Denied Visa to UK

[Dumbastheycome]

US citzens need a visa to enter the UK????Gobsmacked I is !

[7by7]

<snip>

Some people have said it looks suspicious that you applied for the visa immediately after the marriage. I don't entirely agree. I think (and hope) it is a common occurrence to submit the visa application shortly after marriage in the hope of living together in the UK shortly after. The issue is if the legal marriage is the only evidence of your relationship.

Arjunadawn, I totally agree with the above.

The issue isn't that you submitted your application immediately after registering your marriage; the issue is that you did not provide any evidence of the five year relationship leading up to that marriage!

I don't mean a written statement from you confirming this; why would the ECO believe that? I mean hard evidence such as letters, bills etc. addressed to each or both of you at the same address covering a substantial time period; two years at least I suggest..

BTW, all non EEA nationals entering the UK have to satisfy exactly the same requirements of the immigration rules for the category they wish to enter under, whether they be American, Thai, whatever.

The only difference is that those entering as tourists or to visit friends or family (and some other categories), for 6 months or less who are nationals of some countries, including the USA, do not have to obtain a standard visit visa in advance of their travel.

They can, however, still be refused entry to the UK upon arrival if immigration believe that they do not satisfy the requirements of the rules for a visitor; e.g. they intend to work, study, seek NHS treatment, stay longer than 6 months on one visit or more than 6 months out of 12 on repeat visits.

This refusal is on record and available to any immigration officer anywhere in the UK (and any ECO anywhere in the world). Which means were you to do nothing and simply turn up at a UK port of entry without a valid visa expecting to be allowed in as a visitor then you may very well be questioned and if you do not satisfy immigration that you are a genuine visitor and do not intend to remain in the UK for more than 6 months then you could be refused entry!

Edited August 9, 2015 by 7by7

[smotherb]

I am amazed to see so many of you, including the OP, agree that a marriage one day before application is suspicious. They were married before the application; does how long really matter? Doesn't the fact they are married make you think they may want to live together?

Furthermore, he is an American, and as stated, can stay up to six months in the UK without any visa; so why would he apply for a visa under false pretenses? As an American his request for a longer stay visa to based upon his spouse's student visa after that six month period would certainly be approved.

However, we are talking post 9/11 government approvals; the US is overly cautious too.

Pasted below are my results for asking if I need a visa to go to the UK at https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/family

Check if you need a UK visa

You’ll need a visa to join your family or partner in the UK for a long stay

You don’t need a visa if you’re visiting family or a partner for 6 months or less.

The visa you apply for depends on your family member’s situation.

They’re settled in the UK

Apply for a ‘family of a settled person’ visa if your family member or partner is a British citizen or they’re from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and settled in the UK.

They’re working or studying in the UK

You may be able to apply as a ‘dependant’ of your family member’s visa category if they’re from outside the EEA and they’re working or studying in the UK.

They’re from the EEA

Apply for a family permit to join your family or partner for a short or long stay if they’re living in the UK.

Previous answers Start again What passport or travel document do you have? USA Change answer to "What passport or travel document do you have?" What are you coming to the UK to do? Join partner or family for a long stay Change answer to "What are you coming to the UK to do?"

Last updated: 4 August 2015

Is there anything wrong with this page?

[7by7]

A little off-topic, but your application was submitted a few working days after my wife's (the appointment was 17th July), and she is still awaiting a decision. I guess it's not an absolute first-in-first-out queue of processing, with a little natural variance...

Different visa category, so yes, there will be a difference in processing times. Ajunadawn applied for a non settlement visa, and these do tend to be processed more quickly than settlement ones.

[meltingpot2015]

You can check visa requirements for each passport holders of each country here:

https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y

It asks you the purpose of visit. e.g. tourist, work, study, etc.

There is an option: join your family or partner in the UK for a long stay.

For this purpose it says:

You’ll need a visa to join your family or partner in the UK for a long stay
You don’t need a visa if you’re visiting family or a partner for 6 months or less.

The visa you apply for depends on your family member’s situation.

couldn't the op, join wife when she is there, then both the wife and OP go to France for the weekend before six months is up, then come back to UK for another six month stay.

edited: just seen post #32. Back to back visa waiver is a no-go it seems.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[arjunadawn]

I am amazed to see so many of you, including the OP, agree that a marriage one day before application is suspicious. They were married before the application; does how long really matter? Doesn't the fact they are married make you think they may want to live together?

Furthermore, he is an American, and as stated, can stay up to six months in the UK without any visa; so why would he apply for a visa under false pretenses? As an American his request for a longer stay visa to based upon his spouse's student visa after that six month period would certainly be approved.

However, we are talking post 9/11 government approvals; the US is overly cautious too.

Thank you. This was my reasoning as well, and the reason (as another noted) I was gobsmacked at the denial. I only disagree with one thing: The notion that the US is overly cautious, and perhaps even UK. Even a topical look at who is getting into the UK and USA daily stuns the mind. It is a sad point that the denial is also a libel.

[arjunadawn]

This was my plan B when I learned I was denied- to go, stay, and extend. But now I fear I am on a list for visa denial. I would likely have to present all the numerous proofs at the border that I would otherwise need to present here for second application. At least I think a visa denial goes on a list.

[7by7]

I am amazed to see so many of you, including the OP, agree that a marriage one day before application is suspicious. They were married before the application; does how long really matter? Doesn't the fact they are married make you think they may want to live together?

See my and fbf's posts above.

Although the Primary Purpose Rule was long ago abolished, persons who wish to enter the UK based upon their relationship to another still have to show that, on the balance of probabilities, that relationship is genuine and subsisting.

Furthermore, he is an American, and as stated, can stay up to six months in the UK without any visa; so why would he apply for a visa under false pretenses? As an American his request for a longer stay visa to based upon his spouse's student visa after that six month period would certainly be approved.

As a general rule, non EEA national visitors, regardless of their nationality, can only remain in the UK for a maximum of 6 months and they cannot extend their visit visa beyond this. Nor can they switch to another category inside the UK.

In addition, although not a hard and fast rule, non EEA nationals cannot spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK as a visitor; unless they have an exceptional, and usually compassionate, reason for so doing.

[Dumbastheycome]

Ah! Oops. Sorry. Understand now. Long term stay needs a visa!

[7by7]

<snip>

Even a topical look at who is getting into the UK and USA daily stuns the mind. It is a sad point that the denial is also a libel.

You seem to think that because you are American you should be exempted from the requirements of the UK immigration rules; you are not.

The ECO has to follow those rules and can only base their decision upon the evidence supplied by the applicant.

All the guidance issued by UKVI makes it very clear that the onus is upon the applicant to provide the necessary evidence to show that they qualify for the visa for which they are applying.

You failed to provide any evidence that your relationship was genuine and subsisting; as the ECO makes clear in the refusal notice.

Therefore, based upon the paltry evidence you admit supplied in your application, this refusal is correct.

Your wife did provide the necessary evidence in her application, therefore her visa was, rightly, granted.

No libel.

You have been advised how to proceed, but instead of taking that advice you, and others, now appear to want to make this topic a polemic against immigrants to the UK from certain countries and, by implication, of a certain religion.

IMHO such remarks have no place in this particular forum; therefore I will be taking no further part in this topic.

[Ghostnigel]

I have a UK passport and my Thai wife has been denied twice for a visa for a holiday!!

First time i owned a 4 bedroom house with no mortgage or outstanding money on it, had over 100,000 gbp in my bank account in UK . Just bought a house in Thailand 2 years before and had over 15 million in Thai bank here.

First refusal was because they said she could not provide 6 months bank statements , she provided them with 3 months as it would take 10 days for BKK bank to get the 6 months sent from BKK and we had already booked the day to hand in the application. I had stated that i was funding the whole trip though!!

Second application was 2 years ago ,we handed in everything as before plus more. I stated again i was paying for the trip, had sold my house in Uk but gave details off all the hotels , flights etc we were planning and costs.( 500,000 bht.) My wife had over 1.2 million bht in her bank for over a year, a 1.5 million bht car in her name that was paid for and one of my houses in her name valued at 9 million bht.

Denied on several counts!!

They said they did not believe our relationship was genuine although we provided pics , marriage certificate etc . Had been married over 7 years!!

Denied as they said she did not seem to have enough money for a return flight?? It costs over 1.2 million bht for a flight??

Denied as they said they did not think she would return!! So she was going to just abandon the car etc in her name and leave it all in Thailand !!

Denied as they said there was no evidence of my Thai visa. I printed them out myself and she had the copies of it plus my actual passport !!

Plus had letters from my mother saying if for some reason we could not afford it then her and her husband would pay for it if we ran out of money and a letter from a friend who is a retired detective chief inspector in the police who confirmed he knew us and was at our wedding!

I think the people who make the decisions on the visas just pick up a certain amount and approve them and the rest they return as denied without even looking at them!!

If she was some immigrant looking for asylum then she would have no problem getting in , get a house and loads of cash !!

Wow. This speaks, tongue in cheek, to what another basically said, its easier to come in with the hoards. At least then I would have free hotel and other goodies. It seems like senseless penalty when there really appears to be no actual enforcement from the ones who will remain. The reviewer had all my bank statements and proof of monthly income, etc. The idea an American who retires to Thailand with money will marry a Thai doctor to sneak into the UK- when he could otherwise just fly in- just seems absurd. They denied me for submitting a "fake marriage" but approved her for sponsoring it. In any event, you folks are correct: besides the wedding books and videos we already have today I printed 300 photos and emails and will collected docs, insurance, etc. I decided to even include the emails from years ago when we are a bit spicy in our exchanges. Only someone in a relationship would refer to ______as the stepdaughters and wicked stepmother (dont ask) :-) Let them read all about that!

To be honest, i didn't even know Americans needed to apply for visas to the UK....IF I was them, i would apply seperately, cannot believe any American has trouble getting in the Uk. Seems daft to me, i must be ting tong...

[fbf]

I immediately and continue to realize it does look suspicious. I just did not consider that I would be a suspect as possibly having ulterior motives. Perhaps this is what they call ethnocentrism- I assumed as an American no one would suspect I would lie to gain access to a place I could otherwise just fly into. Also, I pretty much passed the buck to my wife and had her do everything. This was unfair. The one thing she asked of me was to write a document stating our marriage was genuine. I told her no man would write such a thing. Only a person who is lying would state such a thing. Well, I eat my words because this is exactly the letter I now have to write. How foolish I have been. I do not blame the officer. I blame myself for being a dumbass.

It does seem possible that you assumed that, as an American, you would have no trouble. Your wife was right to understand that the onus is on you to show that it's a genuine marriage, although a statement along the lines "this is not a sham marriage, honestly" won't do; better to demonstrate that it's a genuine marriage without making a direct reference. "We have been together for X years, we have done this, done that, and here are a few documents to show that".

This was my plan B when I learned I was denied- to go, stay, and extend. But now I fear I am on a list for visa denial. I would likely have to present all the numerous proofs at the border that I would otherwise need to present here for second application. At least I think a visa denial goes on a list.

I would try and apply for a visa before travelling to the UK. Even without the denial that just took place, I don't think you're supposed to come in on a tourist visa and then apply for a visa of another category while still in the UK. Unless you can find any page on the gov.uk site saying that it's possible for the specific category you're applying for, then I think it's almost certain that you can't do that. Also, I expect (based only on reading topics here over the months) that a second application will not be affected by the first refusal, if you address their concerns with evidence.

Thank you. This was my reasoning as well, and the reason (as another noted) I was gobsmacked at the denial. I only disagree with one thing: The notion that the US is overly cautious, and perhaps even UK. Even a topical look at who is getting into the UK and USA daily stuns the mind. It is a sad point that the denial is also a libel.

You should probably be more specific if you're going to make a political point about who is entitled to enter the USA, or indeed any other country.

Still the fact that you were "gobsmacked" by the denial suggests that there was a big difference between your expectations and reality. While it's understandable to say some negative things when faced with this setback, it might also be a useful wake-up call to help realise the world isn't quite as you thought.

As a UK citizen who has travelled a bit in recent years, it's useful to learn about the limitations of a British passport. When travelling to a country such as Ghana, a former British colony, I needed to apply for a visa. I don't think Ghana has a problem with migration from the UK. Nevertheless, there is no bilateral agreement and I can't just show uninvited, as I have been doing in Thailand. I could grumble that they're just doing it to annoy their former colonial masters, but I can't know that for sure; better to just get on with it.

Nor can I show up at the US border uninvited.

Despite the bilateral agreement on not needing a visa for short business trips/tourist visits, the USA actually requires a kind of "visa lite", ESTA - https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ - although $14 isn't so expensive. Nevertheless, I was not "gobsmacked" when I was interrogated at Heathrow before even being allowed to board the plane to Atlanta, nor when on arrival I was escorted to a private room by an armed police officer and interrogated again. Sure I was surprised at the level of attention, because I had done nothing to arouse suspicion, but I was not surprised that a British citizen could be treated this way. I already knew about how US immigration works, and how a friend whose surname is similar to Barack Obama's middle name routinely gets detained on arrival, so I was half expecting trouble.

So why did the USA nearly refuse me entry? It turned out that they didn't like the IP address I was connecting from when I applied for the ESTA. I was using an office computer in London. They thought I was connecting somewhere from the Middle East.

So I am not surprised if the UK also has difficulty deciding who to allow in and who to deny sometimes.

Meanwhile, I have a friend whose Thai girlfriend (now wife) was denied several visas before she could finally visit the UK. And this is the point of my reply really - after that, I didn't so much complain about the system (well, maybe a little), but mostly focused on researching the options and making the best possible application - with all the needed facts - to have a good chance of success. And at each stage, I also had a plan for what to do if the application was refused.

You can probably get a lot of help from the members of this forum. But if you believe you are entitled to enter the UK while also casting doubt about what other groups of people should be allowed here, that probably won't get you any closer to what you want.

Also, despite again being quite hard on you (when you are already being quite contrite), I do genuinely hope you manage to get the visa second time around.

[fbf]

A little off-topic, but your application was submitted a few working days after my wife's (the appointment was 17th July), and she is still awaiting a decision. I guess it's not an absolute first-in-first-out queue of processing, with a little natural variance...

Different visa category, so yes, there will be a difference in processing times. Ajunadawn applied for a non settlement visa, and these do tend to be processed more quickly than settlement ones.

Ah yes, thanks. I think I was getting my categories mixed up! I'm trying not to ask "how long will it take?" questions but it's a tense waiting game.

[ResandePohm]

Getting married just before the application is the issue. I think anyone reviewing your application would have refused it on that basis. It looks like a marriage of convenience. If you can prove you've been together for 5 years then you will likely get the decision overturned.

Its actually quite a wake up call. I am not yet sure what I learned though. I write often about illegal immigration, but it actually never occurred to me that there was a fraud market for Americans trying to get into the UK by fake marriages to Thai women who themselves applied via student visa. I just never saw it coming. Seems much easier as an American to fly to UK on tourist visa and remain. In this manner I still think there is a high degree of dumb-assness about the decision.

My wife had wanted me to write a statement certifying the marriage was genuine, etc. I refused to do so because I argued only a liar would presume others would think he is lying. I was way out of my knowledge zone with this one. All the comments here support what the wife said we must do. I will submit in a day or two. Again, thanks.

The best way to prove your relationship is genuine is to show that it is not new but that you have been together for 5 years. This you can do by showing copies of letters to each of you at the same address, particularly if they are from official departments like the tax office, pensions office, bank statements etc. or even medical departments such as your doctor. This way you can show that your relationship is not a sham but has been going on for years.

Do not take this refusal personally. They make a principle based on many nationalities. You would be surprised how many Eastern Europeans are involved in sham marriages or how many Indian or Pakistanis that now have British citizenship go for a holiday in their home country and try to return with a new wife who has no connection to the UK and cannot even speak a word of English.

I am sure if you show that yours is a long term relationship you will succeed

Edited August 10, 2015 by ResandePohm

[Basil B]

I have a UK passport and my Thai wife has been denied twice for a visa for a holiday!!

First time i owned a 4 bedroom house with no mortgage or outstanding money on it, had over 100,000 gbp in my bank account in UK . Just bought a house in Thailand 2 years before and had over 15 million in Thai bank here.

First refusal was because they said she could not provide 6 months bank statements , she provided them with 3 months as it would take 10 days for BKK bank to get the 6 months sent from BKK and we had already booked the day to hand in the application. I had stated that i was funding the whole trip though!!

Second application was 2 years ago ,we handed in everything as before plus more. I stated again i was paying for the trip, had sold my house in Uk but gave details off all the hotels , flights etc we were planning and costs.( 500,000 bht.) My wife had over 1.2 million bht in her bank for over a year, a 1.5 million bht car in her name that was paid for and one of my houses in her name valued at 9 million bht.

Denied on several counts!!

They said they did not believe our relationship was genuine although we provided pics , marriage certificate etc . Had been married over 7 years!!

Denied as they said she did not seem to have enough money for a return flight?? It costs over 1.2 million bht for a flight??

Denied as they said they did not think she would return!! So she was going to just abandon the car etc in her name and leave it all in Thailand !!

Denied as they said there was no evidence of my Thai visa. I printed them out myself and she had the copies of it plus my actual passport !!

Plus had letters from my mother saying if for some reason we could not afford it then her and her husband would pay for it if we ran out of money and a letter from a friend who is a retired detective chief inspector in the police who confirmed he knew us and was at our wedding!

I think the people who make the decisions on the visas just pick up a certain amount and approve them and the rest they return as denied without even looking at them!!

If she was some immigrant looking for asylum then she would have no problem getting in , get a house and loads of cash !!

Wow. This speaks, tongue in cheek, to what another basically said, its easier to come in with the hoards. At least then I would have free hotel and other goodies. It seems like senseless penalty when there really appears to be no actual enforcement from the ones who will remain. The reviewer had all my bank statements and proof of monthly income, etc. The idea an American who retires to Thailand with money will marry a Thai doctor to sneak into the UK- when he could otherwise just fly in- just seems absurd. They denied me for submitting a "fake marriage" but approved her for sponsoring it. In any event, you folks are correct: besides the wedding books and videos we already have today I printed 300 photos and emails and will collected docs, insurance, etc. I decided to even include the emails from years ago when we are a bit spicy in our exchanges. Only someone in a relationship would refer to ______as the stepdaughters and wicked stepmother (dont ask) :-) Let them read all about that!

To be honest, i didn't even know Americans needed to apply for visas to the UK....IF I was them, i would apply seperately, cannot believe any American has trouble getting in the Uk. Seems daft to me, i must be ting tong...

Americans are subject to immigration law too...

Though they and certain other nationalities do not need a Visa they may well be subject to questioning at port of entry as to there reason for visiting, ability to finance their visit, accommodation and having good reason to return to their country of residence.

Using the uk.gov "Check if You Need a UK Visa" and enter Passport = USA, reason for visit = tourism https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/tourism

Does say a Visa not required...

But also advises getting a Visa if one has a criminal record or been previously refused entry into the UK.

The OP says a lot about his wife who to her credit does qualify yet little about himself, who for all we know could be no better than those making news down in Calais, and given the fact his wife will be studying in the UK the probability that he may overstay in the UK is high.

[arjunadawn]

Americans are subject to immigration law too...

Though they and certain other nationalities do not need a Visa they may well be subject to questioning at port of entry as to there reason for visiting, ability to finance their visit, accommodation and having good reason to return to their country of residence.

Using the uk.gov "Check if You Need a UK Visa" and enter Passport = USA, reason for visit = tourism https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/tourism

Does say a Visa not required...

But also advises getting a Visa if one has a criminal record or been previously refused entry into the UK.

The OP says a lot about his wife who to her credit does qualify yet little about himself, who for all we know could be no better than those making news down in Calais, and given the fact his wife will be studying in the UK the probability that he may overstay in the UK is high.

Yes, it is clearly admitted I presumed. I made no comment about Americans in general in the OP, only that I was an American, this is my problem, my assumptions, and my results. I shared my story, and asked for observations. Indeed, nearly everyone until your last sentence was actually consistent, novel, or useful.

"...visa not required." Wrong! I am going as a student dependent to medical school for a year or so.

Why would my wife qualifying reflect a credit of some sort- presumably a character credit, as indicated by the follow-on contrast with me- presumably my rejection equating me with people violating numerous the laws, of multiple countries, and she does not.

This is the same perverse logic evident in denying me for marriage fraud but allowing her in with the same document enclosed in her application. How can she have some "credit" but also be dumb enough to marry a man who is "no better" than those making news in Calais?

You should apply for a job as an entry clearance officer.

[simple1]

@arjunadawn: You have acknowledged your error of judgement, time to move along, follow the process & you will be fine.

London is a great city for intellectual exploration. Hope you don't mind an unsolicited suggestion. Given your interest in Vedanta and the spiritual world may be it's time to let go of conflict issues and delve deeper.

Hope you & your wife truly enjoy the positive aspects of life in the UK.

Peter...

Edited August 10, 2015 by simple1

[bobrussell]

Go for administrative review!

There is nothing wrong or suspicious about getting married one day before application but as stated it should be accompanied by an explanation. Make it clear that you believe the ECO has come to an incorrect decision but admit that you may not have made the details of the relationship as clear as you should have done! I am a bit confused though as the visa application forms have all sorts of questions regarding marital status. Are these missing on the form you used?

A refusal should only be on the grounds that the marriage is a sham one! Make it clear that this cannot be the case and back it up with documentation. The ECO has made a mistake but it may have been understandable based on the information given.

I have become very cynical about the performance of ECO's recently! I genuinely believe they are trying to find reasons to refuse, presumably under political pressure. They also seem completely protected from complaints regarding these refusals. I am not convinced all the ECO's even read the application forms properly!

Edited August 10, 2015 by bobrussell

[Tony M]

The only issue seems to be demonstrating that the marriage/relationship is genuine, and that shouldn't be difficult to show. If it was me, and money wasn't an option, I would do both- submit a new application, and also an application for an administrative review. Either will hopefully be successful, and I don't think there is anything to stop both applications going ahead alongside each other. Will an admin review be successful ? The ECO will, I think, be using this guidance, and if he does, then the answer could be no. :

What will be considered on administrative review?

AR2.3 The eligible decision will be reviewed to establish whether there is a case working error, either as identified in the application for administrative review, or identified by the Reviewer in the course of conducting the administrative review.

AR2.4 The Reviewer will not consider any evidence that was not before the original decision maker except where evidence that was not before the original decision maker is submitted to demonstrate that a case working error as defined in paragraph AR2.11 (a) or (b ) has been made.

AR2.5 If the applicant has identified a case working error as defined in paragraph AR2.11 (a) or (b ), the Reviewer may contact the applicant or his representative in writing, and request relevant evidence. The requested evidence must be received at the address specified in the request within 7 working days of the date of the request.

AR2.6 The Reviewer will not consider whether the applicant is entitled to leave to remain on some other basis and nothing in these rules shall be taken to mean that the applicant may make an application for leave or vary an existing application for leave, or make a protection or human rights claim, by seeking administrative review.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Tony M

[gregk0543]

Make a better case by evidence.

You have been in college together prove it.

You have lived in Thailand together prove it.

You do not qualify until you prove that you do, not just say you do.

There are many people in this world who will lie all the way to another country and this pattern of lies is well known so you have to prove that you are innocent.

Then the box gets ticked and the hurdles have been jumped and the hoops gone through. It is hard but never give up. The immigration is a system to weed out those who are trying to cheat the system. Put your self in the shoes of the immigration officer you have to supply evidence to someone who doesnt know you that will satisfy them.

[wooloomooloo]

It seems to me that your application failed because you made assumptions about what might influence the application. That is understandable; it might indeed make sense for the British Embassy to look at the "big picture" based on both applications, and if fraud is suspected in one then to also question the other. The fact that they failed to do so is actually a good outcome for your wife of course.

I see your logic but am minded that the OP's wife applied for a completely unrelated visa to that of her husband, namely a Tier 4 student visa. The evidential requirements are also worlds apart. I wouldn't assume that both applications were in the same pile with the same ECO either.

[superal]

I have a UK passport and my Thai wife has been denied twice for a visa for a holiday!!

First time i owned a 4 bedroom house with no mortgage or outstanding money on it, had over 100,000 gbp in my bank account in UK . Just bought a house in Thailand 2 years before and had over 15 million in Thai bank here.

First refusal was because they said she could not provide 6 months bank statements , she provided them with 3 months as it would take 10 days for BKK bank to get the 6 months sent from BKK and we had already booked the day to hand in the application. I had stated that i was funding the whole trip though!!

Second application was 2 years ago ,we handed in everything as before plus more. I stated again i was paying for the trip, had sold my house in Uk but gave details off all the hotels , flights etc we were planning and costs.( 500,000 bht.) My wife had over 1.2 million bht in her bank for over a year, a 1.5 million bht car in her name that was paid for and one of my houses in her name valued at 9 million bht.

Denied on several counts!!

They said they did not believe our relationship was genuine although we provided pics , marriage certificate etc . Had been married over 7 years!!

Denied as they said she did not seem to have enough money for a return flight?? It costs over 1.2 million bht for a flight??

Denied as they said they did not think she would return!! So she was going to just abandon the car etc in her name and leave it all in Thailand !!

Denied as they said there was no evidence of my Thai visa. I printed them out myself and she had the copies of it plus my actual passport !!

Plus had letters from my mother saying if for some reason we could not afford it then her and her husband would pay for it if we ran out of money and a letter from a friend who is a retired detective chief inspector in the police who confirmed he knew us and was at our wedding!

I think the people who make the decisions on the visas just pick up a certain amount and approve them and the rest they return as denied without even looking at them!!

If she was some immigrant looking for asylum then she would have no problem getting in , get a house and loads of cash !!

Hi Ronaldo0 ,

Incredible , unbelieveable , who wrote this BS .

Well that is what I would think if it had not happened to me . My circumstances were almost identical to yours , even to the inclusion of my son who was an acting C.I.D. officer who was to be a reference of repute . Our reason for refusal was they did not think she would return to Thailand , despite she owns her own 4 bedroom house ,restaurant , bank account and that her elderly parents were totally dependent on her financially.

Without going on too long it seems that there should be immediate recourse for an appeal within 5 days and in person . Costs to the appellant if unsuccessful.

I know of 2 UK guys who have just been successful with their applications . 1 of them used an agency at a cost of 60,000 Baht and he was married for 4 months only , the 2nd had a girlfriend he met in a bar in Pattaya had known her for 5 months , she had no collateral / bank etc . He was a non house owner in the UK and on a below average wage , again he used an agency and was successful . I had been told before my application by a Thai , that to save time and money was to use an agency . Corruption rules I guess .

I share your frustrations and bewilderment but I am now thinking to go with the flow and do things the Thai way .

ps , Do not put posts of reply to state that if the application fulfills all requirements it will succeed, as have been in the past . Total rubbish and a lottery with a system that is almost unaccountable for its actions and decisions .

[arjunadawn]

I have a UK passport and my Thai wife has been denied twice for a visa for a holiday!!

First time i owned a 4 bedroom house with no mortgage or outstanding money on it, had over 100,000 gbp in my bank account in UK . Just bought a house in Thailand 2 years before and had over 15 million in Thai bank here.

First refusal was because they said she could not provide 6 months bank statements , she provided them with 3 months as it would take 10 days for BKK bank to get the 6 months sent from BKK and we had already booked the day to hand in the application. I had stated that i was funding the whole trip though!!

Second application was 2 years ago ,we handed in everything as before plus more. I stated again i was paying for the trip, had sold my house in Uk but gave details off all the hotels , flights etc we were planning and costs.( 500,000 bht.) My wife had over 1.2 million bht in her bank for over a year, a 1.5 million bht car in her name that was paid for and one of my houses in her name valued at 9 million bht.

Denied on several counts!!

They said they did not believe our relationship was genuine although we provided pics , marriage certificate etc . Had been married over 7 years!!

Denied as they said she did not seem to have enough money for a return flight?? It costs over 1.2 million bht for a flight??

Denied as they said they did not think she would return!! So she was going to just abandon the car etc in her name and leave it all in Thailand !!

Denied as they said there was no evidence of my Thai visa. I printed them out myself and she had the copies of it plus my actual passport !!

Plus had letters from my mother saying if for some reason we could not afford it then her and her husband would pay for it if we ran out of money and a letter from a friend who is a retired detective chief inspector in the police who confirmed he knew us and was at our wedding!

I think the people who make the decisions on the visas just pick up a certain amount and approve them and the rest they return as denied without even looking at them!!

If she was some immigrant looking for asylum then she would have no problem getting in , get a house and loads of cash !!

Hi Ronaldo0 ,

Incredible , unbelieveable , who wrote this BS .

Well that is what I would think if it had not happened to me . My circumstances were almost identical to yours , even to the inclusion of my son who was an acting C.I.D. officer who was to be a reference of repute . Our reason for refusal was they did not think she would return to Thailand , despite she owns her own 4 bedroom house ,restaurant , bank account and that her elderly parents were totally dependent on her financially.

Without going on too long it seems that there should be immediate recourse for an appeal within 5 days and in person . Costs to the appellant if unsuccessful.

I know of 2 UK guys who have just been successful with their applications . 1 of them used an agency at a cost of 60,000 Baht and he was married for 4 months only , the 2nd had a girlfriend he met in a bar in Pattaya had known her for 5 months , she had no collateral / bank etc . He was a non house owner in the UK and on a below average wage , again he used an agency and was successful . I had been told before my application by a Thai , that to save time and money was to use an agency . Corruption rules I guess .

I share your frustrations and bewilderment but I am now thinking to go with the flow and do things the Thai way .

ps , Do not put posts of reply to state that if the application fulfills all requirements it will succeed, as have been in the past . Total rubbish and a lottery with a system that is almost unaccountable for its actions and decisions .

You mention something regarding a visa. I had not mentioned it before as we are still trying to figure out what it means but yes, they mentioned some skepticism about my being on a retirement visa. I mean, the fact I was on a retirement visa was listed in the reasons for my denial- along with the retirement visa through date of next year. But nothing about its placement in the reasons for denial section make sense. It is almost as if it was randomly chosen to be there. It is not developed, only the recent paper marriage is developed as a denial reason, but both are in the reason for denial section.

[ronaldo0]

I have a UK passport and my Thai wife has been denied twice for a visa for a holiday!!

First time i owned a 4 bedroom house with no mortgage or outstanding money on it, had over 100,000 gbp in my bank account in UK . Just bought a house in Thailand 2 years before and had over 15 million in Thai bank here.

First refusal was because they said she could not provide 6 months bank statements , she provided them with 3 months as it would take 10 days for BKK bank to get the 6 months sent from BKK and we had already booked the day to hand in the application. I had stated that i was funding the whole trip though!!

Second application was 2 years ago ,we handed in everything as before plus more. I stated again i was paying for the trip, had sold my house in Uk but gave details off all the hotels , flights etc we were planning and costs.( 500,000 bht.) My wife had over 1.2 million bht in her bank for over a year, a 1.5 million bht car in her name that was paid for and one of my houses in her name valued at 9 million bht.

Denied on several counts!!

They said they did not believe our relationship was genuine although we provided pics , marriage certificate etc . Had been married over 7 years!!

Denied as they said she did not seem to have enough money for a return flight?? It costs over 1.2 million bht for a flight??

Denied as they said they did not think she would return!! So she was going to just abandon the car etc in her name and leave it all in Thailand !!

Denied as they said there was no evidence of my Thai visa. I printed them out myself and she had the copies of it plus my actual passport !!

Plus had letters from my mother saying if for some reason we could not afford it then her and her husband would pay for it if we ran out of money and a letter from a friend who is a retired detective chief inspector in the police who confirmed he knew us and was at our wedding!

I think the people who make the decisions on the visas just pick up a certain amount and approve them and the rest they return as denied without even looking at them!!

If she was some immigrant looking for asylum then she would have no problem getting in , get a house and loads of cash !!

Hi Ronaldo0 ,

Incredible , unbelieveable , who wrote this BS .

Well that is what I would think if it had not happened to me . My circumstances were almost identical to yours , even to the inclusion of my son who was an acting C.I.D. officer who was to be a reference of repute . Our reason for refusal was they did not think she would return to Thailand , despite she owns her own 4 bedroom house ,restaurant , bank account and that her elderly parents were totally dependent on her financially.

Without going on too long it seems that there should be immediate recourse for an appeal within 5 days and in person . Costs to the appellant if unsuccessful.

I know of 2 UK guys who have just been successful with their applications . 1 of them used an agency at a cost of 60,000 Baht and he was married for 4 months only , the 2nd had a girlfriend he met in a bar in Pattaya had known her for 5 months , she had no collateral / bank etc . He was a non house owner in the UK and on a below average wage , again he used an agency and was successful . I had been told before my application by a Thai , that to save time and money was to use an agency . Corruption rules I guess .

I share your frustrations and bewilderment but I am now thinking to go with the flow and do things the Thai way .

ps , Do not put posts of reply to state that if the application fulfills all requirements it will succeed, as have been in the past . Total rubbish and a lottery with a system that is almost unaccountable for its actions and decisions .

At least i am not the only one then !!

My wife has 2 friends who had no savings, crap jobs paying minimum wages, no land, no houses or cars etc and they both married people from the UK in Thailand who also had no savings , property etc and no job or a crap job and both moved to the UK within 3 months off getting married and have stayed there ever since!!

My friend from Uk applied 4 times for his wife who worked as a chef in a 5 star hotel in Bangkok and was refused every time, they ended up getting a divorce because off the fact she could not get a UK visa!

My next time will be the last whatever the decision !!

Oh and when i wanted to complain about the decision my complaint was sent to an office in Vietnam!!!

Who said they agreed with the initial decision and to try again!!

Edited August 11, 2015 by ronaldo0

[bobrussell]

Having seen an ECO refuse an EEA Family permit for the wife of a Swiss multimillionaire, I am now totally convinced that they consider themselves untouchable. He or she refused to process it as a permit but insisted on processing it as a visit visa. It was suggested that the applicant might have to work whilst in the UK!

Without any form of appeal and limited or no requirement to reassess decisions in an open way, ECO's can process paperwork in any manner they see fit. Complaints are not responded to so frustratingly it all stops.

UKVI (and probably other government departments) will take little notice. Keep applying and sooner or later an ECO who knows what they should be doing, might actually do it!

[7by7]

I know that I said I would not be posting in this topic again; but I feel it is important to reassure those reading this who currently have an application being processed or will shortly be submitting one.

From my own experience, those of people I know personally and those I have read of on this forum and others I am confident that there are only three reasons why an application is refused.

They are, in ascending order:-

1) ECO error; they are human and so can and do make mistakes.

Due to government policy, which UKVI and the individual ECOs have no choice other than to follow, correcting these errors has become more and more difficult, almost impossible. That is wrong. But it will take a complete change of heart by this, and future, governments to correct that; which is unlikely to happen.

It may be that some ECOs are less careful than they used to be, knowing that their decisions can no longer be appealed in most cases, but they are still subject to scrutiny and can be disciplined if they are failing in their duties. I cannot believe that they are deliberately refusing applications which they should be granting. Not only do they have no reason for so doing, there are no quotas or targets, repeatedly doing so would put their job in jeopardy!

2) The applicant simply does not qualify for the visa applied for.

3) The applicant does qualify for the visa applied for, but has failed to show that they do.

This is certainly the case in the majority of refusals I have personally been involved in and have read about in forums such as this.

Indeed, the refusal notice in the OP of this topic shows this to be the case here and the OP has admitted he made the mistake of not providing any evidence to show that his relationship is genuine and subsisting.

It is, of course, impossible to comment on the other examples posted here without knowing exactly what the refusal notices said; but I suspect they are similar; lack of evidence.

ECOs are not mind readers, they are not clairvoyant. They only know what the applicant and sponsor (if any) have told them; they can only judge an application on the evidence provided by the applicant and, if there is one, the sponsor.

If that evidence is not provided or is insufficient they are not allowed, except in certain situations such as the financial requirement for family settlement, to go chasing after it. They have absolutely no choice, they have to refuse.

The moral of the story being: prepare the application thoroughly; don't overwhelm the ECO with paperwork, but do provide documentary evidence to support what you have said in the application.

In the case of the OP, had he supplied a few documents to show that he and his now wife had been living together for 5 years then I have no doubt that his visa would have been granted.

Indeed, they did not even have to marry; simply showing that they had been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for two years or more would have meant he qualified as her unmarried partner!

As he would have known had he followed the guidance in the link provided to him before he and his wife applied in this post

[arjunadawn]

As my wife and I are gathering all our data, photos, etc. one other issue keeps popping up in our discussions, and concerns: why on earth would my retirement visa status in Thailand be listed in the reasons for denial area? We have exhaustively tried to chase down whether my being on a retirement visa extension through march of next year somehow prejudices me but we cannot see how. We are unsure if the statement simply exists as a matter of fact or as an supporting reason for the denial. We are running out of time and the expenses keep increasing. Could I really be prejudiced for applying as her dependent while on retirement extension? This is just such a shame. We have never been apart for even a day in years and years.

Edited August 11, 2015 by arjunadawn

[7by7]

Read the refusal notice again; that you are currently in Thailand with a retirement visa is merely a statement of fact; nothing to do with the refusal.

Read on and you will see that due to the very short time period between your marriage and application and the total lack of any evidence to show that your relationship existed prior to that marriage then s/he was not satisfied that your relationship is genuine and subsisting; which it needs to be as you applied as the family member of a Tier 4 student.

That is why you were refused; nothing to do with your immigration status in Thailand.

[arjunadawn]

Read the refusal notice again; that you are currently in Thailand with a retirement visa is merely a statement of fact; nothing to do with the refusal.

Read on and you will see that due to the very short time period between your marriage and application and the total lack of any evidence to show that your relationship existed prior to that marriage then s/he was not satisfied that your relationship is genuine and subsisting; which it needs to be as you applied as the family member of a Tier 4 student.

That is why you were refused; nothing to do with your immigration status in Thailand.

Thank you... again. I told the Mrs this but as I did little to help her previously fill it out she is skeptical I know any facts at all. I believe they simply provide the information used to adjudicate- a statement of fact. Thank you. Now, if I can get her to calm down. You, particularly, have been very kind to me. Thank you.

Instead of another thread, if any can confirm: When in UK next year, after my retirement extension in Thailand expires, I can apply at the Thai Consulate for a 90 day visa (even though UK is not my home country), and then apply for extension to stay when in the Kingdom? This is correct, yes?

Edited August 11, 2015 by arjunadawn

[laislica]

Dear OP, I sympathise with the frustration you suffer.

We were married only a few months before applying for a holiday and were refused. I am a Brit but am 20 years older than my wife and maybe this was an issue.

We got her an EEA Family Member visa for Spain and after jumping through many hoops got her Spanish residency.

One of the hoops involved us taking our translated marriage documents to a British Consul in Spain and swearing oaths before the consul that we were legally married and were living together as man and wife. This cost €243 and resulted in a 15 page document which included a letter from me stating when we met.

The point of this post is to suggest that you ask if there is a way that you could both swear oaths and have a document created by an Embassy or consul acceptable to the British authorities.

Maybe 7 x 7 could comment?

Anyway, good luck with what ever do do.