Decisions, decisions.. Golf GTi or Golf R

[WarpSpeed]

Yes Tywais, sadly, I can relate.

[fish fingers]

Still have a soft spot for a 90's S8 like the one in Ronin

[questionsreplies]

I agree that buying a vw in thailand when you can get a bm for the price is a funny stupid idea for me...

Maybe the same kind of people who buy a first floor condo ? (with a noisy road in front of course)

Buying a vw even the locals who are not the brightest people dont do it but a farang found a way to look special it seems ♥♥♥

[IMHO]

@OP. I know the headspace you're at. Been there, done that.

Give up all the thought experiments and seeking advice from people who buy Toyotas - and just spend the extra 400K for 4WD and the extra HP - it's just not worth the buyer's remorse

[WarpSpeed]

Geez IMHO you're on a roll! It's refreshing to see such frank honesty. For anyone who cares to know? In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes, in their minds VW both built and after WWII, rebuilt Germany.

[Mr23]

This thread is hilarious!

OP, I too have been contemplating a VW Golf R but the MK6. The GTI was an option but I prefer the aesthetics of the R. The extra KWs and AWD also swayed me. I thought the fuel consumption would be an issue but as you know, the R is not a full-time AWD system so it's quite good on fuel. Much, much better than the A45 AMG.

Good luck with what ever car you end up with!

[frankphuket]

Thow in a few comments: I have owned a VW GOLF GTI MK6 now for 3 1/2 years (bought good price grey). Must say that my image of the German reliability is slighlty shattered as I did have a number of unwanted garage visits, the biggest one was after 1 year only being a leaking DSG.....but also smaller electrical faults/sensors etc. Nothing big, but just a little annoying. The car drives real nice and is a very mature car i would say, plenty of power and good handling.

However servicing is an issue and so are parts which should not be understestimated and for that reason maybe looking at a more established brand in Thailand makes sense as well. When I bought the Golf there were not 'fast' options for around 2m, now there are a few....The mentioned A250 AMG, or you could go for a C Class 300 Bluetec...no slouch for sure. Otherwise the Volvo V40 isn't bad in my opinion and great value. For 3m you can get a BMW 328i.... Just wish VW would take Thailand more serious....but not selling any cars anymore, just people cariers is kind of back paddling from 3-5 years ago when at least they had a couple of options: Scirocco, Golf, Passat, Tiguan (very shortly)....

[frankphuket]

Geez IMHO you're on a roll! It's refreshing to see such frank honesty. For anyone who cares to know? In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes, in their minds VW both built and after WWII, rebuilt Germany.

Sorry, but this isn't true, I am German and I would say Benz, BMW, Audi and than VW...although VW is catching up more and more and closing the gap.

[Mr23]

Thow in a few comments: I have owned a VW GOLF GTI MK6 now for 3 1/2 years (bought good price grey). Must say that my image of the German reliability is slighlty shattered as I did have a number of unwanted garage visits, the biggest one was after 1 year only being a leaking DSG.....but also smaller electrical faults/sensors etc. Nothing big, but just a little annoying. The car drives real nice and is a very mature car i would say, plenty of power and good handling.

However servicing is an issue and so are parts which should not be understestimated and for that reason maybe looking at a more established brand in Thailand makes sense as well. When I bought the Golf there were not 'fast' options for around 2m, now there are a few....The mentioned A250 AMG, or you could go for a C Class 300 Bluetec...no slouch for sure. Otherwise the Volvo V40 isn't bad in my opinion and great value. For 3m you can get a BMW 328i.... Just wish VW would take Thailand more serious....but not selling any cars anymore, just people cariers is kind of back paddling from 3-5 years ago when at least they had a couple of options: Scirocco, Golf, Passat, Tiguan (very shortly)....

Hi Frank.

Do you mind if I ask you what you were paying on servicing your GTI? Please PM if don't don't which to disclose publicly. Something I need to consider before finalising my decision.

I too have heard instances of the DSG leaking as well.. I think they addressed the issue with the MK7's.

Cheers

[frankphuket]

Thow in a few comments: I have owned a VW GOLF GTI MK6 now for 3 1/2 years (bought good price grey). Must say that my image of the German reliability is slighlty shattered as I did have a number of unwanted garage visits, the biggest one was after 1 year only being a leaking DSG.....but also smaller electrical faults/sensors etc. Nothing big, but just a little annoying. The car drives real nice and is a very mature car i would say, plenty of power and good handling.

However servicing is an issue and so are parts which should not be understestimated and for that reason maybe looking at a more established brand in Thailand makes sense as well. When I bought the Golf there were not 'fast' options for around 2m, now there are a few....The mentioned A250 AMG, or you could go for a C Class 300 Bluetec...no slouch for sure. Otherwise the Volvo V40 isn't bad in my opinion and great value. For 3m you can get a BMW 328i.... Just wish VW would take Thailand more serious....but not selling any cars anymore, just people cariers is kind of back paddling from 3-5 years ago when at least they had a couple of options: Scirocco, Golf, Passat, Tiguan (very shortly)....

Hi Frank.

Do you mind if I ask you what you were paying on servicing your GTI? Please PM if don't don't which to disclose publicly. Something I need to consider before finalising my decision.

I too have heard instances of the DSG leaking as well.. I think they addressed the issue with the MK7's.

Cheers

Servicing....hard to say, a just simple yearly service (oil, filters, etc) is around 4,500-5,000 if i remember correctly. I am in Phuket, so rather difficult to find a decent garage....lucky I have. I order spare parts from the USA (yes....unbelievable but true, much cheaper and 'faster'). Website: europaparts.com. Arrives in 4 days after ordering....bought sensors there, brake pads, filters, etc. Even my garage now orders some from them....a real good find and the quickest was 3 days delivery....damn'it they can't manage that from BKK.

I don't think regular servicing is all that different from other high powered car. My Mini is not much less as well. The DSG leak was hefty and I paid something like 60,000 all together because at that time I didn't have that garage yet and a well known grey market dealer here in Phuket took care (well, at least in charging me real 'nicely'....).

[Mr23]

Thanks for the info, Frank!

[mike324]

Golf R all the way, you will not regret spending 400,000 more. The Golf R are pretty rare sight as well.

[Pdaz]

Seems to be a glut of them in BKK on the net.. Lots of places brought them in but I'm not sure if the VW badge has the kudos required for Thais to part with the best part of 4 mil.. Funny in any other market a car sitting in the showroom for two years would probably have a big discount off the RRP.. Not here.. 2013/2014/2015 - same sticker price though sure there must be some wriggle room...

[thailandforumaddict]

And what about citroen and peugeot, maybe they have as good cars as VW ? Just asking, when I see that people can spend so much on a ugly VW maybe they could enjoy a citroen ? <3

[frankphuket]

And what about citroen and peugeot, maybe they have as good cars as VW ? Just asking, when I see that people can spend so much on a ugly VW maybe they could enjoy a citroen ? <3

Funny you mentioned...but just recently I acquired a 2nd Citroen DS3 with the 156 hp turbo engine which can be found in all pre 2.0l Mini Cooper S in a slightly higher tuning stage.

I really like the DS3 as it is a manual gear...but 1) it is not available anymore for sale in Thailand with that engine 2) it for sure is not in the same league than my GTI power wise. 3) theGTI is more mature....still the DS3 is plenty of fun to drive... Peugeot hasn't really anything out there with close to 200 hp, as it seems they don't sell the RCZ 200 thp here.

So in short I enjoy my GTi, don't think it is ugly...it is very understated but interior is a real nice place to be in, and I do enjoy the Citroen as well...horses for courses

[frankphuket]

And what about citroen and peugeot, maybe they have as good cars as VW ? Just asking, when I see that people can spend so much on a ugly VW maybe they could enjoy a citroen ? <3

Funny you mentioned...but just recently I acquired a 2nd Citroen DS3 with the 156 hp turbo engine which can be found in all pre 2.0l Mini Cooper S in a slightly higher tuning stage.

I really like the DS3 as it is a manual gear...but 1) it is not available anymore for sale in Thailand with that engine 2) it for sure is not in the same league than my GTI power wise. 3) theGTI is more mature....still the DS3 is plenty of fun to drive... Peugeot hasn't really anything out there with close to 200 hp, as it seems they don't sell the RCZ 200 thp here.

So in short I enjoy my GTi, don't think it is ugly...it is very understated but interior is a real nice place to be in, and I do enjoy the Citroen as well...horses for courses

Was to say 2nd HAND...

[WarpSpeed]

Geez IMHO you're on a roll! It's refreshing to see such frank honesty. For anyone who cares to know? In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes, in their minds VW both built and after WWII, rebuilt Germany.

Sorry, but this isn't true, I am German and I would say Benz, BMW, Audi and than VW...although VW is catching up more and more and closing the gap.

I guess I should believe you over the multitude of Germans I spoke with both before and during my trip there then? Especially given that VW dwarfs the other manufacturers mentioned and it is supposedly ranked according to company sales, last I checked Audi was part of the VW group.

[frankphuket]

Geez IMHO you're on a roll! It's refreshing to see such frank honesty. For anyone who cares to know? In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes, in their minds VW both built and after WWII, rebuilt Germany.

Sorry, but this isn't true, I am German and I would say Benz, BMW, Audi and than VW...although VW is catching up more and more and closing the gap.

I guess I should believe you over the multitude of Germans I spoke with both before and during my trip there then? Especially given that VW dwarfs the other manufacturers mentioned and it is supposedly ranked according to company sales, last I checked Audi was part of the VW group.

Not quite sure I understand you right, but when you say "right on way" I was interpreting that in my poor German English as the cars which drive fast on the left lane and others giving way....?

If this is so, my answer stands and trust me I have done km on the good German highways.

Actually Porsche would come first, than Benz, BMW/Audi and VW.... Even Audi is part of VW (so is Porsche) but as a car brand should be seen separately.

In terms of quantity...of course there are more VW cars on the road, but until only recently they were more mid segment and did not have really that powerful cars out there, the more powerful engines are found in Audis and Porsches of course.

Anyhow...who cares, right?

[tua2kee]

To thread starter, R has a bigger turbo and mkre tuning potential besides all those differences you've listed.

[WarpSpeed]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

[pistachios]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

Nice "rattrapage aux branches" as we say back home.

Everybody understood that you wrote a Bmw or Mercedes driver would give way to a Volkswagen out of respect of the brand history, which seemed completely ridiculous. Now that a german pointed out your mistake, "of course" you were talking about Porsches and Audis... on a Golf topic, following a few posts that said VWs were not hiso enough for thais.

By the way VW bought Audi and Porsche well after WWII, both brands had not much to do with Germany's reconstruction which renders the original reason invalid for them.

[thailandforumaddict]

I really understand Thai on this point, VW are sold at ridiculous prices in Thailand and that it's so stupid to buy this.

At least with Benz and BMW you get a sort of luxury for the price, but what do you get with VW ? Cars that are not even taxi in Europe ? yes ! (because cheap charlies in Thailand often remind me that Benz and BMW are just taxi in Europe, but VW are not even taxi because they really are the lowest type of German cars).

Even Mini I can understand that people pay more than 2 millions for that box, but for a VW, I still cannot get it.

[frankphuket]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

Nice "rattrapage aux branches" as we say back home.

Everybody understood that you wrote a Bmw or Mercedes driver would give way to a Volkswagen out of respect of the brand history, which seemed completely ridiculous. Now that a german pointed out your mistake, "of course" you were talking about Porsches and Audis... on a Golf topic, following a few posts that said VWs were not hiso enough for thais.

By the way VW bought Audi and Porsche well after WWII, both brands had not much to do with Germany's reconstruction which renders the original reason invalid for them.

As much as VW group is a group of brands if you ask anybody what you drive and you say a VW nobody would ever ask you which brand, a Bentley, Porsche or so! So if you write about a single brand in comparison and mention VW nobody would consider the entire group of brands but just the VW ( Passats, Golfs, Touaregs, Tiguans, etc) and all those have less "street creed" than Benz or BMW.

I stand by those facts and if someone thinks different well...be my guest.

It is also not Thaaat long ago that they merged anyhow.

In Germany Benz, BMW and Audi are the 3 brands on same tier with slight nuances in "creed" or direction.

I drive a VW, a Golf GTI and do not feel I drive that it is the same brand as Porsche and I am sure that goes for any Fiat or Alfa driver not feeling sitting in a lower budget Ferrari but in a different brand.

Anyway it's all good...we know what we know and if someone can't accept the truth no worries...bigger fish to fry.

[frankphuket]

I really understand Thai on this point, VW are sold at ridiculous prices in Thailand and that it's so stupid to buy this.

At least with Benz and BMW you get a sort of luxury for the price, but what do you get with VW ? Cars that are not even taxi in Europe ? yes ! (because cheap charlies in Thailand often remind me that Benz and BMW are just taxi in Europe, but VW are not even taxi because they really are the lowest type of German cars).

Even Mini I can understand that people pay more than 2 millions for that box, but for a VW, I still cannot get it.

Agree partly on the ridiculous price issue....not so much on what you get for your money. 3 years ago I was looking for a nice car and in equation I had: bMW 320d, Benz C250, Volvo S60, but went with a VW GOLF GTI...why, interior on very similar level quality wise...but we're the GTI beats the others and what is important for me is fun factor, being engine and handling (albeit the Bimmer is nice as well). I like that few people have them and it looks more like a sleeper car, not show offish.

I also have a Mini and although it is lots of fun it is not on the same quality perception wise...even the newer Minis still have rather plasticky interiors. Their focus is not on luxury but on funky fun.

Horses for courses....

[WarpSpeed]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

Nice "rattrapage aux branches" as we say back home.

Everybody understood that you wrote a Bmw or Mercedes driver would give way to a Volkswagen out of respect of the brand history, which seemed completely ridiculous. Now that a german pointed out your mistake, "of course" you were talking about Porsches and Audis... on a Golf topic, following a few posts that said VWs were not hiso enough for thais.

By the way VW bought Audi and Porsche well after WWII, both brands had not much to do with Germany's reconstruction which renders the original reason invalid for them.

Don't speak for EVERYBODY including me, don't presume to put words or other meanings in my posts either, I said VW as in VW group, Porsche, Audi, whatever, not my fault the both of you are NOT English speakers as your first language based on the quality of your post, but admit YOUR misunderstanding of the language and move on and don't try to twist my post from it's intended meaning as it was intended all the time.

FYI it matters NOT which brand it is if it is overtaking you on the autobahn, YOU MOVE OVER or you get a hefty fine!! Now argue that point? There are and have been plenty of VW products in German trim that are every bit as top end as most other German brands, we were passed by a Ford Focus station wagon like we were anchored at over 140MPH not KPH either.

[frankphuket]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

Nice "rattrapage aux branches" as we say back home.

Everybody understood that you wrote a Bmw or Mercedes driver would give way to a Volkswagen out of respect of the brand history, which seemed completely ridiculous. Now that a german pointed out your mistake, "of course" you were talking about Porsches and Audis... on a Golf topic, following a few posts that said VWs were not hiso enough for thais.

By the way VW bought Audi and Porsche well after WWII, both brands had not much to do with Germany's reconstruction which renders the original reason invalid for them.

Don't speak for EVERYBODY including me, don't presume to put words or other meanings in my posts either, I said VW as in VW group, Porsche, Audi, whatever, not my fault the both of you are NOT English speakers as your first language based on the quality of your post, but admit YOUR misunderstanding of the language and move on and don't try to twist my post from it's intended meaning as it was intended all the time.

FYI it matters NOT which brand it is if it is overtaking you on the autobahn, YOU MOVE OVER or you get a hefty fine!! Now argue that point? There are and have been plenty of VW products in German trim that are every bit as top end as most other German brands, we were passed by a Ford Focus station wagon like we were anchored at over 140MPH not KPH either.

May I than humbly request as a non-perfect English speaker that you express yourself in international way and if you mean VW and their products you actually mean VW group (as this is by no means clear which I have stated previously in my handicapped English)? Same as if you would say FIAT but actually meant some of their many different brands. You said VW...You DID NOT say VW group, why is it so hard to accept this? It's not about language it is about being precise in expressing it.

Anyway, won't comment on this anymore....Whatever.

[pistachios]

^^Right Frank but when I said VW I didn't single out VW, VW is a group with VW as the head/owner of that group and that's why I stated it as VW instead of breaking down the entire VW group in order, Audi, Porsche, Bently, etc. because that surely would have been a can of worms.

I just don't appreciate being corrected so certainly when my stated facts are in actuality correct, "sorry this isn't true" turns out it is, that's what made it an issue. It wasn't that trivial of a correction from my point of view and here being factual gains respect and credibility, someone making you look foolish does not, so I had to respond accordingly. Now the point is moot at this point since it seems you've made a partial retraction.

Nice "rattrapage aux branches" as we say back home.

Everybody understood that you wrote a Bmw or Mercedes driver would give way to a Volkswagen out of respect of the brand history, which seemed completely ridiculous. Now that a german pointed out your mistake, "of course" you were talking about Porsches and Audis... on a Golf topic, following a few posts that said VWs were not hiso enough for thais.

By the way VW bought Audi and Porsche well after WWII, both brands had not much to do with Germany's reconstruction which renders the original reason invalid for them.

Don't speak for EVERYBODY including me, don't presume to put words or other meanings in my posts either, I said VW as in VW group, Porsche, Audi, whatever, not my fault the both of you are NOT English speakers as your first language based on the quality of your post, but admit YOUR misunderstanding of the language and move on and don't try to twist my post from it's intended meaning as it was intended all the time.

FYI it matters NOT which brand it is if it is overtaking you on the autobahn, YOU MOVE OVER or you get a hefty fine!! Now argue that point? There are and have been plenty of VW products in German trim that are every bit as top end as most other German brands, we were passed by a Ford Focus station wagon like we were anchored at over 140MPH not KPH either.

You wrote "In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes" in the middle of a debate on the VW brand reputation among expats and Thais.

Sorry but even though english is my second language I fail to see how anybody except you would have included in "VW and their products" Audis and Porsches considering the context of the discussion.

Even including Audis and Porsches, your comment doesn't make sense because Seat, Skoda and cheap VWs like Golfs and Polos are also in the VW group. Hard to imagine a Polo or a Seat Cordoba being on top of the pyramid over a class S.

So it seems we should have understood in "VW and their products" Porsches, Audis, Bentleys but not Skodas, Seats, and most Volkswagens. But Porsche, Audi and Bentley were not part of VW when it rebuilt Germany after the war and gained a lot of respect, so it still doesn't make sense. I guess that must be my misunderstanding of the language.

But wait, it's not over! Actually, it doesn't matter which brand it is. Okay, but what were you talking exactly about this unwritten rule on the Autobahn and that pyramid in the first place?

[stevenl]

Geez IMHO you're on a roll! It's refreshing to see such frank honesty. For anyone who cares to know? In Germany there is an unwritten rule regarding right of way on the Autobahn, and VW and their products are at the top of that pyramid over both BMW and Mercedes, in their minds VW both built and after WWII, rebuilt Germany.

Sorry, but this isn't true, I am German and I would say Benz, BMW, Audi and than VW...although VW is catching up more and more and closing the gap.

I guess I should believe you over the multitude of Germans I spoke with both before and during my trip there then? Especially given that VW dwarfs the other manufacturers mentioned and it is supposedly ranked according to company sales, last I checked Audi was part of the VW group.

You should believe him because he is correct. Benz and BMW are at the top of the pack.

From a frequent former autobahn user.

[stevenl]

I really understand Thai on this point, VW are sold at ridiculous prices in Thailand and that it's so stupid to buy this.

At least with Benz and BMW you get a sort of luxury for the price, but what do you get with VW ? Cars that are not even taxi in Europe ? yes ! (because cheap charlies in Thailand often remind me that Benz and BMW are just taxi in Europe, but VW are not even taxi because they really are the lowest type of German cars).

Even Mini I can understand that people pay more than 2 millions for that box, but for a VW, I still cannot get it.

I would say Opel would be perceived the lowest, not vw. But do you want to class Opel a German carmaker?

[nev]

Go for the GTi you get more letter's for your money than just an R.