A Personal Reflection on the State of Restaurant Service in CM

[junglechef]

I understand you point and am still learning the culture and try to be sensitive to it while at the same time realize I'm not Thai.

I respect foreigners back home and hope can get a little of the same here for my mistakes and different upbringing.

But I'm replying to point out (not that it changes your point) that I don't blame the staff but the management/owners who ultimately suffer financially.

Again probably a cultural thing and that the profit is less important then "mai pen rai".

Which brings another question to mind, why is this?

In the eyes of a Westerner it is often seen as laziness but as I know that many business owners have the desire for money and understand the basics of capitalism I can't figure out why they would not run their business with some of the basic procedures that effect the bottom line.

[Awk]

Can someone explain to me why the staff often don't write down the order and in these cases usually what's served to you isn't right.

The restaurant can loose money either then or not getting repeat business and the customers usually isn't satisfied when this happens, if they say something or not.

There's a reason that this simple procedure is followed all over the world but I find here it just seems like just too much work for the staff to do an adequate job by making the small necessary effort to serve the customer what they order.

Don't know what restaurants you go to,every one i go to have order books,and always repeat the order back to us, then the bill you get shows what you ordered and itemized.

Not ones in nice hotels or McDonalds kind of places. Thai restaurants where often the bill is just a total.

Even last night I went to one of the Shabu Shabu places in Central Mall and was just told my total when I went to pay at the front desk so I asked for a bill and the manager wrote down 2345 (bht) on a piece of paper and this was a chain in a mall!

If you have your order ALWAYS repeated to you and get an itemized bill EVERY TIME you should really get out more or exaggerate less

The thai write down orders...in some places. But it is totally TOTALLY standard to serve something, anything, whether it is correct or not. Thai always say yes to everything. You want chicken? Ok no problem! They put the order into the kitchen and...there's no chicken. Mai pen rai! Just serve pork and hopefully the customer doesn't notice. That's what it is man, if you point out that your dish clearly isn't chicken, well guess what, YOU lose face, not them.

I disagree, maybe in their eyes I lose face by pointing out the wrong thing was served but if done politely really I only can see that they might be trying to pass the blame and not really think it.

So if your a Muslim you should just not eat and pay or worse eat the pork as to not lose face?

I do agree it is standard to serve the wrong thing for numerous reasons but most boiling down to mai pen rai.

Do I eat the pork when I ordered the chicken, sure as I don't care which is it but if my steamed fish comes out deep fried, which I do care about as I don't eat fried food for health reasons, I would send it back.

Am I embarrassed? Maybe for them that they aren't able to get an order right.

By you pointing out their mistake you have failed gren jai and therefore make them feel bad...thus you lose face.

I'm no expert on Thai culture, but your understanding of it does not match my experiences at all.

Some time ago I was having lunch with a Thai friend who is both unusually well mannered and well educated. One of the things we ordered was a Thai salad, specifying no chili. When it arrived, it was full of chili. I said I'd try a mouthful anyway, but it was inedible to me. My friend pointed out the mistake to the staff and promptly sent it back to be replaced with what we ordered. I cannot imagine my friend doing that if it would mean she would lose any form of face at a restaurant she frequently eats at.

[beau thai]

I understand you point and am still learning the culture and try to be sensitive to it while at the same time realize I'm not Thai.

I respect foreigners back home and hope can get a little of the same here for my mistakes and different upbringing.

But I'm replying to point out (not that it changes your point) that I don't blame the staff but the management/owners who ultimately suffer financially.

Again probably a cultural thing and that the profit is less important then "mai pen rai".

Which brings another question to mind, why is this?

In the eyes of a Westerner it is often seen as laziness but as I know that many business owners have the desire for money and understand the basics of capitalism I can't figure out why they would not run their business with some of the basic procedures that effect the bottom line.

I totally agree with Junglechef. So many old timers or long-timers tell those of us who have lived here for fewer years that we dont understand the culture.

But everywhere culture is dynamic and in Thailand it's transitional. Again, as everywhere, the big cities change first and fastest. Chiang Mai is a big city.

Not many years ago, maybe when some of the long timers arrived, it was not 'thai culture' to visit Malls, Bank online, take selfies, use Atm's, eat at places like MK, Sizzler etc, drive around in big 4x4's, go to movie theatres. Or watch movies from and about other countries on tv,. Take flights. You will think of better examples

All of these things and many more change culture. Including the numbers of visitors to and from other countries- and cultures

I think that to attribute the sloppy sub-standard restaurant service to 'Thai culture' is demeaning and just plain wrong.

When we treat ourselves to an expensive (555) meal at MK, Sizzler, Wine Connection, Santa Fe etc it is very very unusual to get bad service. As JC observed, these owners care more for the bottom line and I suspect if they get too many customer complaints, then the local manager is moved on- thai style- or even fired.

Oh, and an example of an inexpensive Thai owned and run Italian restaurant with first rate service ( and great food and ambience): Lapin. It can be done!

On a recent visit to Munich we had particularly bad, rude service at a big restaurant. We walked out but I dont attribute that to German culture. (Everywhere else we ate we had very good service).

I think that to accept bad service with a shrug rather than pointing it out politely( without ranting), and/or taking your custom elsewhere just contributes to the problem.

To (boringly) quote George Bernard Shaw- '

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

If we can be bothered maybe we all need to be a little unreasonable sometimes....

[fireplay]

Chilis and farang are a joke to thai people...they pride themselves in the level of spice they can handle and laugh at farang who cannot enjoy this type of heat. A little different than the ole pork chicken switcheroo or just straight up error because they forgot because they didn't write it....hahah ya not trying to make sweeping generalizations there are many variances and exceptions....at Dukes the other day i ordered an old fashioned and was suprised ( but not really) when the waitress said ok when it was 3 in the afternoon. As we all know booze is not served between 2 and 5 pm. I was actually more surprised when she came back empty handed and told me sorry she couldn't serve me. I was expecting some virgin drink to be slipped to me 5555

[Konini]

Going off on a tangent here, but do Thai's understand the pork thing? I would bet that there is not a single westerner in the world who doesn't know that Muslims don't eat pork for religious reasons and probably a massive majority that also understand that Jews don't eat pork either and that the majority of Indians don't eat beef, again, both for religious reasons. Would the average Thai person in the street know about the pork? I mean, really understand it - it's not like switching caffeinated for decaffeinated after all, and someone who accidentally consumed pork or beef would be very, very upset (with good reason, unless it was a really horrible accident and not just a calculated or thoughtless switch in the kitchen).

If not the average person on the street, would the average person working in an establishment that caters to foreigners know? Anyone of Indian appearance is almost certain to be either beef or pork-free, but would they even think about that? Or indeed, would they even know that?

[worgeordie]

Its not only in Chiang Mai that service can be iffy,once in a restaurant in Dublin.

this older waitress was just putting plates of food in front of people,she gave me

Stew, I said I ordered the Fish,her reply was ,so you don't want it then!,i think

she was having an episode or something, it was also quite funny at the time,

take it or leave it.

regards worgeordie

[junglechef]

Going off on a tangent here, but do Thai's understand the pork thing? I would bet that there is not a single westerner in the world who doesn't know that Muslims don't eat pork for religious reasons and probably a massive majority that also understand that Jews don't eat pork either and that the majority of Indians don't eat beef, again, both for religious reasons. Would the average Thai person in the street know about the pork? I mean, really understand it - it's not like switching caffeinated for decaffeinated after all, and someone who accidentally consumed pork or beef would be very, very upset (with good reason, unless it was a really horrible accident and not just a calculated or thoughtless switch in the kitchen).

If not the average person on the street, would the average person working in an establishment that caters to foreigners know? Anyone of Indian appearance is almost certain to be either beef or pork-free, but would they even think about that? Or indeed, would they even know that?

Interesting especially with the large number of Muslim Thais, though admittedly not in the North, and I have seen how some only know about what's on their own doorstep here.

The majority of Jews are not kosher and eat pork, shellfish and other "tref".

I happily eat pork, my parents who not serve pork in the house but would order spare ribs in a restaurant and my Grandparent never ate it in their lives.

Seems to be similar to beau thai's post about how culture changes with time.