'Brave decision needed' on stripping Thaksin's rank

[halloween]

They also know that nearly every country bans office holders and their families from buying government assets.

Then nullify the sale, try the wife, repossess the land.

"But, but, but..."

I am a Thaksin-disliker, but for goodness sake use the law properly.

Staging a coup, when he is outside the country is amazingly criminal, not to say cowardly. to convict him of a meaningless "crime" smacks of political retribution.

Exactly, whoever signs off on it is a marked man

Unfortunately, only one man "can sign off on this". There's the rub.

Thaksin's lawyer knew the purchase was illegal but he went ahead anyway, because he thought the worst that would happen is that people would ignore the crime. How is taking the land back but NOT prosecuting the offender using the law properly? Is that the the DIFFERENT law for the rich and powerful, like Yingluk's perjury?

Edited August 11, 2015 by halloween

[Seastallion]

Perhaps i am stupid, why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

And is he drawing a pension ?????

[halloween]

BP has a photo of Thaksin in his white jacket with all his rank and badges. Strip them and people might think he's selling ice cream.

[klauskunkel]

Brave, fearless and courageous officials:

[Jip99]

Perhaps i am stupid, why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Indeed..... and never mind "not working", surely a convicted criminal would automatically be stripped of such titles.

[jesimps]

Brave decision my rear end, don't keep talking about it, just do it. I'm sure Thaksin doesn't give a toss. Talk about "bigging" something up.

[jesimps]

Prayut assigned the Justice Ministry to take over after the police made no headway. Police rules call for an officer convicted of a crime to have his rank revoked. In 2008, Thaksin was sentenced to two years in jail for abuse of authority while he was premier.

Seems clear to me, why should people who are not in the force protected from this. Just feet dragging worrying about what will happen if PTP gets into power. This is something that should have been done long ago but with the PTP in power there was never a chance. The punishment for anyone to touch Thaksin then would have been immense. Just do it now, he will loose a lot face that way and with an ego like his that must hurt a lot.

The guy is just using the he was not in service as an excuse.. worried about his future. We all know how vindictive Thaksin was so I cant blame him 100%.

"he will lose a lot of face that way"

What utter nonsense. I bet he couldn't care less. He may even take it back one day. Who knows?

[jesimps]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

quote from a news story at the time:

The ruling on Tuesday was made by a special nine-member bench of the Supreme Court known as the Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions. The judges ruled 5 to 4 that Mr. Thaksin abused his power when his wife, Pojaman, purchased a plot of desirable land from a government agency controlled by the central bank.

The judges ruled that because Mr. Thaksin was prime minister he was supposed to work for the benefit of the public.

Prosecutors had argued that the amount his wife paid, about $22 million, was well below market value, but that argument appeared to fail. Ms. Pojaman was acquitted of all charges and the judges did not order the couple to forfeit the land, as prosecutors had requested.

I think that outside of a few rabid dogs, most in the international and domestic communities see this "conviction" as political. Hence the cries to bring him back in shackles fall on deaf ears.

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

You forget all the other crimes he still needs to be tried for that is what he is on the run for and these are far more serious.

If it were possible for him to be tried by a neutral court I'm sure he'd return willingly.

[Toscano]

" Let Sleeping Dogs Lie " Why make waves on a calm sea ! If Thaksin needed to draw a Lt.Col's. pension there may be some point , but he is a rich man who doesn't need to draw a police pension .

The Red Shirts and the Yellow shirts aren't causing any trouble , Thaksin is living far away in Dubai , so why cause a stir over what is clearly a trivial , petty , spiteful , vindictive legal action , that will not enhance the esteem of Thailand . The police chief's concern is that creating a new law to stip former police officers of rank would apply to all police officers , not just Thaksin . Such a law could be open to abuse in the future . The more General Prayut seeks to crush and stamp out any semblance of Shinawatra , the more he will highlight the image of Thaksin .

[apetley]

I don't understand why this is so difficult when it seems the whole country, aside from some Red Shirts, hates this guy. The most important part is the people in charge hate him. I know that some Issan people aren't happy with him, so why is this so difficult?

Thaksin still has a great deal of influence within the police ranks, especially the very senior officers so when it is up to the police themselves to strip him of his rank expect delay after delay.

[kingalfred]

Being a criminal in Thailand doesnt make them a "bad" person. And the morons up north dont care what takky has done bad.

Edited August 11, 2015 by kingalfred

[NickJ]

Let him keep his police rank....Strip him of his wealth instead...........

[baboon]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

quote from a news story at the time:

The ruling on Tuesday was made by a special nine-member bench of the Supreme Court known as the Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions. The judges ruled 5 to 4 that Mr. Thaksin abused his power when his wife, Pojaman, purchased a plot of desirable land from a government agency controlled by the central bank.

The judges ruled that because Mr. Thaksin was prime minister he was supposed to work for the benefit of the public.

Prosecutors had argued that the amount his wife paid, about $22 million, was well below market value, but that argument appeared to fail. Ms. Pojaman was acquitted of all charges and the judges did not order the couple to forfeit the land, as prosecutors had requested.

I think that outside of a few rabid dogs, most in the international and domestic communities see this "conviction" as political. Hence the cries to bring him back in shackles fall on deaf ears.

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

You forget all the other crimes he still needs to be tried for that is what he is on the run for and these are far more serious.

I don't doubt your statement, however I feel he would never stand trial for any 'proper' crime as he could probably drag an awful lot of very important people down with him, and let's face it, we are talking VERY important in some cases.

I wonder what English John among others would have to say if he knew who and what we are talking about...?

[Bting]

He is a convicted criminal

And that is ALL that is needed to strip his police rank.

The National Police Chief is lying when he says there are other issues to consider.

There is nothing that is "needing review".

National Police chief, denied delaying the decision, saying he referred the matter last month to the Council of State - the government's legal advisory arm - as there were some issues needing review.

[Bting]

The headline speaks volumes about the influence that Thaksin still has

If the "powers that be" wanted Thaksin stripped of Royally-bestowed honors it would have been done already.

That is not the issue, it's his police rank that is the issue.

However, having said that, both his police rank and Royal Awards are to be removed/returned when someone is convicted.

The powers that be to do so are the Police Commission, however they have not fulfilled their duties for many years now, which is a testament to the powers that Police still wield in this country and the connection between them and Thaksin.

[Bting]

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

You are absolutely wrong.

Royal Awards are to be removed upon a criminal conviction and jail sentence. Thaksin himself signed the rule into effect:

A PM's Office decree endorsed by then-PM Thaksin in August 2005 gives eight criteria for the recalling of royal decorations, including if a person is convicted by the highest court and ordered to serve time in prison.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/24/politics/politics_30086726.php

[Traveling Sailor]

Brave, courageous decisions ?

It can be a nightmare just getting any kind of decision here because everyone has the eye on the future, their own future and therefore considers the implications of making, not making, a decision.

The faffing about over this ' nothing ' situation just shows this country up for what it is or, more appropriately, what it isn't.

Time to start a nationwide search for someone with big, brass ones. That's all that's needed to get the job done. Hope they can find someone.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Traveling Sailor

[halloween]

" Let Sleeping Dogs Lie " Why make waves on a calm sea ! If Thaksin needed to draw a Lt.Col's. pension there may be some point , but he is a rich man who doesn't need to draw a police pension .

The Red Shirts and the Yellow shirts aren't causing any trouble , Thaksin is living far away in Dubai , so why cause a stir over what is clearly a trivial , petty , spiteful , vindictive legal action , that will not enhance the esteem of Thailand . The police chief's concern is that creating a new law to stip former police officers of rank would apply to all police officers , not just Thaksin . Such a law could be open to abuse in the future . The more General Prayut seeks to crush and stamp out any semblance of Shinawatra , the more he will highlight the image of Thaksin .

You seem a little confused. The law to strip convicted police and military officers of their rank already exists, has done for many years, and applies to all police officers, with the notable exception of Thaksin, so far at least.

[Anon999]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

quote from a news story at the time:

The ruling on Tuesday was made by a special nine-member bench of the Supreme Court known as the Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions. The judges ruled 5 to 4 that Mr. Thaksin abused his power when his wife, Pojaman, purchased a plot of desirable land from a government agency controlled by the central bank.

The judges ruled that because Mr. Thaksin was prime minister he was “supposed to work for the benefit of the public.”

Prosecutors had argued that the amount his wife paid, about $22 million, was well below market value, but that argument appeared to fail. Ms. Pojaman was acquitted of all charges and the judges did not order the couple to forfeit the land, as prosecutors had requested.

I think that outside of a few rabid dogs, most in the international and domestic communities see this "conviction" as political. Hence the cries to bring him back in shackles fall on deaf ears.

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

Royally bestowed honours are not life long in the UK. More than one person has had them rescinded, therefore there is no reason why that should not happen here.

[Bting]

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

Royally bestowed honours are not life long in the UK. More than one person has had them rescinded, therefore there is no reason why that should not happen here.

It was an untruthful claim he made.

Royally bestowed honours are not life long in Thailand also.

[sweatalot]

Apply the law, not so difficult, if there is provision to apply after leaving that office then apply the law, if not then there is no case.

Why is there a seemingly political will to this issue? rather than concentrate on much bigger and important issues for the country?

Exactly, the country is going down hill faster than the Aussies at Trent Bridge and this is the hot topic. Surely there are more important things to be done.

You are right - there are more important things to be done - and I see some of them already on their way and there is no reason not to trust that there will be more to come

But stripping a criminal from its police rank (which seems to be law) should not be a big issue.

The question is who makes it a big issue. Obviously not the PM

Edited August 11, 2015 by sweatalot

[Just1Voice]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

[Baerboxer]

To the Powers That Be,

Dear Sirs,

Please consider the full implications for Thailand when the situation is that it takes "courage" to enforce the law against a corrupt, shit-stirring fugitive criminal. Most developed countries have no problem applying the law. Someone commits a crime, they face the full consequences.

To skirt around applying the law, to procrastinate, to prevaricate, is a symptom of a deep underlying problem.

Take Thailand forward. Apply the law to all law-breakers, without hesitation and with no compromise. If you don't, Thailand will continue to stagnate, and within your lifetime you will be seeing Thai being the menials of the more successful neighbours, Lao, Cambodia, and Burma.

Courage to enforce the law:

Like in the Blue Diamond case

Like in the missing HR lawyer case

Like in the Koh Tao murders case

Like in the Red Bull boy cop killing case

Like in the missing Billy case

Like in all those cases against people like Tarit, Jatouporn, Nattawut, Suthep etc etc that are seemingly in limbo

Like the Kirsty Jones case.

There is no real law enforcement here. Just a franchised business with uniformed armed thugs looking for opportunities to make money. And the amounts can be very very high.

[Baerboxer]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

[sammygood]

euh ... criminal on the run, but need courage to strip him of his decorations ???

thainess, guess we will never understand it

[Just1Voice]

Ok, here's something for all you "legal experts" to mull on. The courts later ruled the land deal by his wife was "Null and Void". Legally, that means it NEVER HAPPENED. She gave the land back, and she got her money back (plus interest), and that was the end of it. For those of you unfamiliar with legal jargon, if the deed is null and void, that also means all actions leading up to the deed also legally NEVER HAPPENED. Therefore, Thaksin's conviction for illegal actions in relation to this case should also be null and void as, legally, THEY NEVER HAPPENED. In most civilized countries, if this had been the court ruling, his conviction would have automatically thrown out.

I'm not defending him, but merely pointing out the law. Or rather, what SHOULD be the law. But this is Thailand, where the law is applied arbitrarily in far too many cases.

Why don't you rob a bank. If by some unlucky chance you get caught, just give the money back and tell them it means your crime is now null and void. Let us know how you get on

Your analysis of the law is flawed - more Hollywood than what would happen in most civilized countries.

1 - You are comparing apples to oranges. Doesn't work.

2 - As a Certified Para-Legal in 3 states (Indiana, Ohio, California), I think my understanding of the law is probably a hell of a lot better than yours.

[sawadee1947]

In connection to this thread:

what is actually the limitation period for all his "crimes"? Would he be allowed once to enter the country as a free man? Or is he life time banned from coming home

[Alwyn]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

There should be an interpol arrest warrant out for him. He should be returned to Thailand in shackles and made to face all the other charges against him. Stripping him of his cop rank should be easy, just do it as the Nike ad says.

But money talks and he has made too many 'influential' red shirts rich. The gravy train must keep running.

Do you really think Interpol are interested in person who was convicted of a shady land deal? Especially when most of the west believes the charges were politically motivated? More importantly, do you really think Interpol should stop trying to track down terrorists, international drug cartels, international money laundering, murderers and other assorted career criminals to arrest Thaksin? You need to get out more.

[English 1]

What nonsense to say a person cannot have his Police rank revoked as he is not serving in the Police!

It's obvious that this is not being dealt with properly.

Pathetic!

[billd766]

Thaksin is a convicted criminal on the run.

quote from a news story at the time:

The ruling on Tuesday was made by a special nine-member bench of the Supreme Court known as the Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions. The judges ruled 5 to 4 that Mr. Thaksin abused his power when his wife, Pojaman, purchased a plot of desirable land from a government agency controlled by the central bank.

The judges ruled that because Mr. Thaksin was prime minister he was supposed to work for the benefit of the public.

Prosecutors had argued that the amount his wife paid, about $22 million, was well below market value, but that argument appeared to fail. Ms. Pojaman was acquitted of all charges and the judges did not order the couple to forfeit the land, as prosecutors had requested.

I think that outside of a few rabid dogs, most in the international and domestic communities see this "conviction" as political. Hence the cries to bring him back in shackles fall on deaf ears.

why does he even have a rank if he is no longer working in the police force ?

Royally-bestowed honors are life-long.

You forget all the other crimes he still needs to be tried for that is what he is on the run for and these are far more serious.

If it were possible for him to be tried by a neutral court I'm sure he'd return willingly.

Well he was charged, tried and convicted under the government of the PPP run by his brother in law, Somchai Wongsawat. It couldn't get much fairer than that. But just to tip the scales of justice in a neutral manner several of his lawyers attempted to bribe the court with 2,000,000 baht hidden in a cake box.

Would you have said that was a political crime too?

In reality Thaksin will only return to Thailand if ALL his crimes are whitewashed away, he is given an Amnesty and is guaranteed to be allowed to run the country HIS way. That is what the whole of the PTP government was all about.