PEA electricity BIG bill information

[mrblue]

hello, I have a question, a HARD one, regarding electricity.

in my old country I have been used to a way of calculating electricity expenses quite different from here and I am a bit confused about the way it is dealt here!

after building our house (it's a big house, and we are in 9 living) the contractor made the PEA request for a 100AMP transformer, based on the appliances/lights that are installed in the house (how can I use ALL the appliances at once ?!?!).

we are living in a small village and PEA had to bring a new line and a new transformer all at our expense!

since I have always been used to think in Kw, it already made me a bit confused. where I lived, you can ask a 3, 6, 12 and so on Kw meter, and as soon as you use more electricity, it cut out, and you have to manually rearm it.

I also know that in american homes, 100AMP and 200AMP meters are not so hard to find, but here in thailand it seemed quite a lot even for me!

we used at first to have a 13.000/14.000 baht bill every month, which was quite a lot already, but now after a couple of months it raised at 19.000/20.000 baht, wich is far-too-much, considering that I am quite sure we are not using THAT MUCH electricity (no, it's not because of air conditioners turned on, last year we had a 15.000/16.000 baht bill in the same period)

we have already asked the "experts" at PEA and they said it's normal! and that if we want to change to a lower rate supply, we have to change the transformer, and all the house wiring and the control panel (???).

now the question: is this true? I mean, I think that everywhere else in the world, if you get XXXX electricity, and you realize it is too much for you, you just ask to have it changed to XX !!! it should be a normal procedure, like asking for more electricity.

but for some reasons (to me unknown) here it is not possible, and since when you ask a thai some information, it seems that either everyone knows everything, or the answer is "if he said so, it's true, and you don't know anything of thai electricity"...

can someone help me to understand if I am doomed to pay 18.000+ baht for the rest of my life or if there is a normal way to get to a normal standard?

for comparison the neighbour pays around 3.000 in cold season and 5.000 in hot season. I understand I cannot be that lucky, but at least 6.000 and 12.000 would be something!

thank you in advance

mrBlue

[Naam]

we used at first to have a 13.000/14.000 baht bill every month, which was quite a lot already, but now after a couple of months it raised at 19.000/20.000 baht, wich is far-too-much, considering that I am quite sure we are not using THAT MUCH electricity (no, it's not because of air conditioners turned on, last year we had a 15.000/16.000 baht bill in the same period)

dear mrBlue,

last year's cannot be used as comparison because we had a lot more rain and cloudy days and therefore lower ambient temperatures with less cooling demand on our aircons. i am quite sure the higher bill is caused by your aircons.

a "couple of months" ago my bill was 15,871 Baht and another "couple of months" the bill was 10,307 Baht, but the bill i received today is 20,196 Baht. does that ring a bell?

welcome to the real world!

[mrblue]

thank you for your answer, which sort of help me, but it is still unclear to me if it is true that I cannot change the contract to let's say 50AMP or 25AMP without changing ALL the wiring/control panel system.

at PEA they are sure that if I had used 25 or 50AMP at first, I would not have this kind of bill

[inzman]

My bill is around 500 baht a month, when we use the air it goes up to 800 a month. 2 bedroom house with 3 occupants. Your bill is more than the school I work in. I suspect the whole village is hooked up to your meter, you really should check it out.

[KhunBENQ]

14000, 15000, 19000, 20000 !!!!???? Per month???

Hell, how many persons, how many rooms, ACs, other high power devices you operate?

400 m² pool villa?

I would need reanimation if such a bill arrives here (3 adults, one child, 2 ACs sensefully used, 250 W waterpump and the usual lot of TVs, PCs etc.).

3000 Baht is enough to make me alert.

19000 Baht/month is about 4000 kWh (units).

In Germany that would cost me about 1000 Euros/month (~25 cent per unit).

Edited July 16, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[mrblue]

well. at least someone agree with me! LOL

no, LOL the village is not hooked here, after the transformer and the meter there is nothing else, just us!

the house is very big, 1200sq/m (800 inside + 400 terrace/inside garden) , 6 bedrooms, 12 ac, BUT keep in mind that no more than 3 ac are turned on at the same time, and mainly at night when we have a price reduction.

have electric stove appliances, but used for cooking in "normal" way and not turned on for hours!)

at night there are just 3x8watts bulbs turned on and no garden lights.

[KhunBENQ]

OK, that "puts it in perspective"

when we have a price reduction.

Thats an interesting sidenote!

So you don't have a "normal" household tariff, but some special setup.

Normal meters and household tariff (1.2) don't know about nightime reductions.

I am out here, because I have no experience with such a setup.

Edited July 16, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[Naam]

My bill is around 500 baht a month, when we use the air it goes up to 800 a month. 2 bedroom house with 3 occupants. Your bill is more than the school I work in. I suspect the whole village is hooked up to your meter, you really should check it out.

"300 Baht more when we use the air" is insulting the intelligence of anybody who reads your posting!

[Naam]

14000, 15000, 19000, 20000 !!!!???? Per month???

Hell, how many persons, how many rooms, ACs, other high power devices you operate?

400 m² pool villa?

I would need reanimation if such a bill arrives here (3 adults, one child, 2 ACs sensefully used, 250 W waterpump and the usual lot of TVs, PCs etc.).

3000 Baht is enough to make me alert.

19000 Baht/month is about 4000 kWh (units).

In Germany that would cost me about 1000 Euros/month (~25 cent per unit).

how does 4,301 kWh sound KhunBENQ?

take a wild guess how much i would pay for heating oil or gas plus electricity if my house was located in our home country Tchermanny

[Crossy]

Mrblue, please post your bill here with the personal details blanked out so we can see what tariff you're on, you may have an industrial tariff or something else odd.

[mrblue]

at first, PEA made a mistake and gave us an industrial tariff. but after the first 2 bills, we suspected there was something strange and then went to check.

they say sorry for the mistake, because they though we were running a business and then they gave us the wrong tariff (together with the builder who didn't take care enough...).

after that "complain" everything got "fixed" but still out of normal standards.

let me look for the bill and then I'll post it.

[Crossy]

Back to the OP.

Your transformer, meter or tariff does NOT determine how much electricity you use, your load does.

It would make no difference if you went to a 15 or 45A meter (with the corresponding change in the incoming breaker) other than the possibility of being plunged into darkness when your consumption went over the breaker rating.

Do you have a single or 3-phase supply?

Please post a photo of your meter too.

EDIT How many aircons are you running, sizes, set temperatures, run hours??

A/C is the real power sucker here, particularly at this time of year.

[balo]

I would say somehing like 7000 to 10000 baht per month would be more normal for a house this big with 3 AC running.

.

[Naam]

I would say somehing like 7000 to 10000 baht per month would be more normal for a house this big with 3 AC running.

.

"x numbers of AC running" is as informative as "that piece of string was rather short" but your estimate is close Balo

interesting factors are:

-capacity of ACs running,

-hours of running,

-temperature setting,

-area to cool.

example: if 3 ACs each 24k btu/h are running 14 hours daily at an assumed setting of 24ºC at ambient temperatures as we are experiencing now they gobble up 2,520 kWh = (using my rate of 4.7 Baht/kWh) 11,844 Baht/month.

oops! i just saw that Crossy beat me to it

Edited July 16, 2015 by Naam

[mrblue]

3-phase supply. regarding AC, the maximum that we use is 2x35k btu at night from 12.00 to 4.00/6.00am (reduction rate time) + 1x12k btu same time at night and max 4/6 hours during the day. ALL set at no less than 27C (not like the -18C movie theaters/department store style)

water heater are set to minimum and used usually once in the morning and once after 10.00pm for shower (consider 10 showers a day in total).

this is the transformer

and this is the meter! yes, it's inside that box, and it's not accessible by the user. once a month someone from PEA comes here, break the seal at the right bottom, open, check, write down, reset. close and install a new seal.

after a week we get the bill.

still cannot find the bill, only the pre-bill. the paper with all the info that the PEA-man brings to the company, and they use it for calculating the bill.

[Crossy]

I'm not aware of any TOU (Time Of Use) domestic tariffs from PEA, maybe someone else can enlighten me, I suspect you're still on some sort of industrial tariff. The locked box is to prevent tampering with the TOU settings.

Our PEA bill is printed by the meter reader from his machine and left in the post box real time, Wifey has usually paid it before he gets back to the office.

Have another word with PEA and ask for a domestic supply. You may have to change your main breaker to a lower rated unit but re-wiring the house is not going to be needed.

[Seastallion]

That transformer, and 3-phase supply, is WAY over-kill. Even at theoretical peak usage (which, you are correct in thinking, is never achieved) you would not need such a big one.

An electrician friend of mine makes a good living calculating how small a transformer can be ...he saves his customers 10's of 1000's, sometimes more, on what the contractor stipulates. Apparently, "peak usage" is always used for transformer calculations, and is never actually required.

You would never have to re-wire your house if the transformer is changed...what an odd thing to suggest by them.....a little bit of fiddling in the fuse box if different sections of the house are on different phases and you switch to single phase, but that's all.

That transformer itself eats a bit of power. It gets hot, it buzzes, copper loss...that's all power wastage. If the transformer is faulty, there could be an increase in power consumption, too.

In the meter box, there should be a little window for you to see the reading...if it's a digital meter, the display will scroll through various readings. Do a calculation yourself on the consumption over a day, a week, 2 weeks, and extrapolate to a month and compare to what they claim is your consumption.

[Naam]

Seastallion

That transformer, and 3-phase supply, is WAY over-kill. Even at theoretical peak usage (which, you are correct in thinking, is never achieved) you would not need such a big one.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ on over-kill. the electricity company provided a transformer based on the information provided by the consumer or builder what is/will be installed. there is no such thing like "the consumer told us he never has a hot shower with his wife and that out of 12 (twelve) installed aircons only 3 will be running at any time."

and if an electrician tells me that even for a theoretical partial load of 66% a single phase connection is sufficient i'd laugh out loudly. just take the aircons' 2/3 peak demand (the OP mentions even some 35k btu/h AC units which might be three-phase units) of running amps exceeds the usual 15/45a single phase connection not to mention the sudden multiple amps drawn after a power cut when compressors are starting synchronously.

anybody who has the money to build 800m² of living area will also be wise to have a three-phase connection in a tropical country where the electricity supply is not dependable and quite often one or two phases have a brown-out or are out completely.

i have 19 installed units, evenly distributed over three phases. that's why i have still a minimum of 6 units operational even when two phases are gone. but then... to each his own.

[Naam]

3-phase supply. regarding AC, the maximum that we use is 2x35k btu at night from 12.00 to 4.00/6.00am (reduction rate time) + 1x12k btu same time at night and max 4/6 hours during the day. ALL set at no less than 27C (not like the -18C movie theaters/department store style)

water heater are set to minimum and used usually once in the morning and once after 10.00pm for shower (consider 10 showers a day in total).

now we are getting closer mrBlue. assuming the worst case scenario (based on your information) keeping cool and clean in your home i calculated a monthly demand ~1,900kWh which would cost based on the price i pay ~8,500 Baht/month.

now tell us more. am i right to assume you have a pool, how many fridges/freezers, washer and dryer, deep well, irrigation pump, presurised house water supply, outside lighting from dusk to dawn, big screens TVs, etc. etc.???

[mrblue]

the meter box has a window, but it has a not a see-through plastic which prevents to see it!

no pool, three fridges + one of those full window fridge for drinks. one washer, irrigation by one well pump with a 4000lt reserve tank and one pump. house water is pressurized by gravity (12.000lt 12mt high tank).

night light, only 3 x 8w bulbs (don't have outside lighting yet)

big screen (if you mean like 60" flat panels), 4 tvs, but, in total, you can consider use of 1 tv for no more than 20 hours a month.

[Naam]

whatever info you provided does indeed not justify an 18,000 Baht electricity bill. what's still missing is a single bill stating consumption in kWh to clear up the enigma. you couldn't have thrown all your electricity bills away.

[kannot]

we used at first to have a 13.000/14.000 baht bill every month, which was quite a lot already, but now after a couple of months it raised at 19.000/20.000 baht, wich is far-too-much, considering that I am quite sure we are not using THAT MUCH electricity (no, it's not because of air conditioners turned on, last year we had a 15.000/16.000 baht bill in the same period)

dear mrBlue,

last year's cannot be used as comparison because we had a lot more rain and cloudy days and therefore lower ambient temperatures with less cooling demand on our aircons. i am quite sure the higher bill is caused by your aircons.

a "couple of months" ago my bill was 15,871 Baht and another "couple of months" the bill was 10,307 Baht, but the bill i received today is 20,196 Baht. does that ring a bell?

welcome to the real world!

You sure you dont have an execution chamber in there Naam?

[DLang]

3 aircons on from 7pm-7am.

2 fridges.

Never more than 5k baht.

[JDGRUEN]

Not being able to see the meter at any and all times is ridiculous ... with all the good advice you are getting ... You must change to a situation where you can see the meters AND take a look at where other wires are running ... as said you could be supplying much of the village.

Changing the transformer and making sure you are on a Domestic rate seem to be mandatory ... Then AFTER you get this down to a normal household level -- even though it is a large house(s)... After all is done -- turn off -- up plug absolutely everything in the house with breakers and - double check ... then see if your new meter that you can actually see - still moves. You may be the butt of a big local joke where you the rich Farang is paying for everything ... Your builder seems to have some explaining to do to .. setting you up with a over done system. By chance does your builder live nearby -- near enough to be on the same wires... Look for ANY electrical cable exiting your home or compound in the air our buried .. .

[balo]

This is not made for a normal household, you need to complain asap. Maybe they thought you were opening up a business when they looked at your big house?

Edited July 17, 2015 by balo

[Naam]

we used at first to have a 13.000/14.000 baht bill every month, which was quite a lot already, but now after a couple of months it raised at 19.000/20.000 baht, wich is far-too-much, considering that I am quite sure we are not using THAT MUCH electricity (no, it's not because of air conditioners turned on, last year we had a 15.000/16.000 baht bill in the same period)

dear mrBlue,

last year's cannot be used as comparison because we had a lot more rain and cloudy days and therefore lower ambient temperatures with less cooling demand on our aircons. i am quite sure the higher bill is caused by your aircons.

a "couple of months" ago my bill was 15,871 Baht and another "couple of months" the bill was 10,307 Baht, but the bill i received today is 20,196 Baht. does that ring a bell?

welcome to the real world!

You sure you dont have an execution chamber in there Naam?

we are trying hard to keep a low carbon footprint. all our executions are carried out highly energy efficient by decapitation and candlelight. in rare cases my vicious dogs will do the job, but it's quite messy.

[opalred]

my bill sky rocketed for a some months went with wife to pea to tell them something is wrong and come check meters

on the post were 4 other meters

guess? the other meters were wired to mine on the back

the frang can pay

[mrblue]

after the weekend I'm back again. this is the pea bill we receive every month. the upper part is the coming bill, and the lower part is the last bill for comparison.

thank you again to all who can help with this issue!

[mrblue]

something wrong with previous link to photo.

after the weekend I'm back again. this is the pea bill we receive every month. the upper part is the coming bill, and the lower part is the last bill for comparison.

thank you again to all who can help with this issue!

Edited July 20, 2015 by mrblue

[lj cm]

Thank you mrblue and Naam.

I will never ever complain again about our 3000-4000 Baht electric bill.