Back Pain - what next?

[northernphil]

A lot of good advice here , I came to LOS when I was 58 that would be 10 years ago. For a nearly 15 years before getting here I was a window cleaner , up and down ladders carrying buckets of water all day , walking along walls etc. My neck now clicks when I move my head from side to side. A doctor at Overbrook Hosp. in C/Rai looked at my X-ray of my neck and asked what I did for a living . After telling him he said that was what caused the prob. The verts. in my neck were not as they should be , live with it. As for my back .......same thing ,stopped work at 58 yo and now sit in a chair at pc. Sit on bike or in car and go out to eat and sit there too. But between 58 and 68 age catches up. Once a fortnight I have a very good massage and after an hour I can once again touch my toes but after 4 days back to the same. Better a few probs than cleaning windows in the snow with ice forming in the bucket.

[THAIPHUKET]

Stop fumbling around . Make a consultancy appointment with Dr Wicharn, the only back-spine specialist in Thailand. BNH is nearby you. I was his patient and will vouch for him. I think he does not charge for consultancy. X-Ray are very cheap.

Medication request a prescription (Outside pharmacy!)

https://www.bnhhospital.com/en/find_doctor/detail/256

https://www.bnhhospital.com/en/medical_services/detail/Spine-Centre

[lgking]

There is a direct correlation between back pain and alcohol consumption. Particularly if the pain is moving around. The liver is a HUGE organ and encompasses some of the back. I am not saying this is your problem, but if you are a regular alcohol consumer, try cleaning up for 30-60 days and see what happens.

I have lived with cronic back pain since 1968. Regular daily vigorous exercise and weight training are also part of my regime to keep the devil from my door.

Doctors are worthless, especially if they resort to giving you 'meds' as their solution (to a symptom). And 'surgery' is the ultimate 'scam'. You caused it...you can fix it. Nobody knows more about YOUR body than you.

Edited August 6, 2015 by lgking

[jerome2]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.

[jerome2]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.

one leg longer tha the other

[grumpyoldman]

Get yourself an inversion table. These work wonders for your back.

Also do some back strengthening excersizes such as lat pull downs, bent over rows, deadlifts etc.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=inversion+table&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI8azQgsWTxwIVxpCOCh0ahAQm&biw=1366&bih=643#imgrc=_

I second this except the one I have breaks at the knees so as to not stretch the ligaments in knees and ankles.

Suffered horrible lower back disc problems, later developed pinched nerves in my neck which would numb my arm. Taking some muscle relaxants, a glass of wine (or two) and then hanging upside down, my spine would pop in both my lower back and my neck. Three to four times a week of this for a couple months and done, all went away. I don't even use the thing anymore so if you want to buy it, we can ship it to you (I'm in Phuket).

Chriropracter Richard Cracknell (RIP), built it for me, I paid 18,000 five years ago, would let it go for 9,000.

[csabo]

my advice might be useless to you, but in the last 7 years, i have been doing yoga a lot, and it has really alleviated my lower back pain. i remember times 8 or 10 years ago when i could not even put on my shoes much less tie them, because of agony caused by my back. evidently the nearly constant stretching of the hamstrings in many yoga poses relieves the pull on one's back.

Second for yoga. Skip the quacks. Search youtube "yoga for back pain", choose and instructor you like and start. I had excruciating middle back pain that was brought under control 3 days after starting yoga stretching for about 15 minutes a day. Start today and come back in a few days and let us know if it helped.

[SOTIRIOS]

....'scoliosis' is a 'buzz word'.....

...everybody has scoliosis to some degree....so generally, it means nothing...it is just meant to sound like something...

....Dr Joseph Sarno (if I recall).....'99% of all back pain is in the mind'....some trauma in the past that you have not let go of...

...so do some 'soul searching'.....

...diet....deficiency....do play a role too.....

...if you are taking...alcohol.....other drugs.....muscle relaxants...you are setting yourself up for prolonged suffering...

...and of course....exercise does help.....yoga.....absolutely....

.....'heal yourself'.....and start sending me your money !!!

[misterphil]

http://spinefitness.ibuy.co.th/362331/English+Page+/

[frank0424]

Drinking lots of good clean water is always a good start

Keep the body hydrated

[oztaurus]

my advice might be useless to you, but in the last 7 years, i have been doing yoga a lot, and it has really alleviated my lower back pain. i remember times 8 or 10 years ago when i could not even put on my shoes much less tie them, because of agony caused by my back. evidently the nearly constant stretching of the hamstrings in many yoga poses relieves the pull on one's back.

good advice.. I think chiros and osteopaths are expensive & useless.. a good oil massage may help.. gentle yoga may help to realign your spine..

Good advice in principle, but there is yoga and there is therapeutic yoga with someone who knows and understands what they are doing - you will need private lessons for sure, not group classes, so it will still not be cheap. Talk to the teacher in depth about their experience and how they would structure a program for you before you commit to anything.

I have found a great teacher on Samui who is really helping with techniques to strengthen and align my body, retraining lazy muscles from 35 years of compensating for old injuries.

Edit: Plus I have found the Tiger Balm patches really useful for helping to work through the pain as I learn the techniques to support my back.

Edited August 6, 2015 by oztaurus

[Jonmarleesco]

I've had a couple of back problems for many years. The same? Likely not, but similar. I eventually consulted a chiropractor over a longstanding lower back issue, vertebrae linked. I spent a few weeks visiting him, but what ultimately worked - on his advice - were ab exercises.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

yoga

[kennyro]

A scenar or a DiaDens PCM machine works like magic. I don't know if you will find one in Thailand but easily ordered from the net. Many countries (I am Australian) have clinics set up, but it is easier and more convenient to treat youself. You will see when you search they were invented for Russian astronauts and either cure or relieve many problems.

[Tarteso]

.The Humidity in Thailand is a factor to consider , bones and joints suffer .

[jimmiejackson]

Thanks all for the advice! I appreciate it.

Yoga is probably a good idea. Actually I tried yoga for about a year straight before I ever had any chiropractic treatments (couldn't afford it back then) and it worked to an extent, but not so far as to fix the issue.

As for strengthening exercises, I would say my back is pretty strong - I can deadlift well over 400lb. The pain has lessened compared to when I wasn't strength training but it certainly hasn't gone away.

The inversion table sounds interesting but I would need to look into it in more detail.

Thanks for all the offers of help, I'm sure there's many of us that kind find an affinity in the misery of constant back pain!

For the time being, I've booked an appointment with UK trained Osteopath. Phil Hambly at the Osteopath Center (it is near Phayathai) as he said he may be able to assist after I emailed him with details. Who knows? At least he will spend an entire hour with me one on one for the 1700 Baht first consultation so maybe I'll get to learn something if nothing else.

Will report back!

If nothing comes of it then I guess going to a Spine specialist as suggested may the be best next step.

[SheungWan]

When one reports back pain every other person with similar comes out and recommends this and that person to solve your problems. I spent a lot of money visiting various practitioners and they all turned out to be useless at dealing with chronic conditions. After the doctor and after the physiotherapist I attended an NHS 3 month weekly class for the chronically afflicted. What did we do? Just a series of exercises week after week to strengthen the back. It worked because the tendency of all with back pain is to grind to a halt. So now I visit the gym regularly and manage the situation myself. Occasionally have problems and recourse to the pain killers, but that's it. BTW, while in rehabilitation swimming is OK but not breast stroke, cycling also a problem as the back not straight. OK for both once recovered but take it easy and avoid surgery if you can.

[rightlineman]

I would also try Yoga to eliminate the pain. I ended up with back problems from work. The person who recommended the shower exercise, that can be done anywhere, called the rag doll, prayer fashion over the head, and on the way down shake the body a little, to relax every muscle, etc. Listen to your body as you do these not to over do it, each time. I can also add, a few you can do laying in bed, how's that sound. Knee's bent, let them fall left and right for 20 sec each.- 3 times. Shoulders and upper back stay flat on the bed, again listen to your body, don't go to far. If your able, after a while, inter-weave your leg around the opposite one, to where your foot ends up under your calf. Whatever leg you go around, that's the way you lower your knee. Next lay in a cross fashion, arms spread straight out from shoulders, legs straight. Now raise one leg to belly button height (if possible). Eventually your body will give way.....Listen. Let what ever leg you brought up, fall across the body, to the opposite side, ONLY to where

it can go on its own and you are able to bring it back up and back down. Again Shoulders and upper back stay flat on bed or floor. So do both side's, belly button high, if possible. This is a three position move, because after the two legs go to the belly button, your next challenge is raising

your leg to you tit area, and performing the same sideways drop of the leg. The third challenge is to work your way up to lifting your leg up to where you are looking at your foot and dropping it to your hand, that's straight out from your shoulder. You'll be amazed with everyday 20 sec. x 2, times 3, how fast your body will give way, to where you will actually be able to grab that foot and relax. I'm 66 and that for me is something I do for fun, pretty much everyday, but got rid of Sciatica, back pain with yoga. You think 50's and 60's are old for this, what are you going to do when and if your pushing 80. These are just simple moves and you can look for other to try but take it slow.......

Ten years ago, as usual I came to Thailand for 6 months, now I live here. Had back problems in America, doctor told me I had Arthritis in my spine, after $450 of X-Rays......what?? Sister, who works in same large clinic said, you need to get a MRI, an Epidural shot, like my sister in law

had. Which I'm sure they would have signed me up. OK, was only a few weeks from going to Thailand so, girlfriend asked around and ended up

going to Hiew Chiew Hospital, told them I was maybe, looking at an MRI and Epidural shot for my back problem and the Orthopedic Doctor, laughed at me, told me to sit down, lifted my legs etc, prescribed ultrasound, heating bed, and traction for 9 days straight W/ muscle relaxer's, $258.

These doctors in Thailand have been educated around the world and if not taught by doctors educated in a foreign country. Tell me doctors back

home don't f#*k up and I will call you a liar...........Hope this helps

[rightlineman]

Thanks all for the advice! I appreciate it.

Yoga is probably a good idea. Actually I tried yoga for about a year straight before I ever had any chiropractic treatments (couldn't afford it back then) and it worked to an extent, but not so far as to fix the issue.

As for strengthening exercises, I would say my back is pretty strong - I can deadlift well over 400lb. The pain has lessened compared to when I wasn't strength training but it certainly hasn't gone away.

The inversion table sounds interesting but I would need to look into it in more detail.

Thanks for all the offers of help, I'm sure there's many of us that kind find an affinity in the misery of constant back pain!

For the time being, I've booked an appointment with UK trained Osteopath. Phil Hambly at the Osteopath Center (it is near Phayathai) as he said he may be able to assist after I emailed him with details. Who knows? At least he will spend an entire hour with me one on one for the 1700 Baht first consultation so maybe I'll get to learn something if nothing else.

Will report back!

If nothing comes of it then I guess going to a Spine specialist as suggested may the be best next step.

WOW, something doesn't add up, if you have a strong back, what's the problem, if this doctor says to you, "its great your dead lifting 400lbs",

I'd start to wonder, like I am already.............

[technologybytes]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.

OK... you are correct. Now that I read it again with your translation it actually makes sense now.

[grumpyoldman]

I've had a couple of back problems for many years. The same? Likely not, but similar. I eventually consulted a chiropractor over a longstanding lower back issue, vertebrae linked. I spent a few weeks visiting him, but what ultimately worked - on his advice - were ab exercises.

This is correct, also strong hamstrings. Once had a professional sports trainer tell me back problems were often due to weaknesses in abs and hamstrings as they pull on the lower back region. Proper posture while standing or sitting is important also. Stomach in chest out soldier.

[The Deerhunter]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.

one leg longer tha the other

Legs very rarely grow, one longer than the other. A severe (motorcycle usually) accident in youth with disruption of growth in one leg will do it. But 90% of short legs are caused by muscular imbalance in the lower back, glutes (bum muscles) and quads (front of thighs, twisting the pelvis and drawing up one leg. This is exceedingly common and very obvious to others but usually not the sufferer. I have photographed it many times to show sufferers who did not believe me. Fix these muscular imbalances & the short leg grows longer in one hour. None of which is likely to be bothering our friend who mainly has neck problems (but probably with compensations on through the rest of his back as well.) BTW. For shoe raise to work, it has to be a heel not the sole or the ankle just articulates further to compensate. Get onto that SLM Myotherapy Australia website, self help section & get stuck into the exercises that he recommends. Several posters have mentioned exercises working for them. Exercise & massages could deal to it. Surgery is the last step. Steroid injections the second - to last step. Go there & you cannot go back. Exhaust everything else first.

Edited August 7, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[thailand49]

Coming from someone who has back problems for over 40 years, you indicated you are in Bangkok and you indicated that you had a diagnoses but you do not indicate what the hospital or Doctor recommended.

What I can tell you is all the treatment you have used are only temporary I know I done them all and they like you said are all temporary! From your post I get that you have not done any or enough research especially in the general area of Backs. Doing this would give you a lot of information as to how to move forward instead of listening to others using these temporary treatment. From my own experiences with Hospitals in Thailand or Bangkok I doubt you will find a hospital that doesn't want to just cut you open and put a bumper in you.

I agree with a number of people on the posting that you need to spend some to get the proper information and that is to go home and see a specialist. I personally like using Sport medicine clinics because they believe using non-surgery physical therapy. A number of years ago I was told to see a specialize called Physiologist, it was the best thing i ever done in my life

Personally... go home and get the right answer otherwise you would be better getting a good two hour Thai massage. Having back problem is for life you got to work everyday to keep it away meaning you got to exercise pills are only temporary too! Personally, if you can't see your belt you going to have a problem. Good luck

Edited August 8, 2015 by thailand49

[AZBill]

I have the same condition and unfortunately have had a similar experience in trying to find any long term relief. My wife is a massage therapist here in the U.S. and I've found a Thai massage once a week with moderate pressure helps as much as anything. Also found yoga helps. Good luck!

[Sheryl]

The difficulty with a thread like this is that all back pain is not the same, even when in the same location and feeling the same. So it does not follow that because someone describes pain similiar to what someone else experienced, that what worked for one will work for the other.

Back pain can have many different causes, and sometimes no cause can be identified.

Conservative measures (stretches, exercises, anti-inflammatories, heating pads, massage etc) make good sense if the pain is just occasional, or if it is of recent onset. But pain that is continuous (i.e. every day, though severity may flunctuate) and lasting many months or years is a whole different matter and warrants detailed investigations by a spinal specialist, with treatment according to the underlying cause.

Spinal stenosis is a very specific condition in which there is insufficient space in the spinal column for nerves to exit, putting direct pressure onto the nerves. The severity of the pain will depend on the degree of nerve impingement (and certain activities/postures will aggravate it). However stenosis will tend to worsen with age.

While various measures may help reduce pain due to spinal stenosis/make it more bearable, the only cure is surgery to create sufficient space for the nerves to remove the impingement. There are a variety of surgical approaches possible depending on the individual spine. And of course the patient's risk profile for surgery has to be considered.

[Buckeye21]

The inversion table has really helped me stretch out and recover from golf quicker.