Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[kiwikeith]

IN most countries this case would have been thrown out, alone on the confessions being signed a month later by the tranlators who can't read or write and can not speak Thai or the b2's dialect very well.

[mcm991]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

[AleG]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

The information coming out of the courtroom has been overwhelmingly provided by the defense, so it's no surprise any damning evidence hasn't made it to the press or it has been downplayed.

This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt.

[AleG]

Linky read the actual statement by Khun Nakhon.

But Mr Chomphuchat said: “We think the case we have built is strong enough on its own.”

Fresh DNA samples were taken from the two defendants in the court on Tuesday of this week. The test results on those samples is being returned directly to the defence team.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/defence_team_reverse_demands_to_retest_dna_found_on_body_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4204183

The DNA retests they don't need is from the clothes hoe etc.

.

From the article:

"Defence lawyers had won the battle for the retesting of the DNA. The court had ruled that Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) should double check the Thai police’s findings."

The CIFS is independent of the police, directed (and co-founded) by Porntip Rojanasunan; after 11 months of demanding independent DNA testing and having Porntip do it they say they don't trust it or her.

This about face , IMO, indicates the defense doesn't want to touch the actual DNA evidence with a ten foot pole.

Actually it doesn't say that does it. Why dont you EVER write things how they have been spoken. A twist here and a twist there.

Firstly with regard to Pornthip theres no mention of her personally.

Secondly the lawyer stated:

"Nakhon Chomphuchat intimated that control of the re-testing procedure was the issue, as the results would not be directly returned to the defence, but to the police and then the court."

“This is a very sensitive issue,” said Mr Chomphuchat.

“The lawyers cannot speak of it. There is also a lot of debate in the lawyers’ team on this issue. But if they retest it we have no control over that testing process.”

Thirdly with regard to the DNA from the B2 they have control and this is what they said:

Fresh DNA samples were taken from the two defendants in the court on Tuesday of this week. The test results on those samples is being returned directly to the defence team.

“We need to give this information to our experts so they can use it to do their own analysis,” said Mr Chomphuchat. The lawyer did not elaborate on what analysis might be carried out on those samples, or what they might be tested against.

So its very clear that they do not want to be fourth hand with the results. They don't need the results its now irrelevant to the case because

Fifthly:

But Mr Chomphuchat said: “We think the case we have built is strong enough on its own.”

So He doesn't need them.... its irrelevant... They have everything they need to prove their case. His words not mine.

I am sat on the fence watching the show with an open mind. At the moment it seems to heavily in favour of the defence case. The prosecution have put together a jumble of people who cant read or write or speak the language.

You want to hope you never end up in a Thai jail cell AleG as you could possibly end up on trumped up charges..

P.S. What they cant control is if fluids have been introduced to the items in the last 11 months. Better to stick with the current results. As they don't match IMHO

Actually it does say that, I quoted the article verbatim.

The CFIS is headed by Pornthip Rojanasunan, that until a couple days ago was the darling of the "Justice" league and now it's not to be trusted.

Same thing happened with the UK police, they were hailed as the cavalry coming to save the day by the same people, they came, they released information that didn't fit the narrative and in a New York second they became public enemy number one.

The spin that they don't trust the results because they would go through the police (according to them) first doesn't hold water, they have requested Dr. Pornthip as a witness, if the independent laboratory she runs does the tests and the police then change the results then she can testify to that end.

But I spot what may be the problem, they have been asking for an independent test of the DNA, yet the lawyer says "But if they retest it we have no control over that testing process", it's not an independent test if they are controlling it.

[mcm991]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

The information coming out of the courtroom has been overwhelmingly provided by the defense, so it's no surprise any damning evidence hasn't made it to the press or it has been downplayed.

This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt.

That explanation does not pass my smell test.

There have been international and local reporters on the scene from day 1. If damning evidence was introduced ... I'm sure it would have been reported somewhere.

[newcomer71]

OT: make the work of moderators easy leaving troll, bashers, thread disrupters alone. Any reply to them just gives them importance and make them post more and more.

To ignore them is the power of who really cares about this case and its developments...

[sweatalot]

Seems they want to use the video of the fabricated reenactment as evidence?

Another thing comes to my mind:

May be they planned to use the fabricated DNA match as their trump card in the end of their performance

and this has been thwarted by the defense now indisputably having the proper DNA of the B2

btw if they have a match it would be very interesting from whom the matching DNA comes

[sweatalot]

OT: make the work of moderators easy leaving troll, bashers, thread disrupters alone. Any reply to them just gives them importance and make them post more and more.

To ignore them is the power of who really cares about this case and its developments...

just to add:

it seems to be the agenda of those trolls to incite unrest in this thread so that it will be closed by the mods, this way

wiping out as much trace as they can of this horrible subject in the internet

This is exactly what happened in the foregoing thread - and the trolls were those who liked the mods decision

So please just don't pay attention to them. I am happily using the ignore button

[smedly]

Something that has bugged me from day one is when looking at where the bodies where found , it appears there is accommodation very close by, now without being grotesque, I would imagine there was a lot of noise and commotion when these barbaric murders took place.. Surely people in said accomodation would have seen / heard something ( apart from the previously mentioned French 2 ) strange how it doesn't appear forthcoming as of yet.

well you mention the 2 French girls who gave statements to the police about what they heard and at what time, it could also be that David heard it too and went to investigate - that didn't end very well

There seems to be a lot of stuff that the police are aware of that doesn't fit with their story so they just ignore it and hide it from the defense - cctv - statements - timelines - deflections - witnesses that suddenly appear - interpreters that don't speak Thai ....................the list is endless

When I think of this case in my minds eye what I see is a 2" round hole and the police trying to hammer a 2ft square block in there, we can all see what is wrong every time they move the block - it is just never going to fit

[boomerangutang]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

The information coming out of the courtroom has been overwhelmingly provided by the defense, so it's no surprise any damning evidence hasn't made it to the press or it has been downplayed. This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt.

AleG asserts: "This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt."

Wake up call from Boomers: The government HAS BEEN orchestrating a large PR campaign to convince everyone of the B2's guilt. Are we following the same case? There were several press events in October, in particular, which had the gov't telling big lies to further its agenda. It's interesting that the police chief of chiefs, Somyot (remember him? the guy who appointed himself to head the KT investigation, just when it changed course 180 degrees to frame the B2) ....he's going to officially retire on the day the trial ends in late September.

Maybe we'll get an entertaining retirement speech, something like: "Thanks for the gold watches, guys, but how am I going to wear 147 Rolex gold watches?! (laughter all around). I'm already worth 350 million baht, and I earned that on a policeman's salary (more laughter from police brass in attendance). Seriously though, I took over the KT investigation a year ago, and the PM said we're all doing a perfect job (snickers ripple through the crowd). Some pesky farang on social media say I framed the two Burmese fellows and am protecting the Headman's people from legal scrutiny. Well they can all kiss my Rolex watches (laughter). I'm leaving now. I'm going to a rich farang country to spend my millions of baht. I leave you with the Ko Tao case, and I don't really care which way the judges rule. I can never be indicted for anything I did in that case, because I'm no longer in the active police force from this day onward. I'm outta here. Bye bye suckers."

[AleG]

The information coming out of the courtroom has been overwhelmingly provided by the defense, so it's no surprise any damning evidence hasn't made it to the press or it has been downplayed. This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt.

AleG asserts: "This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt."

Wake up call from Boomers: The government HAS BEEN orchestrating a large PR campaign to convince everyone of the B2's guilt. Are we following the same case? There were several press events in October, in particular, which had the gov't telling big lies to further its agenda. It's interesting that the police chief of chiefs, Somyot (remember him? the guy who appointed himself to head the KT investigation, just when it changed course 180 degrees to frame the B2) ....he's going to officially retire on the day the trial ends in late September.

Maybe we'll get an entertaining retirement speech, something like: "Thanks for the gold watches, guys, but how am I going to wear 147 Rolex gold watches?! (laughter all around). I'm already worth 350 million baht, and I earned that on a policeman's salary (more laughter from police brass in attendance). Seriously though, I took over the KT investigation a year ago, and the PM said we're all doing a perfect job (snickers ripple through the crowd). Some pesky farang on social media say I framed the two Burmese fellows and am protecting the Headman's people from legal scrutiny. Well they can all kiss my Rolex watches (laughter). I'm leaving now. I'm going to a rich farang country to spend my millions of baht. I leave you with the Ko Tao case, and I don't really care which way the judges rule. I can never be indicted for anything I did in that case, because I'm no longer in the active police force from this day onward. I'm outta here. Bye bye suckers."

So this large PR campaign to bolster the prosecution case consists of a press conference 10 months ago, right.

[smedly]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

everything you have said is entirely correct

nothing the police have presented so far would have made it through the gate of a western courthouse

remember that this case was submitted to prosecutors I think 4 times before it was accepted to trial - go figure

[smedly]

I'll revert back from my observer only status for a sec.

Can someone please put in point form for me the prosecution case which explains how they intend to get a conviction?

They have used up most of their time and so far I have seen nothing at all which points to the guilt of the B2.

There has been a lot of talk about DNA and the defence has pointed out huge issues with the collection and processing of the DNA but have the prosecution actually presented their findings which points to any DNA match between the B2 and the crime in question?

The whole confession seems to be a dead end - firstly because they recanted and secondly the confessions were signed off by people who could not possibly even have understood them.

What else has been presented in court by the prosecution that points to the guilt of the B2?

I have seen nothing at all.

Anyone? Please......

(edited for spelling)

The information coming out of the courtroom has been overwhelmingly provided by the defense, so it's no surprise any damning evidence hasn't made it to the press or it has been downplayed.

This of course runs contrary to the grand conspiracy theory of a government trying to stitch up these two men, since if that would be the case you'd have a large scale PR campaign on the media to convince people of their guilt.

the word "conspiracy" should be banned from this topic, what in fact you actually have is a lot of professionally experienced people giving their opinion of what is so very very wrong with what is going on in that court room - it really is a ridiculous sham on every level

[springheeled jack]

the police have had time to get their act together but i don't think they have there are so many inconsistencies in this case poor witnesses poor translators in fact the whole case is an absolute charade .

[happy Joe]

OT: make the work of moderators easy leaving troll, bashers, thread disrupters alone. Any reply to them just gives them importance and make them post more and more.

To ignore them is the power of who really cares about this case and its developments...

just to add:

it seems to be the agenda of those trolls to incite unrest in this thread so that it will be closed by the mods, this way

wiping out as much trace as they can of this horrible subject in the internet

This is exactly what happened in the foregoing thread - and the trolls were those who liked the mods decision

So please just don't pay attention to them. I am happily using the ignore button

Congratulations!

Discuss one way by eliminating all those who do not share your opinion speaks for itself.

Unlike you I observed this thread with great interest. How far will they go in blindness and denial of any objective observation to validate their conspiracy theory.

Next step I advise you to limit exchanges at your mirror for be well certain not to be contradicted. Meanwhile thank you for giving me the best opportunity for laugh in that rainy Sunday.

[oldsailor35]

Yup... Mai bpen rai... We have what we need. Now let my clients go and go find the REAL rapists /murde

But pay strict attention to the way a certain person walks.

[Thaidream]

The prosecution case is weak- DNA evidence has to be thrown out- no chain of custody. The Confessions are not valid as the defendants have recanted them. The so called 'interpreters' have been found to not be competent. One of the key points that we still do not know is what happened at the AC bar? Whatever it was set in motion a chain of events that may have resulted in the death of 2 young visitors to Thailand. There has to be someone in that bar on that night who can and will provide this key piece of evidence. It clearly makes no sense to me why 2 young Burmese workers, even if intoxicated, would care what 2 young foreign visitors were doing on the beach. I am hopeful the defense team has obtained some information from a source(s) that will paint the exact timeline and chain of events that will solve this tragedy.

[mcm991]

I have not seen any DNA evidence presented that could implicate the B2.

I have not seen any evidence at all that could implicate the B2.

The prosecution have shown that the case was mishandled from the outset to a level of incompetence that I have never seen before.

Many important leads not followed,

loss and mishandling of crutial pieces of evidence,

interrogations held in dubious enviroments with translators who don't understand any language.

And this is all before the defence have even started.

IMO, the defence has no case to answer to.

I really can't believe that the prosecution is actually trying to get a conviction. Other forces must be in play.

[thailandchilli]

OT: make the work of moderators easy leaving troll, bashers, thread disrupters alone. Any reply to them just gives them importance and make them post more and more.

To ignore them is the power of who really cares about this case and its developments...

just to add:

it seems to be the agenda of those trolls to incite unrest in this thread so that it will be closed by the mods, this way

wiping out as much trace as they can of this horrible subject in the internet

This is exactly what happened in the foregoing thread - and the trolls were those who liked the mods decision

So please just don't pay attention to them. I am happily using the ignore button

Congratulations!

Discuss one way by eliminating all those who do not share your opinion speaks for itself.

Unlike you I observed this thread with great interest. How far will they go in blindness and denial of any objective observation to validate their conspiracy theory.

Next step I advise you to limit exchanges at your mirror for be well certain not to be contradicted. Meanwhile thank you for giving me the best opportunity for laugh in that rainy Sunday.

Perfect example above of why the ignore function that TV have kindly supplied should be used by all 'reasonable' posters ^^ bye bye

[KunMatt]

I have not seen any DNA evidence presented that could implicate the B2.

I have not seen any evidence at all that could implicate the B2.

The prosecution have shown that the case was mishandled from the outset to a level of incompetence that I have never seen before.

Many important leads not followed,

loss and mishandling of crutial pieces of evidence,

interrogations held in dubious enviroments with translators who don't understand any language.

And this is all before the defence have even started.

IMO, the defence has no case to answer to.

I really can't believe that the prosecution is actually trying to get a conviction. Other forces must be in play.

Which is exactly what open minded people and persons without a vested interest in Koh Tao and seeking truth and justice have been saying since the B2 were arrested and charged. This only further proves that the RTP shills are not here for a debate but just to troll and shut down these threads.

Before the trial all of the RTP defenders and supporters were saying "wait for the trial, then you'll see all of the evidence the RTP have, then you'll see just how guilty the B2 are", well here we are and now we know what the RTP had on the B2 and it's basically nothing when it comes to real evidence, there were no surprises and there was no solid evidence produced at the trial which we hadn't heard of before because they kept blabbing their mouths and tell us everything they had throughout the investigation, and everything of what they said they had actually turned out to be even sketchier than we expected.

I'm looking forward to hearing the defense's day in court and I hope they obliterate the RTP's shabby case and all of the trolls and shills have to disappear from this forum out of shame.

[waza]

Very interesting

[phuketandsee]

"The prosecution case is weak"

Correction, if I may be so bold, the prosecution case is non-existent. To me the single most astounding thing I have read so far (among many astounding things) is the report that the RTP did not test the alleged murder weapon for finger prints or DNA (assuming this is true as I, as others, have seen some video of the hoe being swabbed – inconvenient prints/DNA perhaps?). If only one thing was needed to sum up this travesty it is this. How can there be a murder trial without a weapon? Or a believable motive?

Last year JDA or JTJ (I can’t remember which and apologies for bringing them up) referred several times to the “overwhelming evidence” against the B2. Well after 10 (11?) days of the prosecution presenting their case we have yet to hear of a single piece of evidence of any kind other than claims of a DNA match which to me, coming from the RTP, qualifies as hearsay - and even if correct only goes to rape not murder as has been stated a number of times. I am a little puzzled why the defense asked for new samples if the RTP was to be involved in any way. Do we know for sure the chain of custody of these new samples? I see references to the results being "returned directly to the defense" but what happens to them before this? IMHO there has been way too much emphasis on the DNA unless there is a silver bullet coming from the UK (assuming it will be admissible).

And, for what it’s worth, a couple of weeks ago I met a young lady from Norfolk who works with Hannah’s cousin. She told me the family absolutely does NOT believe what they were told. Sorry shills, I can’t post a link since I wasn’t wearing a wire.

[Darkknight666]

I also keep reading that "all the info from the press is from the defense" here on TV, To which I say, why is that?

Why haven't the prosecution given any information on what has happened after the trials daily events? Where I'm from both parties in a case this significant would give a brief statement to the media, or decline to do so citing the ongoing trial.

My guess is, since day one they have had a foot in their mouth, Any press interview given would surely be a massacre.

[thailandchilli]

I also keep reading that "all the info from the press is from the defense" here on TV, To which I say, why is that?

Why haven't the prosecution given any information on what has happened after the trials daily events? Where I'm from both parties in a case this significant would give a brief statement to the media, or decline to do so citing the ongoing trial.

My guess is, since day one they have had a foot in their mouth, Any press interview given would surely be a massacre.

You've nailed it right there Darkknight. Its impossible for them to utter a word without digging there hole even deeper.

Shills think the reports are one sided, correct they are and ask yourselves why. The international press reports what it see's, their not afraid to say it as it is. We can see that in the last Daily Mail article that was completely wrong and inaccurate but it showed they did not have any bias or agendas supporting the B2.

A reporter will report, a shill will cry conspiracy theory, its interesting to see in the last posts by the shills they still cling onto labeling us conspiracy theorists and get all hurt when we label them shills.......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah bless

[berybert]

AleG I must applaud your undying love for prosecution. They have had 10 days so far and shown nothing, and for this you blame the defense.

I do hope you come back in the next life as a lemming. You came so close in this one.

I will be more than happy to walk you to the nearest cliff.

[catsanddogs]

Something that has bugged me from day one is when looking at where the bodies where found , it appears there is accommodation very close by, now without being grotesque, I would imagine there was a lot of noise and commotion when these barbaric murders took place.. Surely people in said accomodation would have seen / heard something ( apart from the previously mentioned French 2 ) strange how it doesn't appear forthcoming as of yet.

well you mention the 2 French girls who gave statements to the police about what they heard and at what time, it could also be that David heard it too and went to investigate - that didn't end very well

There seems to be a lot of stuff that the police are aware of that doesn't fit with their story so they just ignore it and hide it from the defense - cctv - statements - timelines - deflections - witnesses that suddenly appear - interpreters that don't speak Thai ....................the list is endless

When I think of this case in my minds eye what I see is a 2" round hole and the police trying to hammer a 2ft square block in there, we can all see what is wrong every time they move the block - it is just never going to fit

Can anyone enlighten me please about what 2 French girls 'heard' and statements to police please?

[catsanddogs]

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/solicitors-from-international-human-rights-group-banned-from-taking-notes-in-koh-tao-murder-trial.html

Solicitors from International Human Rights Group Banned from Taking Notes in Koh Tao Murder Trial

[catsanddogs]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

“What happened to the initial forensic findings which showed rape had not occurred? Why was the used condom at the crime scene not sent for tests? Why was the son of the village headman not DNA tested? And what happened to one of the CCTV clips showing a suspect which was allegedly cut for two minutes?”

Hope the defence is in receipt of the missing two minutes that were allegedly cut.

[loonodingle]

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/solicitors-from-international-human-rights-group-banned-from-taking-notes-in-koh-tao-murder-trial.html

Solicitors from International Human Rights Group Banned from Taking Notes in Koh Tao Murder Trial

Well I guess if the prosecution get a judgement in their favour despite loosing the case on the evidence then a robust appeal will be fought. Theres a lot of people involved in the case not just Andy Hall. Andy is just an accessory and not the main player. Despite what some people think on here he is a volunteer who has added value to the defence case in light of the allegations of torture and using the B2 as scapegoats.

[mike313]

All your posts will not change the fact that they simply will hang and burn the B2. Too much money has been paid, too many "facelosses" are at stake. Mon and Nomsod will open an "Hit me with your love" dating service franchise, unsolved rapes and murders on KT will continue as will any possible mafia business competitors find their investments in smoke and ashes. Does anyone seriously believe that "justice will be served" in the KT case? You are all discussing a lost case, still theorizing at what happened, with the clever and out of the box thinking ones unravelling all the cockups of the RTP, while some complete nutcakes try to back up the official story of the rotten to the core RTP... What will you guys achieve in the end? Nothing! Why? Because law and order does not apply to people who own whole cities and islands and more money than they could possibly spend in a hundred lifetimes.

You are accusing Nomsod etc; of being guilty of this murder, and dismissing the B2 of any involvement whatsoever. How does this help anybody? Contribute facts and information, anything else is just your opinion, based on non information. Try to remain impartial, and remember the victims here are Hannah and David, and that is who we want justice for, we know they are innocent. This is not a forum to attack the RTP, or Thailand.