Formal nuclear deal has been reached with Iran

[Linky]

Yes it seems most on here are against Obama and the US agreeing to this. I dont know why they think the world revolves around the US.

If the next US president cancels the agreement there is nothing to stop the remaining govts continuing with the agreement. Just means the US businesses will lose trade deals. Up to them.

[empireboy]

You are statistically less likely to die a violent death these days than any other previous point in history by a factor of more than 10... so if you only go back less than 100 years! Irrespective of any negative comments on this topic, the planet is more peaceful than at any other time in any well recorded historic reference of the species!

[sammygood]

ah ... isis & stuff

was the world not a better place with the old dictators ?

look what a mess it became ...

and now they will allow IRAN to become a nuclear power ?

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes it seems most on here are against Obama and the US agreeing to this. I dont know why they think the world revolves around the US.

If the next US president cancels the agreement there is nothing to stop the remaining govts continuing with the agreement. Just means the US businesses will lose trade deals. Up to them.

Indeed it's a P5+1 agreement. Even if the US Congress rejects it, Obama will veto and use Executive privilege to continue the deal. The outrage from the GOP is purely political and playing to their base. They offer no alternative and, come the election campaign, will be found out.

[CapeThai]

1 step closer to Nuclear War cos those crazy muslims WILL fire the rocket when they have one.

Not if they have one....rather when it's ready to fire off....and hit the target accurately

[ABCer]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

If it passes, it's a fait accompli. Doesn't matter what the next president signs, the sanctions will be gone, the frozen assets will be gone. The Iranians will have gotten every thing they wanted and can go their merry way.

Usernames: "If it passes, it's a fait accompli. Doesn't matter what the next president signs, the sanctions will be gone, the frozen assets will be gone. The Iranians will have gotten every thing they wanted and can go their merry way."

Thanks for clearing up the picture. IF, and it is a big if, the above is true, - Obama should be held personally responsible for criminal stupidity and undermining everything USA was and is claiming to stand for!

Some President you Americans have elected! Twice!

[chuckd]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

Thanks chuck...but how does anything the next president of the US do affect an agreement with Iran between the 5+1?

It would only affect the US participation in the agreement and, with Congressional action, probably reinsert some sanctions.

However the sanctions would be without teeth since Obama will have done away with that.

Frankly, IMHO, this is a disaster in the making.

[Jingthing]

People celebrating this deal are saying DON'T believe Iran is serious when their government leads rallies chanting Death to the USA and Death to Israel but DO believe they're serious when they say they aren't developing nuclear weapons. Something doesn't compute.

Iran couldn't at least stop the inflammatory rallies during the negotiating period?

Dudes, they won, big time, and they know it.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Even an historic treaty making the world a safer place is dumped on. The hate for Obama knows no bounds.

Obama legacy grows. When you consider all that he's accomplished despite a Republican congress that's sole purpose was to stop him from doing anything, Obama has triumphed. His ratings grow by the day while the ridiculous Republican clowns continue their hateful, racist dialog.

He will be remembered as one of the nation's greatest President while we watch the demise of the GOP.

Well, one of the central premises of those who do not support this treaty, though not really discussed, is the very real notion that the absurdity will begin to unravel immediately with more dire consequences within a reasonable amount of time- if one could refer to anything regarding the breathless pursuit of a theocracy chasing a nuclear weapon reasonable with regard to time.

So, you adore Obama and yes, people like me despise him as a wolf in sheep's clothing; ok (though to Obama's credit the real fools are Americans as Obama has pretty much said he would do many of the things he has done). So, with regard to the narrow issue of this treaty not treaty executive arrangement/not- executive arrangement we should be able to openly address me as "fool" within... oh, say 18 months, if I am not correct. Give me that, 18 months!

But this deal will fall apart because there is no deal. However, I will not call you and others fools, only the collective sheep in America are the real fools as a bloc. They are fools and their foolishness (thru Obama) empowers Jihad, solidifies a caliphate, intensifies a bipolar arms race in the middle east that will necessarily no long be mid rather high intensity conflict, and increases the likelihood of global economic injury. These are solely among the regional insults to world stability, globally it is a borderline tinderbox everywhere because of recent policies (Bush included).

He may be remembered with great accolades, as you suggest, but it will not be Americans remembering him as such, it will be our enemies.

So, with regard to the narrow issue of this....we should be able to openly address me as "fool" within... oh, say 18 months, if I am not correct. Give me that, 18 months!

Don't need it.

Thx anyway for the occasion to consider it but 18 months is just not necessary

Based on the record..

[konying]

110 billion dollars will be released to Iran.

Expect more Iranians in Pattaya!

Expect more weapons to Hezbollah, Hamas and Assad, also expect few more terror attacks around the world.

[SOTIRIOS]

...such ignorant posts....

...now let's hope that 'one particular country' doesn't set out....'doing what it does'......to derail this monumental milestone in modern history....

[hawker9000]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

As I read it, Congress can vote to block it, but then Obama can veto that (which he's already said he will do). Then Congress would have to be able to muster enough votes for an override, which is probably not in the cards.

Edited July 14, 2015 by hawker9000

[jazzyfrosty]

Best news for years, a triumph for democracy and diplomacy.....

http://gu.com/p/4ak46/sbl

[Jingthing]

Anyway, it's a huge gamble for the Middle East ... and beyond.

Obama will be long out of office before we know for sure how it turned out.

Iran regime remains a VERY BAD player and this deal didn't address that at all. Intentionally so, or it could have never happened.

People who think they know for sure how this will play out for good or bad are deluding themselves.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

As I read it, Congress can vote to block it, but then Obama can veto that (which he's already said he will do). Then Congress would have to be able to muster enough votes for an override, which is probably not in the cards.

That's not really what I was asking.

If they override an Obama veto, which is unlikely but possible, then what?

[hawker9000]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

As I read it, Congress can vote to block it, but then Obama can veto that (which he's already said he will do). Then Congress would have to be able to muster enough votes for an override, which is probably not in the cards.

That's not really what I was asking.

If they override an Obama veto, which is unlikely but possible, then what?

Well, I think it means, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned, sanctions don't get lifted. But then there's the UN Security Council. The U.S. delegate votes however Obama tells them, right? So, the UNSC - with the US delegate toeing the line - would approve the deal, and the UN sanctions would then I presume be lifted. I don't see how unilateral US sanctions & embargos would mean much with no one else going along, even if Congress could manage to keep them in place; the US wouldn't be buying much of their oil anyway.

Obama has taken the position that if the terms of the deal are violated by Iran, the sanctions will "snap back" into place, but that of course is just another Obama lie. The issue would land smack dab back in the Security Council, and China & Russia would of course vote against - and veto if necessary - any attempt to reimpose them.

Bottom line: Iran gets their nuke and gets the sanction burden lifted. 'Talk about having your cake & eating it too... They should make Obama's birthday an Iranian National Holiday.

[konying]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

As I read it, Congress can vote to block it, but then Obama can veto that (which he's already said he will do). Then Congress would have to be able to muster enough votes for an override, which is probably not in the cards.

That's not really what I was asking.

If they override an Obama veto, which is unlikely but possible, then what?

Well, I think it means, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned, sanctions don't get lifted. But then there's the UN Security Council. The U.S. delegate votes however Obama tells them, right? So, the UNSC - with the US delegate toeing the line - would approve the deal, and the UN sanctions would then I presume be lifted. I don't see how unilateral US sanctions & embargos would mean much with no one else going along, even if Congress could manage to keep them in place; the US wouldn't be buying much of their oil anyway.

Obama has taken the position that if the terms of the deal are violated by Iran, the sanctions will "snap back" into place, but that of course is just another Obama lie. The issue would land smack dab back in the Security Council, and China & Russia would of course vote against - and veto if necessary - any attempt to reimpose them.

Bottom line: Iran gets their nuke and gets the sanction burden lifted. 'Talk about having your cake & eating it too... They should make Obama's birthday an Iranian National Holiday.

Well Obama did bring us Arab Springs, no reason not to follow up with nuclear winters

[Pinot]

Obama is in line for another Nobel Peace Prize. Netanyahu and the Republicans are in line for another round of crying towels, the one's they've been using are soaked.

President Obama remains on a roll. Gay marriage, Obamacare, now this diplomatic triumph. He always 3 steps ahead of the Republicans.

The right wing lemmings continue their path off a cliff. I see they're trying to pass legislation for roads, pretending like they can accomplish something (anything). The problem is of course how to pay for it. I know, let's take the money from Medicaid and Social Security!

Republicans can't govern.

[Chicog]

Well Obama did bring us Arab Springs, no reason not to follow up with nuclear winters

Explain how Obama brought us Arab Springs please. I'm all ears. Edited July 15, 2015 by Chicog

[Somtamnication]

These hard core neocons love these kinds of walls. 50 years of nothing for the Cubans DID NOTHING towards peace and stability. 30 years of walls DID NOTHING towards peace and stability with the Iranians.

I am glad the normal people of these two countries can join the real world.

Now, back to the World Criminal Court in The Hague and Bush and his entourage.

[Biikqth]

I would like to believe this agreement is going to produce a win-win, not just with trade (which, no doubt, is a big driver for those countries involved in the agreement), but to ensure Iran never develops nuclear weapons. Unfortunately I really have my doubts that the Iranian leadership will honour the agreement long term and I also have doubts that the UN &/or western governments can or would be prepared to enforce the agreement promptly and effectively. An agreement without some clear, effective enforcement or penalty is worthless.

Individual Iranians are known to be friendly and hospitable but the track record of Iran's leadership is anything but. The country is ruled by religious hardliners who appear intolerant of other religions, other muslim 'sects' and western ways. The military establishment is powerful, dominant, aggressive towards its neighbours, involved in military action in other countries without admitting it and supports terrorist organisations throughout the middle east. The government, whose members have to be approved by the religious leaders, has previously threatened to annihilate Israel and ignored international agreements and protocols. Finally, Iran's continued public demonstrations and denunciations of the USA and Israel in particular and other western countries has carried on long beyond what most people would see as 'reasonable' if Iran really was sincere in wanting to build relationships, trade, respect and trust. It is hard not to see Iran as ruled by extreme hardliners committed to the forceful domination of the middle east and perhaps the muslim world. And, therefore, it is hard to believe that they would not remain committed to having nuclear weapons when they are well down the development track.

Please note that I am not saying that Iran is worse than some other countries or other leaderships. Indeed, it is a stable country with a rational functioning government which is very much needed in this region after the disasters in Iraq, Syria and Libya. Hopefully their rationality will dominate here.

There probably is little doubt, however, that us being hopeful about improved relations, the benefits of trade or even the rationality of Iran's leaders will not provide much reassurance for Israel, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states or any other Sunni or pro-western country in the middle east. Israel will look to further enhance its security in every way it can. The Saudi government may well feel the need to acquire its own nuclear weapons - and it certainly has the funds to do so - if it does not believe the agreement will work, or that inspections are not occurring.

While many people will no doubt be shaking hands and celebrating this agreement, many others, based on Iran's track record, are unlikely to be in a festive mood. Despite my doubts, I certainly do hope that Iran will act rationally (from our perspective).

[F430murci]

OMG, Obama is beyond an idiot and has set a course for World War III. Wow, just wow. Speechless. I though Bush was bad, but one really has to wonder what Obama's true agenda truly is. Wow.

And, and why has Obama not voiced outrage over the pretty blind young girl killed by the illegal immigrant in San Francisco. Oh yea, she is white.

[konying]

Well Obama did bring us Arab Springs, no reason not to follow up with nuclear winters

Explain how Obama brought us Arab Springs please. I'm all ears.

Do your own work

[Chicog]

Well Obama did bring us Arab Springs, no reason not to follow up with nuclear winters

Explain how Obama brought us Arab Springs please. I'm all ears.

Do your own work

Great cop out. In other words, you can't.

[brewsterbudgen]

OMG, Obama is beyond an idiot and has set a course for World War III. Wow, just wow. Speechless. I though Bush was bad, but one really has to wonder what Obama's true agenda truly is. Wow.

And, and why has Obama not voiced outrage over the pretty blind young girl killed by the illegal immigrant in San Francisco. Oh yea, she is white.

If Obama had got involved in the tragic murder in SF, he'd be condemned for using it for political prurposes. Much like Trump, Bill O'Reilly and other neo-conservatives are doing.

[Publicus]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017

(emphasis added)

HRC is presently 1/7 odds to get the Democratic party nomination for prez so the his presumption seems incongruent with the objective possibilities.

Anything can of course happen or not happen, but if at this point in time we are going to be looking forward to possible possibilities, they might at least be respective.

Just sayin.

[Publicus]

People celebrating this deal are saying DON'T believe Iran is serious when their government leads rallies chanting Death to the USA and Death to Israel but DO believe they're serious when they say they aren't developing nuclear weapons. Something doesn't compute.

Iran couldn't at least stop the inflammatory rallies during the negotiating period?

Dudes, they won, big time, and they know it.

Iran has in fact been trying to develop nuclear weapons and everything I read at the thread recognizes that. Half of what I read at the thread says this deal by the P5+1 is designed to assure that if Iran does go forward with it in any way, Iran will get caught at it sooner or later, the sooner the better. People are realistic about this so trying to accuse them of wrong headedness is to sell us short which is a shortcoming of the accusers that we don't buy.

Iranians who get their information from the state and the Mullahs that control practically all the information throughout Iran are celebrating that which they have been told by the mullahs is their reality. Here we know it to be mullah propaganda to include a lot of boldfaced lies.

So it could sound that if Iran declared Putin's birthday to be a national holiday in the Islamic Republic some people here might think they too have the day off. When the North Koreans rally for their Dear Leader no one here that I know gets envious, jealous, taken in or swept away by it.

Just don't see why celebrations by sheeple in Iran can mean anything to anyone here except that the people are celebrating the fact sanctions are being lifted and that itself is just a normal part of the deal. It is the motivation of the deal the ayatollahs made.

Nobody wants a nuclear weaponised Iran, nobody. The deal takes significant and substantial actons to prevent and to retard it.

[Jingthing]

But it won't stop it and the Iran regime remains a very bad player, and now with this deal will become a massively funded bad player. Israel is right to feel angry, threatened, and abandoned in this deal. Nukes aren't everything. Iran's proxies are already gloating about how better they will be equipped now.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[konying]

Well Obama did bring us Arab Springs, no reason not to follow up with nuclear winters

Explain how Obama brought us Arab Springs please. I'm all ears.

Do your own work

Great cop out. In other words, you can't.

In other words i do not need to, Google is there for you https://www.google.co.th/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1AVSC_enTH438TH438&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=arab%20spring%20and%20obama

Edited July 15, 2015 by konying

[Publicus]

But it won't stop it and the Iran regime remains a very bad player, and now with this deal will become a massively funded bad player. Israel is right to feel angry, threatened, and abandoned in this deal. Nukes aren't everything. Iran's proxies are already gloating about how better they will be equipped now.

Israel bless 'em can feel any way they want to feel about the deal, they just need to keep in mind over there they have a prime minister who is also a Republican US Senator. Which gives 'em a two-in-one double whammy right wing lunatic.

Israel needs to make adjustments to a changing world while simultanously keeping its guard up. The "gloating proxies" are in fact reheasing for their inevitable meeting with their maker. People on all sides over there in uniform or out keep meeting their maker without much regard for the fact it's been going on for thousands of years.

Meanwhile let's get on with the nuclear agreement and all of its provisions cause that's all we got and it's a more than reasonable deal. With a little luck over there, there will be peace before the sun goes black. Given the fact the ME is where the three great God religions originated and still dominate, I just don't see peace there in anybody's time.

It was George Carlin who got a tremendous applause when he said that no kingdom has known more wars than the Kingdom of God...by any name.

Edited for typo

Edited July 15, 2015 by Publicus