From the battle for a daughter to a son lost

[Lite Beer]

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From the battle for a daughter to a son lost
KORNCHANOK RAKSASERI
@Aim_TH

BANGKOK: -- Thursday was the first day when the Surrogacy Act went into effect after being passed in February.

And it comes at a time when there's one story that has caught almost everybody's attention on social media - a gay couple's battle to take their daughter out of Thailand as the surrogate mother is refusing to sign the relevant documents.

The surrogate mother, Oil, has said on Facebook and on TV that she did not know she was carrying a baby for two men, and is afraid that the gay men might be human traffickers.

The couple has denied this allegation, saying a lot of the information provided by Oil is incorrect. One of the fathers, American national Gordon Alan "Bud" Lake, explained that he and his husband Manuel Santos really wanted a daughter to complete their family and that he will not leave Thailand without baby Carmen.

Lake and Santos married three years ago and are living in Valencia, Spain, with their two-year-old son, who was born to a surrogate mother in India.

After the battle began making headlines, many Thai netizens joined the #BringCarmenHome campaign, though the surrogate mother's supporters have been following the #StandWithPatidta hashtag.

Lake and Santos have also set up Twitter accounts (@twogaypapas and @bringcarmenhome), page www.bringcarmenhome.org, BringCarmenHome Facebook page and a petition via www.change.org, asking for help, posting messages calling on Oil to change her mind as well as providing photos and videos showing how well Carmen is being taken care of.

Oil, meanwhile, has closed her Facebook page and is only speaking to some media outlets, though some netizens have dug out her old posts and discovered that she has always had a penchant for part-Thai, part-farang babies.

@U_Devil8 pointed out: "No human traffickers would run around in Bangkok for six months and go on TV so that they can get the baby. Only fathers do."

@brian_the_lover posted: The farang said the reason he chose a Thai woman as a surrogate for his baby is because Thai people have beautiful minds and live in a beautiful country. He did not expect she would accuse him of being a human trafficker.

@Thairath_TV has been keeping track of those backing the "BringCarmenHome" campaign, and the number was over 62,000 on Facebook and more than 88,000 at change.org as of last night.

The new law, meanwhile, was drafted to protect surrogate children and prevent human trafficking. For instance, it sets specific requirements, such as the age of the surrogate, that one person must be Thai and that the couple wanting the baby must have been married for at least three years.

In cases where the surrogacy took place before the Act went into effect, petitions can be filed in court over a surrogate baby.

Another hot issue on social media this week was the reaction to Thailand being kept at Tier 3, the lowest rank, in the Trafficking in Persons 2015 Report for a second year.

Senior attorney Wanchai Roujanavong wrote a post on Facebook, explaining the implications of the latest TIP report. He said it was being used as a tool to pressure Thailand economically, though he said the Kingdom could defend itself because it did not fall under the Tier 3 category as per the definition of violations. However, he admitted that the Thai government still had a lot of work to do when it comes to human rights and other issues.

Facebook user Scout Number Nine posted US senator Robert Menendez's comment saying the report had been politicised, citing the decision to upgrade Malaysia and Cuba to Tier 2 watchlist. However, Sarah Sewall, the under-secretary of state for civilian security, democracy and human rights, has denied allegations that the upgrade was linked to President Barack Obama's will to have Malaysia participate in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Patchara Kerdsiri jokingly posted: "Obama is considering whether to boycott Thailand within 90 days. Sorry, we have boycotted you a long time ago."

@LastIFound said: "Don't worry about US upgrading Malaysia to Tier 2. America is also being evaluated by the world including Thais, foreigners and its own people."

However, people's attention shifted from the TIP report when tributes to Sqweez Animal guitarist, Prachatip "Singha" Musigapong, began flooding in after he committed suicide late on Wednesday night. Sadly, since he was the son of red-shirt leader Veerakarn Musigapong, a few people began posting nasty comments against him and his family. However, others stood up in defence, as linking a sad event like this with politics is downright inappropriate.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/From-the-battle-for-a-daughter-to-a-son-lost-30265661.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-01

[gchurch259]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

Edited August 1, 2015 by gchurch259

[BigBadGeordie]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

Would be interested to hear your views on the KKK, just a guess, but I suspect you may have first hand knowledge?

[razer]

It gets weirder and weirder, doesn't it?

[NickJ]

By golly I done watched me a teevee program and they had a big old bed in the bedroom and not two smalley ones. What in tarnation is that all about......

[greenchair]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

[Johnyo]

What do you know about Spain?

[SOTIRIOS]

...what a pathetic load of crock....

...half the families are dysfunctional to begin with...

...and a high percentage of the men dress as women.....

...nothing to do with wanting to make this a media field day....

...and whatever other benefits come along with it....

...clearly an orchestrated pr even.....

...and not sure that someone in the government is not involved....

....'champions of justice'.....

......!@#$%^&*(..........

[orientalsf]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

Just take back the money given to her. Since she is so concerned about her daughter. Let it go. I'm sure some Thai man will now want her without all the money she was paid. Breach of contract.

[Prbkk]

Extortion is the question here, not ethics/morality. The child should be handed to the 2 men forthwith.

[TheRascal]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

Married less than a year and they endeavoured to get their first child! Downright shocking, especially since ALL straight couples are married for at least 2 years before they would even consider having a child.

[JeremyBowskill]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

Married less than a year and they endeavoured to get their first child! Downright shocking, especially since ALL straight couples are married for at least 2 years before they would even consider having a child.

Straight people have the equipment to do whatever they please.

[worgeordie]

A much better option if the 2 men wanted kids,is adoption,

bringing another child into the World,when so may kids are

living in desperate conditions,needing and looking for a

loving home,thats what they should have done.

regards Worgeordie

[Bluespunk]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

Astounding the degree of hate and intolerance you still see these days.

[bendejo]

How do these people find each other? Is there an Uber for wombs?

Sounds to me like mama want more $$. But it may go bad, get 'rights' groups involved etc and the deal gets cancelled, she gets stuck with the kid and no payoff.

[Bluespunk]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

It's not her child.

She has no say in who raises it or where they raise it.

[seajae]

considering that the thai woman did not conceive this baby,( ie she had the fertilized(one of the fathers) egg(donated) placed in her womb) how does she have any parental rights, she simply carried the egg to term without having any biological connection what so ever. The two men simply paid her to hire out her womb for 9 months, this is simply all about making a heap of money like the other did with the little boy, she sees herself in a big house with her future paid for by others if she can keep the baby.

[JakeSully]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

What part of the American Constitution says YOUR OPINION on how gays should live is gospel/ scripture/ the law? Clearly you're the bigot when you don't even know your own USA's law of the land!

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[Jimlove]

The 2 Guys might as well realize that they have to bring out the fat Brown envelope - Thai Law will not help them cause they are not thai, contract or no contract ...

Whoeever think Spain is not a better country to raise a child than US is an ignorant for sure ...

[greenchair]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

It's not her child.

She has no say in who raises it or where they raise it.

It is her child. she and a man conceived it together. She agreed to conceive it based on her beliefs of how the child would be raised. She never would have agreed to conceive this child based on the circumstances that these men have now presented to her.

They knew that. so they deliberately hid it from her whilst they were encouraging her to take part in the conception.

FRAUDSTERS

[greenchair]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

Just take back the money given to her. Since she is so concerned about her daughter. Let it go. I'm sure some Thai man will now want her without all the money she was paid. Breach of contract.

She has tried to give the money back. She and her husband and 15 year old daughter have money.

They have not asked for a penny.

The lawyer says they can prove in the court, they have plenty of money to care for the child.

She was tricked.

Her signature was obtained fraudulently.

The contract is void.

[Bluespunk]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

It's not her child.

She has no say in who raises it or where they raise it.

It is her child. she and a man conceived it together. She agreed to conceive it based on her beliefs of how the child would be raised. She never would have agreed to conceive this child based on the circumstances that these men have now presented to her.

They knew that. so they deliberately hid it from her whilst they were encouraging her to take part in the conception.

FRAUDSTERS

No. It's not her child. She has no genetic link to the child. She agreed to carry it for money. She got her money for doing her job. That is the end of her role in this child's life.

It's not her child. She has no role in its upbringing or right to judge the lifestyle of the parents. It is none of her business.

Now as to whether this form of surrogacy is morally acceptable....well that's another issue.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Bluespunk

[richard_smith237]

The surrogate mother signed any parental rights away when agreeing to use her body to grow a child which she has no genetic link to.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the gay couple will be anything other than loving and supportive parents.

Many would be lucky to grow up in such an environment.

It's time this self-centred nastiness was done with so that the child may finally start her life with her biological parent and his partner.

[greenchair]

Thank goodness this girl has the courage to speak out concerns for the safety of the little baby. The baby will go to Spain with a gay couple barely married 3 years. In Spain there will never be any checks on this child's well being. They were married barely a year, when they endeavoured to get their first child. All the Thai girl wants is to at least be able to go and check on the little girl sometimes. She was made to believe this child would be going to America with a mother and a father. She has every right to be concerned for the child's well being. Since she brought the girl into this world, she has a duty to make sure the baby will be cared for correctly.

She said she would never have accepted if she knew the truth.

The contract is void, due to deception. Even I am a little worried about the future of this little girl.

It's not her child.

She has no say in who raises it or where they raise it.

It is her child. she and a man conceived it together. She agreed to conceive it based on her beliefs of how the child would be raised. She never would have agreed to conceive this child based on the circumstances that these men have now presented to her.

They knew that. so they deliberately hid it from her whilst they were encouraging her to take part in the conception.

FRAUDSTERS

No. It's not her child. She has no genetic link to the child. She agreed to carry it for money. She got her money for doing her job. That is the end of her role in this child's life.

It's not her child. She has no role in its upbringing or right to judge the lifestyle of the parents. It is none of her business.

Now as to whether this form of surrogacy is morally acceptable....well that's another issue.

Definition of birth mother.

The woman that gives birth to a child, regardless of whether it is genetic or not.

She is the birth mother.

She has every right to demand to transparency in this child's upbringing.

She is not against them having the child. She just wants to check on her sometimes.

A fair ask from the birth mother.

Since the birth father lied through his teeth. Or contract should I say.

FRAUDSTERS

[Bluespunk]

It's not her child. She has absolutely no say in its upbringing.

[greenchair]

It's not her child. She has absolutely no say in its upbringing.

She is the birth mother. Ask any court, in Thailand and abroad.

[Bluespunk]

It's not her child. She has absolutely no say in its upbringing.

She is the birth mother. Ask any court, in Thailand and abroad.

She has no generic link to this child.

She was paid to carry it.

She took the job and the money.

That was her role and that role ended when she gave birth.

It's not her child. She has no say in its upbringing.

[richard_smith237]

Definition of birth mother.

The woman that gives birth to a child, regardless of whether it is genetic or not.

She is the birth mother.

She has every right to demand to transparency in this child's upbringing.

She is not against them having the child. She just wants to check on her sometimes.

A fair ask from the birth mother.

Since the birth father lied through his teeth. Or contract should I say.

FRAUDSTERS

No, the Surrogate gave up this right to have any involvement in the Child's up bringing when signing the Surrogacy Contract, receiving a payment and having someone else's fertilised blast inseminated.

She is a Surrogate Mother - thats it.. Yes, Birth Mother... but as a Surrogate agreed to give up any parental rights.

IMO The fact that the Gay Couple were not transparent about their relationship is irrelevant to this argument... Would people still be claiming the Surrogate has rights to her Non-Biological-Birth-Child if the 'to-be-parents' were a conventional, loving hetro-sexual couple ?

[nottocus]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

Yep. Gotta agree with this. Liberal western ideas on gays are rubbish. A kid needs a mum and a dad. Not two dad's where one is pretending to be a woman.

[Jingthing]

Have no use for Gay couples wanting to have and raise children, especially two men !! Of, course my being raised in the USA I have a different standard than they seem to have in some other countries.

This thing has gotten so crazy they are now wanting Gay Boy Scout Masters. Try and tell me they will not try and teach their own habits to others !!

Yep. Gotta agree with this. Liberal western ideas on gays are rubbish. A kid needs a mum and a dad. Not two dad's where one is pretending to be a woman.

Doubling down on the bigotry, eh?

These are two gay male Daddies.

Not pretending to be a woman.

Also it has been published that their family has a large family support group back in Spain obviously including female role models.