Bangkok Suffers Severe Smog as PM2.5 Levels Soar Amidst Heat Wave

[jonnyscot]

[quote name="englishoak" post="9666201"

Gabriel Mato of Spain.. Possibly Europe's largest fishing fleet for size and catch.. Heavily subsidised!

http://www.icij.org/project/looting-seas-ii/nearly-eu6-billion-subsidies-fuel-spains-ravenous-fleet

Or taking illegal catches.. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.htmlAnd has been goin on for many years, as I said earlier either in this topic or the other fishing related one, the euro's aren't squeaky clean, illegal fishing still goes on there because it is very difficult to properly control, they're monitoring fish factory records , increased mesh sizes, put escape windows in nets, to help reduce overfishing and allow young fish to escape, but only works properly if every country complies,, certainly too much to expect thailand to do in 6 months

Its had years and enough warnings. They will never be ready until made to be... if they dont like it then go sell to another market no problem. I'm glad your comment confirms it's not down to prayuth who I'd say is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances, being left with so many issues to fix, yes he has the option to delegate a suitably experienced minister to implement change which I'm sure he will eventually do after properly investigating how to best fix the problem,

sure, they can also explore other markets to sell to but I'd guess some of the end customers in Europe who can't afford to buy or source fresh local fish will have to spend more for their fish whilst the euro powers that be get exactly what they want,, remembering also that many UK/ Euro caught species are or were caught in UK waters, then sent to thailand for packing/peeling before returning to UK supermarkets,, wonder if they still exist if those practices will be included in the red carding too? Just another thought, I wonder if the above process re packing/peeling would have involved slave labour too ?

Edited July 27, 2015 by jonnyscot

[englishoak]

Gabriel Mato of Spain.. Possibly Europe's largest fishing fleet for size and catch.. Heavily subsidised!

http://www.icij.org/project/looting-seas-ii/nearly-eu6-billion-subsidies-fuel-spains-ravenous-fleet

Or taking illegal catches.. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.html

And has been goin on for many years, as I said earlier either in this topic or the other fishing related one, the euro's aren't squeaky clean, illegal fishing still goes on there because it is very difficult to properly control, they're monitoring fish factory records , increased mesh sizes, put escape windows in nets, to help reduce overfishing and allow young fish to escape, but only works properly if every country complies,, certainly too much to expect thailand to do in 6 months

Its had years and enough warnings. They will never be ready until made to be... if they dont like it then go sell to another market no problem.

I'm glad your comment confirms it's not down to prayuth who I'd say is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances, being left with so many issues to fix, yes he has the option to delegate a suitably experienced minister to implement change which I'm sure he will eventually do after properly investigating how to best fix the problem,

sure, they can also explore other markets to sell to but I'd guess some of the end customers in Europe who can't afford to buy or source fresh local fish will have to spend more for their fish whilst the euro powers that be get exactly what they want,, remembering also that many UK/ Euro caught species are or were caught in UK waters, then sent to thailand for packing/peeling before returning to UK supermarkets,, wonder if they still exist if those practices will be included in the red carding too? Just another thought, I wonder if the above process re packing/peeling would have involved slave labour too ?

Oh it is down to Prayuth, he wanted it hes got it.

Your wrong the EU will not miss it and it isnt an issue for packing on shore its the fishing, No doubt there are inspectors for the packing and yes the EU will pull that too if need be regardless of the consequences.

Its also right to, why do you prefer its left to continue for one moment longer then absolutely necessary ? please tell me your not an apologist for these scum.

[jonnyscot]

quote name="englishoak"Its had years and enough warnings. They will never be ready until made to be... if they dont like it then go sell to another market no problem.

I'm glad your comment confirms it's not down to prayuth who I'd say is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances, being left with so many issues to fix, yes he has the option to delegate a suitably experienced minister to implement change which I'm sure he will eventually do after properly investigating how to best fix the problem,

sure, they can also explore other markets to sell to but I'd guess some of the end customers in Europe who can't afford to buy or source fresh local fish will have to spend more for their fish whilst the euro powers that be get exactly what they want,, remembering also that many UK/ Euro caught species are or were caught in UK waters, then sent to thailand for packing/peeling before returning to UK supermarkets,, wonder if they still exist if those practices will be included in the red carding too? Just another thought, I wonder if the above process re packing/peeling would have involved slave labour too ?

Sorry trying to edit the post to shorten it and buggered it up

Edited July 27, 2015 by jonnyscot

[jonnyscot]

Gabriel Mato of Spain.. Possibly Europe's largest fishing fleet for size and catch.. Heavily subsidised!

http://www.icij.org/project/looting-seas-ii/nearly-eu6-billion-subsidies-fuel-spains-ravenous-fleet

Or taking illegal catches.. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.html

And has been goin on for many years, as I said earlier either in this topic or the other fishing related one, the euro's aren't squeaky clean, illegal fishing still goes on there because it is very difficult to properly control, they're monitoring fish factory records , increased mesh sizes, put escape windows in nets, to help reduce overfishing and allow young fish to escape, but only works properly if every country complies,, certainly too much to expect thailand to do in 6 months

Its had years and enough warnings. They will never be ready until made to be... if they dont like it then go sell to another market no problem.

I'm glad your comment confirms it's not down to prayuth who I'd say is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances, being left with so many issues to fix, yes he has the option to delegate a suitably experienced minister to implement change which I'm sure he will eventually do after properly investigating how to best fix the problem,

sure, they can also explore other markets to sell to but I'd guess some of the end customers in Europe who can't afford to buy or source fresh local fish will have to spend more for their fish whilst the euro powers that be get exactly what they want,, remembering also that many UK/ Euro caught species are or were caught in UK waters, then sent to thailand for packing/peeling before returning to UK supermarkets,, wonder if they still exist if those practices will be included in the red carding too? Just another thought, I wonder if the above process re packing/peeling would have involved slave labour too ?

Oh it is down to Prayuth, he wanted it hes got it.

Your wrong the EU will not miss it and it isnt an issue for packing on shore its the fishing, No doubt there are inspectors for the packing and yes the EU will pull that too if need be regardless of the consequences.

Its also right to, why do you prefer its left to continue for one moment longer then absolutely necessary ? please tell me your not an apologist for these scum.

Not an apologist mate, I've experienced 16 years working as a fisherman, followed by a further 8 or 9 years working in manufacture and design of the fishing gear used to catch the fish, worked closely with fishery research in manufacturing nets for them too, so I have some experience of the issues involved and I've also experienced/suffered incorrect decisions from pen pushers that thought they knew better, so regardless of whether it continues for one moment longer, I'd suggest it's more important to get things done and implemented correctly

[spidermike007]

Gabriel Mato, from the European Parliament's committee on fisheries, said he would support banning the import of Thai fishery products, if the Kingdom failed to curb illegal fishing and abandon the use of slave labour.

This stirred Prayut to hit back, saying his government had taken more action than many other countries.

"Today we are sincere about addressing the problem that many countries have not tried to solve. Why haven't they been [punished]?" he asked.

Prayut can keep pointing an accusing finger at others but he can't get around the fact that, at the end of the day, this is a Thai problem.

This kind of response, from a leader, is not constructive. It is churlish, and childish. And completely lacking in elegance or diplomacy. Instead, he should be focusing on the issues. And the real issue here is slavery and human trafficking, and the suffering connected to both of those areas. I see they are making some progress with the license checks. It is amazing how many of these boats are not licensed. But, what about the slavery aspects of this tragedy? How many of these boat captains are being arrested, and brought up on human trafficking and slave trading charges? How many are being sentenced to life in prison for destroying lives? This is perhaps one of the most heinous crimes a person can commit. It just has no place in the 21st century. This leader should be embarrassed, and humiliated that this kind of action is happening on his watch, and should be doing everything in his power to eradicate this horrific practice. Is he serious about this? Is he really pursuing the culprits? If so, will they be brought to justice? Will he be able to locate a strong and impartial judge to try these horrible men, who profit from such terrible human suffering, inflict massive pain on these poor Burmese, throw them overboard, beat them, murder, them, and enslave them, without an ounce of compassion in their sorry bodies, minds, corrupt souls, and black hearts?

[Nobb]

Prayup has taken more actions then any other country is because before him no one enforced the law. In any other country these uneducated to the law would have there ship confenscated and receive a big fine. Not thai rules but world rules. PM could make fisherman happy or obey the laws of the seas and sell there fish only to Thailand! Maybe to much preasure on PM because he is weakening all all fronts.

[englishoak]

Gabriel Mato of Spain.. Possibly Europe's largest fishing fleet for size and catch.. Heavily subsidised!

http://www.icij.org/project/looting-seas-ii/nearly-eu6-billion-subsidies-fuel-spains-ravenous-fleet

Or taking illegal catches.. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/spanish-fish-barons-admit-taking-illegal-catches-in-uk-waters-7964246.html

And has been goin on for many years, as I said earlier either in this topic or the other fishing related one, the euro's aren't squeaky clean, illegal fishing still goes on there because it is very difficult to properly control, they're monitoring fish factory records , increased mesh sizes, put escape windows in nets, to help reduce overfishing and allow young fish to escape, but only works properly if every country complies,, certainly too much to expect thailand to do in 6 months

Its had years and enough warnings. They will never be ready until made to be... if they dont like it then go sell to another market no problem.

I'm glad your comment confirms it's not down to prayuth who I'd say is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances, being left with so many issues to fix, yes he has the option to delegate a suitably experienced minister to implement change which I'm sure he will eventually do after properly investigating how to best fix the problem,

sure, they can also explore other markets to sell to but I'd guess some of the end customers in Europe who can't afford to buy or source fresh local fish will have to spend more for their fish whilst the euro powers that be get exactly what they want,, remembering also that many UK/ Euro caught species are or were caught in UK waters, then sent to thailand for packing/peeling before returning to UK supermarkets,, wonder if they still exist if those practices will be included in the red carding too? Just another thought, I wonder if the above process re packing/peeling would have involved slave labour too ?

Oh it is down to Prayuth, he wanted it hes got it.

Your wrong the EU will not miss it and it isnt an issue for packing on shore its the fishing, No doubt there are inspectors for the packing and yes the EU will pull that too if need be regardless of the consequences.

Its also right to, why do you prefer its left to continue for one moment longer then absolutely necessary ? please tell me your not an apologist for these scum.

Not an apologist mate, I've experienced 16 years working as a fisherman, followed by a further 8 or 9 years working in manufacture and design of the fishing gear used to catch the fish, worked closely with fishery research in manufacturing nets for them too, so I have some experience of the issues involved and I've also experienced/suffered incorrect decisions from pen pushers that thought they knew better, so regardless of whether it continues for one moment longer, I'd suggest it's more important to get things done and implemented correctly

You need to realise the fishing fleet have all been able to register and follow any rules, they have been there to follow, thousands have done so without an issue ... the rest have ignored things and done as they wish.

You might be a fisherman but you are and have not been a thai one.... if you were youd possibly be at the bottom of the ocean... the this fishing fleet is only interested in the cash not the rules..not the conditions and not for the fish...

Thailand has been willfully using nets that dragnet everything and they have been asked and warned for years...they dont give a Fig for anything or anyone.

And all you can do is sit there talking about pen pushing... we are talking about human lives and continued destruction of the sea and its fish stocks... why should the good fisherman have to even compete with this scum ?

Mind you even they dont care and only did it because they were made to, no one volunteered to act on their own or with common sense.

They have had the rules and licence there all the time im afraid, some just dont want the cost of going legal.

Hope it destroys the Thai fishing industry, the good business will survive the rest wont... and yknow what ? they dont deserve anything else...

[jonnyscot]

With your last response it's obvious you know little or are somehow misinformed about fishermen, the pressures on them, how they fish and the methods used in fishing, including conservation measures,,

there is and will always be many fishermen who will try to take as much from the sea as they possibly can, I count myself as one of those in days past and have many boatowner/fisher mates who had this mindset too in the not too distant past, this happens in Europe as well as here in thailand, I remember the days we were told by the pen pushers oh sorry I mean decision makers, we had to throw back the young fish caught in the nets, utter stupidity,, if they were smart enough to know what happens to young fish trawled up in the nets, we helped devise smarter better methods that were implemented to minimise catching smaller fish in the nets, but by this time the stocks were already severely depleted.

so with that point I'll leave you in your own little world of assumptions, since neither you nor I are unlikely to make any difference in this instance

[Down the rabbit hole]

Prayup has taken more actions then any other country is because before him no one enforced the law. In any other country these uneducated to the law would have there ship confenscated and receive a big fine. Not thai rules but world rules. PM could make fisherman happy or obey the laws of the seas and sell there fish only to Thailand! Maybe to much preasure on PM because he is weakening all all fronts.

This nonsense is said often "Prayuth has done so much".

What hs Prayuth done? Cleared a few beach umbrellas, relocated a few street traders, alienated everyone he comes into contact with except soldiers (and you don't get to be a Thai soldier because you're smart) suppress human rights, commit treason and propagandise the Thai people (who are not generally smart enough to understand what he's doing but who are gradually waking up to the {Payuth unending nightmare).

What else has he done? The square root of sod all. He bleats a bit though, he's pretty good at wailing and gnashing his teeth.

Prayuth is a liability and I fully expect he'll get thrown under a bus by year-end.

And now USA has kept Thailand on tier 3 of the TIP table. Reaction? Waaaa, other countries, waah never mind, waah not important, waah. For consumption of Thais of course. He tells the US Thailand will have to try harder (through his mouthpiece Panitan). One face pointiong to Thailand,, a completely different face pointing to other countries.

Tosser.

Thais are beginning to realise they're not quite as special as they've been told all these years. Not special at all in fact, troublesome, lawless, ignorant and a general 24 carat pain in the ass.

So much for all countries 'understanding Thailand' and 'agreeing with what Prayuth has been forced to do'.

Thaksin must be laughing his ass off.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[englishoak]

With your last response it's obvious you know little or are somehow misinformed about fishermen, the pressures on them, how they fish and the methods used in fishing, including conservation measures,,

there is and will always be many fishermen who will try to take as much from the sea as they possibly can, I count myself as one of those in days past and have many boatowner/fisher mates who had this mindset too in the not too distant past, this happens in Europe as well as here in thailand, I remember the days we were told by the pen pushers oh sorry I mean decision makers, we had to throw back the young fish caught in the nets, utter stupidity,, if they were smart enough to know what happens to young fish trawled up in the nets, we helped devise smarter better methods that were implemented to minimise catching smaller fish in the nets, but by this time the stocks were already severely depleted.

so with that point I'll leave you in your own little world of assumptions, since neither you nor I are unlikely to make any difference in this instance

Kinda highlights the stupidity and stubbornness of fishermen towards protecting their own jobs then dosnt it ? It took pen pushers to kick the industry and it probably survives only because it was forced.

Only then did the industry work towards a better solution. Shouldnt it have been industry leading not following ? just saying.

Thailand has had a decade or more and it wants the markets it sells to so it can either tow the proverbial line or sell to elsewhere. Its not like they dont have a choice they just want max profits.

[Down the rabbit hole]

Prayup has taken more actions then any other country is because before him no one enforced the law. In any other country these uneducated to the law would have there ship confenscated and receive a big fine. Not thai rules but world rules. PM could make fisherman happy or obey the laws of the seas and sell there fish only to Thailand! Maybe to much preasure on PM because he is weakening all all fronts.

Indeed he is weakening. Still, if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. I bet he's really glad he followed orders to commit treason...

5 gets you 10 he's under a bus by the end of the year, Thailand's economy is in the toilet, Thais just can't afford this guy and his mates.

[jonnyscot]

With your last response it's obvious you know little or are somehow misinformed about fishermen, the pressures on them, how they fish and the methods used in fishing, including conservation measures,,

there is and will always be many fishermen who will try to take as much from the sea as they possibly can, I count myself as one of those in days past and have many boatowner/fisher mates who had this mindset too in the not too distant past, this happens in Europe as well as here in thailand, I remember the days we were told by the pen pushers oh sorry I mean decision makers, we had to throw back the young fish caught in the nets, utter stupidity,, if they were smart enough to know what happens to young fish trawled up in the nets, we helped devise smarter better methods that were implemented to minimise catching smaller fish in the nets, but by this time the stocks were already severely depleted.

so with that point I'll leave you in your own little world of assumptions, since neither you nor I are unlikely to make any difference in this instance

Kinda highlights the stupidity and stubbornness of fishermen towards protecting their own jobs then dosnt it ? It took pen pushers to kick the industry and it probably survives only because it was forced.

Only then did the industry work towards a better solution. Shouldnt it have been industry leading not following ? just saying.

Thailand has had a decade or more and it wants the markets it sells to so it can either tow the proverbial line or sell to elsewhere. Its not like they dont have a choice they just want max profits.

Gotta reply to you to say well done, your first two paragraphs I'd say are pretty close to the mark.

after a number of incorrect decisions by the powers that be, it was finally forced upon the experts (the fishermen) to come up with workable measures, but not without the serial offenders continuing to flout regulations in place, as said this will happen everywhere.

I don't think thailand can adapt in such a short time to successfully implement all the changes required to both make a sufficient difference to fish stocks and at the same time sustain a successful fishing industry, I think it will come over time hopefully by regulating the fishing gear used and by reducing the fleet, but that cannot all be done instantly.

the Brits phased out older fishing vessels by scrapping them over a number of years with the owners receiving compensation, (this was one decent decision the powers did make ), something like that may be workable in thailand, but the trouble is the guys that need the compensation (the workers who lose their jobs) most likely won't get a baht,

Some new jobs could be created by breaking up the older vessels and recycling engines/parts etc etc,

Edited July 27, 2015 by jonnyscot