A Palestinian village braces for Israeli demolition

[RuamRudy]

If the Palestinians want peace, all they have to do is recognize Israel and sign a peace treaty. They have refused for almost 70 years.

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel' .

I can't express the bottom line any better than that. Put aside all this bickering over settlements and gaza and deal with those 2 statements. This is the Big Picture. The amount of truth you are able to give to these statements is roughly the amount of understanding you have for Israel's actions. Except of course those of you who already agree with the typical stereotypes - Jews "greedy", " blight on the world"

Is it so inconceivable to you that you can oppose the Israeli actions whilst holding no emnity towards the Jewish people, or do you also throw this slur around in an attempt to smear those who hold a light to Israeli apartheid?

Of course both sides need to take conciliatory actions, but the Israelis impose their unjust policies on ordinary Palestinians on a daily basis - any rational person can see how that will play out.

[Harveyg]

tv.PNG

Actually full control of the area was handed back over to Israel over 20 years ago. You understand the squatters are squatting at the ruins of a Jewish Temple, right? A Temple dating back to the 4th century, before Islam was even born. Palestine has never existed. There has never (up until Gaza) a Palestinian country, government or anything else. Palestinian is a corruption of the word Felestinia (Philistine) and the Felstinia were slaves of the Romans who occupied Israel at the time. They came from a small area near Greece so if anything, they should be squatting over there. Israel has every right to demolish this illegal camp if they wish to.

Spare us the pseudo history and deflections.

The bottom line for all Palestinian delegitimizers is this: even if you think there was was never a country called Palestine, well think again...because there is one now...recognized by 70% of the world's countries with more to follow. And just like Israelis they are not going away. So get over it, and start thinking towards the future rather than wallowing in a spurious past that convinces no-one except Zionists.

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution (giving back land they are attempting futilely to swallow up in the OP), they will find themselves in a one state solution, having to absorb 4.5 Palestinians, and losing any hope of a state with a predominantly Jewish character.

Here's the thing that you and other Jew haters can't get through your head (or don't want to as it will interfere with your anti-Jew views) and that's the fact - yes FACT - that the only people preventing peace is Hamas and the Gazans. Their charter calls for the absolute destruction of Israel - fact. The history lesson I gave you is nothing 'pseudo'. It's fact. When Britain signed the charter in 1947 returning Israel to the Jews, according to the British Mandate the population was 1.9 million of which 68% were Arabs and 31% Jews (the discrepancy of 1% is allowing for Bedouins). Most of the so-called Palestinians came from Saudi and Syria to find work with the Jews. The region was dissected - it was called Transjordan one side of the river became Israel again and one became Jordan. The Palestinian population was split between Jordan and Israel. How come |I don't hear you calling for Jordan to give the land back to somebody? Oh I know the answer, because they're not Jews, right? There's 2.1 million registered Palestinians in Jordan and 370,000 in camps yet I don't hear you or your mates calling for help for them? People like you make me vomit, you know nothing of the region except you don't like Jews.

You are most welcome to call me a Zionist hater and a current right wing Israeli government hater...they are badges I wear proudly, but please don't call me an anti Semite. That is a reportable offense on this forum.There is not a racist/religionist bone in my body.

I am quite willing to debate your phony history of Israel/Palestine but I believe we may be drifting off topic. Another thread another time maybe.

Fair enough Dexterm. Perhaps you are an exception. Two serious questions I'd like to ask you.
I believe them foundational to any conversation re land appropriation.
1. Could you give some idea of what you think Zionism is and a source for your thinking? Personally the desire and even demand for a Jewish homeland leaves me wondering why someone would be a Zionist hater (and proudly so) if they were not otherwise antisemitic. I briefly looked for such a source but so far came up empty.

2. In these multitudes of word battles on this forum that began long before I arrived and will doubtless continue after I'm gone, have you ever noted what you might consider 'racist/religionist' bones in any of the posters' bodies?

Nothing wrong with one, two or whatever amount of Jewish homelands where they can govern and choose their own path and destiny. If the Jews was given a not inhabited chunk of Greenland or Alaska they could have made it into as many sovereign states as they wanted and this discussion on the forum would unlikely have occured.

If the Israelis withdraw from the land stolen since 1967 and live within Israels borders from there on I will not complain here anymore.

Thx for jumping in BkkB. I like your 2nd comment more than your first. The generosity of the 1st one almost knocked me over. It's a wonder the UN never considered it.

As for your 2nd one, using 'stolen' I believe is way too simple an explanation.
When Arabs start a war and lose and Israel keeps land for strategic purposes I suppose you could use the word stolen, right? A matter of viewpoint. Arab: I don't accept your existence, I want you out, all of you. We will destroy you next time. How dare you keep some of my land....
As to settlements... Well it's a bit like bombing children in Gaza situated (deliberately so) next to where rockets emanate from, only more heinous. The settlements are almost a very clever way to say to the Arabs that the more you want to destroy us the more pressure we will put on you, your actions are not without consequence. It really does seem the Arab style Islam has a different regard for human life.
Would any westerner put his children in harm's way the way Arabs do? How far removed is the day to day thinking of Arabs from that of ISil? Closer than mine I'll wager.
Have u noticed at Swampy, maybe 2 years ago, the intake staff asked questions about baggage: Who packed your bags today sir? Have you been in possession of them the whole time? Has anyone given you something to carry for them? You do know where these questions come from. The Arabs have trained the Israelis to prepare for all contingencies without exception. Security procedures are followed meticulously. All manner of anticipated attacks are searched and thwarted as they appear. Boats, tunnels... The bombing of Iraq in 1980. And Iran? We'll see....

Ohh... I see you didn't address my 2nd question. ....have you ever noted what you might consider 'racist/religionist' bones in any of the posters' bodies?

[Ulysses G.]

Is it so inconceivable to you that you can oppose the Israeli actions whilst holding no emnity towards the Jewish people

Of course it is possible. A lot of it is just left-wing fashion, but if you look at the goals of the BDS movement, the anti-Semitic protests held all over the world and the words and actions of the obsessive Israel-bashers on the Internet, it soon becomes obvious that hatred of Jews is the main driver of the anti-Israel movement, no matter how they pretend otherwise. Anti-Semitism gives haters another excuse to hate. It never goes away.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Harveyg]

by the time the jews have finished building Palestine will be no more than a memory they are a greedy nation greedy for land which is not theirs to take more and more and the world just watches and does nothing they are a blight on the face of the planet .

The one thing about anti semites is that they really can't disguise their hate.

Like Hitler said,

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.

It is possible to dislike, even hate, Israel for what they do to the Palestinians and still like Jewish people.

Then maybe it might be better to choose someone else to quote from??

[thaibeachlovers]

Cutting funding to our closest ally in the Middle East would be a lot more ridiculous.

Most of the money that the USA gives Israel has been used to purchase goods and services from America, so that American aid money is recycled back into the American economy. Nearly 90% of US aid to Israel is military, and Israel spends about 75% of that purchasing U.S. goods. This aid is really an American subsidy to U.S. arms manufacturers.

Israel is a strong military ally. The security cooperation between Israel and the United States is huge, and Israel has consistently been a major security asset to the United States, an asset upon which America can rely, far more than other recipients of American funds.

Israel is the world's leading expert in collecting intelligence on terrorist groups and in counter-terrorism. It provides military intelligence and know-how to the U.S. worth far more than what we give them in Aid.

On top of intelligence, if there were no Israel, the US would have to deploy aircraft carriers to the area, along with tens of thousands of US soldiers, which would cost tens of billions of dollars annually. Gen. Alexander Haig called Israel "the largest US aircraft carrier, which does not require even one US soldier, cannot be sunk, is the most cost-effective and battle-tested, located in a region which is critical to vital US interests."

if there were no Israel, the US would have to deploy aircraft carriers to the area, along with tens of thousands of US soldiers

If Israel didn't exist there would be no reason to deploy carriers or troops.

Have you not noticed that with the exception of Syria, all the neighbouring countries are allies of the US? So who would your carriers be deployed against? Iran is the main threat and that is miles and miles and miles away from the Med.

[RuamRudy]

Is it so inconceivable to you that you can oppose the Israeli actions whilst holding no emnity towards the Jewish people

Of course it is possible. However, a lot of it is just left-wing fashion but if you look at the goals of the BDS movement, the anti-Semitic protests held all over the world and the words and actions of the obsessive Israel-bashers on the Internet, it soon becomes obvious that hatred of Jews is the main driver of the anti-Israel movement. Anti-Semitism gives haters another excuse to hate. It never goes away.

Fashion or bigotry? You don't leave a lot of room for those of us who simply seek to see an end to what we perceive to be unjust, immoral situations wherever they may be.

[thaibeachlovers]

When Israel was forcibly carved out of Jordan, to get the troublesome Jews out of Europe, there was no idea that the newly transplanted Jews would practice the same holocaust on the indigenous peoples that Hitler did.

Anyone who thinks that "Israel was carved out of Jordan" does not have the slightest idea of what they are talking about. Jordan was taken from the British Mandate of Palestine - the land meant to be the homeland for the Jewish people. If anything, you have it backwards.

Now you are making it up. The British took over Palestine from the Turks after WW1 and it was not then intended as a "homeland" for Jews. It was only after the Jewish terrorism ( Irgun, Begin, Stern gang ) campaign made Britain run away that it was considered as a homeland for the Jews. Before that it was intended to be occupied by both Arabs and Jews.

[Ulysses G.]

Please Google "The Balfour Declaration" and educate yourself. It was issued in 1917, something like 20 years before the Irgun, Stern Gang years. I'm not making anything up.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Lissos]

Of course both sides need to take conciliatory actions, but the Israelis impose their unjust policies on ordinary Palestinians on a daily basis - any rational person can see how that will play out.

Overall I would put it this way. 'Some' Israeli policies appear to be malice driven or concealing (badly) a vision for certain areas. I will concede that, but plenty of other totally common sense policies of theirs based on bitter 'experience' over many decades, make perfect sense to me (and them).

The trouble is, more often than not all of it is written off wholesale as a "Brutal occupation". From the Israeli point of view (and mine) many of their policies make perfect sense given the climate of the long history, regardless of how 'petty' procedures may look to those living far from the climate itself for whom those procedures seem hard for the sake of being hard. I also know from personal experience that the West Bank is not quite how it gets portrayed, as some kind of torturous prison camp of poverty.

It is a patchwork where sections of people 'do' live in grim conditions and strife of stress over slivers of land, and others live in obscene (in the face of the usual narrative) wealth simultaneously, often viewing the tyre burning poor as their equivalent of sink estate chavs they want nothing to do with and have no intention of assisting. To add to this, they employ private security in their gated communities to keep the riff raff out.

If we were to agree on one thing, I reckon it would be that this whole drama has far more twists and turns in it on both sides than the surface scrum, and those who don't dig under the surface to the long bitter history and ideological factors fuelling it, will always be playing a futile table tennis surface war of words over the skin symptoms of a far deeper illness.

[Ulysses G.]

Is it so inconceivable to you that you can oppose the Israeli actions whilst holding no emnity towards the Jewish people

Of course it is possible. However, a lot of it is just left-wing fashion but if you look at the goals of the BDS movement, the anti-Semitic protests held all over the world and the words and actions of the obsessive Israel-bashers on the Internet, it soon becomes obvious that hatred of Jews is the main driver of the anti-Israel movement. Anti-Semitism gives haters another excuse to hate. It never goes away.

Fashion or bigotry? You don't leave a lot of room for those of us who simply seek to see an end to what we perceive to be unjust, immoral situations wherever they may be.

Actually, that is where fashion comes in. There are a lot of people who have no idea about the facts of certain situation - as seen on this forum every day - but have very strong opinions anyway.

[RuamRudy]

Is it so inconceivable to you that you can oppose the Israeli actions whilst holding no emnity towards the Jewish people

Of course it is possible. However, a lot of it is just left-wing fashion but if you look at the goals of the BDS movement, the anti-Semitic protests held all over the world and the words and actions of the obsessive Israel-bashers on the Internet, it soon becomes obvious that hatred of Jews is the main driver of the anti-Israel movement. Anti-Semitism gives haters another excuse to hate. It never goes away.

Fashion or bigotry? You don't leave a lot of room for those of us who simply seek to see an end to what we perceive to be unjust, immoral situations wherever they may be.

Actually, that is where fashion comes in. There are a lot of people who have no idea about the facts of certain situation - as seen on this forum every day - but have very strong opinions anyway.

You don't need a doctorate in ancient history or conflict studies to recognise a situation as being unjust. Sure, there will be nuances and factors that are not immediately obvious, but when one justifies one's claim by referencing civilizations from thousands of years ago, they cannot be taken seriously. It is the very holding of these ancient claims and grievances by all sides that is hampering a fair and equitable resolution.

[Ulysses G.]

It is the very holding of these ancient claims and grievances by all sides that is hampering a fair and equitable resolution.

There is some truth in this, but when I see you and your ilk pretty much exclusively attacking Israel, I don't take your pretense at fairness seriously. The Palestinians are just as much to blame for their situation as the Israelis are, if not more so.

[RuamRudy]

It is the very holding of these ancient claims and grievances by all sides that is hampering a fair and equitable resolution.

There is some truth in this, but when I see you and your ilk pretty much exclusively attacking Israel, I don't take your pretense at fairness seriously. The Palestinians are just as much to blame for their situation as the Israelis are, if not more so.

I am opposed to injustice in all forms - this thread is about what I perceive to be an injustice (numerous, in fact), with the only justification being a 2000 year old sense of entitlement from the aggressors.

The children of Palestine, like the children of Israel, have played no contributing part in this tragedy. However they will inheirit the mess their parents are creating, and they are already being conditioned to perpetuate it. It takes a brave man to try to change the flow of things, and unfortunately there is not a brave man on either side of the fence.

[Ulysses G.]

Like I said about people with ignorant opinions, the Palestinian Arabs started the violence about the beginning of last century - when the outnumbered the Jews - and have kept it up ever since. THEY are the aggressors, even if they keep losing every battle and every war. However, that is not who you are referring to.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Thorgal]

Please Google "The Balfour Declaration" and educate yourself. It was issued in 1917, something like 20 years before the Irgun, Stern Gang years. I'm not making anything up.

Quote from link :

Hashomer was a Jewish defense organization in Palestine founded out of Bar-Giora in April 1909. It ceased to operate after the founding of the Haganah in 1920.

The Haganah itself became the core of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashomer

[RuamRudy]

Like I said about people with ignorant opinions, the Palestinian Arabs started the violence about the beginning of last century - when the outnumbered the Jews - and have kept it up ever since. THEY are the aggressors, even if they keep losing every battle and every war. However, that is not who you are referring to.

Your retort is a clear example of why this debate will go on for years to come as long as the people in charge continue think like you.

But you are right, I was not referring to the aggressors of 100 years ago. I was referring to the injustices of the here and now because those are the seeds of tomorrow's hatred.

[Ulysses G.]

But you are right, I was not referring to the aggressors of 100 years ago. I was referring to the injustices of the here and now because those are the seeds of tomorrow's hatred.

Somehow, I suspect you are not talking about suicide bombs and thousands of rockets shot at civilians in Israel.

[arjunadawn]

Hot off the press, debunking the latest lies concerning the Palestinian settlement.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-myth-of-susiya.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This issue and its "facts" are a microcosom of the entire macrocosmic Arab pretense/argument to in this region (highest among others the ridiculous claim to the Holy Mount- that's the height of Arab contrived histories).

I am not saying there are not valid issues, valid grievances, inequities, and sore injuries to dignity in this region. I am saying the Arabs, as an instrument of being an inferior armed force, have shouldered the mantle of the wounded victim to such a degree that they now perfect it as an instrument of (low intensity) war. They couple this manufactured perspective with imagined histories, and lie to revise and fabricate facts just enough to be dubious and throw into question any opposing perspective from the Israelis. This, along with the victim status so long cultivated and nurtured by the liberal West, enables them to successfully fast track every issue to the court of public opinion and further indict their enemy for real, and in this case, imagined wrongs. This may or may not be a valid course for a people to war when left with few other resources, but it is incumbent upon intelligent people to at least know what is happening, rather than having intellect viscerally hijacked by manufactured emotion.The Arab PR machine in this region is a Wag the Dog creation if their ever was.

Yes, I know these camps of sadness and despair. The appeal to emotion does not make what is asserted true.

[Ulysses G.]

Please Google "The Balfour Declaration" and educate yourself. It was issued in 1917, something like 20 years before the Irgun, Stern Gang years. I'm not making anything up.

Quote from link :

Hashomer was a Jewish defense organization in Palestine founded out of Bar-Giora in April 1909. It ceased to operate after the founding of the Haganah in 1920.

Thanks for the trivial pursuit info, but - as usual - this has nothing to do with the discussion.- read the quote that I was responding to below.

These guys were watchmen - defending against Arab marauders - and had nothing to do with Irgun, Begin or the Stern Gang. That period was about 30 years later.

The 1917 Balfour Declaration, declared that the British favored a Jewish homeland in Palestine. It was long before Jewish "terrorism".

It was only after the Jewish terrorism ( Irgun, Begin, Stern gang ) campaign made Britain run away that it was considered as a homeland for the Jews. Before that it was intended to be occupied by both Arabs and Jews.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

tv.PNG

Actually full control of the area was handed back over to Israel over 20 years ago. You understand the squatters are squatting at the ruins of a Jewish Temple, right? A Temple dating back to the 4th century, before Islam was even born. Palestine has never existed. There has never (up until Gaza) a Palestinian country, government or anything else. Palestinian is a corruption of the word Felestinia (Philistine) and the Felstinia were slaves of the Romans who occupied Israel at the time. They came from a small area near Greece so if anything, they should be squatting over there. Israel has every right to demolish this illegal camp if they wish to.

Spare us the pseudo history and deflections.

The bottom line for all Palestinian delegitimizers is this: even if you think there was was never a country called Palestine, well think again...because there is one now...recognized by 70% of the world's countries with more to follow. And just like Israelis they are not going away. So get over it, and start thinking towards the future rather than wallowing in a spurious past that convinces no-one except Zionists.

If Israelis don't get serious soon about discussing a just peace in a 2 state solution (giving back land they are attempting futilely to swallow up in the OP), they will find themselves in a one state solution, having to absorb 4.5 Palestinians, and losing any hope of a state with a predominantly Jewish character.

Here's the thing that you and other Jew haters can't get through your head (or don't want to as it will interfere with your anti-Jew views) and that's the fact - yes FACT - that the only people preventing peace is Hamas and the Gazans. Their charter calls for the absolute destruction of Israel - fact. The history lesson I gave you is nothing 'pseudo'. It's fact. When Britain signed the charter in 1947 returning Israel to the Jews, according to the British Mandate the population was 1.9 million of which 68% were Arabs and 31% Jews (the discrepancy of 1% is allowing for Bedouins). Most of the so-called Palestinians came from Saudi and Syria to find work with the Jews. The region was dissected - it was called Transjordan one side of the river became Israel again and one became Jordan. The Palestinian population was split between Jordan and Israel. How come |I don't hear you calling for Jordan to give the land back to somebody? Oh I know the answer, because they're not Jews, right? There's 2.1 million registered Palestinians in Jordan and 370,000 in camps yet I don't hear you or your mates calling for help for them? People like you make me vomit, you know nothing of the region except you don't like Jews.

You are most welcome to call me a Zionist hater and a current right wing Israeli government hater...they are badges I wear proudly, but please don't call me an anti Semite. That is a reportable offense on this forum.There is not a racist/religionist bone in my body.

I am quite willing to debate your phony history of Israel/Palestine but I believe we may be drifting off topic. Another thread another time maybe.

Fair enough Dexterm. Perhaps you are an exception. Two serious questions I'd like to ask you.

I believe them foundational to any conversation re land appropriation.

1. Could you give some idea of what you think Zionism is and a source for your thinking? Personally the desire and even demand for a Jewish homeland leaves me wondering why someone would be a Zionist hater (and proudly so) if they were not otherwise antisemitic. I briefly looked for such a source but so far came up empty.

2. In these multitudes of word battles on this forum that began long before I arrived and will doubtless continue after I'm gone, have you ever noted what you might consider 'racist/religionist' bones in any of the posters' bodies?

Nothing wrong with one, two or whatever amount of Jewish homelands where they can govern and choose their own path and destiny. If the Jews was given a not inhabited chunk of Greenland or Alaska they could have made it into as many sovereign states as they wanted and this discussion on the forum would unlikely have occured.

If the Israelis withdraw from the land stolen since 1967 and live within Israels borders from there on I will not complain here anymore.

Thx for jumping in BkkB. I like your 2nd comment more than your first. The generosity of the 1st one almost knocked me over. It's a wonder the UN never considered it.

As for your 2nd one, using 'stolen' I believe is way too simple an explanation.

When Arabs start a war and lose and Israel keeps land for strategic purposes I suppose you could use the word stolen, right? A matter of viewpoint. Arab: I don't accept your existence, I want you out, all of you. We will destroy you next time. How dare you keep some of my land....

As to settlements... Well it's a bit like bombing children in Gaza situated (deliberately so) next to where rockets emanate from, only more heinous. The settlements are almost a very clever way to say to the Arabs that the more you want to destroy us the more pressure we will put on you, your actions are not without consequence. It really does seem the Arab style Islam has a different regard for human life.

Would any westerner put his children in harm's way the way Arabs do? How far removed is the day to day thinking of Arabs from that of ISil? Closer than mine I'll wager.

Have u noticed at Swampy, maybe 2 years ago, the intake staff asked questions about baggage: Who packed your bags today sir? Have you been in possession of them the whole time? Has anyone given you something to carry for them? You do know where these questions come from. The Arabs have trained the Israelis to prepare for all contingencies without exception. Security procedures are followed meticulously. All manner of anticipated attacks are searched and thwarted as they appear. Boats, tunnels... The bombing of Iraq in 1980. And Iran? We'll see....

Ohh... I see you didn't address my 2nd question. ....have you ever noted what you might consider 'racist/religionist' bones in any of the posters' bodies?

Yes I have noticed racist posts in Israel threads. Nothing compares to threads that has a connection to a Muslim or Muslims, they turn into slagging off contests and no one makes a fuss. I dont enter those threads to defend the Muslims, why should I give special care about the occasional anti-Semitic posts?

[RuamRudy]

But you are right, I was not referring to the aggressors of 100 years ago. I was referring to the injustices of the here and now because those are the seeds of tomorrow's hatred.

Somehow, I suspect you are not talking about suicide bombs and thousands of rockets shot at civilians in Israel.

Of course I condemn these actions outright, but their effect is barely a tickle in comparison to the daily brutality meted out to the Palestinians.

It appears that the Israeli position is to maintain the status quo until the Palestinians kneel down in front of them and beg for peace on any terms. I think we all agree that this will never happen. So the indignations and collective punishment continues. The youth of today who are signing up to Hamas have known nothing their whole life but the privations and humiliations imposed by Israel. Their hatred of Israel and their desire to inflict damage upon it is entirely lamentable, but it is not without substance provocation.

Edited July 26, 2015 by RuamRudy

[Seastallion]

Hot off the press, debunking the latest lies concerning the Palestinian settlement.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-myth-of-susiya.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This issue and its "facts" are a microcosom of the entire macrocosmic Arab pretense/argument to in this region (highest among others the ridiculous claim to the Holy Mount- that's the height of Arab contrived histories).

I am not saying there are not valid issues, valid grievances, inequities, and sore injuries to dignity in this region. I am saying the Arabs, as an instrument of being an inferior armed force, have shouldered the mantle of the wounded victim to such a degree that they now perfect it as an instrument of (low intensity) war. They couple this manufactured perspective with imagined histories, and lie to revise and fabricate facts just enough to be dubious and throw into question any opposing perspective from the Israelis. This, along with the victim status so long cultivated and nurtured by the liberal West, enables them to successfully fast track every issue to the court of public opinion and further indict their enemy for real, and in this case, imagined wrongs. This may or may not be a valid course for a people to war when left with few other resources, but it is incumbent upon intelligent people to at least know what is happening, rather than having intellect viscerally hijacked by manufactured emotion.The Arab PR machine in this region is a Wag the Dog creation if their ever was.

Yes, I know these camps of sadness and despair. The appeal to emotion does not make what is asserted true.

"have shouldered the mantle of the wounded victim to such a degree that they now perfect it as an instrument of (low intensity) war."

Wow....nice phraseology, and words that fit so perfectly with the other side of the conflict to which you are referring. It's ironic that you, having penned the words, appear to be a consumer of that victimhood.

[ggold]

Ah bless, if some Romanian pikeys constructed a corrugated iron shanty town across the street from some of our esteemed members I bet they would have called the police, fire brigade and national guard before having a seizure.

The houses were unlicensed and possibly even dangerous, though had they been left to stand and came down on their occupants heads it would still be Israel's fault.

But I almost forgot the Palestinians are nothing more than ammunition to fire at Israel, the total silence over the 2900 of them murdered in Syria amply demonstrates this.

The houses were unlicensed and possibly even dangerous,

You are blaming the victims for their problems, rather than putting the blame on Israel for not giving them building permits. It is THEIR land, unlike the ILLEGAL settler structures built on occupied land.

Israel keeps giving the world a reason to hate them.

I used to support Israel, but now.....................( can't say what I really think ).

That's what I said in another thread as well. Worldwide Israel has been supported by many for a long time, but that support has been evaporating significantly over the years and also at the moment the support for Israel is getting less and less.

And that has nothing to do with growing anti Semitism, but with more and more people disagreeing with Israels policies, especially the continuing occupation of Palestinian land and the growing number of settlements there.

I think that is a myth created by the arabs, in truth there has been no new settlements created for some years now, as Netanyahu has put a freeze on new settlements these past few years.

But if you disagree please post a link that proves new settlements have been built, say within the last three years!

[arjunadawn]

Hot off the press, debunking the latest lies concerning the Palestinian settlement.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-myth-of-susiya.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This issue and its "facts" are a microcosom of the entire macrocosmic Arab pretense/argument to in this region (highest among others the ridiculous claim to the Holy Mount- that's the height of Arab contrived histories).

I am not saying there are not valid issues, valid grievances, inequities, and sore injuries to dignity in this region. I am saying the Arabs, as an instrument of being an inferior armed force, have shouldered the mantle of the wounded victim to such a degree that they now perfect it as an instrument of (low intensity) war. They couple this manufactured perspective with imagined histories, and lie to revise and fabricate facts just enough to be dubious and throw into question any opposing perspective from the Israelis. This, along with the victim status so long cultivated and nurtured by the liberal West, enables them to successfully fast track every issue to the court of public opinion and further indict their enemy for real, and in this case, imagined wrongs. This may or may not be a valid course for a people to war when left with few other resources, but it is incumbent upon intelligent people to at least know what is happening, rather than having intellect viscerally hijacked by manufactured emotion.The Arab PR machine in this region is a Wag the Dog creation if their ever was.

Yes, I know these camps of sadness and despair. The appeal to emotion does not make what is asserted true.

"have shouldered the mantle of the wounded victim to such a degree that they now perfect it as an instrument of (low intensity) war."

Wow....nice phraseology, and words that fit so perfectly with the other side of the conflict to which you are referring. It's ironic that you, having penned the words, appear to be a consumer of that victimhood.

Ah...seeing as others already agree with you, I am unclear why my comments turn an analysis on me. Also, I really dont get it. As others get it, I can only conclude my mind misses the point. Being a victim and wearing victim-hood as an amulet are not the same thing.

Hrmm, are you saying that by the mere virtue that I perceive this fact in the Palestinian victim embracing I give credence to their technique; my observation proves the success of their aim? If so, you are correct. I have known many Palestinians and I am equally mixed with sadness and factual observation how perceptions are fabricated in this region. Collectively their plight sucks and collectively they have inculcated embracing a victim-hood. An easy and early example comes to mind of others who have also done this, of course; others with direct proximity to the local Arabs. But today we talk about the Palestinian village and I stand by my observation that when observing "facts" on the ground they should be dissected carefully as a grand psyops does exist in this region, for all.

(The problem with multi generational victim-hood is the accompanying characteristics cannot be turned off; once the goal is achieved the consequences of self assigned victim labeling remain. Decreased industry, motivation, creativity, personal and collective excellence, and a host of other healthy cultural norms are abdicated in a mindset that sells any contrived status. Living in an oppressed environment will already cause some of these things to happen to Palestinians; embracing this as victim expediency will ensure the remainder of the person is injured).

[Thorgal]

Ah bless, if some Romanian pikeys constructed a corrugated iron shanty town across the street from some of our esteemed members I bet they would have called the police, fire brigade and national guard before having a seizure.

The houses were unlicensed and possibly even dangerous, though had they been left to stand and came down on their occupants heads it would still be Israel's fault.

But I almost forgot the Palestinians are nothing more than ammunition to fire at Israel, the total silence over the 2900 of them murdered in Syria amply demonstrates this.

The houses were unlicensed and possibly even dangerous,

You are blaming the victims for their problems, rather than putting the blame on Israel for not giving them building permits. It is THEIR land, unlike the ILLEGAL settler structures built on occupied land.

Israel keeps giving the world a reason to hate them.

I used to support Israel, but now.....................( can't say what I really think ).

That's what I said in another thread as well. Worldwide Israel has been supported by many for a long time, but that support has been evaporating significantly over the years and also at the moment the support for Israel is getting less and less.

And that has nothing to do with growing anti Semitism, but with more and more people disagreeing with Israels policies, especially the continuing occupation of Palestinian land and the growing number of settlements there.

I think that is a myth created by the arabs, in truth there has been no new settlements created for some years now, as Netanyahu has put a freeze on new settlements these past few years.

But if you disagree please post a link that proves new settlements have been built, say within the last three years!

OP refers to planning and execution of an illegal demolition and land grab of a Palestinian village in the West Bank.

Once this crime committed, the land and archeological site will belong to the (neighbouring) illegal Israeli settlement of Susya and under control and jurisdiction of the Har Hebron Regional Council administration.

Adding new/more land (after demolition of housing) to an existing settlement is also a settlement activity!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susya,_Har_Hebron

All other illegal settlements discussion can be seen off topic...which I will not comment...

Edited July 26, 2015 by Thorgal

[Scott]

Post removed. This topic is not about Gaza.

[simple1]

I think that is a myth created by the arabs, in truth there has been no new settlements created for some years now, as Netanyahu has put a freeze on new settlements these past few years.

But if you disagree please post a link that proves new settlements have been built, say within the last three years!

Disingenuous...

2014: In six months 7,500 new settlers moved into the West Bank, plus 48 new housing units were built

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/according-council-settlers

Today, the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics released their summary of construction in 2013. The increase in construction starts confirms what Peace Now has been reporting throughout 2013, massive increases in construction in the West Bank. Overall, there was a 123% increase in construction starts in 2013.

http://972mag.com/nstt_feeditem/peace-now-123-increase-in-settlement-construction-in-2013/

[ggold]

The houses were unlicensed and possibly even dangerous,

You are blaming the victims for their problems, rather than putting the blame on Israel for not giving them building permits. It is THEIR land, unlike the ILLEGAL settler structures built on occupied land.

Israel keeps giving the world a reason to hate them.

I used to support Israel, but now.....................( can't say what I really think ).

That's what I said in another thread as well. Worldwide Israel has been supported by many for a long time, but that support has been evaporating significantly over the years and also at the moment the support for Israel is getting less and less.

And that has nothing to do with growing anti Semitism, but with more and more people disagreeing with Israels policies, especially the continuing occupation of Palestinian land and the growing number of settlements there.

I think that is a myth created by the arabs, in truth there has been no new settlements created for some years now, as Netanyahu has put a freeze on new settlements these past few years.

But if you disagree please post a link that proves new settlements have been built, say within the last three years!

OP refers to planning and execution of an illegal demolition and land grab of a Palestinian village in the West Bank.

Once this crime committed, the land and archeological site will belong to the (neighbouring) illegal Israeli settlement of Susya and under control and jurisdiction of the Har Hebron Regional Council administration.

Adding new/more land (after demolition of housing) to an existing settlement is also a settlement activity!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susya,_Har_Hebron

All other illegal settlements discussion can be seen off topic...which I will not comment...

So you get to decide which is off topic and which is on topic. In that case you responded to an off topic post. Which said

"especially the continuing occupation of Palestinian land and the growing number of settlements there." Which implies new settlements are being built.

The Arabs have already accepted that these settlements will remain in Israeli hands.

Also the deamonisers on here seem to have overlooked One very important point. This whole situation is still going through the legal process. There is no certainty that these building will be demolished.

But please don't let that get in the way of your rants.

For anyone to say what is or what is not on topic is just a way of trying to close the debate. I am sure if the mods think something is off topic they will tell us, we don't need posters deciding what is or isn't on topic. Thanks.

Using wikipedia is hardly proof of anything. Anyone can edit it anyone can tell lies.

[ggold]

I think that is a myth created by the arabs, in truth there has been no new settlements created for some years now, as Netanyahu has put a freeze on new settlements these past few years.

But if you disagree please post a link that proves new settlements have been built, say within the last three years!

Disingenuous...

2014: In six months 7,500 new settlers moved into the West Bank, plus 48 new housing units were built

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/according-council-settlers

Today, the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics released their summary of construction in 2013. The increase in construction starts confirms what Peace Now has been reporting throughout 2013, massive increases in construction in the West Bank. Overall, there was a 123% increase in construction starts in 2013.

http://972mag.com/nstt_feeditem/peace-now-123-increase-in-settlement-construction-in-2013/

Again this still doesn't mean there were new settlements. Israel is entitled to expand existing settlements. Neither article you link to claim that new settlements were being build.

There is an exaggeration of what is being built by those with an agenda.

[up-country_sinclair]

There are no such perpetual obligations for peace pacts and accords...

That seems to be the Palestinian attitude anyway. They eventually ignore pretty much every commitment that they make.

you mean all the UN resolutions that Israel ignores.

Ignore for VERY good reasons.

Oh, well that seems fair. If it's for VERY good reasons, that's fine then.

Hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.