bt. 10,000 fine. Say what you want about Starbucks but they are business friendly.

BTW, for those of you who are ignorant about how business is done, some people actually have business luncheons, and horror of horrors, discuss business over evening meals... at restaurants no less.

.

In Waikiki it is common for homeless people to to hold forth for hours in Starbucks, charging their mobiles, and nursing a small drip coffee whilst they read every word of a New York Times they stole or somebody else paid for. Last time I was there one of them had body odour so foul that I could not stand near him for a few moments to wait for my order. The staff unconcerned with the negative effect on sales. Legal perhaps but does not make it right necessarily. Recently with the proliferation of free Wifi there have been articles about even MacDonalds becoming the new social club for the aged. No problem as long as Mangements' establish reasonable policies that are enforced consistently.

In a BKK Boncafe there is no justification for a charge of 2000 bahts, unless clearly marked on the bill of fare. If it caused a disturbance to other customers the meeting holder simply should have been asked to leave.

Edited July 13, 2015 by arunsakda

[NoshowJones]

"On Wednesday, Facebook user Atipoj Srisukhin claimed he had to pay a THB2,000 fee for holding a two-hour business discussion at the cafe."

Too right he should be charged. If you want to hold a business discussion then use your premises or pay for the rent of a room.

See these people holding meetings, teaching students, selling crap in cafes all the time, taking up the seats customers would use and not buying anything except for one coffee and a bottle of water to share.

Add a zero to the bill, sue him if he's claimed he had to pay the bill when he didn't and then ban him for life.

I would say that if the owner of any shop objects to customers holding meetings etc, that is his right, but he should put a list of charges on his window.

So much per hour. for so many people, then nobody could complain. Anyway how did the owner know it was 'business talk', was he eavesdropping?

[tifino]

2000baht is really cheap, when you consider the alternative...

...more than 3 people gather for a chat outside in the street get arrested