Using an Expired Passport as Collateral (Motorbike Rentals etc) - Breaking a Law?

[fitfalang]

Hi,

I just got me a new passport and was just about to throw the old one away, until I thought that it could be useful in Thailand when your passport is asked as collateral. I'm thinking e.g. motorbike rental shops that require your passport, as there are so many occasions where scams have been reported with "damage" that has appeared and then they ask you for 5 x the real repair price. People always say "never give your passport to motorbike rental shops, just give a copy" but so far this has only worked one single time for me for a 100cc scooter.. Most of the time they want the real one.

Instead of giving the new one, I thought I could give the old one so in case there is a problem at least I will have time to negotiate (e.g. if they are holding it and I need it urgently for traveling). However, I don't want to do anything illegal in Thailand and I realise that using an expired passport for anything official must be illegal.

Do you think I would be breaking a law if I used an expired passport at a rental shop?

[lj cm]

I think; that's a very good idea.

[Emster23]

Since you are required by law to have your passport with you at all times (I put mine in zip lock and shove it up me bum when in shower), they legally can't demand your passport. I seem to recall a few months ago this came up, but reasoning with these guys is waste of time, so you idea is great. "You didn't say it had to be my current passport....."

[fey]

In the USA they request the old passport be sent in when getting a new one.

They return the old passport along with the new one, but it has several hole punched through it to make it invalid.

I did use my camera picture of my old passport (which has a different number of course), which is a pretty good high res shot, by mistake on a couple occasions when I did not yet take the pic of my new passport. Probably was similar to giving or using a fake ID, but it would likely depend on who your dealing with. A motorbike rental probably not a big deal, doing it at the border would be more serious.

Edited July 29, 2015 by fey

[BudRight]

Since it is illegal for them to ask for it, illegal for you to give it to them and illegal for them to have it, this is quite okay.

Edited July 29, 2015 by BudRight

[Thongkorn]

I would never trust leaving my passport anywhere, its illegal for a British citizen to do this,

[fitfalang]

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't realise asking for your passport as a deposit was actually illegal! In that case no problem, I will keep it for that purpose.

I've tried to refuse giving it a couple of times, but never worked! And switching to another shop is not easy if you're renting +600cc bikes.

Unlike in the US, where I'm from they just send us the new passport and tell us to cut a corner off the old passport to make it invalid by ourselves.

[NancyL]

Actually if you get a new U.S. passport here in Thailand, they'll insist you keep the old one, because they know you'll need to transfer your visa stamps, etc.

And you should always hang onto your old passports. Incidentally, I don't think it's ever been a requirement in the U.S. to surrender old passports when you get a new one because Hubby has all old passports dating from birth and he's pushing age 70. They make for interesting story-telling, after all.

[Brit_Doggie]

SO GIVE EM A EXPIRED PASSPORT IS LEGAL HUH NOT

[mesquite]

I doubt if they would take an expired passport as it would not have an arrival/departure card in it, but you could try.

That's assuming you let it expire while in your home country. All my old passports have holes in them, put there by the US Consulate when I renewed them in Thailand.

Edited July 29, 2015 by mesquite

[MAJIC]

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't realise asking for your passport as a deposit was actually illegal! In that case no problem, I will keep it for that purpose.

I've tried to refuse giving it a couple of times, but never worked! And switching to another shop is not easy if you're renting +600cc bikes.

Unlike in the US, where I'm from they just send us the new passport and tell us to cut a corner off the old passport to make it invalid by ourselves.

Yes and they cut the corner off UK Passports in the UK before they return them.It's also doubtful the worth of an expired Passport,as the International front page is in English/Thai,so not too difficult to read!

[jacko45k]

In the USA they request the old passport be sent in when getting a new one.

They return the old passport along with the new one, but it has several hole punched through it to make it invalid.

I did use my camera picture of my old passport (which has a different number of course), which is a pretty good high res shot, by mistake on a couple occasions when I did not yet take the pic of my new passport. Probably was similar to giving or using a fake ID, but it would likely depend on who your dealing with. A motorbike rental probably not a big deal, doing it at the border would be more serious.

I don't think the guy is in the USA.

As has been discussed requiring you to leave your passport is not required by law and leaves you in the vulnerable position of not having your passport, and the rental outfit potentially losing it or getting it mixed up with another persons. My experience in Pattaya area is a copy suffices, but I can appreciate the renter preferring more security. I guess people have to take the risk or look elsewhere if the passport is requested. Since it is not obligatory I would have no conscience about handing over an old one.

[LoZth]

If you can get away with your old passport good luck.

When asked for my passport I said I'd left it in the hotel safe.

I have a UK OAP bus pass, it has my picture on it so I told them it is my ID card.

It never failed!

[Hayduke]

Initially you mentioned throwing the old passport away. Even if you concluded you had no use for it, throwing it away might not be the best way to dispose of it.

[bluebluewater]

Give them anything they will accept except your current passport.

Legal and illegal are not strong concepts here in Thailand. I have given them long expired drivers licenses, old student ID's, anything they would accept. They got what they wanted and I could walk away if I needed to.

[realenglish1]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

[gyrosman]

First off most rental shops should take a photo copy as you NOT surrender your country's property. Your passport is the property of your government..

As for using the old one your number and photo are the same as the new one and Thai's can't read English, so, I would.

[PattayaPhom]

Since it is illegal for them to ask for it, illegal for you to give it to them and illegal for them to have it, this is quite okay.

Which law covers asking for security making it illegal, what is the punishment and vice versa what law covers leaving your passport and again what is the punishment. Is it different for holders of different nationalities? I would never leave my passport but rather a deposit. Its quite common for bikes to be stolen and damaged so owners are just covering themselves. Its been debated many times on here and best just to look elsewhere a deposit is acceptable. Still be very interested to know the exact laws and punishments for all

[PattayaPhom]

I would never trust leaving my passport anywhere, its illegal for a British citizen to do this,

A British passport is property of The Crown we all know but which law states it is illegal to leave it anywhere as security. Its common practice to ask for pp befor treatment if the patient isnt carrying cash/cc to cover expenses. Not disputing its advisable but we need distinction between common sense and legality.

[Estrada]

It is not advisable to let your passport, I.D., driving licences or credit cards out of your sight unless you want them copied by criminals.

[dageurreotype]

I think; that's a very good idea.

Dear God, just when I think the bar couldn't possibly be set lower on this forum ..

[Friendly Stranger]

Are you thinking of using an expired passport as collateral?

If so, not wise. I can see that back firing on you, even getting you in trouble with the office that is responsible for issuing these from your home country. Just think about it, it can be misconstrued as knowingly using expired gov't issued property and passing it off as valid.

It sounds as if I'm splitting hairs but I would not do it.

[Emster23]

First off most rental shops should take a photo copy as you NOT surrender your country's property. Your passport is the property of your government..

As for using the old one your number and photo are the same as the new one and Thai's can't read English, so, I would.

Sorry to say US changes number with new passport. I was going to get a bar code tattoo on arm of that number, but since it doesn't migrate... hey, anyone know the Thai page where they state (in Thai and English) that foreigners must have passport at all times? Seems if made photocopies of that and current passport, ought to shut them up. And always fall back of calling BIB to come and have chat with shop (big assumption cops know about that law, I know)

[Laza 45]

..The thing is.. your passport doesn't belong to you.. it belongs to the country issuing it.. as stated above it is not legal to give it to anyone for security...

What I have done is made an ID card by having reduced photocopies (the size of a credit card).. full color.. laminated in plastic.. one side is the front page of my passport with photo.. the reverse is a copy of my visa.. I had it done at my local print shop... Price... 7 Bt.. I have used it a number of times as ID when renting a motorbike.. also I don't carry my passport everywhere.. it got damp and damaged on one occasion so I stopped carrying it... I have been stopped several times at police roadblocks.. I've presented my home made ID card and my Aussie drivers license and they have been happy..

[Sawan Chan 7]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

No country demands a passport on entry from one of it's citizens.

It is not illegal but they will find you if you try to rip them off and probably do something illegal to you.

[p_brownstone]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

No country demands a passport on entry from one of it's citizens.

It is not illegal but they will find you if you try to rip them off and probably do something illegal to you.

Every Country requires some form of I.D. from anyone entering the Country legally, an expired Passport is still I.D. but you can't just stroll up to Immigration U.K. (or wherever) with absolutely no Documentation and declare "I am a citizen, let me in".

Patrick

[tajtom]

What a stupid post LOL... these people cant read son... NO its still ID you pay right so then

Funny

[Sawan Chan 7]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

No country demands a passport on entry from one of it's citizens.

It is not illegal but they will find you if you try to rip them off and probably do something illegal to you.

Every Country requires some form of I.D. from anyone entering the Country legally, an expired Passport is still I.D. but you can't just stroll up to Immigration U.K. (or wherever) with absolutely no Documentation and declare "I am a citizen, let me in".

Patrick

Obviously. A driver's license would be enough.

Are you sure an expired passport is legal ID? I have had situations where I was told it wasn't, or do you mean wen entering the country of your birth?

[PattayaPhom]

I would suggest it is Legal Since Thai Immigration will accept an expired Passport from a Thai entering the Country

So yes if they accept it I suspect its fine

No country demands a passport on entry from one of it's citizens.

It is not illegal but they will find you if you try to rip them off and probably do something illegal to you.

Every Country requires some form of I.D. from anyone entering the Country legally, an expired Passport is still I.D. but you can't just stroll up to Immigration U.K. (or wherever) with absolutely no Documentation and declare "I am a citizen, let me in".

Patrick

Correct, they just go to Calais in swarms and storm the tunnel

[MyFriend You]

SO GIVE EM A EXPIRED PASSPORT IS LEGAL HUH NOT

Why Not?? Its illegal for them to hold your valid passport..........please enlighten us "Oh master of the Upper Case Letters"............