A Visit from Immigration - Address Reporting

[Liquorice]

Today a mate of mine living in Amant had a surprise visit from Immigration.

He has just returned back from a 5 week visit to the UK on July 21st.

The visit was apparently prompted because Immigration have no record of him doing 90 day reports since he first entered Thailand in Oct 2014. That is correct because he actually crosses the border every 90 days at Savannakhet, because Amnat refused to do his 90 day reports at their office after getting a Non Imm O, Extension and Multi entry permit at Bangkok when he first arrived.

Anyway, after checking his passport they were quite happy that everything was in order, except for notifying Immigration of returning to his address after leaving the Country. In other words a TM30 form.

According to their instructions if he leaves the Country he must notify Immigration on each return by using a TM6 and a TM30.

If he leaves the province for more than 24 hours he must notify Immigration using a TM28 and a TM30, both in the province he temporarily stays for longer than 24 hours and then again on returning to his own residence.

They took photographs of the house, of him and his wife and of them with the Immigration officers.

They stated they will return on Sunday again, although for what purpose they didn't make clear.

Meanwhile he and his wife are going to Amnat on Thursday with a TM30.

I know their have been a few debates about this issue on TV recently, but that's the first verbal interpretation of the laws on address reporting I've heard coming straight from the mouth of Immigration.

If this is enforced across all the offices, some are going to find it a real pain in the butt.

Last year Amnat advised me a TM28 was only required when moving to a new permanent residence, not for say a 2 week stay in Bangkok. When I phoned them to check what my friend had been advised, they confirmed all addresses where an alien stays for more than 24 hours must be reported to the relevant Immigration office, as per orders from the Director General.

[nidieunimaitre]

QUOTE:

I know their have been a few debates about this issue on TV recently, but that's the first verbal interpretation of the laws on address reporting I've heard coming straight from the mouth of Immigration.

CORRECTION:

...... from the mouth of 1 of the thousands of Immigration people.

Of course, for your friend this is a big nuisance, probably he is expected to organize a "tea" party next sunday.

The rest of us can only hope that there will not be a similar knock on our doors.

[Liquorice]

CORRECTION:

...... from the mouth of 1 of the thousands of Immigration people.

There were 3 of them actually, 4 if you include the officer I spoke to................but all from the same office.

[gk10002000]

Sounds like they got a day out of the office. Still kind of interesting that they have some record of comings and goings or lack of.

[Jessi]

Thanks for posting Faz.

Its insane! I travel a lot around Thailand and this means if I go for a trip & spend 2 days in a

few different provinces I must report & fill in forms in each Province.

Its similar to being under house arrest.

[mxyzptlk]

I think this will depend on your local immigration office....as we all know each office has it's own "interpretation" of the "rules"

[Liquorice]

The actual law quotes:

1. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.
2. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.
3. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

So it doesn't say you have to find another Immigration office, just report to the local Police station within the new area.

I wonder how many Police stations will be up to scratch with this requirement.

It's nothing new, just not enforced in the past.

According to the interpretation I received;

Section 1 is a general notice to remain at the residence as indicated, otherwise comply with either section 2 or 3.

Section 2 is the procedure to follow for a permanent change in residency. (Moving house).

Section 3 is the procedure to follow for a temporary change in residency. (Travelling/Visiting).

[Liquorice]

I think this will depend on your local immigration office....as we all know each office has it's own "interpretation" of the "rules"

I agree, but there have been recent reports of two or three offices enforcing this requirement.

Amnat are now enforcing it, whereas last year they didn't, so this directive is spreading slowly.

The point is, if your visiting another province, how will you know if the Immigration office within that province is applying the requirement or not, regardless of what your normal office is doing?

[mxyzptlk]

Maybe it's only an issue for people like your mate, who has an extension of stay and lives in the province but has not been doing 90 day reports to his local office, whereas the rest of us on extensions are doing regular 90 day reports to confirm our address. Just a thought....

[ubonjoe]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

[Jessi]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

they confirmed all addresses where an alien stays for more than 24 hours must be reported to the relevant Immigration office, as per orders from the Director General. (From FAZ quote)

Playing around I don't think so.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jessi

[ubonjoe]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

they confirmed all addresses where an alien stays for more than 24 hours must be reported to the relevant Immigration office, as per orders from the Director General. (From FAZ quote)

Playing around I don't think so.

I say that it is rubbish about it being a national directive. The officer was just using that as an excuse when questioned about it.

That office is already know for being a rogue office. Wanting medical certificates for an extension based upon retirement. Not allowing a person to do 90 day reports after formally changing his address just because they don't like the way his extension was done in Bangkok.

[Jessi]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

they confirmed all addresses where an alien stays for more than 24 hours must be reported to the relevant Immigration office, as per orders from the Director General. (From FAZ quote)

Playing around I don't think so.

I say that it is rubbish about it being a national directive. The officer was just using that as an excuse when questioned about it.

That office is already know for being a rogue office. Wanting medical certificates for an extension based upon retirement. Not allowing a person to do 90 day reports after formally changing his address just because they don't like the way his extension was done in Bangkok.

WE shall have to wait & see because TiT anything is possible.

[KhunBENQ]

Thanks for posting Faz.

Its insane! I travel a lot around Thailand and this means if I go for a trip & spend 2 days in a

few different provinces I must report & fill in forms in each Province.

Its similar to being under house arrest.

It would indeed be insane.

I live on retirement for more than four years in Khon Kaen at the same place (have a yellow book).

I travel frequently within the country and quite sure that the hotels report my stay to immigration (as is their obligation).

I never cared about any renewal of address registration etc.

Fortunately I was never bothered by immigration in Khon Kaen.

[JaseTheBass]

1. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official.

I've yet to find a competent official in 15 years of living here.

[NickJ]

I would bet most Ex-Pats living here have violated at least one law without ever even knowing it. Its part of the double sided sword that lives above all of us. What it boils down to is they can deport us pretty much whenever they want. Not that they will. But the power is theres. Somtimes they flex a little muscle.

[Liquorice]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

they confirmed all addresses where an alien stays for more than 24 hours must be reported to the relevant Immigration office, as per orders from the Director General. (From FAZ quote)

Playing around I don't think so.

I say that it is rubbish about it being a national directive. The officer was just using that as an excuse when questioned about it.

That office is already know for being a rogue office. Wanting medical certificates for an extension based upon retirement. Not allowing a person to do 90 day reports after formally changing his address just because they don't like the way his extension was done in Bangkok.

I wouldn't go as far as saying Amnat are a rouge office Joe.

They certainly go by the book, but are very friendly and helpful.

They are also one of the very few offices that date a 90 day report from expiry of the old one and not from the date of application,

again as per the guidance notes for 90 day reporting on Immigration website, so that's a plus.

Obtaining a medical for the extensions takes ten minutes and costs 30 baht.....no big deal.

Again when it comes to my mates 90 day reports at Amnat, yes they accepted the change of address form and recorded it, but they didn't like the way his extension was issued so wanted nothing to do with it.

His Non Imm O was issued on one day and his extension was issued the very next day (where's the 60 day proof of funds in a Thai bank). It was handled by Siam Legal, he didn't go near an Immigration office and it cost him 48,000 baht.

Can you seriously tell me that was issued according to the rules (albeit a genuine extension stamp) and that in order for the complete process from entry exempt to extension based on retirement in two days, some tea money didn't exchange hands.

I say hats of to Amnat in this particular situation, they know it was issued under false pretences and they don't want to get involved in any corrupt dealings. Does that make them a rogue office?

My mates not had to good a experience with Immigration since entering Thailand, but Amnat told him once he does his next extension at their office in January, then he can report their as normal.

At the end of the day he accepts he was an idiot. I told him to get a 90 day Non Imm O from Savannakhet after entering on a Visa exempt, then apply at Amnat for his extension, but he suckered into the all in one service, which hasn't turned out to well for him.

Luckily he's only 30 minutes from Savannakhet to do his crossings.

And just to confirm, the directive from the Director General, is to follow the law as laid down in sections 37 and 38 of the Immigration Act for address reporting and they gave me their interpretative of how it applies, only when I asked the question.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Faz

[thequietman]

Hi,

this happened to me also. Imm came to the house and were spouting about the 'rules' about this and that, when I leave the province I must send the form, when I come back i need to send the form, blah, blah, blah and so on. All the time fishing for tea money. So............... I printed the 2 forms and made 50 copies of each, bought 100 envelopes, 300 baht of stamps and every time I left the province, I would find a post box and post the forms. I did it for nearly the full 100 envelopes when my wife got a phone call telling us to stop sending the forms as it was creating too much paper work for them.

Problem solved. Play them at their own game. Similarly when I went into the police station in that province I was in, they had no idea what we were talking about when we came to notify them. It was time consuming but worth it just to show the wife the futility and nonsense about the 'rules."

[Tomtomtom69]

The officer was just quoting what the immigration act says for address reporting. I think he knows full well that it is not enforceable in this day and age. Expecting every tourist to make a report every time they go to a different province is just not going to happen. As far as reporting to the police station I can assure you that they would just send you away at the greatest majority of them.

The thing of doing a TM30 every time you re-enter the country is a matter of interpretation as said. Again not enforceable in most cases.

None of the above is a directive from a higher authority to start enforcing it. Just a local office playing around.

Re-doing a TM30 every time one goes out of the country and comes back would be crazy, especially as most of us will continue living at the same residence upon returning. In the past, the only time my presence was ever recorded (presumably at least) was when I supplied a copy of my passport for an apartment lease. In the meantime, I would have left and re-entered the country half a dozen or more times during this lease period, each time indicating this same address on my inbound arrival form. I assumed that once I was registered at that address, I was done, especially since during the aforementioned period I never moved anywhere else. Nothing ever happened but I can't see the point of re-registering the same address every time one travels, as a lot of us do for business and other purposes. You already supply your address on the inbound arrival form, that should be enough. And while I was on visa exemptions or tourist visas back then, I am now on a non-B, which, like other long-term visas allows multiple travel or if it didn't, you would simply purchase a re-entry permit. Thus I can't see why one would re-register the same address used in conjunction with the same visa. Even if returning on a different visa (or visa exemption) it still wouldn't make sense.

[Tomtomtom69]

Hi,

this happened to me also. Imm came to the house and were spouting about the 'rules' about this and that, when I leave the province I must send the form, when I come back i need to send the form, blah, blah, blah and so on. All the time fishing for tea money. So............... I printed the 2 forms and made 50 copies of each, bought 100 envelopes, 300 baht of stamps and every time I left the province, I would find a post box and post the forms. I did it for nearly the full 100 envelopes when my wife got a phone call telling us to stop sending the forms as it was creating too much paper work for them.

Problem solved. Play them at their own game. Similarly when I went into the police station in that province I was in, they had no idea what we were talking about when we came to notify them. It was time consuming but worth it just to show the wife the futility and nonsense about the 'rules."

Probably what I would have done in similar circumstances. But aside from the past when I used to rent apartments in various parts of Bangkok and supplied a passport copy as part of the lease, at my current residence living in Bangkok at my fiancee's house I have never even registered my address here officially at all. So unless immigration starts looking at addresses provided on the incoming passenger card more closely and doing random inspections, I doubt they would ever come to see me. I've been here at this residence for roughly 3 years on and off and perhaps one of the reasons why people are getting caught out is by doing the 90-day reports. As I have generally only been on non-B multi entry visas (or previously, tourist visas), I've never had to do a 90-day report. I did once have a non-B and extension of stay, but my job at that time ended before I needed to do my first 90-day report. So obviously I didn't.

[FlorC]

Hey , in NAN , you have to sign a paper stating that you understand and will aply those rules , going to different provinces ...the 24 h from your address, you have to notify police or immigration where you stay . They make sure you understand , that they can revoke your retirement extention .

If you go to another province , the hotel will notify , so it will be in the computer . If Nan checks , and you haven't reported it , well I see them doing it. Retirement extention is like being on parole.

[gk10002000]

The actual law quotes:

1. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.
2. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.
3. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

So it doesn't say you have to find another Immigration office, just report to the local Police station within the new area.

I wonder how many Police stations will be up to scratch with this requirement.

It's nothing new, just not enforced in the past.

According to the interpretation I received;

Section 1 is a general notice to remain at the residence as indicated, otherwise comply with either section 2 or 3.

Section 2 is the procedure to follow for a permanent change in residency. (Moving house).

Section 3 is the procedure to follow for a temporary change in residency. (Travelling/Visiting).

As written (3) says that if one travels away for longer than 24 hours, you must notify. That is just plain crazy. Every weekend to Bangkok, or to any place away from your residence would require notifying somebody. Traveling is NOT a change, temporary or otherwise of your residency. Residency should mean where you permanently reside, not where you are staying for a few days or weeks while away from your home

[mommysboy]

This tendency for one or two officials to act in an overbearing fashion has been a bit of a trend as of late. As you say, a business trip or holiday is exactly what the terms imply, not a change of residence. Somewhat worrying if you happen to be the victim.

[laislica]

This tendency for one or two officials to act in an overbearing fashion has been a bit of a trend as of late. As you say, a business trip or holiday is exactly what the terms imply, not a change of residence. Somewhat worrying if you happen to be the victim.

Being married and residing at my wife's house.

I/we report to our local Imm Office.

We live in Changwat Samut Sakhon and there are not so many Farang here.

We got to know our Imm Officers, showed them photos of our house, temples visited, holidays in other provinces and other countries etc. Bless the iPad LOL

Oh yes, my wife took along cakes and snacks for them.

My wife had no idea about the TM30 requirement and thought it was not required since we were married.

We discussed the TM30 requirement and they filled other forms and agreed that my wife can simply phone their office whenever we return from our foreign travels. We spend roughly half the year in Spain and the rest in Thailand.

Perhaps not being afraid of Imm Officers and trying to get to know them (if they have the time and are not overwhelmed with work) might help?

Every office seems to be different so good luck to all.

Maybe we just got lucky?

[Liquorice]

As written (3) says that if one travels away for longer than 24 hours, you must notify. That is just plain crazy. Every weekend to Bangkok, or to any place away from your residence would require notifying somebody. Traveling is NOT a change, temporary or otherwise of your residency. Residency should mean where you permanently reside, not where you are staying for a few days or weeks while away from your home

If you travel and stay elsewhere, then your not staying at the address last notified to Immigration, so it is a change in address.

Who is responsible for what, depends on where and who you stay with.

How can you permanently reside anywhere when you only have temporary permission to stay in Thailand.

Take away the temporary permission to stay and you've got nothing.

Only PR status is the exception.

[Mosha]

As I posted in another thread. Ranong are doing monthly visits.