Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

[webfact]

Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

BANGKOK, 3 August 2015 (NNT) - Most members of the National Reform Council have expressed their support for the extension of the Reform Road Map, which, if approved, will further delay the next general election.

NRC member Niran Pantharakit said that many of his fellow members agreed that the national reform process should be completed before the general election takes place because they are not sure if political conflicts will flare up again.

Mr. Niran said that those NRC members who feel so said that unless there is genuine confidence that there will not be any street protests or political uncertainties, the next general election should not be scheduled yet.

Under such a scenario, he said that the Reform Road Map’s deadline can surely be extended in order to ensure that Thailand will be truly peaceful.

Mr. Niran added that there are currently two ideas to back such a suggestion; the first is to ask the people of Thailand in a public referendum on the draft charter if they agree to the extension of the deadline to two years.

The second idea is for the NRC to vote to reject the draft charter in order to buy time for the implementation of all reform efforts, he said.


-- NNT 2015-08-03

[robblok]

Pro junta here, but them mentioning staying on longer if there are street protests and letting Suthep start his foundation that is certain to get a response sounds a bit fishy here. That is like setting a trap for the reds with Suthep as the bait.

I would not mind them staying on longer, but not by a setup like this that is making sure there are street protests instead of countering them.

Them staying on longer if Suthep is not in the picture and there are street protests and violence I am ok with, then its of the reds own making. But not a setup like this.

[bamnutsak]

"Reforms" will never be completed.

New sign in the window...

"Free and fair elections tomorrow"

[dageurreotype]

I think people would have more sympathy for this 'reforms before elections' if just one significant 'reform' had been already implemented.

[phoenixdoglover]

It must be the imprecision in translating Thai to English, because the NRC wants assurance there will not be any political conflict or uncertainties.

In a democracy there are always political conflicts and uncertainties. This is a primary feature of the free debate, and the fair (secret ballot) elections.

But I'm not surprised the "tools" at the NRC hold these constrained and unrealistic views. Their conception of democracy is like "Student Government". It all works great until the school administration decides otherwise. Democracy in a bottle.

As for violent protests, we can all agree they should not be tolerated. There are laws against violence. What has the NRC proposed that might improve enforcement and prosecution? On these practical matters, I must say the NRC is a bit vague.

Edited August 3, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[webfact]

Reform councilor Manoon calls for clear principles behind public referendum questionnaire

BANGKOK, 3 August 2015 (NNT) - A member of the National Reform Council has called for more clarity related to the public referendum before the corresponding questionnaire is written.

NRC member Manoon Syrian said that he has spoken with some of his fellow members regarding the principles behind a public referendum on the draft Constitution after another member, Paiboon Nititawan had suggested that the questions to be used in the process should have been written by now.

Mr. Manoon said that his discussion focused on whether or not the national reform process should be completed before the next general election.

He added that when his group proposed some changes to the draft charter to the Constitution Drafting Committee, they suggested the CDC consider holding a public referendum to ask the people’s opinion on this point.

Meanwhile, another NRC member Direk Teungfung said that he, at least, is not supporting the suggestion that the term of the National Council for Peace and Order should be extended, and worries that such an action may bring about more problems.


-- NNT 2015-08-03

[smutcakes]

I think people would have more sympathy for this 'reforms before elections' if just one significant 'reform' had been already implemented.

I agree with this. All anyone is talking about is reform this and reform that. However up to date, which is about 16 months, not one single reform has been made, and not one tangible explanation of a targeted reform is, and one the measure of completing that reform would be.

If there were some clear guidelines on what was going to be reformed, and some kind of target or measurable scale where it could be assessed the progress of reform, i think more people would be receptive of the army staying on.

However all it seems to be, even from the PDRC days is reform before election, with zero detail actually on what is to be reformed, how it would be done, and what the reformed area would look like on completion.

Reform this, Committee that etc whilst nothing happens, just seems like a way of buying more and more time.

[jayboy]

Can anybody identify even one proposed or completed reform that will advance democracy and reduce corruption? This isn't meant to be provocative.I am genuinely completely stumped.

[nong38]

We should not look at Thailand's politics and democratic meanderings, things are different here.

Not at all bothered if elections are moved further away, I dont get a vote. I think most Thais just want to get on with life and not let politics get in the way. The return of Suthep is a not a helpful sign this might trigger other people who think they are up for a bit of power to emerge and then the recent peaceful times might be coming to an end and I dont think that anyone Thai or non-Thai would want to see that.

The PM needs to distance himself from political movers and shakers which might be regretted later although dialogue should be maintained in the interests of keeping all groups on side as the country moves forward albeit slowly.

Good to see lottery tickets now reduced to 80bts and some in roads into corruption.

[bamnutsak]

Can anybody identify even one proposed or completed reform that will advance democracy and reduce corruption?

What's the rush? Reforms take time, especially when no one really understands what needs to be reformed

If you're getting paid 115,000 baht/month, and can employ five friends/family, you'd be in no hurry to get off that gravy train.

[tbthailand]

Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

well of course they do. They're a pack of anti-democrats.

Next...

[BigBadGeordie]

Most NRC members support extension.......

In other news, a poll showed that 99.99% of turkeys favoured the abolition of Christmas!

[tbthailand]

It must be the imprecision in translating Thai to English, because the NRC wants assurance there will not be any political conflict or uncertainties.

In a democracy there are always political conflicts and uncertainties. This is a primary feature of the free debate, and the fair (secret ballot) elections.

But I'm not surprised the "tools" at the NRC hold these constrained and unrealistic views. Their conception of democracy is like "Student Government". It all works great until the school administration decides otherwise. Democracy in a bottle.

As for violent protests, we can all agree they should not be tolerated. There are laws against violence. What has the NRC proposed that might improve enforcement and prosecution? On these practical matters, I must say the NRC is a bit vague.

In a democracy there are always political conflicts and uncertainties. This is a primary feature of the free debate, and the fair (secret ballot) elections.

well yes, that's normal. but as I posted above, these folks are dead-set against anything that resembles real democracy. They want the feudalistic, paternalistic, 'controlled-democracy' and technocratic bureaucracy ...

These folks have no problems with conflicts and fighting as long as it is just among themselves and as long as the rest of the Thai people / minions stay out of the way of them "ruling" the country...

Prayuth and Prem can fight, Suthep and Prayuth can fight, the NRC and the CDC can fight, ... just make sure the rest of you stay back in your rice paddies, rubber fields and village Wats and don't bother "us" because we know best... Your "student government" & "democracy in a bottle" are particularly appropriate descriptions.

[greenchair]

People just don't understand this word.

"Reform" it means to change, to improve and to implement new policies.

Reform in the police, education, government and all areas of society, is constant and never ending.

Reform before elections is the joke that the Thai have not understood.

It means no more elections because reform never stops.

"Reform before elections "

The jokes on the Thai people.

[Fat Haggis]

They couldn't agree on the colour of <deleted> so it's no surprise they are pushing for an extension and it's no surprise either.

They are being paid for dithering and if the General is as good as his word, he'd sack those who are not up to the task. 15 months down the line. And another 12 to go, and they are cow towing to Sutheps idea.

Bin the lot of them, hold elections In Jan 2015, have the 3 parties nominated as The Junta, PTP and the democrats, whoever wins, gets their finger out, and stops dragging their heels.

The junta shouid win by a landslide, and then Prayuth gets his 4 years to reform his little heart away. Simple as that.

[heybruce]

Basically the OP is saying is that most NRC members support staying in power longer. What a surprise.

Regarding reforms, I'm still waiting for the NRC to reform government so that it is transparent, bans conflicts of interest and requires regular, detailed financial disclosures from everyone in a position to benefit from corruption. I'm expecting a very long wait.

[brucec64]

No but I can clearly identify two critical areas that will not be reformed. The police and judicial reform is off the table. Without a clear rule of law, any other reforms are doomed to fail.

[Eric Loh]

Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

well of course they do. They're a pack of anti-democrats.

Next...

To be exact, the NRC is stacked up to the rafters with most of the 40 former appointed anti-Thaksin senators and PDRC sympathizers. They will follow the drum beat of their supreme leader Sutherp and delay the election in 'guise of reform before election by continuous re-drafting of the constitution. Prayuth should be proud of them.

[laocowboy2]

And in the meantime the economy is going down the toilet. The current government does not have an (economic) clue. Things are quietly deteriorating and nothing is being done.

[Down the rabbit hole]

I think people would have more sympathy for this 'reforms before elections' if just one significant 'reform' had been already implemented.

I agree with this. All anyone is talking about is reform this and reform that. However up to date, which is about 16 months, not one single reform has been made, and not one tangible explanation of a targeted reform is, and one the measure of completing that reform would be.

If there were some clear guidelines on what was going to be reformed, and some kind of target or measurable scale where it could be assessed the progress of reform, i think more people would be receptive of the army staying on.

However all it seems to be, even from the PDRC days is reform before election, with zero detail actually on what is to be reformed, how it would be done, and what the reformed area would look like on completion.

Reform this, Committee that etc whilst nothing happens, just seems like a way of buying more and more time.

I. like a lot of people, am beginning to suspect that 'reform' means changing the voting system so the red kwai never ever get to win an election again.

[Down the rabbit hole]

And in the meantime the economy is going down the toilet. The current government does not have an (economic) clue. Things are quietly deteriorating and nothing is being done.

If the economy does indeed decline further, it's Londo to a brick that the people who will hurt most are already poor. Thus the disenfranchisement of the less well-off will continue (though I'm sure the govt isn't wilfully allowing toe economy to fall to bits).

The kleptocracy have enough of the Thai people's money to weather the storm.

[Down the rabbit hole]

Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

well of course they do. They're a pack of anti-democrats.

Next...

To be exact, the NRC is stacked up to the rafters with most of the 40 former appointed anti-Thaksin senators and PDRC sympathizers. They will follow the drum beat of their supreme leader Sutherp and delay the election in 'guise of reform before election by continuous re-drafting of the constitution. Prayuth should be proud of them.

I wonder at what point the international community will realise they've been lied to and that the 'soldier with a democratic heart' is anything but - as many in Thailand saw very quickly, I wonder what will happen when when they do.

Or, considering the aviation, fishing and trafficking problems, perhaps they realise it already. Which is the chicken and which is the egg?

Edited August 3, 2015 by Down the rabbit hole

[Down the rabbit hole]

No but I can clearly identify two critical areas that will not be reformed. The police and judicial reform is off the table. Without a clear rule of law, any other reforms are doomed to fail.

So the Thai police and the judiciary provide clear rule of law? That's a thought to grapple with.

[brucec64]

No but I can clearly identify two critical areas that will not be reformed. The police and judicial reform is off the table. Without a clear rule of law, any other reforms are doomed to fail.

So the Thai police and the judiciary provide clear rule of law? That's a thought to grapple with.

They don't even come close. They are the first areas that require drastic reform or corruption can never be rooted out.

[Bob12345]

Most NRC members support extension of Reform Road Map deadline

well of course they do. They're a pack of anti-democrats.

Next...

To be exact, the NRC is stacked up to the rafters with most of the 40 former appointed anti-Thaksin senators and PDRC sympathizers. They will follow the drum beat of their supreme leader Sutherp and delay the election in 'guise of reform before election by continuous re-drafting of the constitution. Prayuth should be proud of them.

I wonder at what point the international community will realise they've been lied to and that the 'soldier with a democratic heart' is anything but - as many in Thailand saw very quickly, I wonder what will happen when when they do.

Or, considering the aviation, fishing and trafficking problems, perhaps they realise it already. Which is the chicken and which is the egg?

The international community realised this long ago already which explains why they are all turning their backs to the junta (only china, north korea, and russia seem to still support them).

The big question is when the Thai people start realizing that the elite has been raping the country for ages and are still doing it. At some point the average Thai will demand to be able to profit from their own country and will demand to be heard (their votes being respected).

[Bob12345]

Pro junta here, but them mentioning staying on longer if there are street protests and letting Suthep start his foundation that is certain to get a response sounds a bit fishy here. That is like setting a trap for the reds with Suthep as the bait.

I would not mind them staying on longer, but not by a setup like this that is making sure there are street protests instead of countering them.

Them staying on longer if Suthep is not in the picture and there are street protests and violence I am ok with, then its of the reds own making. But not a setup like this.

Who would have thought that the junta/elite would use tricks like this to stay in power???

You would almost start thinking they also conspired street protests earlier to get the army out to overthrow the government. But of course that was not the case and the army only stepped in to fight the amnesty bill, ahum, i meant street violence, ahum, i meant corruption... ahum... never mind.

Similer things happened in Thailand's past, but of course this coup is different... Right?

[millwall_fan]

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term without a debate and how can there be a debate without an opposition?

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term when there was no referendum on having the junta in the first place?

The only solution is to hold free and fair elections as soon as possible with the army guaranteeing that the victors be allowed to govern democratically without street thugs (Suthep) being allowed to undermine it.

The army should become the guardian of democracy, not its destroyer.

[Down the rabbit hole]

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term without a debate and how can there be a debate without an opposition?

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term when there was no referendum on having the junta in the first place?

The only solution is to hold free and fair elections as soon as possible with the army guaranteeing that the victors be allowed to govern democratically without street thugs (Suthep) being allowed to undermine it.

The army should become the guardian of democracy, not its destroyer.

Fully agree with that. Not sure how likely it is though, I suspect a civil war is the only way to sort out the problems Thailand has.

It's been a long time coming but I think I saw the beginnings of an awakening of the phrae in 2010. Been a bit slow, I think we all know the reason(s) for that,

[Eric Loh]

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term without a debate and how can there be a debate without an opposition?

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term when there was no referendum on having the junta in the first place?

The only solution is to hold free and fair elections as soon as possible with the army guaranteeing that the victors be allowed to govern democratically without street thugs (Suthep) being allowed to undermine it.

The army should become the guardian of democracy, not its destroyer.

Fully agree with that. Not sure how likely it is though, I suspect a civil war is the only way to sort out the problems Thailand has.

It's been a long time coming but I think I saw the beginnings of an awakening of the phrae in 2010. Been a bit slow, I think we all know the reason(s) for that,

The awakening of the phrae started back in 2001 when Thaksin showed them that they do have a voice to decide their future. The genie is out of the bottle and will be hard to bottle it back if ever there is a free election. Now the junta and their establishment partners are trying to re-write the rules to make sure the phrae will be disadvantage in their choices and to give a better chance for their establishment politicians to tilt the balance and perhaps win the election. Basically create an non-level playing field to win as the will never win in a fair election.

[millwall_fan]

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term without a debate and how can there be a debate without an opposition?

How can there be a referendum on extending the junta's term when there was no referendum on having the junta in the first place?

The only solution is to hold free and fair elections as soon as possible with the army guaranteeing that the victors be allowed to govern democratically without street thugs (Suthep) being allowed to undermine it.

The army should become the guardian of democracy, not its destroyer.

Fully agree with that. Not sure how likely it is though, I suspect a civil war is the only way to sort out the problems Thailand has.

It's been a long time coming but I think I saw the beginnings of an awakening of the phrae in 2010. Been a bit slow, I think we all know the reason(s) for that,

The awakening of the phrae started back in 2001 when Thaksin showed them that they do have a voice to decide their future. The genie is out of the bottle and will be hard to bottle it back if ever there is a free election. Now the junta and their establishment partners are trying to re-write the rules to make sure the phrae will be disadvantage in their choices and to give a better chance for their establishment politicians to tilt the balance and perhaps win the election. Basically create an non-level playing field to win as the will never win in a fair election.

your comment is spot on.