Usefruct in Pattaya, did it work for you?

[samsung99]

And as far as i know a usefruct can be cancelled if both parties agree. This opens the thai owner the way to sell the property if both want so.

[Psychic]

I will be attempting to get a usufruct on our house/land soon.

And it will be done for one very simple reason. Thailand does not permit me to own the land we live on.

Should anything (god forbid) happen to my wife I have, to the best of my knowledge 1 year to dispose of the property. But I don't want to have to leave my home.

The other option would be sell to my wife's daughter...well give actually.

And I have no doubt as long as she is single I would be perfectly secure.

But, as I told my wife, she will get married eventually and if this future husband wants the couple of million baht from the property the falang is living on I have been around enough to foresee a very unfavourable outcome.

So a usufruct would simply be a cheap form of insurance that I get to spend the rest of my days in my home.

Again, these are a chain of highly unlikely events.I have a hard time envisioning the daughter doing anything of the sort but for bless than a hundred baht I can give myself somenpiece of mind.

[samsung99]

I will be attempting to get a usufruct on our house/land soon.

And it will be done for one very simple reason. Thailand does not permit me to own the land we live on.

Should anything (god forbid) happen to my wife I have, to the best of my knowledge 1 year to dispose of the property. But I don't want to have to leave my home.

The other option would be sell to my wife's daughter...well give actually.

And I have no doubt as long as she is single I would be perfectly secure.

But, as I told my wife, she will get married eventually and if this future husband wants the couple of million baht from the property the falang is living on I have been around enough to foresee a very unfavourable outcome.

So a usufruct would simply be a cheap form of insurance that I get to spend the rest of my days in my home.

Again, these are a chain of highly unlikely events.I have a hard time envisioning the daughter doing anything of the sort but for bless than a hundred baht I can give myself somenpiece of mind.

Where?

[metisdead]

A post containing an offensive reference toward women has been removed. A nonsense post not offering any helpful information has been removed as well as a reply.

[Psychic]

Chaam.

Went to the land office before we got a tabien ban.

We were told that it was better to get this first. Not sure but I believe this shouldn't be relevant.

I have read that the land office will try to dissuade you from a usufruct and attempt to get you to make a 30 year leaselease as leases are taxable.

I also understand some offices will try to avoid doing it altogether. The lady asked my wife really wanted to do this.

I understand the concern as a falang could use it against his Thai spouse. But my understanding is that if the usufruct is between spouses then either of them can cancel unilaterally.

This is what I told my wife.

I may just go see a lawyer and see what they want to complete the whole process. It will be easier for him to explain everything and I would hope he would be able to streamline the process.

Again, all this is just from my own reading. Any clarification would be helpful.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

But my understanding is that if the usufruct is between spouses then either of them can cancel unilaterally.

We seem to have about 100 threads regarding corruption in Thailand before we have another one that assures how a farang can own land and house in Thailand.

I was roundly thrashed for an earlier post but I don't mind. I'm my own man and I can afford to live anywhere I wish and travel anywhere I wish. I didn't get that way by being dumb.

The GF can take out a loan with a loan shark "subject to the lease" and that loan shark won't respect the lease at all. The farang will be gone one way or another after the loan shark takes ownership of that home when payments aren't made. I know someone that happened to.

The home ownership can also be taken for gambling debts and the farang will be gone.

These loan sharks, game runners and new boyfriends have no respect for the law and they know that a brown envelope will clear the title for them. How hard is it to get documents affirming that the farang hasn't made lease payments or even been around for the required time even if the statements are lies?

There is no assurance for a farang in Thailand - not even an assurance that he will be allowed to continue as an expat. There are too many bad scenarios that can be put into place if the Thais decide they want the farang gone, and they do look out for each other and work their corruption together.

Cheers.

[roath]

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

[samsung99]

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

Excellent advise, thanks!

[Psychic]

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

Just to clear something up for me.

The usufruct allows me possession of the land until death.

What does the will add to this? I'm guessing that you are talking about a non-spousal arrangement so you get the ownership and right to sell.

I've actually never considered the implications but I guess if a Thai spouse of a foreigner dies even with a usufruct in place, he still needs to transfer the property to a Thai national while retaining the rights of residence.

As I mentioned, the land will pass on to the daughter. Do I need my wife to put this condition in a will?

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread

[jacko45k]

Lets face it anywhere in the world you could get threatened by the family of your wife or ,girlfriend, not just here in Thailand it all depends on your relationship, i could not imagine my wife's family threatening me,as we have been a family so long,I have known her brothers since they were teenagers. But if you have only been with someone a year or two and hardly know her family it can be a different story,but as I said that can apply anywhere

But I would feel safer if it happened in the UK.

And of course there I would not need silly dodges like usefruct, lease or limited companies.

Here they will work so long as the relationship worked and you were living happily ever after.

Thais resolve their problems their own way and to a degree with impunity.

I would not feel good about having to pay a lawyer, hope that a Thai judge would rule against his friends and countrymen, nor having a threat held to me and be under command to 'sign here'.

Many western men dispel the happy ever after state with their own behaviour, and in the competition between Farang man and Thai lady (who has the fury of a woman scorned, a family, and the judicial system behind her), well I think the woman will win out.

The losers line the barstools on Bua-kaho at 2pm daily.

(PS Typed tongue in cheek and cynically).

[roath]

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

Just to clear something up for me.

The usufruct allows me possession of the land until death.

What does the will add to this? I'm guessing that you are talking about a non-spousal arrangement so you get the ownership and right to sell.

I've actually never considered the implications but I guess if a Thai spouse of a foreigner dies even with a usufruct in place, he still needs to transfer the property to a Thai national while retaining the rights of residence.

As I mentioned, the land will pass on to the daughter. Do I need my wife to put this condition in a will?

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread

Yes, you are right: the will deals with succession issues. I don't know about Thai inheritance or intestacy law: in most countries, the estate passes on intestacy to the spouse. That isn't always the case however. It is always better to plan for these things than leave them to chance as of course there may be some legal dispute which arises or the law may not do what you wanted/expected. So, yes, the will should deal with what you wish happen to your estate after your decease.

For those of us who are unmarried of course, we would want to ensure that we have some control over who owns the land (and whose name goes in the Blue Tabien Baan) if our partner pre-deceases, not least as of course, you may wish to sell the property before you yourself pass away, which might be difficult if some awkward family member is involved (i.e. may want a substantial pay-off to let you shift property and get at least a chunk of the investment back on the disposal). Foreigners can of course own the actual house (just not the land it sits on), and many people have talked about removing the house etc. to be as difficult as the person you are dealing with, but this is hardly a great solution (and in addition to the hassle involved in demolition if not a moveable wooden house means that you have to stump up for demolition and removal of debris costs etc so hardly makes economic sense).

Hopes that this helps

[Naam]

many people have talked about removing the house etc. to be as difficult as the person you are dealing with, but this is hardly a great solution (and in addition to the hassle involved in demolition if not a moveable wooden house means that you have to stump up for demolition and removal of debris costs etc so hardly makes economic sense).

but the result might be some satisfaction

[bangkoklawyer24]

Usufruct agreements in Thailand.pdf

A rather deviating legal viewpoint can be found at LinkedIn: The Usufruct in Thailand

http://linkd.in/1LQ9xlK

[NeverSure]

^^^ That's a good read. To simplify something before starting, when he says "The usufruct is a real right, not a contract" he means real as in real estate. It's also called "an estate in real" meaning that it is a real property right. It's real estate aka real property as opposed to personal property which is comprised of "other things" that aren't real property.

It's just too important to understand that the Thai system and Thai courts aren't there to help farangs and if the Thais want a farang gone he will leave.

Cheers.

[starky]

-snip-

But my understanding is that if the usufruct is between spouses then either of them can cancel unilaterally.

We seem to have about 100 threads regarding corruption in Thailand before we have another one that assures how a farang can own land and house in Thailand.

I was roundly thrashed for an earlier post but I don't mind. I'm my own man and I can afford to live anywhere I wish and travel anywhere I wish. I didn't get that way by being dumb.

The GF can take out a loan with a loan shark "subject to the lease" and that loan shark won't respect the lease at all. The farang will be gone one way or another after the loan shark takes ownership of that home when payments aren't made. I know someone that happened to.

The home ownership can also be taken for gambling debts and the farang will be gone.

These loan sharks, game runners and new boyfriends have no respect for the law and they know that a brown envelope will clear the title for them. How hard is it to get documents affirming that the farang hasn't made lease payments or even been around for the required time even if the statements are lies?

There is no assurance for a farang in Thailand - not even an assurance that he will be allowed to continue as an expat. There are too many bad scenarios that can be put into place if the Thais decide they want the farang gone, and they do look out for each other and work their corruption together.

Cheers.

I think you missed the point mate. It appears the OP wants advice from people that have first hand experience on this topic. Not hearsay from a bloke that doesn't live here but knows a guy, who has a friend whose girlfriend allegedly did.. That is all barstool BS. If you want to Thai bash go right ahead but as you don't know what your talking about and can't add anything constructive to the debate why not do it elsewhere. On an Americans who don't like Thailand forum perhaps...Cheers

[JLCrab]

The OP should maybe be asking who in Pattaya or elsewhere has had a usufruct registered at the local land office and the Thai owner of the property has later decided that the usufruct as constructed should be declared null & void as (she) agreed to the said usufruct offered to the non-Thai person under duress as, per the link above, she did not even receive enough money for a cup of coffee for the lifetime use of her property.

• "Foreigners are prohibited to own land in Thailand. No one in their right mind would expect to find a lifetime catch-all solution for this serious legal restriction for the price of a cup of coffee."

[samsung99]

The OP should maybe be asking who in Pattaya or elsewhere has had a usufruct registered at the local land office and the Thai owner of the property has later decided that the usufruct as constructed should be declared null & void as (she) agreed to the said usufruct offered to the non-Thai person under duress as, per the link above, she did not even receive enough money for a cup of coffee for the lifetime use of her property.

• "Foreigners are prohibited to own land in Thailand. No one in their right mind would expect to find a lifetime catch-all solution for this serious legal restriction for the price of a cup of coffee."

With a usefruct you don't own land, you just have the right to use it. Therefore it's legal and offers a relatively safe way to use the land & house for the rest of your life. As always in life things can go wrong, also with this construct.

[JLCrab]

If you as a non-Thai make a gift to a Thai someone for $10,000 and then the Thai buys a property with that money and gives to you a lifetime usufruct for $10, that is not an arm's length transaction but an attempt to circumvent Thai land laws.

If the Thai person who is the owner of the property receives fair market value for the use of her property, then that is another story.

[chiang mai]

^^^ That's a good read. To simplify something before starting, when he says "The usufruct is a real right, not a contract" he means real as in real estate. It's also called "an estate in real" meaning that it is a real property right. It's real estate aka real property as opposed to personal property which is comprised of "other things" that aren't real property.

It's just too important to understand that the Thai system and Thai courts aren't there to help farangs and if the Thais want a farang gone he will leave.

Cheers.

"It's just too important to understand that the Thai system and Thai courts aren't there to help farangs.....".

Whereas I believe, as do many many others, that the Thai courts and associated legal system are there to administer justice, within the framework of Thai law. If a person doesn't accept that as a fundamental truth they shouldn't be here or even consider coming here, which you're not and aren't.

[samsung99]

No, because you dont try to own the land.The thai owner owns it all the time. If you gift it to the thai then its completely legal. If you try to secure it with fake loans and whatever else civil contracts then it might be seen as circumvent Thai land laws.

[JLCrab]

No, because you dont try to own the land.The thai owner owns it all the time. If you gift it to the thai then its completely legal. If you try to secure it with fake loans and whatever else civil contracts then it might be seen as circumvent Thai land laws.

If you make a 'gift' of a property to a Thai with the quid pro quo that you will then receive a usufruct or 30 year lease for substantially less than fair market value, then that might be considered an attempt to circumvent Thai land laws against foreign ownership should that arrangement ever be challenged as the recipient of the 'gift' might be considered as a nominee given her subsequent dealings with said property.

Why would anyone but a nominee buy a property for $10,000 and then execute a usufruct for lifetime use of and other rights to that property for $100?

[samsung99]

No, because you dont try to own the land.The thai owner owns it all the time. If you gift it to the thai then its completely legal. If you try to secure it with fake loans and whatever else civil contracts then it might be seen as circumvent Thai land laws.

If you make a 'gift' of a property to a Thai with the quid pro quo that you will then receive a usufruct or 30 year lease for substantially less than fair market value, then that might be considered an attempt to circumvent Thai land laws against foreign ownership should that arrangement ever be challenged as the recipient of the 'gift' might be considered as a nominee given her subsequent dealings with said property.

Why would anyone but a nominee buy a property for $10,000 and then execute a usufruct for lifetime use of and other rights to that property for $100?

Interesting! This is why my lawyer told me that we should not give the usefruct for free but put some real numbers into the usefruct. In this case i guess i will have to pay some taxes at the land office, but it will look more natural and therefore it will have better chances to survive in a possible crackdown on usefructs in thailand.

[JLCrab]

As written above, if the usufruct is granted based on a fair market value for the property, that is copacetic.

[bangkoklawyer24]

The Top 5 legal misconceptions on usufructs in Thailand are

1. A usufruct between a married couple is legally compliant and protected.
2. A usufruct for free is not very risky for various reasons.
3. A usufruct can be enhanced by a contractual agreement.
4. The usufruct of the foreign husband is no marital property.
5. A structure with two usufructuaries provides for even better protection.

Source: http://linkd.in/1LQ9xlK

[samsung99]

The Top 5 legal misconceptions on usufructs in Thailand are

• A usufruct between a married couple is legally compliant and protected.
• A usufruct for free is not very risky for various reasons.
• A usufruct can be enhanced by a contractual agreement.
• The usufruct of the foreign husband is no marital property.
• A structure with two usufructuaries provides for even better protection.

Source: http://linkd.in/1LQ9xlK

My conclusion out of the excellent article that you quoted:

Do the usefruct before youre getting married

Dont do it for free

And then its relatively bullet proof.... The dodgy company owned houses will go down way before such a usefruct will be tested.IMO

[huawei]

As written above, if the usufruct is granted based on a fair market value for the property, that is copacetic.

Yes.yes.and yes. This was advise I was given 20+ years ago. International law firm who advised the company I worked for.

Some like to think it's just a freebie type transaction to circumvent the law.

In the end I just put the property in the wife's name..but then we had been married for 12 years and had children.

In the end if things go wrong , you are in a village that you knew nothing about before you met her, why would you want to stay anyway..

[mango66]

Just brilliant I tell ya.

I know a guy who did all of this right and had it sewn up for life. That is until his now ex girlfriend's "brothers" showed up and convinced him that a new "health" issue demanded that he clear out and not come back - ever. The GF sold the house and what is he to do when he doesn't dare even go around there?

We don't have the same rule of law or other protections in LOS as we do in our home countries. If there was a sure-fire way to own a house in Thailand for life it would be done every day but it isn't. Some guys just think they do - for now.

"Don't invest anything in Thailand you aren't prepared to walk away from."

Cheers.

Another bar stool story from somebody who not only doesn't have first hand experience of the issue but also doesn't live in Thailand, never has and one who takes every opportunity to bash any aspect of Thailand that he can get.

"If there was a sure-fire way to own a house in Thailand for life it would be done every day but it isn't". How do you know it isn't, if you talk to people at any Land Office they'll tell you it's a very common occurrence.

N.S.

Could not cut it here and now he needs to justify that.. nothing new here seen it often. I know of a guy in the US who had his family killed in one of the many mass shootings. Now does that mean the US is a bad place ?

with or without shooting !

I would count US as one of the worst place to live !!

yes,

I have also seen some of worsed !!

Kim Jong Il, KJ Un - 3 times !!

[BEVUP]

-snip-

But my understanding is that if the usufruct is between spouses then either of them can cancel unilaterally.

We seem to have about 100 threads regarding corruption in Thailand before we have another one that assures how a farang can own land and house in Thailand.

I was roundly thrashed for an earlier post but I don't mind. I'm my own man and I can afford to live anywhere I wish and travel anywhere I wish. I didn't get that way by being dumb.

The GF can take out a loan with a loan shark "subject to the lease" and that loan shark won't respect the lease at all. The farang will be gone one way or another after the loan shark takes ownership of that home when payments aren't made. I know someone that happened to.

The home ownership can also be taken for gambling debts and the farang will be gone.

These loan sharks, game runners and new boyfriends have no respect for the law and they know that a brown envelope will clear the title for them. How hard is it to get documents affirming that the farang hasn't made lease payments or even been around for the required time even if the statements are lies?

There is no assurance for a farang in Thailand - not even an assurance that he will be allowed to continue as an expat. There are too many bad scenarios that can be put into place if the Thais decide they want the farang gone, and they do look out for each other and work their corruption together.

Cheers.

I think you missed the point mate. It appears the OP wants advice from people that have first hand experience on this topic. Not hearsay from a bloke that doesn't live here but knows a guy, who has a friend whose girlfriend allegedly did.. That is all barstool BS. If you want to Thai bash go right ahead but as you don't know what your talking about and can't add anything constructive to the debate why not do it elsewhere. On an Americans who don't like Thailand forum perhaps...Cheers

Well Starky im sure Never sure has sumed up some of the possible scenarios in real life

i wouldnt call it BS as it certainly can be true

EG ; Wife/GF hands over chanute for brother/sis or whoever to borrow money (obviously not from a bank) They fail to pay by the time specified (printed on chanute) which also has the Falang Usufrut in his/her name

Come time to pay when the loaner comes yelling at the house PAY OR I WILL SELL Guess what - He chose to sell regardless of the farangs Usufrut since he now owns the Chanute

As i said before expereinced it with my own eyes been coming to thailand for 8 years & married for 7

Asked the wife what the people wanted who turned up to house as i was pulling of the flag poles - OH they were just asking where the boundries were (loaner sent them around ) since the old family house sits right in the middle of one

[Furryman]

Usufruct agreements in Thailand.pdf

A rather deviating legal viewpoint can be found at LinkedIn: The Usufruct in Thailand

http://linkd.in/1LQ9xlK

The info in both of those documents seemed to line up, but I only gave them a quick read. Where do they deviate?

Seems to me the key to making it work is finding a willing property owner with property in an area where the local office will actually register the agreement, and making sure that you don't marry the property owner.

[huawei]

If you need a work around, then there is a problem..quite simple really. As a proviso I think usefructs/ leases are ok in developed areas and but in rural Thailand with all the social dynamics that go on there no protection really.