Thailand-China submarine deal: US taking a backseat to Chinese as superpower influence

[webfact]

Thailand-China Submarine Deal: US Taking A Backseat To Chinese As Superpower Influence
By Michelle FlorCruz

WASHINGTON: -- A controversial billion-dollar submarine deal between China and Thailand has aggravated relations between the U.S. and Thailand, which could potentially disrupt the greater U.S. naval “pivot” in the region, reports indicate. Thailand’s military junta-led government approved the purchase of three attack submarines earlier this month from China, bridging military ties with Beijing as Washington took a step back.

Historically, Bangkok has been a crucial ally to American forces in the region and has been key to the U.S. military's "Asia pivot," which relies on regional alliances as a tool to maintain peace in the region. However, relations have been strained since a military coup in 2014 ousted Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and put Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha in office.

Now, economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen as relations with the U.S. take a backseat. The U.S. State Department has expressed reluctance to work with Prayuth, linking him to human rights violations and other abuses of power. During the political instability following the coup, the U.S. also scaled back from its annual joint military exercises with Thailand, called Cobra Gold, and postponed discussion of further training exercises, leaving room for Beijing to fortify ties.

Full story: http://www.ibtimes.com/thailand-china-submarine-deal-us-taking-backseat-chinese-superpower-influence-2005729

-- INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS TIMES 2015-07-14

[ezzra]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

[BSJ]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

Stop spreading the truth around, all your doing is confusing the simple folk!

[Usernames]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

What can the US do? Read this other topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/840247-aviation-thai-transport-minister-is-unsure-of-greenlight-from-faa/

No more "favors" or wiggle room.

[chainarong]

Thailand is in delusion territory if they think that dealing with China will some how upset the balance of navel " Pivot " (what ever that is) in the area ,The US hasn't needed Thailand at anytime except for R&R in the Vietnam war and Thailand did very nicely out of that , what Thailand loses sight of is that the US alliance is always transparent and no hidden strings attached, dealing with China is not necessary transparent and may have lots of hidden strings attached , the ball is Thailand's court, you will always be welcome back in the fold and this is the one of many Junta led legacy an Elected government will have to address, however don't think for one moment USA would be concerned if you became more reliant on China , for USA has better friends in the area. Declaration , I am not from the US.

[JakeSully]

I don't think the US cares about Thailand Navy.

What can they do with 3 submarines? Take them and torpedo Rohinya boats?

[jonclark]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

Since the coup Thailand doesn't have many worthwhile political allies who are willing to go on the record and support the government which is understandable as a military coup (whoever valid the junta dress it up as) is still against the political wind of most nations whom Thailand has allied itself historically with. So Thailand it seems has found itself politically isolated on the global stage and in need of friends, and up steps China. Be interesting to see how it all changes (again) after the elections. I am sure the US is already thinking of how it will reassert its leverage in the country, and Beijing will be thinking how it can prevent that also.

Oddly thought I can't help but feel the submarine deal will back fire, it is a colossal waste of tax payer money, and no doubt the navy will ground one in the gulf of Thailand at some point and then the infighting will start.

[bangkokfrog]

In fact the US (and many others concerned with stability in the region) will be happy as Thailand's purchase of these subs means that it will actually have less capability to play a meaningful military role in SEA.

[LomSak27]

which could potentially disrupt the greater U.S. naval “pivot” in the region, reports indicate.

Ahh another mystery for the day. Just what is this "pivot" and what does it do?

For the last three US administrations US naval policy has been develop basis in the western Pacific, on US territories, the one exception being the PI and use of an old base. Three administrations ... shoot we are going on 24 years here. I wonder of that pivot has something to do with that or pivoting around the Kra Isthmus. Or maybe it was just an offer from Cuban to get DeAndre Jordan as his pivot if he tossed in two subs

Likely we will never know

[fred Kubasa]

I think, and hope, if they ignore that fool OBama, the US will , voluntarily continue taking " Backward steps" until,

to the relief of many, they are off the stage altogether !

[h90]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

If Thailand buys submarine from USA or Germany. It would be Germany or USA who great benefit from it.

Both countries that always tries to meddle into Thailands politic and mostly for the worse (supporting Thaksin).

Better having the big powerful neighbor friendly than someone far away.

[jaywalker]

At $2.688 BILLION USD, I doubt Thailand could afford a USA submarine.

[geriatrickid]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

Edited July 14, 2015 by geriatrickid

[rijb]

"three attack submarines"

Who are they going to 'attack' ... Thaksin?

[h90]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

And than Thailand turns off all the spy stations and military cooperation with USA.....It won't massive hurt the USA but it will send a signal.

[deckape]

At $2.688 BILLION USD, I doubt Thailand could afford a USA submarine.

Let alone maintain and operate one.

Just what is this "pivot" and what does it do?

I can't bother reading any of the source articles all the way through but I believe the "pivot" refers to changing the direction of policy and military assets to address China (as opposed to Russia) as the new boogeyman, ahem, world superpower.

Pivot from Russia to China.

Edited July 14, 2015 by deckape

[sanuk711]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China pockets from birth?

So ezzra (once again such deep analysis of the situation) - is that it was all so much differant under other goverments --?

there was no Thai Chinese ??---your partly right, because the person it seems , America would like to deal with (Yingluck) comes from a near full chinese family.....who's name really was Seng Saekhu.....just how does fit with your analysis ........

Following the 1938 anti-Chinese campaigns, his son changed his surname to Shinawatra and the rest of the family followed suit. Yingluck Shinawatra (born 1967), Former Thai Prime Minister, and Thaksin's sister.--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinawatra

Edited July 14, 2015 by sanuk711

[movsrus]

The US shipyards don't build diesel/electric subs anymore- their technology is in nuclear powered boats which they build for the US Navy. Thailand should not invest in a sub in order to learn how nuke boats operate. US shipyards might go after a contract to build a non-nuke boat but it would be of an old design or one they could copy from one of the European vendors.

Of greater interest is the stated desire of EGAT to build nuclear powered electrical generating stations. With no infrastructure to support operations and maintenance of a nuke power plant, the potential for mistakes in the learning process are high. Additionally, the cost of a nuke plant is extremely expensive and requires a significant investment in supporting technology to make it safe and efficient. Thailand would be better off investing in renewable energy sources than to build more coal plants and think about building nukes.

Sorry- not trying to high jack this thread.

[h90]

At $2.688 BILLION USD, I doubt Thailand could afford a USA submarine.

How about a used one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles-class_submarine

[thesetat2013]

The US probably is laughing at thailand more than anything. Thailand already has a beautiful aircraft carrier to show off. Ohh but it has no planed for that heheee. Just imagine what will be missing when they show off their new second-hand subs?

I just hope in 20 years they dont start calling this place Chinaland or LOC (land of chinks)

[mike324]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

[Usernames]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

A lot of what Thailand "exports" to China is repackaged for export around the rest of the world. Any American ban on Thai products or products containing items made in Thailand would sink the Thai economy in a second. If the US can wreck Russia's economy in six months, imagine how fast they can destroy Thailand's. Probably six hours.

[TVGerry]

Thanks Obama!

It's excellent that in his 2 terms in office, he has managed to alienate his closest allies! I mean look at Egypt, he screws over one of the US's longest and closest ally all for 'democracy'! And look at how that country is now! Way to go!

Edited July 14, 2015 by TVGerry

[JakeSully]

"economic and military bilateral relations between Beijing and Bangkok continue to strengthen"

Any blind fool can see that China by far is the great beneficiary of those ' bilateral relations'

so far Thailand is the one that spend the mega bucks with China, and if China holding the

Chinese tourists as a bargaining chips,,, well they can have them back....

but what can you do when all leaders of Thailand are of Chinese origin and pretty much in China

pockets from birth?

If Thailand buys submarine from USA or Germany. It would be Germany or USA who great benefit from it.

Both countries that always tries to meddle into Thailands politic and mostly for the worse (supporting Thaksin).

Better having the big powerful neighbor friendly than someone far away.

China being powerful is a joke. They couldn't even crush Vietnam in a war.

And here's something for you, how is supporting a democratically elected Prime Minister against a coup bad? Thaksin was elected.. the coup was not. Yingluck was elected.. the coup was not. And this section 44 isn't elected either.

We all know what happens when the people's voices are shut up.. you saw it in Cuba, you saw in the Arab Spring and it will happen again.. Revolution.. it always pops up when the people feel they don't have a say in things.

My money is on Greece first though.

[JakeSully]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

What exactly does Thailand export?

[Usernames]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

What exactly does Thailand export?

A lot of computer and electronic parts. BTW, Thailand has an export/import surplus with the US and quite a large deficit with China. Want to guess which one you cut off would do the most damage?

[sgtsabai]

I believe the "pivot" refers to trying to extract the US from the mess created in the mid-east by cheney/bush et al. That's not working out too well. Putin, the mad but smart KGB man has stirred the hornets nest in Europe, not so easy to walk away there now. China is and has been an enemy while the US empire commits suicide in the mid-east. The US is years late and trillions short on the update. If you want an indication of what is going to happen to Thailand after it becomes a vassal state of China talk to the people in Lao. From a purely tactical point of view, submarines in the Gulf of Siam make no sense. They can't run and they can't hide, the Gulf is too shallow. I see a nightmare developing, Thai operating old Chinese technology, shipwreck ahead. Fast anti-sub, LCS types would perhaps be worth the money, not that the LCS is. Dear leader is making a big mistake getting in bed with China.

[Srikcir]

What countries that China has security agreements with beside North Korea in the 1950's that it ever mobilized its military in direct support to threats?

NONE.

China's security agreements are just geopolitical tools to get commerical concessions from nations and neutralize any meddling in its own internal affairs. China maintains a "Give and Take" relationship with it partners: It takes and the partners give.

[twocatsmac]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

What exactly does Thailand export?

Coconuts.

[PatOngo]

Idiotic article. If the writer didn't have a personal agenda, she would have been honest and provided perspective.

The USA is one of the most important export markets for Thailand. China cannot and will not replace the US market.

All the USA has to do is to sneeze and Thailand's economy will be splattered.

China has already replaced US as Thailand's biggest export partner since two years ago. Since the world financial crisis, the US has already reduce its influence on Thailand's export market, so if they "sneeze" now, Thailand's economy will NOT be splattered as its already at a pretty low point and other regions such as Europe, ASEAN combined takes up a bigger piece of the pie than USA now.

What exactly does Thailand export?

Thainess!