'Brave decision needed' on stripping Thaksin's rank

[user82374298374]

Look at Singapore after 50 years of concentrated efforts to educate their people.

Most Singaporeans can be considered 'educated' only in relation to Thais, unless they've studied extensively abroad and had the wit to actually apply themselves and learn. The rubbish they learn as history, politics, the arts, et. al. is a bit less distorted and incomplete.

Singapore is a deeply corrupt country, as well. But, having been associated with the UK, they have politesse and tend to prefer their corruption wholesale, instead of retail as in Thailand. It's also a tiny place.

The same is true of Japan - the U.S. occupation after the Second World War simply taught them to hide it better.

It's less true of the RoK; they aren't as smooth as the Singaporeans and Japanese.

The simple fact is that all Asian societies are corrupt, by Western standards, and one has less of a chance to avoid the official propaganda and learn actual facts, logic, history, and so forth than in the West. What Westerners view as 'corruption' is deemed a moral imperative in Asian societies, as one is obligated to do whatever one can to advance the interests of one's family/tribe/clan/patronage network/region, in that order.

[halloween]

In connection to this thread:

what is actually the limitation period for all his "crimes"? Would he be allowed once to enter the country as a free man? Or is he life time banned from coming home

There is SoL for a convicted fugitive. Whether the SoL apllies to his other cases, where charges have been laid but court proceedings halted by his absence, is another matter.

[halloween]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Seems a lot of Americans think their law should apply everywhere, much like a lot of muslims want shariah law everywhere. Most of us don't want either.

Thaksin and his wife are the same legal entity, so she had to get written permission from him to buy the land. Him granting that permission was abuse of office, as advised by his lawyer. The purchase was made null and void (very generously IMHO), does that void his abuse of office?

[Skeptic7]

He should have been stripped of all rank six years ago. The "bravest" decision was letting him leave the country in 2008 to attend the Beijing Olympics, on his promise (wink wink) that he would return afterwards. Everyone KNEW he wasn't retuning. I knew he wasn't returning. Following the opening ceremonies, he fled to London and has been globetrotting ever since. Quite a distinguished political record the Shinawatra family has gained for themselves!

[sweatalot]

In connection to this thread:

what is actually the limitation period for all his "crimes"? Would he be allowed once to enter the country as a free man? Or is he life time banned from coming home

AFAIK he was never forbidden to enter Thailand.

He just don't want because if he - a convicted criminal - enters the country prison would wait for him

and he seems not to be sure that he could avoid that by bribing.

Edited August 11, 2015 by sweatalot

[mango66]

WE EXACTLY KNOW WHAT HAVE rtp DONE ON THE BOMBINGS ON FREEDOM PROTESTERS ?

nOTHING; AS THEY KNOW DEFINITLY WHO WERE BEHIND 1

aND WE ALSO KNOW BEHIND WHOM THE RTP WANT TO BE !!!!

RTP is rotten from the roots,

to kill such a tree,

you have to BULLDOZE out this roots and burn in fire !!

[SOTIRIOS]

...nobody dare speak the truth or demand any justice....

[billd766]

In connection to this thread:

what is actually the limitation period for all his "crimes"? Would he be allowed once to enter the country as a free man? Or is he life time banned from coming home

AFAIK he was never forbidden to enter Thailand.

He just don't want because if he - a convicted criminal - enters the country prison would wait for him

and he seems not to be sure that he could avoid that by bribing.

Thaksin can return To Thailand at any time HE wishes to do so, passport or no pasport. Even with no passport he can apply to the Thai embassy anywhere in the world and he will be granted a document that will allow him to return to Thailand and I think that most airlines would honour that once he has paid for his ticket. Alternatively he could return on his private jet without hassle from any airport departure.

Once he lands then both his and the governments problems would really start. He would not be easily given up by his adoring fans and the government would have to use the Army to get to him.

The RTP would do what they best and hide from sight and have nothing to do with it.

I fear that should this happen there would be a lot of deaths and injuries on both sides though the army would win in this instance. I also feel that if that happens there will be a civil war in Thailand between Issan and the rest of the country.

It would also set back whatever reconciliation there is at present by 50 to 100 years.

All of this for the sake of one mans ego and face.

[billd766]

WE EXACTLY KNOW WHAT HAVE rtp DONE ON THE BOMBINGS ON FREEDOM PROTESTERS ?

nOTHING; AS THEY KNOW DEFINITLY WHO WERE BEHIND 1

aND WE ALSO KNOW BEHIND WHOM THE RTP WANT TO BE !!!!

RTP is rotten from the roots,

to kill such a tree,

you have to BULLDOZE out this roots and burn in fire !!

Try not to shout too loudly as not everyone is deaf.

[harada]

Care factor 0.00%

[rubl]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

1 - You are comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

2 - As a Certified Para-Legal in 3 states (Indiana, Ohio, California), I think my understanding of the law is probably a hell of a lot better than yours.

The deal was annulled. The proceedings leading to the deal still stand.

[Baerboxer]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

1 - You are comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

2 - As a Certified Para-Legal in 3 states (Indiana, Ohio, California), I think my understanding of the law is probably a hell of a lot better than yours.

Whoopee do for you. Thankfully the laws of Indiana, Ohio and California aren't World Law, and neither is any US law. Or do you think they are?

I'll keep my UK law degrees, thanks. But wouldn't dream of saying it's either the same as or in some way superior to Thai law, as you seem to think your 3 states is.

Para-legal - is that some kind of lawyer's aid over there?

Edited August 12, 2015 by Baerboxer

[robblok]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

1 - You are comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

2 - As a Certified Para-Legal in 3 states (Indiana, Ohio, California), I think my understanding of the law is probably a hell of a lot better than yours.

The conviction still stand for him.. and that is the only thing that counts, plus that in the past in other cases of corrupt policemen who were no longer in service were stripped of their ranks too. That sets precedents, im sure your familiar with that too as a Para Legal.

[Baerboxer]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

There should be an interpol arrest warrant out for him. He should be returned to Thailand in shackles and made to face all the other charges against him. Stripping him of his cop rank should be easy, just do it as the Nike ad says.

But money talks and he has made too many 'influential' red shirts rich. The gravy train must keep running.

Do you really think Interpol are interested in person who was convicted of a shady land deal? Especially when most of the west believes the charges were politically motivated? More importantly, do you really think Interpol should stop trying to track down terrorists, international drug cartels, international money laundering, murderers and other assorted career criminals to arrest Thaksin? You need to get out more.

Interpol will be interested if Thailand, a member country, bothers to complete the relevant request forms.

How many Interpol officers / agents do you think are actively trying to track anyone down? Have a look at what their real function is and how they operate. (Not the same as what's in some films and TV progs).

Would you like to evidence your statement that the West believes the charges were politically motivated? Robin Amsterdam's view doesn't count.

And do the West believe the attempted bribery of the judges was o k? And that the conviction was politically motivated too? And that breaking promises and jumping bail are o k?

Politically motivated - when one of his own owned parties were in power and his brother in law PM?

Or perhaps he knowingly broke a law he thought inconvenient or unimportant, got caught, prosecuted, convicted and ran off before sentencing, Maybe, had he stayed he'd have got away with a suspended sentence? We shall never know, Perhaps he was more worried about a charge of bribery, attempting to pervert the course of justice or all those 15 other charges.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Skeptic7]

In connection to this thread:

what is actually the limitation period for all his "crimes"? Would he be allowed once to enter the country as a free man? Or is he life time banned from coming home

He has never been forbidden from returning to Thailand. He is in self-imposed exile and welcome to return at any time.

[Alwyn]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

There should be an interpol arrest warrant out for him. He should be returned to Thailand in shackles and made to face all the other charges against him. Stripping him of his cop rank should be easy, just do it as the Nike ad says.

But money talks and he has made too many 'influential' red shirts rich. The gravy train must keep running.

Do you really think Interpol are interested in person who was convicted of a shady land deal? Especially when most of the west believes the charges were politically motivated? More importantly, do you really think Interpol should stop trying to track down terrorists, international drug cartels, international money laundering, murderers and other assorted career criminals to arrest Thaksin? You need to get out more.

Interpol will be interested if Thailand, a member country, bothers to complete the relevant request forms.

How many Interpol officers / agents do you think are actively trying to track anyone down? Have a look at what their real function is and how they operate. (Not the same as what's in some films and TV progs).

Would you like to evidence your statement that the West believes the charges were politically motivated? Robin Amsterdam's view doesn't count.

And do the West believe the attempted bribery of the judges was o k? And that the conviction was politically motivated too? And that breaking promises and jumping bail are o k?

Politically motivated - when one of his own owned parties were in power and his brother in law PM?

Or perhaps he knowingly broke a law he thought inconvenient or unimportant, got caught, prosecuted, convicted and ran off before sentencing, Maybe, had he stayed he'd have got away with a suspended sentence? We shall never know, Perhaps he was more worried about a charge of bribery, attempting to pervert the course of justice or all those 15 other charges.

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

[rubl]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

There should be an interpol arrest warrant out for him. He should be returned to Thailand in shackles and made to face all the other charges against him. Stripping him of his cop rank should be easy, just do it as the Nike ad says.

But money talks and he has made too many 'influential' red shirts rich. The gravy train must keep running.

Do you really think Interpol are interested in person who was convicted of a shady land deal? Especially when most of the west believes the charges were politically motivated? More importantly, do you really think Interpol should stop trying to track down terrorists, international drug cartels, international money laundering, murderers and other assorted career criminals to arrest Thaksin? You need to get out more.

Interpol will be interested if Thailand, a member country, bothers to complete the relevant request forms.

How many Interpol officers / agents do you think are actively trying to track anyone down? Have a look at what their real function is and how they operate. (Not the same as what's in some films and TV progs).

Would you like to evidence your statement that the West believes the charges were politically motivated? Robin Amsterdam's view doesn't count.

And do the West believe the attempted bribery of the judges was o k? And that the conviction was politically motivated too? And that breaking promises and jumping bail are o k?

Politically motivated - when one of his own owned parties were in power and his brother in law PM?

Or perhaps he knowingly broke a law he thought inconvenient or unimportant, got caught, prosecuted, convicted and ran off before sentencing, Maybe, had he stayed he'd have got away with a suspended sentence? We shall never know, Perhaps he was more worried about a charge of bribery, attempting to pervert the course of justice or all those 15 other charges.

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

Indeed, people in the West know that the first thing a politician caught with his hand in the cookiejar will shout is "mis-representing by political motivated opponents".

So, "conflict of interest", too rich to be corrupt and too greedy to stop private business while as PM he should serve the whole country, not just himself.

BTW the process was proceeding nicely till Thaksin asked for and was granted permission to go the watch the Bejing Olympic Games. He was granted bail and he gave his promise to return immediately after the games. He jumped bail. As the case had proceeded very far already and with Thaksin's legal team still attending the court could conclude. They convicted him of "conflict of interest' and sentenced him to two years imprisonment. Thaksin had one month to appeal the verdict, but he didn't order his legal team to do so.

Edited August 12, 2015 by rubl

[halloween]

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

what difference does the motivation of the prosecution make if the facts prove you are guilty? Why should I believe the BS that someone writes in a book, when the fact that Thaksin abused his position and ignored electoral law was clear and obvious?

He was convicted in absentia after his bribes didn't work and he skipped bail, which somehow lacks evidence of his innocence or persecution.

[Alwyn]

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

what difference does the motivation of the prosecution make if the facts prove you are guilty? Why should I believe the BS that someone writes in a book, when the fact that Thaksin abused his position and ignored electoral law was clear and obvious?

He was convicted in absentia after his bribes didn't work and he skipped bail, which somehow lacks evidence of his innocence or persecution.

What you believe or don't believe makes no impact on my life! You probably believe Suthep isn't bent either

[billd766]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

There should be an interpol arrest warrant out for him. He should be returned to Thailand in shackles and made to face all the other charges against him. Stripping him of his cop rank should be easy, just do it as the Nike ad says.

But money talks and he has made too many 'influential' red shirts rich. The gravy train must keep running.

Do you really think Interpol are interested in person who was convicted of a shady land deal? Especially when most of the west believes the charges were politically motivated? More importantly, do you really think Interpol should stop trying to track down terrorists, international drug cartels, international money laundering, murderers and other assorted career criminals to arrest Thaksin? You need to get out more.

Interpol will be interested if Thailand, a member country, bothers to complete the relevant request forms.

How many Interpol officers / agents do you think are actively trying to track anyone down? Have a look at what their real function is and how they operate. (Not the same as what's in some films and TV progs).

Would you like to evidence your statement that the West believes the charges were politically motivated? Robin Amsterdam's view doesn't count.

And do the West believe the attempted bribery of the judges was o k? And that the conviction was politically motivated too? And that breaking promises and jumping bail are o k?

Politically motivated - when one of his own owned parties were in power and his brother in law PM?

Or perhaps he knowingly broke a law he thought inconvenient or unimportant, got caught, prosecuted, convicted and ran off before sentencing, Maybe, had he stayed he'd have got away with a suspended sentence? We shall never know, Perhaps he was more worried about a charge of bribery, attempting to pervert the course of justice or all those 15 other charges.

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

He was convicted in abstentia and sentenced to 2 years jail.

What you neatly failed to mention is that the reason he was not present in court is that he had skipped bail and fled the country. If he was in the court he would still have been sentenced to jail. The problem for him then being in jail the other 15 charges would have been heard and he would have received much more jail time.

It was not a political decision as he broke the law. Now whether you or the western countries like or agree with that law is immaterial, as it is a law in Thailand which is where Thaksin broke it and received his punishment and not in the west where a lot of laws are different.

Contrary to many western countries including the USA one size does NOT fit all whether it is clothes, cars, laws or democracy.

As for quote "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

Firstly Thaksin has only faith ib Thaksin, secondly there was never full and proper democracy under any Thaksin government and thirdly his political parties broke the law which is why they were disbanded.

Thaksin was NEVER hounded into exile. He fled justice by skipping bail and has always been free to return to Thailand at any time. He will not return unless he is guaranteed an amnesty for all his crimes and allowed to run the country HIS way.

Sure his assets were confiscated but under the PTP government they were returned to him. In fact his fortune, large as it was increased by 450% while his sister was in power. How many poor farmers can sa y that.

[billd766]

The reason he is welcomed in a lot of western countries (unlike Prayuth at the moment) is because they know his prosecution was politically motivated. You should read 'Saints and Sinners' and brush up a bit. Here's a quote from the book "Thaksin had put his faith in democracy and elections, he was clearly unaware of the Arab proverb - the quickest way to jail is to win an election. In an attempt to destroy Thaksin he was prosecuted, hounded into exile, his assets confiscated, and his political parties twice disbanded"

He was convicted in absentia and sentenced to two years wasn't he?

what difference does the motivation of the prosecution make if the facts prove you are guilty? Why should I believe the BS that someone writes in a book, when the fact that Thaksin abused his position and ignored electoral law was clear and obvious?

He was convicted in absentia after his bribes didn't work and he skipped bail, which somehow lacks evidence of his innocence or persecution.

What you believe or don't believe makes no impact on my life! You probably believe Suthep isn't bent either

Ahh the but but but Suthep excuse once again.

You may not have noticed but this thread is not actually about Suthep which makes your post

[bamukloy]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

1 - You are comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

2 - As a Certified Para-Legal in 3 states (Indiana, Ohio, California), I think my understanding of the law is probably a hell of a lot better than yours.

only in Thailand indeed. Where you will see two foriegners arguing an issue in a place they have no pull or voting rites, and applying laws from a completely seperate country that has absolutely no relevance to Thailand whatsoever.

zzzzz