Australia admits refugee turn-back

[pokerface1]

Pay the smugglers and more and more will come.....Once the sea is full of boats headed towards Australia then the Government will claim we are being invaded and launch a missile attack to sink all the boats.

Please note that the OP specifically says "....we have negotiated their return to Vietnam."

Pushing people back out to sea is very different than returning them, as is selling them.

Negotiated = paid.

Australia has been paing the crew of boats to return. Thus ensuring all traffickers to bring as many boats as possible to get a nice payday for agreeing to turn back.

The reasons Australia wanted the boats stopped was not to stop the refugees but because so many where dying at sea. So paying these smugglers is increasing the boats thus more people being put in danger.

It is a lie to say they have stopped the boats, they havent, they have simply stopped the boats landing in Oz. but that doesnt mean the boats have stopped. Total hypocracy to say the boats put many in danger then give crew a monetary incentive to bring more boats.

[meltingpot2015]

Not many Refugees in Australia. See pic:

Edited August 8, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Linky]

Please note that the OP specifically says "....we have negotiated their return to Vietnam."

Pushing people back out to sea is very different than returning them, as is selling them.

Negotiated = paid.

Australia has been paing the crew of boats to return. Thus ensuring all traffickers to bring as many boats as possible to get a nice payday for agreeing to turn back.

The reasons Australia wanted the boats stopped was not to stop the refugees but because so many where dying at sea. So paying these smugglers is increasing the boats thus more people being put in danger.

It is a lie to say they have stopped the boats, they havent, they have simply stopped the boats landing in Oz. but that doesnt mean the boats have stopped. Total hypocracy to say the boats put many in danger then give crew a monetary incentive to bring more boats.

What a load of horseshit. Where did you get this crap from. I happen to know from inside sources that there is no payment given to people smugglers.
All they get is food and in many cases lifejackets.

If you are not on the intercepting boat then you dont know. I believe the many reports. The fact the PM has repeatedly refused to deny it and came perilously close to accidently admitting it speaks volumes.

I think the PM of Australia has more right to decide on who comes into Australia than you Linky...

Well not really, he cant decide anything, laws must be passed.

But that has nothing to do with the argument. It is against international law, which australia is a signatory to, to pay people smugglers to turn the boats around. He is making it more lucrative for people smugglers to keep smuggling knowing the govt will pay out.

Which is why the govt passed laws to stop anybody involved in offsore processing from speaking out against the treatment of refugees. Even doctors are not allowed to report on abuses.

The children overboard episode was proof a PM does not have more of a right to decide than the public, which I am one, because it was a significant reason little Johnny Howard not only lost govt but even lost his seat.

[Happy Grumpy]

and where a re voices of all TVF Aussies, who blamed Thailand for turning back Rohingya boats?

please comment!

Turning back?

Or towing them out to the ocean, removing all food and water, removing all engines, then setting them afloat with no means of survival and leaving them there to die?

Thai navy, December 2008 to 1000 men, women and children.

[simple1]

<snip>

But that has nothing to do with the argument. It is against international law, which australia is a signatory to,

FYI Oz government has made it absolutely clear it is no longer bound to the UN Refugee Conventions it signed and ratified e.g. PNG Solution. In fact the previous Immi Minister made the statement during Parliamentary Question time.

[meltingpot2015]

Here's what happened:

03 August 2014 -

Richard Marles (shadow immigration minister) makes vocal attack on Scott Morrisons behaviour highlighting that Scott Morrison "has lost control of his Portfolio":

https://youtu.be/WYJJiGoFul0 - see 0:40min onwards.

The video above is from the main article: https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/scott-morrison-madness-as-usual,6734

In December 2014, the Australian Senate passed a bill Migration and Maritime Powers Legislation Amendment (Resolving the Asylum Legacy Caseload) Bill 2014.

See quote below about the purpose (and intent?) of that bill: (Full story available here)

The new law gives Immigration Minister Scott Morrison unheard-of powers over the fates of asylum seekers and refugees, allowing him to turn back boats with impunity, return asylum seekers to their home countries even if they face torture, and removes all references to the 1951 Refugee Convention, the defining document for nation-states dealing with refugees which Australia helped write, from Australian law. With regards to asylum seekers and refugees, Australia now effectively operates entirely outside international law.

In December 2014 - Prime Minter Abbott announces cabinet reshuffle, sacking David Johnson from the defence role, putting Kevin Andrews (Social Services Minister) in his place, and Scott Morrison then takes up Social Services, Peter Dutton takes up the Immigration and Border Protection Portfolio.

With this chain of events its no wonder Scott Morrison is no longer immigration minister. He was promoted/demoted to the role of Social Services Minister. Although on paper he was "promoted", Morrison himself was upset that he didn't get the defence minister role in the cabinet reshuffle.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[steven100]

Please note that the OP specifically says "....we have negotiated their return to Vietnam."

Pushing people back out to sea is very different than returning them, as is selling them.

Negotiated = paid.

Australia has been paing the crew of boats to return. Thus ensuring all traffickers to bring as many boats as possible to get a nice payday for agreeing to turn back.

The reasons Australia wanted the boats stopped was not to stop the refugees but because so many where dying at sea. So paying these smugglers is increasing the boats thus more people being put in danger.

It is a lie to say they have stopped the boats, they havent, they have simply stopped the boats landing in Oz. but that doesnt mean the boats have stopped. Total hypocracy to say the boats put many in danger then give crew a monetary incentive to bring more boats.

Hi Linky, Australia has done a good job to stop the influx of illegal boat people.

Thailand has a similar stance on any illegal immigrants wherever they are from ...

If other countries had the same balls as Australia & Thailand then they wouldn't be in such a mess when it comes to illegal immigrants.

People smuggling is illegal .... If boat people wish to seek refugee status in another country then they should enter by the correct means and not pay a people smuggler.

Well done Australia !! you have stopped the illegal immigrants paying the smugglers.

Well done Thailand. Send the Rohingya's back ..

[pokerface1]

Politicians are not accountable for the things they do when it comes to staying in power. They blatantly break promises time and time again, the same goes for signing any international agreement. All agreement have a use by date and if the Australian government figures the time is up then so be it.

The refugees trying to arrive by boat don't care about due process or what the government and the people think about there arrival on our shores.I suspect that most refugees are criminals on the run from there own countries or the relatives of previous boat arrivals who made it here. Oh the other hand they may just be greedy in there outlook for a better life style to there fellow countrymen. In any case they are desperate people who do desperate thing for unknown reasons. As far as the smugglers are concerned they are desperate people prepare to do desperate thing for known reasons $$$$ there's not much difference between the smuggler and his cargo.

Avoid drowning at sea in a leaky boat by following due process or do you have some deep dark secret to hide?

[steven100]

Not many Refugees in Australia. See pic:

refugee_population_distribution.png

Refugees are quite welcome to enter Australia through the correct channels ....

People Smuggling is illegal ...

[Scott]

Please note that the OP specifically says "....we have negotiated their return to Vietnam."

Pushing people back out to sea is very different than returning them, as is selling them.

Negotiated = paid.

Australia has been paing the crew of boats to return. Thus ensuring all traffickers to bring as many boats as possible to get a nice payday for agreeing to turn back.

The reasons Australia wanted the boats stopped was not to stop the refugees but because so many where dying at sea. So paying these smugglers is increasing the boats thus more people being put in danger.

It is a lie to say they have stopped the boats, they havent, they have simply stopped the boats landing in Oz. but that doesnt mean the boats have stopped. Total hypocracy to say the boats put many in danger then give crew a monetary incentive to bring more boats.

Hi Linky, Australia has done a good job to stop the influx of illegal boat people.

Thailand has a similar stance on any illegal immigrants wherever they are from ...

If other countries had the same balls as Australia & Thailand then they wouldn't be in such a mess when it comes to illegal immigrants.

People smuggling is illegal .... If boat people wish to seek refugee status in another country then they should enter by the correct means and not pay a people smuggler.

Well done Australia !! you have stopped the illegal immigrants paying the smugglers.

Well done Thailand. Send the Rohingya's back ..

Thailand has never ratified the conventions and obligations on refugees. Australia has. The comparisons are not on an equal footing.

Edit: Inflammatory post also removed.

[pokerface1]

If the smugglers were paid to deliver barrels of nuclear waste to Australia instead of refugees, which of the following actions do you think the government would take? Attack the boats to kill the smugglers and pollute our seas with nuclear waste

or

Take delivery of the waste and store as far away from Canberra as possible

or

Pay the smugglers double to take it back to where it came from.

or

Take delivery secretively and divide it up into small parcels to be dispersed throughout the country.

Your view of the Australian governments profile is at stake here so please consider carefully

[meltingpot2015]

Not many Refugees in Australia. See pic:

refugee_population_distribution.png

Refugees are quite welcome to enter Australia through the correct channels ....

People Smuggling is illegal ...

That picture showed refugee numbers (in most cases) up until 31 December 2013. See:

http://www.asrc.org.au/resources/statistics/world-statistics/#1409812498-1-87

I was highlighting (regardless of the mode of arrival), that there are not many refugees in Australia anyway, when compared to other countries.

Refugees are quite welcome to enter Australia through the correct channels ....

Before the 'stop the boats' policy, there has been consistently (except for the year 2011-2012) more refugee status grants to offshore asylum seekers, as opposed to onshore. So there were more refugees arriving by boat.

People Smuggling is illegal ...

So is paying people smugglers. For a more innovative approach see:

http://www.economist.com/node/4488653

Kindly educate yourself by having a look at:

Refugees: Why seeking asylum is legal and Australia's policies are not By Jane McAdam

Here's an extract from the book:

"Finally, most people who have been prosecuted for people smuggling in Australia are not the criminal masterminds behind the schemes, but rather poor indonesian fisherman who crew the boats.".

Enough said.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[meltingpot2015]

Here's something that a company would say when you ask them something unsavory:

we are not in a position to describe our internal process to external parties

Here is something Scott Morrison would say when asked something unsavory:

I don't discuss those sorts of operational matters..

Also see:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/no-comment-government-silent-over-fate-of-asylum-seekers-20131109-2x8a1.html

http://www.brw.com.au/p/leadership/operational_matters_right_good_enough_ElZFD6B5J7bUINw9BQetZM

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Throatwobbler]

Reading this it is easy to see why most people do not use Thaivisa. The posters on here are some of the worst people in the world.

[meltingpot2015]

It costs the Australian Government more Dollors to process boat arrivals.

The australian resources boom is over.

Now we have 'stop the boats'.

[simple1]

<snip>

That picture showed refugee numbers (in most cases) up until 31 December 2013. See:

http://www.asrc.org.au/resources/statistics/world-statistics/#1409812498-1-87

I was highlighting (regardless of the mode of arrival), that there are not many refugees in Australia anyway, when compared to other countries.

The numbers in the graphic are way out of date. As an example Turkey is now hosting 1.7 million refugees. As a consequence it's now estimated new refugees in Turkey, (if peace is not reached in Syria and Iraq) will be in limbo for at least eight years before the assessment process even commences, thereby contributing to the push factor. This year Germany is expecting 400,000 refugees entering to claim asylum.

[meltingpot2015]

So the latest figures for Turkey and the increases in Germany would make Australia's numbers like a drop in the ocean.

It dosen't look like AUs is increasing the Onshore (those arriving by plane) refugee grant rate either. 2775 in 2013-2014, a measly 2750 planned for 2014-2015. see:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1415/RefugeeResettlement#_Toc410727190

Since the proposed grant rate for offshore (boat arrivals) is also down (in comparison to 2013-2014), AUS is clearly shifting the burden to other countries.

Those having their refugee claim assessed will be waiting longer, because there is a limit on the refugee visas granted per year.

In 2013-2014, Aus has only granted 297 Refugee visas to Syrians. (those of Syrian Birth)

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015