Legal Status of these so called digital nomad?

[daoyai]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

v

!00%..... as 7% of all purchases is VAT tax and even more on booze 400% on wine so yea we pay our share.

[dru2]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than, perhaps, youth?

And for your information I am not a retiree, and I don't mind paying Thai taxes for street lighting, road maintenance and so on - I actually regard it as a civic duty. But then I'm from poor old, "socialist" northern Europe, not from the uber-capitalist USA.

Edited July 31, 2015 by dru2

[SoiBiker]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than, perhaps, youth?

And for your information I am not a retiree, and I don't mind paying Thai taxes for street lighting, road maintenance and so on - I actually regard it as a civic duty. But then I'm from poor old, "socialist" northern Europe, not from the uber-capitalist USA.

Youth isn't enough?

[seancbk]

Why are so many convinced they have detailed knowledge of the lifestyle of these nomads (Mama noodles, 'grindhouses' etc as repeated ad nauseam whenever the subject comes up)?

Have you ever met anyone that fits this stereotype, or is it just an assumption?

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than youth?

I thought both WinnieTheKwai and SoiBiker's comments were spot on.

Every time the topic of digital nomads comes up, people start moaning about them. It's either "they don't pay tax" or "they are working illegally", or "they are making no money and are just low lifes".....

Why does it matter to anyone what or how someone else lives their life? Who cares if they pay tax? How do you know what the make?

There is a lot of jealousy I suspect because these clever people (young and old) have the skills to make money whilst working to their own schedule, from where they choose.

[dru2]

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than youth?

I thought both WinnieTheKwai and SoiBiker's comments were spot on.

Every time the topic of digital nomads comes up, people start moaning about them. It's either "they don't pay tax" or "they are working illegally", or "they are making no money and are just low lifes".....

Why does it matter to anyone what or how someone else lives their life? Who cares if they pay tax? How do you know what the make?

There is a lot of jealousy I suspect because these clever people (young and old) have the skills to make money whilst working to their own schedule, from where they choose.

Well thank you very much, Sean, that makes me a clever old(ish) person!

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

Edited July 31, 2015 by dru2

[SoiBiker]

There's a Thai law against sharing office space?

[dru2]

If it involves illegal working. For heaven's sake, do it at home and keep quiet about it - how hard can it be?

[SoiBiker]

So you don't mind people breaking the law as long as they're discreet about it?

[daoyai]

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than youth?

I thought both WinnieTheKwai and SoiBiker's comments were spot on.

Every time the topic of digital nomads comes up, people start moaning about them. It's either "they don't pay tax" or "they are working illegally", or "they are making no money and are just low lifes".....

Why does it matter to anyone what or how someone else lives their life? Who cares if they pay tax? How do you know what the make?

There is a lot of jealousy I suspect because these clever people (young and old) have the skills to make money whilst working to their own schedule, from where they choose.

Well thank you very much, Sean, that makes me a clever old(ish) person!

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

That is a funny reason, as if your neighbors and society in general (?) even care what you or other foreigners do for money. Many local people I talk to don't even know there are restrictions on emploment of foreigners as it has no direct affect on them. I know your type so kind of understand.

[dru2]

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than youth?

I thought both WinnieTheKwai and SoiBiker's comments were spot on.

Every time the topic of digital nomads comes up, people start moaning about them. It's either "they don't pay tax" or "they are working illegally", or "they are making no money and are just low lifes".....

Why does it matter to anyone what or how someone else lives their life? Who cares if they pay tax? How do you know what the make?

There is a lot of jealousy I suspect because these clever people (young and old) have the skills to make money whilst working to their own schedule, from where they choose.

Well thank you very much, Sean, that makes me a clever old(ish) person!

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

That is a funny reason, as if your neighbors and society in general (?) even care what you or other foreigners do for money. Many local people I talk to don't even know there are restrictions on emploment of foreigners as it has no direct affect on them. I know your type so kind of understand.

Trust me - they do care, from civil servants, doctors and teachers to ordinary villagers and tuk tuk drivers.

They all know the difference between Westerners - and foreigners in general - who respect Thai laws, customs and religion, and those who do not. They can easily differentiate between those who dress improperly - shirtless in the centre of Chiang Mai - and those who dress politely. They respect foreigners who learn to speak Thai, and still more those who can read and write.

This is Thailand. Fit in to Thai society, emulating what is best and eschewing corruption - like failing to pay taxes, working without a work permit and so on at the lower end of the scale - and you may very well succeed and prosper here.

[SoiBiker]

Why are you equating people who work online with dressing improperly and not bothering to learn Thai?

Are we back to the Mama noodle cliche again?

[dru2]

Why are you equating people who work online with dressing improperly and not bothering to learn Thai?

Are we back to the Mama noodle cliche again?

Poor old Soi Biker - clearly you will never fit in.

[SoiBiker]

Why are you equating people who work online with dressing improperly and not bothering to learn Thai?

Are we back to the Mama noodle cliche again?

Poor old Soi Biker - clearly you will never fit in.

Why the personal attack?

Can't you discuss things like a grownup?

So much for maturity...

[TheRascal]

When I've seen these things advertised it's when a company has been setup specifically to employ these people. The company is paid from overseas by an individual or company, the minimum advertised is usually 100,000 baht. They then take 30% for their management fee, taxes and office space expenses and in exchange they legally provide employment and give the person the documentation needed for a visa and work permit.

It's only legal until someone with more influence decides it's not. I had a digital nomad blacklisted for three years for failing to deliver on a contract. I am the legal owner of a company.

That's a bit different though, if you own a company here and someone has taken on work from your company and is getting paid in Thailand that's no longer a grey area, they are breaking the law.

Just how are they contributing to the local economy? By drinking coffee?

I'd guess they are contributing to the local economy in the same way that a tourist would but on a more long term basis. Renting a condo which is likely owned by a Thai, eating out in restaurants, paying for gym memberships.

It seems some people here seem to have a complete misunderstanding what online workers do. I too struggle to believe that most bloggers make much money, same with finding local stuff and selling it on eBay - but do you really think that's what most people are doing. I'd guess those are the kind of things people turn to when they get bored of teaching and have little other options.

I've met design and programming contractors, animators, affiliate marketers, search engine optimisers, videographers, people who remotely manage ecommerce sites and loads of other random stuff, most of whom are good at what they do but they want more freedom than being tied to a company.

The issue here is how bent out of shape people get about other people's lifestyle choices. Just concentrate on your own life and ignore people who just aren't disturbing you - in some instances it really does smack of jealousy, that these young bucks haven't paid their dues with a life of hard work before they moved here.

Maybe they are breaking the law but so is anyone who drives after too many drinks, hires a prostitute, drinks in a bar after legal closing time, broke a curfew when one is in place, drives too fast etc etc. Stop getting bent out of shape if other people do things that don't affect your life!

[ericthai]

At the end of the day, nothing can be proven, as being on a computer, is what it is. Unless, ppl are silly enough to say they make money, as it would be either misconstrued or not bothered with, but why bring it to anyone's attention. I used to day trade in Bkk, nothing wrong investing from my acct back home to support myself. No jobs taken & no taxation concerns.

true. but if an immigration officer has it out for you he can get you for just sending an email. The ministry of labor's definition of "work" in Thailand is so vague it can be interpreted that almost anything you do can be considered work. No money needs to be earned under the definition of "work" in Thai labor laws. So as long as you dont piss anyone off you are most likely ok, but if you do piss someone off you can have big problems.

I know one nomad guy he has not been living in Thailand for about 8 years. He came to Thailand on holiday and never wanted to go back. He makes money working remotely taking care of his customers computers back home, but not much. He has never tried to increase his income and he only has two customers. He is one of those guys living off noodles. He met a girl got married and had a baby. They live in BKK in a small house for only 4000B a month, they have one mobile phone they share and internet. His daughter goes to public school he makes just enough to get by and have a beer once in awhile. I feel bad for the guy.

[Chiengmaijoe]

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

In order to have opinions like you I can only assume that "I am a long-term resident" means somewhere between a year or three. You haven't got a clue, mate. Like most people, Thais like to mind their own business. You obviously don't.

[Puwa]

Old categories like expat, tourist, retiree etc no longer encompass the realities of how people live and work. Because these basic concepts are out of sync, the laws, policies, and procedures based on them also fail to make sense.

But in the examples that come attached to this term, I don't see nomadism, but people more or less settling down.

In my case, I am employed, paid, and taxed overseas, but I live and work from home in Chiang Mai. I have an O visa. It's a great arrangement as far as money and lifetyle are concerned.

If there is a choice to make, I choose to side with independence over social control, creativity over conformity, and progress over blind fidelity to arcane rules and categories. Anyway, in matters like this I am inclined to live and let live.

[daoyai]

"If there is a choice to make, I choose to side with independence over social control, creativity over conformity, and progress over blind fidelity to arcane rules and categories. Anyway, in matters like this I am inclined to live and let live." Quote from Puwa, well stated.

Non conformist farangs were the norm in CM for a long time, the corporate types were largely a BKK phenomenon... now CM and especially this forum seems to attract the conformist dullard pensioners and a few right wing business types that seem to feel they are somehow embassadors for their "race', their justification for hating on those that don't share their views, lifestyle and fashion sense is that they will be looked down upon, judged or otherwise penalized for also being farang. Give the locals more credit, in my experience they respect the free thinker the non conformist that can find away around the rules and laws that are often put in place by the corrupt govt. Thai people are great at bending rules and ignoring laws. ....oh, and speak polite Thai, that is one custom that works.

Edited August 1, 2015 by daoyai

[puukao]

Even youtube videos is "working" and all phones should be confiscated!!!!

USA allows some Thais to come to America and make as much as possible doing whatever....

Reciprocity!!!!

usually owning restaurants, but they (the restaurant) can still make 50,000 a month....

[dru2]

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

In order to have opinions like you I can only assume that "I am a long-term resident" means somewhere between a year or three. You haven't got a clue, mate. Like most people, Thais like to mind their own business. You obviously don't.

Try thirty years.

But I agree that I probably haven't got a clue.

[huawei]

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

In order to have opinions like you I can only assume that "I am a long-term resident" means somewhere between a year or three. You haven't got a clue, mate. Like most people, Thais like to mind their own business. You obviously don't.

Try thirty years.

But I agree that I probably haven't got a clue.

Why care as long as what you are doing is mindful of others. I have been here as long as you and really I don't care what my neighbours think..up to them, my neighbours are both Thai and foreigner.

This dm thing is a non issue in the scheme of things.

[Throatwobbler]

With traditional backpackers having pretty much died out, a new group is needed to be jealous of and therefore disparaged at every opportunity.

BTW if paying taxes was key then I wonder how many retirees pay taxes in return for using Thailand's infrastructure.

This is unusually stupid for a normally astute poster such as yourself, Winnie.

What on earth is there to be jealous of, other than youth?

I thought both WinnieTheKwai and SoiBiker's comments were spot on.

Every time the topic of digital nomads comes up, people start moaning about them. It's either "they don't pay tax" or "they are working illegally", or "they are making no money and are just low lifes".....

Why does it matter to anyone what or how someone else lives their life? Who cares if they pay tax? How do you know what the make?

There is a lot of jealousy I suspect because these clever people (young and old) have the skills to make money whilst working to their own schedule, from where they choose.

Well thank you very much, Sean, that makes me a clever old(ish) person!

My objections to digital freeloading, particularly when openly publicised and clearly against Thai law (sharing office space) is that I am a long-term Western resident of Thailand who actually cares what my Thai neighbours and Thai society in general think about me and my family.

Westerners who cheat on their visa status, fail to get work permits, fail to pay tax - and then boast about it as though it were something clever - risk bringing the foreign community into disrepute as surely as the Western pimps and drug pushers of Pattaya and Phuket.

You are a really bitter person. Relax.

[Paul944]

How do I become a digital nomad in CM? I have no objections to work from home or in an air conditioned shared workspace. I do not mind paying taxes or commissions as long my net income is about 150,000 baht a month.

[TheRascal]

How do I become a digital nomad in CM? I have no objections to work from home or in an air conditioned shared workspace. I do not mind paying taxes or commissions as long my net income is about 150,000 baht a month.

[phrodan]

How do I become a digital nomad in CM? I have no objections to work from home or in an air conditioned shared workspace. I do not mind paying taxes or commissions as long my net income is about 150,000 baht a month.

Why the small beer? I know "nomads," that are earning between 700 - 900 K ( baht ) per month - and they're not at the top of the tree.

NancyL's posts described accurately immigration's view on "digital nomads." If I remember correctly, immigration confirmed that they were uninterested in nomads at a public meeting last year.

The guy that brought up Tieland to Thailand was right to highlight one of the better blogs. An individual moved out of CM last year that had/has a travel blog rated in the top twenty in the entire world. That individual, who I know well, told me they were astonished at how much money an article could generate through adclicks.

However, it's also correct to say that the majority of blogs earn very little. That's mainly due to the inane content delivery. The vast majority of travel bloggers have zero imagination, and even less self-awareness. That lack of self awareness can be seen best in the "Eight Miles from Home," vlog. Their vids are among the best you'll see in Thailand, but the guy in particular doesn't have the persona to lead and engage the audience. he should stick behind the camera and allow his partner to present.

However, the money ain't in travel blogging.

The money is in contractual work for Western clients. There's a guy sitting in Chiang Mai just now operating the processing system for a US based education board. Another frequent visitor has written an app that directs blind people around major airports and public places using wifi. Some of these app writer are making funny money. One CM based nomad earned $300,000 last year from an app that taught kids how to draw. He brought together twenty-three artists who created their own distinctive drawing style within the app - so he was able to show kids how to draw animations, landscapes, buildings, flowers etc.

The list goes on and on and on.

In my case, my UK based company contracts Thais to run my social media. That puts me in the happy position of being able to write off my travel costs to Thailand against tax, and to take a per diem during my stay. My stays in Thailand earn me money, which is a bit unique.

On the other hand, it drives some people nuts. Nuts with jealousy as they don't know where to even start doing that. They don't know how to access ASEAN visas, they don't know about offshore Asian corporations, they don't know how to switch a PC on never mind how to make money from it - and the idea of people floating around the world living a tax free existence drives their small minds bananas.

And then the drivel pours out. So here's what I'll do for you - for those among you that are not small minded and not disinclined to learn how to make money online - sign up for this website.

https://www.udemy.com/

You''ll find hundreds if courses on that site, and they can be quite pricey. Don't buy any just now - Udemy are in the habit of having flash sales where you can buy courses for $10.00. Udemy is an excellent entry portal into online earning.

And who knows - maybe some of you naysayers will be here next year defending nomads.

And my last word? I mentioned that many travel bloggers lack content and imagination/self awareness. One of the best travel bloggers in the industry died prematurely last year - a blogger that was a regular visitor to Chiang Mai. If you have some time on your hands - peruse the work of Johnny Vagabond.

http://johnnyvagabond.com/

( with apologies to the mods - I know that linking to outside blogs is against the rules ).

[bangmai]

I was the one, who brought up Tieland...but you must have missed the part where www.scamaudit.com says the site has the "potential" to make less than 200 usd per month. She spent a year teaching on 28K per month. Most wouldn't do that if they had 10K us in the bank. But yeah, it is one of the more popular ones...700 visitors a day (again according to scam audit)...but those checks from Google are pretty tiny, and continually more restrictive. Many have got rich in the computer business, it's not easy. They practically have to pay people to use some of this educational software. Even the biggest pig in the business, Microsoft, is giving away some of its training programs now.

[phrodan]

I was the one, who brought up Tieland...but you must have missed the part where www.scamaudit.com says the site has the "potential" to make less than 200 usd per month. She spent a year teaching on 28K per month. Most wouldn't do that if they had 10K us in the bank. But yeah, it is one of the more popular ones...700 visitors a day (again according to scam audit)...but those checks from Google are pretty tiny, and continually more restrictive. Many have got rich in the computer business, it's not easy. They practically have to pay people to use some of this educational software. Even the biggest pig in the business, Microsoft, is giving away some of its training programs now.

Do you make money online?

[Briggsy]

Another thread in the Chiang Mai forum with the usual suspects frothing at the mouth about the "digital pikeys". I am not sure why people get so worked up. But it often seems to feature in this forum, seems to be a bug bear to some.

[bangmai]

I was the one, who brought up Tieland...but you must have missed the part where www.scamaudit.com says the site has the "potential" to make less than 200 usd per month. She spent a year teaching on 28K per month. Most wouldn't do that if they had 10K us in the bank. But yeah, it is one of the more popular ones...700 visitors a day (again according to scam audit)...but those checks from Google are pretty tiny, and continually more restrictive. Many have got rich in the computer business, it's not easy. They practically have to pay people to use some of this educational software. Even the biggest pig in the business, Microsoft, is giving away some of its training programs now.

Do you make money online?

been trading stocks online since StreetSmart for DOS with a 2400 bps dial up modem that accessed Compu-Serve. Some winners, some losers.

[phrodan]

I was the one, who brought up Tieland...but you must have missed the part where www.scamaudit.com says the site has the "potential" to make less than 200 usd per month. She spent a year teaching on 28K per month. Most wouldn't do that if they had 10K us in the bank. But yeah, it is one of the more popular ones...700 visitors a day (again according to scam audit)...but those checks from Google are pretty tiny, and continually more restrictive. Many have got rich in the computer business, it's not easy. They practically have to pay people to use some of this educational software. Even the biggest pig in the business, Microsoft, is giving away some of its training programs now.

Do you make money online?

been trading stocks online since StreetSmart for DOS with a 2400 bps dial up modem that accessed Compu-Serve. Some winners, some losers.

Pleased to hear it. I also trade the markets.

So we are both digital pikeys.