Will Pattaya be a ghost town in ten years?

[Asiantravel]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

I believe economic cycles are 8 years. 8 years on the up, and 8 on the down.

Not the first time economies went to crap and not the first it recovered

That statement still doesn’t answer the earlier question “ where exactly are the jobs going to come from” ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people can’t afford travel.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

[thaibeachlovers]

Just my private observation. After (3?) high-seasons, that turned out to be "below expectations", a good number of Farang business owners and potential investors, seem to have decided to wait and see how the next high season turns out, before making any major decisions.

A 4th high season in a row, turning out to be "below expectations", will certainly not be seen as a positive sign by current and future investors concerning Pattaya.

Just food for thought. Cheers..

I really, really hope all those potential investors go away and stuff up some other town. It is their like building things like Central in Pattaya rather than Jomptien where it should have been built that have ruined Pattaya, trying to make it a family friendly destination. Get lost families, Pattaya is for big boys.

[thaibeachlovers]

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

I believe economic cycles are 8 years. 8 years on the up, and 8 on the down.

Not the first time economies went to crap and not the first it recovered

That statement still doesn’t answer the earlier question “ where exactly are the jobs going to come from” ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people can’t afford travel.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

America now has a robot that "learns". Not long before there are zero low level factory jobs. If one is starting out now, learn how to fix robots if you want a well paying job, at least till they invent robots that fix other robots.

And without salaries people can’t afford travel

Or houses or cars or luxuries or movies or restaurants etc etc etc. Yet governments do ZERO to prepare. When the riots start they'll be sitting in the ruins of their cities and saying "what happened?".

Do the morons think the 1% will buy enough to keep the economy functioning?

I've actually read posts on TV from people that think it is a good idea to mechanise farms in Thailand and throw millions of workers to the dogs!!!!!!!!!

[thailandforumaddict]

Most of Thai and foreigners who open business here just know nothing, so it's not a surprise if these marketing retard close after few months !

[konying]

That statement still doesnt answer the earlier question where exactly are the jobs going to come from ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people cant afford travel.[/size][/font]

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

OP is NOT about how world economies will recover. I also did not put a time frame on when.

However it will recover one way or another .

If you like to believe it's the end of days , might as well throw yourself off the balcony now or invest in a gun and shoot yourself

Edited August 3, 2015 by konying

[fred Kubasa]

The big problem with the bar businesses in Pattaya is that far too many bars were opened in the last decade while the customers who use them fell. In the meanwhile the landlords kept increasing the rents well above inflation, regardless of the lower business they are doing.

Net result is that most small bars are no longer viable and cannot generate the profit required in the high season to see them through the low season.

This will only change when the demand for bar premises stops (but there is always some falang willing to throw his money away) and the bar rental market collapses.

It is all about supply and demand, When half the bars have closed and the landlords can't rent the properties then the rental price will fall and the remaining bars will become viable.

In the meanwhile Pattaya is NOT the place to start or buy a business catering for the falangs. Too much competition and too few customers.

The only reason it hasn't collapsed so far was due to the Russians.

Now the Chinese who replaced them aren't exactly the independent traveler types. You never see small groups or individual Chinese in a bar or restaurant or shopping or buying a condo.

Pattaya needs the independant adventuress type of traveler to thrive and they are becoming very rare.

Chinese numbers are not the answer as they do not support the local businesses and without a more independent traveller who will support small local businesses Pattaya is going one way and that is down.

Actually the Russians are very poor marketeers as their TV staions and other advertising is, for the most part in Russian, directed to Russians and even a fool will tell you not to depend on friends and relatives to support your business. Would be smarter to include everybody IN ENGLISH

[robertson468]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Since when has August been low season??? This is prime holiday time in Europe and I am booked out to the gunnels.

[fosseway]

I fail to see how history can predict the future.

[Tolley]

I find it hard to believe that Hooters will be a success in Pattaya.

I mean Pattaya is quite price sensitive and Hooters wont be cheap so for a start that will wipe out a lot of customers.

And the girl attraction can be had all over town and in much sexier outfits or no outfits as the case may be.

I believe the "price concious" are not the demographic that Hooters are after, I can imagine too many balloons outside.

There are loads of Pubs/Bars that charge over 100 baht/drink, to quite a few people, service, ambience and location mean a lot more than a 50 baht beer.

Yes but where is the demographic that might pay over the odds for things they can easily get elsewhere in Pattaya a lot cheaper.

I don't see enough of that demographic in Pattaya.

Maybe the wealthier thais might be attracted to it?

It really is a very passé idea from the 70s/80s.

[1FinickyOne]

Places change - - Pattaya as I knew it in 1974 was a dusty road with a few beach bungalows - - I would say it is the end of that Pattaya - Like most places in the world, it will continue evolving…

[Tolley]

That statement still doesnt answer the earlier question where exactly are the jobs going to come from ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people cant afford travel.[/size][/font]

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

OP is NOT about how world economies will recover. I also did not put a time frame on when.

However it will recover one way or another .

If you like to believe it's the end of days , might as well throw yourself off the balcony now or invest in a gun and shoot yourself

We are at interesting point in history with globalisation really gathering pace and automation/technologies et starting to replace traditional jobs both for white collar workers and blue collar workers.

At the same time we have huge swathes of job seekers searching for fewer and fewer well paid jobs and with porous borders and quick overseas travel available it means a huge global workforce which will continue to push wages lower and lower for most people.

None of the western economies is ever going to recover sufficiently to restore previous standards of livings. Rather we will have a polarisation of wealth at the upper end with more and more people on struggle street battling to survive. That is the harsh new reality for most westerners.

Maybe 20percent at the top creaming it and the gradual shrinking of the middle classes with more and more people pushed into lower and lower standards of living.

[konying]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Since when has August been low season??? This is prime holiday time in Europe and I am booked out to the gunnels.

Since always

[Rimmer]

Racist troll post and reply removed also a post in weird fonts

[fgmr]

I hope it does revert to being a normal Thai provincial town rather than a hangout for £"£$!"£$.

[Asiantravel]

That statement still doesnt answer the earlier question where exactly are the jobs going to come from ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people cant afford travel.[/size][/font]

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

OP is NOT about how world economies will recover. I also did not put a time frame on when.

However it will recover one way or another .

If you like to believe it's the end of days , might as well throw yourself off the balcony now or invest in a gun and shoot yourself

LOL why would I shoot myself or throw myself off the balcony when it doesn't affect me because I'm comfortably off.

But sorry if you can’t join the dots and see the relationship between deteriorating job opportunities, stagnant world economies and a reduction in disposable incomes that enable people to travel internationally for leisure.

and when you say " however it will recover one way or another " there absolutely no evidence that it will ever recover to the level it was before.

[Asiantravel]

That statement still doesnt answer the earlier question where exactly are the jobs going to come from ? In the past 8 year cycles you refered to there used to be smokestack industries that would readily offer employment . but even in China a factory recently replaced 90% of its human workers with robots and by doing so then achieved 162% increase in productivity. Look around this trend is everywhere from factories to fast food restaurants. And without salaries people cant afford travel.[/size][/font]

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/chinese-factory-replaces-90-of-humans-with-robots-production-soars/

OP is NOT about how world economies will recover. I also did not put a time frame on when.

However it will recover one way or another .

If you like to believe it's the end of days , might as well throw yourself off the balcony now or invest in a gun and shoot yourself

We are at interesting point in history with globalisation really gathering pace and automation/technologies et starting to replace traditional jobs both for white collar workers and blue collar workers.

At the same time we have huge swathes of job seekers searching for fewer and fewer well paid jobs and with porous borders and quick overseas travel available it means a huge global workforce which will continue to push wages lower and lower for most people.

None of the western economies is ever going to recover sufficiently to restore previous standards of livings. Rather we will have a polarisation of wealth at the upper end with more and more people on struggle street battling to survive. That is the harsh new reality for most westerners.

Maybe 20percent at the top creaming it and the gradual shrinking of the middle classes with more and more people pushed into lower and lower standards of living.

you also forgot to mention the insatiable appetite by governments both local and national for higher and higher taxes

[PETERTHEEATER]

Will Pattaya be a ghost town in ten years?

One lives in hope.....

[DipStick]

Having lived and worked legally in Thailand for nearly ten years (ago) and now working in China, for the last nine years, I find it sad that those who do not know China or the Chinese, racialistly put them down. Which is sad as it shows ignorance.

China is a hugely diverse country, because of a number of reasons, the so called Peasants now have money and they are prepared to travel. The issue is, they are insecure, these so called Peasants because they have been cut off from the rest of the world, prefer to travel in tour groups, groups that are CONTROLLED by the Thai tour lleaders, taking bus loads to certain outlets where they get huge commissions.

Chinese shout all the time,agreed, but only because there village neighbour is not in close proximity to them , insecurity sets in again.why is it that Isaan girls mainly mix with their own ?

There are so many on here who cannot and don't even bother to learn Thai, even though it's their adopted country, albeit rather shakily. Chinese won't mix. Ha I was In Hua Hin quite recently, I had a meal and there were loads of Chinese stunners in the restaurant. The usual groups who seemed not to want to be seen. I engaged them in Chinese ( yup language abilities again) and before I knew it calls were being made and a lot more Chinese girls came in and quite a party ensued. WHY ? Because they forgot their instability and relaxed. Mind you, I was not to popular with the Thai tour leader, who ended up taking an almost empty bus back to the groups hotel.

I would suggest that those who live in glass houses should........ Well you know what.

[charmonman]

If it falls far enough it might get to the point where you can actually walk on Walking Street, get from one end of town to the other in five minutes on a baht bus, and find a smaller number of well staffed and thriving bars rather than the mile after mile of sad looking beer bars. That's what it was like 25 years ago, and it was a far more enjoyable place.

[zierf1]

It's been a ghost town for at least 7 years. It started to go down the toilet around 2008(financial crisis). Won't recover until the Baht goes to 40-50 to the USD and likewise for the Euro.

[onemorechang]

Having lived and worked legally in Thailand for nearly ten years (ago) and now working in China, for the last nine years, I find it sad that those who do not know China or the Chinese, racialistly put them down. Which is sad as it shows ignorance.

China is a hugely diverse country, because of a number of reasons, the so called Peasants now have money and they are prepared to travel. The issue is, they are insecure, these so called Peasants because they have been cut off from the rest of the world, prefer to travel in tour groups, groups that are CONTROLLED by the Thai tour lleaders, taking bus loads to certain outlets where they get huge commissions.

Chinese shout all the time,agreed, but only because there village neighbour is not in close proximity to them , insecurity sets in again.why is it that Isaan girls mainly mix with their own ?

There are so many on here who cannot and don't even bother to learn Thai, even though it's their adopted country, albeit rather shakily. Chinese won't mix. Ha I was In Hua Hin quite recently, I had a meal and there were loads of Chinese stunners in the restaurant. The usual groups who seemed not to want to be seen. I engaged them in Chinese ( yup language abilities again) and before I knew it calls were being made and a lot more Chinese girls came in and quite a party ensued. WHY ? Because they forgot their instability and relaxed. Mind you, I was not to popular with the Thai tour leader, who ended up taking an almost empty bus back to the groups hotel.

I would suggest that those who live in glass houses should........ Well you know what.

If you say so,

[ggt]

1st time I visited Pattaya...many moons ago...it was a sleepy little fishing village...now it never sleeps...Pattaya will always attract visitors...

If the Russians are no longer coming in large numbers...change your business signs to Chinese...lower the price by 50% and offer lots of freebies...

That should keep you in business for the short run...hire extra help to clean up the toilets and floors...

[smotherb]

One of my hobbies here when I see restaurants opening is guessing when they will close. That's pretty naughty, I know. Sometimes I think places will work and then they still don't though. I couldn't have predicted all the Russian places closing before the Ruble crashed.

have you seen there is a new American restaurant opening soon at the front of " The Avenue " on second road directly above the pizza shop. It used to be an Irish pub. It will be called " the all-American restaurant " - chicken wings and other things. it will have a huge seating capacity but I have no idea if there will be enough people in their target audience.

Again, open a new business /bar where the last one failed

Great business sense

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While you may be carried away with the old adage, " Location, location, location"; unless the previous business was in an unfavorable location, it is not impossible that a well-run, but different turn on a similar business could make it. A more appropriate adage may be, "Understand the demand and efficiently supply it."

[smotherb]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

"Once economies world wide start doing better"

yes it of rolls off the tongue so easily doesn't it?

But not once have I read any explanation anywhere as to how this miracle of economies worldwide starting to do better is going to be achieved? Just for starters where are the jobs around the world going to come from (e.g. 44% youth unemployment in Italy, 50% youth unemployment in Spain)

I think you will see an entirely different dynamic in business, especially with employment. No longer will a few more advanced countries control technology and business development. The under-educated and under-skilled will have rough times, they will have to compete with all other nations' peoples for unlivable wages and fewer jobs. Seniority will mean nothing, life-long employment with the same firm will cease to exist.

If your job can be proceduralized, you know, written down step by step; then you can be replaced by anyone who can read. If you can learn your job in a year or less; then you can be replaced by someone with a year or less experience.

Edit: sorry, did not address the high youth unemployment in Spain and Italy. Both are in great part due to the lack of coordination between educational systems and the labor markets. In fact, I believe the EU has coined a term, NEET--no employment, education or training--to identify this phenomenon. However, if what I see for the future holds true, the educational systems and the labor markets will more effectively coordinate efforts, so there will be plenty of youthful applicants who can read and have a year or less experience.

Edited August 3, 2015 by smotherb

[Sprigger]

12 years ago you couldn't buy a bar down sois 7 & 8 for a pension now you can take your pick draw your own conclusions. Pattaya definitely on the slide.

[rocketboybkk]

One of my hobbies here when I see restaurants opening is guessing when they will close. That's pretty naughty, I know. Sometimes I think places will work and then they still don't though. I couldn't have predicted all the Russian places closing before the Ruble crashed.

have you seen there is a new American restaurant opening soon at the front of " The Avenue " on second road directly above the pizza shop. It used to be an Irish pub. It will be called " the all-American restaurant " - chicken wings and other things. it will have a huge seating capacity but I have no idea if there will be enough people in their target audience.

Again, open a new business /bar where the last one failed

Great business sense

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean they should demolish the building when a business fails.

Great business sense.

No, but why would someone open the same business that's just failed?

Very risky indeed

There's a reason it's failed & it's due to lack of incoming money.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dumbastheycome]

It's low season, on top of being very slow.

Pattaya will not be dying, however Pattaya is over supplied with identical businesses on every corner .

Almost every shophouse is turned into a bar and cheap rooms. Every shop sells same crap.

Weak will fail, strong will get their business.

Once economies world wide start doing better or baht crashes , tourists will return

Quote Once economies world wide start doing better unquote. Always remember we cannot judge the future by looking in the rear view mirror. I feel like I am in that movie where tourists went back in time to watch the dinosaurs but were told not to step off of the road. One guy did and stepped on a butterfly and changed the whole future. In all my years I have been through many ups and downs in the economy. I do not recognize the freight train bearing down on us now and I find it scary. My fiat money seems valueless in a sea of printed money sloshing around and it seems the bank does not want to pay me any interest or even want to hold my money on deposit unless its for free or I pay storage. They seem loaded with paper money. I no longer feel in control of my life.

That is no freight train! That is a huge credit Bus ! You are not supposed to have money....you should be living on credit!......Yes... Banks are full of money.... deposited for f....all. Follow the proven ( )American trend and borrow it ( including your own ) and keep the Bus moving!

The West is bankrupt but can stay afloat a little longer so long as it can stand on the heads of the East !

When the East is also dragged into bankruptcy.....then it will be really scary!

[Anthony5]

have you seen there is a new American restaurant opening soon at the front of " The Avenue " on second road directly above the pizza shop. It used to be an Irish pub. It will be called " the all-American restaurant " - chicken wings and other things. it will have a huge seating capacity but I have no idea if there will be enough people in their target audience.

Again, open a new business /bar where the last one failed

Great business sense

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean they should demolish the building when a business fails.

Great business sense.

No, but why would someone open the same business that's just failed?

Very risky indeed

There's a reason it's failed & it's due to lack of incoming money.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you consider an Irish pub and an All American restaurant one and the same thing?

[Jiggo]

One of my hobbies here when I see restaurants opening is guessing when they will close. That's pretty naughty, I know. Sometimes I think places will work and then they still don't though. I couldn't have predicted all the Russian places closing before the Ruble crashed.

have you seen there is a new American restaurant opening soon at the front of " The Avenue " on second road directly above the pizza shop. It used to be an Irish pub. It will be called " the all-American restaurant " - chicken wings and other things. it will have a huge seating capacity but I have no idea if there will be enough people in their target audience.

Well I think I'll wait for them to open and to check it out before I make any predictions.

It's also hard to know what their business plan is.

For all we know, they plan to book in Chinese tour buses and I think more provincial Chinese might love that kind of "exotic" food.

Of course Hooters opening on Beach Road is famous for wings and ... let me check ... "other" THINGS.

I doubt Hooters would be opening here without having done some hard core market research.

I find it hard to believe that Hooters will be a success in Pattaya.

I mean Pattaya is quite price sensitive and Hooters wont be cheap so for a start that will wipe out a lot of customers.

And the girl attraction can be had all over town and in much sexier outfits or no outfits as the case may be.

It beats me to where they are going to get "The Hooters" from......

[DipStick]

Having lived and worked legally in Thailand for nearly ten years (ago) and now working in China, for the last nine years, I find it sad that those who do not know China or the Chinese, racialistly put them down. Which is sad as it shows ignorance.

China is a hugely diverse country, because of a number of reasons, the so called Peasants now have money and they are prepared to travel. The issue is, they are insecure, these so called Peasants because they have been cut off from the rest of the world, prefer to travel in tour groups, groups that are CONTROLLED by the Thai tour lleaders, taking bus loads to certain outlets where they get huge commissions.

Chinese shout all the time,agreed, but only because there village neighbour is not in close proximity to them , insecurity sets in again.why is it that Isaan girls mainly mix with their own ?

There are so many on here who cannot and don't even bother to learn Thai, even though it's their adopted country, albeit rather shakily. Chinese won't mix. Ha I was In Hua Hin quite recently, I had a meal and there were loads of Chinese stunners in the restaurant. The usual groups who seemed not to want to be seen. I engaged them in Chinese ( yup language abilities again) and before I knew it calls were being made and a lot more Chinese girls came in and quite a party ensued. WHY ? Because they forgot their instability and relaxed. Mind you, I was not to popular with the Thai tour leader, who ended up taking an almost empty bus back to the groups hotel.

I would suggest that those who live in glass houses should........ Well you know what.

If you say so,

Yes indeed I did say so, NOW have you got the intelligence, intellect and experience to discuss, or are you another know all, with not one iota of language skills to back your stupidity. I rest my case. Edited August 3, 2015 by DipStick