UN endorses Iran nuclear deal with 6 world powers

[Neurath]

Quite true that the identification of State power with Theocratic principles is a menace. When they're one and the same it's even worse. When they're one and the same and come packaged with nuclear weapons it's disastrous. How best to avoid the later, and encourage conditions such that people don't want or won't tolerate the former. Doubtful that bombing or sanctions without end will do either of those things. Iranians are very much nationalists -and given their history very rightly so.

[Ulysses G.]

Your opinion and yours to own, but you avoided the centrifuge issue.

Actually I didn't avoid the centrifuge issue.. The centrifuges increased before all the sanctions were in place in 2010.

Iran Staggers as Sanctions Hit Economy

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/world/middleeast/iran-staggers-as-sanctions-hit-economy.html

[Publicus]

a country full of oil, but they need a nuclear plant for .... ???

The reason the Mullahs want is to preserve their Islamofascist autocratic power. They see the success of North Korean leadership in staying in power and how getting a nuke weapons program ensures that. Then they see what happened in Libya and think the North Korean option is better.

Ah-hem, when did the ayatollahs say they think the so-called North Korean "option" is "better". A lot of us missed that part of the ayatollah's Friday sermons so I'd hope someone has the video if not the tape. Nukes, ayatollahs and videotape.

Referring also to an allegation in a prior post, I have just read the thread up to this point to include the OP yet I found no one giving "support to the hateful Iranian position." Unless that is one might be referring to the letter of advice and consent to the ayatollah sent by the 47+1 Republican US Senators.

This is a deal that is agreed by people who completely distrust each other and that really and intensely don't like one another. Nobody at the P5+1 table trusted the guy sitting to his right or the guy to his left, nor did anybody trust the one sitting across the table not to mention totally distrusting the guy in the back sitting against the wall. A number of us in Nato, the EU and at the UN had noted some time ago that Chamberlain trusted Hitler and so did Joe Stalin trust Hitler, so.I'd be reasonably confident the ayatollahs have taken note of our own historical notetaking.

This is a done deal.

The deal that is a deal got the unanimous support of the 15 members of the UNSC, the entire EU and it has had the unreserved support of the UN General Assembly since the P5+1 were formed in 2006. Iran had no choice and neither does the lame duck veto Congress. Opponents in Congress are screwed because Prez Obama is veto-proof, all of which comes down to how and why the Constitution was written in its increasingly venerable ways.

[Jingthing]

Ah yes, the best of all possible deals. That's the ticket!

The Iranians are still working towards nuclear weapons and they will surely get them unless someone stops them, and this deal certainly won't stop them.

[Credo]

Ah yes, the best of all possible deals. That's the ticket!

The Iranians are still working towards nuclear weapons and they will surely get them unless someone stops them, and this deal certainly won't stop them.

With or without a deal they are setting to place the conditions to eventually get nuclear weapons. Hopefully this agreement will slow that process down.

[Jingthing]

Right.

Delay.

So what?

The Mullahs still get the weapons.

Plus a boat load of cash.

Plus the cash to placate their civilian population enough with material goodies to avoid revolution.

Plus the cash the massively fund their bad behavior in the Middle East region.

Plus minimizing the chances of a U.S. supported attack on their nuclear program.

Plus becoming a very major power in the region, heading towards having nuclear weapons.

Not to mention the Death to the USA / Death to Israel rallies.

Follow what I said before.

It's about the Mullahs retaining total power in Iran and also getting nuclear weapons which is part of their plan to retain total power. That's what the regime fears the most ... losing their grip on total power in Iran. This deal seems the best bet for them to do that. Again. see NORTH KOREA.

Optimists hope with this DELAY the Mullahs will change their stripes.

Why would they?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Credo]

Perhaps a little time being closer to the Western world and more integrated into the overall social, financial and economic systems will soften the Mullahs. Maybe we will have nicer Mullahs in the future. Nobody knows for sure.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps a little time being closer to the Western world and more integrated into the overall social, financial and economic systems will soften the Mullahs. Maybe we will have nicer Mullahs in the future. Nobody knows for sure.

Sure I agree nobody knows anything for sure, but you just presented a pipe dream not based on logic.

[sdanielmcev]

a country full of oil, but they need a nuclear plant for .... ???

The reason the Mullahs want is to preserve their Islamofascist autocratic power. They see the success of North Korean leadership in staying in power and how getting a nuke weapons program ensures that. Then they see what happened in Libya and think the North Korean option is better.

Ah-hem, when did the ayatollahs say they think the so-called North Korean "option" is "better". A lot of us missed that part of the ayatollah's Friday sermons so I'd hope someone has the video if not the tape. Nukes, ayatollahs and videotape.

Referring also to an allegation in a prior post, I have just read the thread up to this point to include the OP yet I found no one giving "support to the hateful Iranian position." Unless that is one might be referring to the letter of advice and consent to the ayatollah sent by the 47+1 Republican US Senators.

This is a deal that is agreed by people who completely distrust each other and that really and intensely don't like one another. Nobody at the P5+1 table trusted the guy sitting to his right or the guy to his left, nor did anybody trust the one sitting across the table not to mention totally distrusting the guy in the back sitting against the wall. A number of us in Nato, the EU and at the UN had noted some time ago that Chamberlain trusted Hitler and so did Joe Stalin trust Hitler, so.I'd be reasonably confident the ayatollahs have taken note of our own historical notetaking.

This is a done deal.

The deal that is a deal got the unanimous support of the 15 members of the UNSC, the entire EU and it has had the unreserved support of the UN General Assembly since the P5+1 were formed in 2006. Iran had no choice and neither does the lame duck veto Congress. Opponents in Congress are screwed because Prez Obama is veto-proof, all of which comes down to how and why the Constitution was written in its increasingly venerable ways.

As I've said before, Obama cannot veto a treaty that the Senate does not ratify. Or ratifies. And Congress, both the House of Representatives and the Senate are never lame ducks. Only a second term President after the mid-term elections becomes a lame duck. As Obama is now.

[hawker9000]

a country full of oil, but they need a nuclear plant for .... ???

The reason the Mullahs want is to preserve their Islamofascist autocratic power. They see the success of North Korean leadership in staying in power and how getting a nuke weapons program ensures that. Then they see what happened in Libya and think the North Korean option is better.

Ah-hem, when did the ayatollahs say they think the so-called North Korean "option" is "better". A lot of us missed that part of the ayatollah's Friday sermons so I'd hope someone has the video if not the tape. Nukes, ayatollahs and videotape.

Referring also to an allegation in a prior post, I have just read the thread up to this point to include the OP yet I found no one giving "support to the hateful Iranian position." Unless that is one might be referring to the letter of advice and consent to the ayatollah sent by the 47+1 Republican US Senators.

This is a deal that is agreed by people who completely distrust each other and that really and intensely don't like one another. Nobody at the P5+1 table trusted the guy sitting to his right or the guy to his left, nor did anybody trust the one sitting across the table not to mention totally distrusting the guy in the back sitting against the wall. A number of us in Nato, the EU and at the UN had noted some time ago that Chamberlain trusted Hitler and so did Joe Stalin trust Hitler, so.I'd be reasonably confident the ayatollahs have taken note of our own historical notetaking.

This is a done deal.

The deal that is a deal got the unanimous support of the 15 members of the UNSC, the entire EU and it has had the unreserved support of the UN General Assembly since the P5+1 were formed in 2006. Iran had no choice and neither does the lame duck veto Congress. Opponents in Congress are screwed because Prez Obama is veto-proof, all of which comes down to how and why the Constitution was written in its increasingly venerable ways.

As I've said before, Obama cannot veto a treaty that the Senate does not ratify. Or ratifies. And Congress, both the House of Representatives and the Senate are never lame ducks. Only a second term President after the mid-term elections becomes a lame duck. As Obama is now.

Ahh, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not a "treaty", and no "ratification" by the Senate is needed. The House & Senate can vote it down, but Obama can veto that action. The House & Senate can then override the veto, but they simply don't have the votes to do that. This IS a done deal, and whatever you think about it, the sanctions (which were imposed by the UN, not unilaterally by the U.S.) on Iran WILL be lifted. And once lifted, you'll have to move heaven & hell to ever reimpose them, no matter what Iran does or doesn't do and no matter the fact that Obama's lips are moving. American businesses are already working on their plans for the resumption of commerce with Iran, and economists are already at work figuring out what the impact of this new glut of oil on the market will be.