Dependant.......how old?

[PoolHustler]

I have been obtaining a Dependant Extension for the last 4 years as I am looking after my half thai son, I have full custody of him.

My question is how long can I go on claiming the dependant extension with him, he has just turned 18, is there an age limit.

Thanks

[paz]

The age limit is 20, except for disabled.

[ubonjoe]

If you are getting your extensions as a parent of a Thai there is no age limit.

[PoolHustler]

If you are getting your extensions as a parent of a Thai there is no age limit.

Yes my son is Thai, he is 18,

so I can carry on indefinitely getting visa extensions even though he may be looking after himself and working?

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

The written rules have no age limit for getting the extension. There are some offices that say it is 20 but they are misreading the rules.

There is even a line in the rules now that you are 50 or over you can be your child's dependent and be supported by them.

[PoolHustler]

thanks,

[paz]

I'm not sure why ubonjoe says there is no age limit. Below the regualations:

2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto: or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.

In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.

For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

Source:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

[ubonjoe]

(4) is for children getting extensions. All the requirements for getting the extension as a parent is in (5).

[Lite Beer]

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

[paz]

(4) is for children getting extensions. All the requirements for getting the extension as a parent is in (5).

Sorry, I remember we had this discussion already and agreed that the translation is wrong. Because:

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or

Now, putting aside the fact that who is son of a Thai national, is a Thai national also - except "spouse's children" perhaps.

If the "children" is a non-Thai, then who is the "alien" referenced that he has to be living with? It should then say "Thai national", not "alien".

I think someone should clarify the original language and publish a better translation.

[Maestro]

Clause 2.18(4) is definitely for cases where a child is the applicant for extension, ie a foreign child.

There also is definitely a translation error; "must live with the alien as part of the family" is not a correct translation.

[ubonjoe]

(4) is for children getting extensions. All the requirements for getting the extension as a parent is in (5).

Sorry, I remember we had this discussion already and agreed that the translation is wrong. Because:

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or

Now, putting aside the fact that who is son of a Thai national, is a Thai national also - except "spouse's children" perhaps.

If the "children" is a non-Thai, then who is the "alien" referenced that he has to be living with? It should then say "Thai national", not "alien".

I think someone should clarify the original language and publish a better translation.

The phrase living with the alien is basically correct. The parent of the children that are applying for the extension is an alien. They qualify for the extension because their parent is married to a Thai.

I cannot see how anybody could read (4) to mean that the Thai child of a parent applying for an extension under (5) cannot be over 20 unless that is how they want to read it.

[paz]

Thank you for the clarification ubonjoe.

[PoolHustler]

I renewed my extension Thursday based on my son as dependant and was told once he reaches 20yrs old we cannot continue with this type of extension.

Jomtien immigration

[paz]

I renewed my extension Thursday based on my son as dependant and was told once he reaches 20yrs old we cannot continue with this type of extension.

Jomtien immigration

Thanks for the update. I'm still curious about what could be in the Thai text that can support such a stance, since as noted above it should not be so.

Another point that has never been clear, after being refused an extension with valid requisites (I'm not talking about mere paperwork demands), what would be the recourse for someone that has the funds to pursue justice.

[Maestro]

The only way I can read clause 2.18 of Police Order 327/2557 is that in each and every case under this clause the applicant for the extension of stay is a foreigner, and in each and every case the applicant must be a "family member of a Thai national", ie live in the same household with this Thai national. In no case under clause 2.18 can the applicant be a Thai national, and in no case is the extension granted granted for the reason that the applicant is a family member of a foreigner. If one of the family members with whom the applicant lives happens to be a foreigner, this is irrelevant for the application for extension.

In case (3), the applicant is a foreigner and qualifies for the extension for the reason of being the spouse of the family member of Thai nationality, the applicant's spouse, with whom the applicant lives.

In case (4), the applicant is a foreign child not older than 20 years and qualifies for the extension for the reason of being the child, the adopted child or the child of the spouse of the family member of Thai nationality with whom the applicant lives, whereby this Thai family member can be a parent or the spouse of the parent. This implies that one of the spouses, the husband or the wife, can be a foreigner, but the other must be Thai, and it is for the reason of this Thai's nationality that the applicant qualifies for the extension.

In case (5), the applicant is a foreigner and is a parent of a Thai national, and qualifies for the extension of stay for the reason of living with his/her Thai child in the same household.

Regarding case (4), it is easy to understand how an adopted child or the child of a Thai national’s foreign spouse by a previous marriage can be a foreigner and therefore be in need an extension, but how can this be the case with a child of a Thai national? A law or other regulatory requirement is written to cover all eventualities, and on possibility I see is that both parents were foreigners at the time of the child’s birth and that at least one of the parents, but not the child, subsequently acquired Thai nationality through naturalisation.

Re-reading all this, I suddenly ask myself how it would be in the following cases of a foreign child of a Thai national’s foreign spouse

( a ) when the foreign spouse divorces or otherwise leaves the household of his/her Thai spouse but the foreign child remains with the Thai spouse. Is this perhaps what “must live with the alien as part of the family” could be about, ie that in such case the foreign child would no longer qualify for the extension?

( b ) when the foreign spouse divorces or otherwise leaves the household of his/her Thai spouse and his child also leaves that household and moves to live with the foreign parent. In my opinion, the child would no longer qualify for the extension under 2.18(4) because it would no longer “a family member of a Thai national”

Ask three different lawyers and you get five different answers, is what I think. For a start, the Thai text of Police order Police Order 327/2557 should be looked at.

Rimmer?

[paz]

I think that this has to do with the concept of Law and Justice in Thailand as in other less developed countries. We as Westerners are used to think that these essential values will eventually prevail, there is a defined legal framework are pro-bono lawyers to help the indigent, civil rights organizations etc. In Thailand all what you have is a motorbike taxi to bring you home, so to speak.

[Maestro]

...

( a ) when the foreign spouse divorces or otherwise leaves the household of his/her Thai spouse but the foreign child remains with the Thai spouse. Is this perhaps what “must live with the alien as part of the family” could be about, ie that in such case the foreign child would no longer qualify for the extension?

...

Forget about the part "must live with the alien as part of the family" above.

I cannot read Thai, which means that I look at Thai text as a picture, but I know that the original Thai text of Police Order 327/2557 uses the Thai text คนต่างด้าว for "alien" and I cannot find this anywhere in 2.18(4), but others please also have a close look.

[ubonjoe]

As said before clause (4) is not relevant when appalling under (5) as a parent of a Thai.

I think immigration is intentionally misreading clause 2.18 and using the age limit in (4) as a excuse to deny the application.

I think this line added to (5) when 327/2558 was issued makes it clear there is no age limit " In case the father or mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.". How could a child under 20 support their parent.

[Maestro]

You're right. I almost forgot that this topic is about the parent extension, ie 2.18(5)

We don't know the age of PoolHustler, ie the applicant for extension of stay, the parent of his Thai child aged 18. As Ubonjoe said, this extension rule gives no age limit for the child. If the applicant, the parent, meets the financial requirements (income of 40k per month or 400k in the bank) and lives in the same household with his Thai child, the parent can for example be 70 years old and the child 45, or the parent 47 and the child 22. That's what the rule says, and if an immigration office does not allow it then it is not following the rule correctly.