Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[catsanddogs]

Seems they want to use the video of the fabricated reenactment as evidence?

Another thing comes to my mind:

May be they planned to use the fabricated DNA match as their trump card in the end of their performance

and this has been thwarted by the defense now indisputably having the proper DNA of the B2

btw if they have a match it would be very interesting from whom the matching DNA comes

Reports have continued to be widespread in the news stating Thai police have a watertight case and that DNA links the defendants to the crime scene. If Loono is correct in saying he believes the defence have tested the B2's DNA (taken in court this week) against the alleged DNA profile of them that the Thai police took and it is not a match, then it is quite possible that the profile held by Thai police is that of the killers. Where else could such continued confidence have come from by them since they claimed to have a match in October last year? This is the one thing they have continually hung on to. Hopefully this means the defence now have in their possession proof of the profile held by the Thai police supposedly of the B2. I wouldn't take much to get hold of some DNA from original suspects when the case was under the command of Panya Mamen and test them against that DNA.

Here are some other specimens from which you can extract DNA:

· Sweaty t-shirts

· Undergarments

· Semen stains

· Vaginal stains

· Paper or plastic cup

· Glass

· Ear wax

· Fingernail clippings

· Socks

· Urine

· Licked stamps

· (Inner) cheek swabs

· Hair with roots

· Dried blood

· Whole blood

· Chewed gum

· Dental floss

· Cigarette butts

· Used tissue [boy, have I got a lot of these!]

· Dried skin

· Used razor

· Other biological specimens [I shudder to think]

· http://www.eyeondna.com/2007/06/06/get-a-dna-sample-from-almost-anything/

[sweatalot]

I am not going to answer any troll's or shill's post (not even before ignoring them)

But I want to make some general statements:

Most members here are not accusing Nomsod or anybody else nor is our purpose to attack the RTP

This is a forum were people (most of them followed this case for a long time) discuss what has happened and what the different parties (RTP, Nomsod, Mon, B2, "translaters", others ) have done.

There is a lot of information available.

With this it is possible to come to a judgement what seems to be ok, and what not - and as none of us has all the facts most of us will be open to another outcome - if proved beyond reasonable doubt

This is a forum where people can try to find out what is truth and what not. The purpose is not to attack. This we leave to the shills who should be banned for that.

[balo]

Yes this thread is much clearer now but anyone is entitled to their opinion, imo no need to even discuss trolls siince some of you think all who is not 100% sure B2 are innocent are trolls in your eyes. I always said 50/50 regarding B2 . Just accept it instead of insulting other members with a different opinion.

Oh, now you're 50/50? Is that because given recently events you are backpeddling on everything you said over the last 11 months?

You've been one of the worst stirrers and spreaders of misinformation on these threads, you've been here only to get threads shut down and then you "Like" the post when a mod states a thread is closed, and many many times you have outright said and maintained that you believe the B2 were guilty and the RTP did a great job.

But now you're 50/50. lol. I said before that when the trial is over a lot of members will have to change their usernames out of the disgraceful things they have been saying and doing during the course of this case, but I guess some of them will try to quietly change allegiance and be like "well, I did say I was 50/50 that one time."

You need to read up on all my posts then , I have said 50/50 for a long time, I think I mentioned it in around 10 posts. Dont know why you try to attack me , are you mistaken me for someone else ? I have been a member on this forum for many years and lived in Thailand for 5 years. I comment in a lor of threads , not so much in this case.

If you do not like my opinions on this forum I see no reason why you should even make a comment on this. And I have no intentions in changing my username unlike perhaps some of you .

Anyway personal atttacks do not belong here , and Im happy moderators try to clean up threads like this.

[KunMatt]

You need to read up on all my posts then , I have said 50/50 for a long time, I think I mentioned it in around 10 posts. Dont know why you try to attack me , are you mistaken me for someone else ? I have been a member on this forum for many years and lived in Thailand for 5 years. I comment in a lor of threads , not so much in this case.

If you do not like my opinions on this forum I see no reason why you should even make a comment on this. And I have no intentions in changing my username unlike perhaps some of you .

Anyway personal atttacks do not belong here , and Im happy moderators try to clean up threads like this.

Heeeey, you have been one of the hang 'em high guys.........

Totally. Slong wih JTJ, AleG, JDA (back at the start of this), Balo you have always been opposing any rational conversation on every Koh Tao thread and trying to close down the threads which you then "Like" when a mod does so. You stance is to say anything which doesn't fit in with the RTP side of the investigation is gossip, you hate CSI LA for providing some investigative journalism on this, you always defend Nomsod and his family and you have stated that the B2 at very best "are not totally innocent".

So no, I am not confusing you with anyone else. I've been reading your shameful posts on this case since the beginning as I've been trying to follow the case on this forum.

[balo]

You need to read up on all my posts then , I have said 50/50 for a long time, I think I mentioned it in around 10 posts. Dont know why you try to attack me , are you mistaken me for someone else ? I have been a member on this forum for many years and lived in Thailand for 5 years. I comment in a lor of threads , not so much in this case.

If you do not like my opinions on this forum I see no reason why you should even make a comment on this. And I have no intentions in changing my username unlike perhaps some of you .

Anyway personal atttacks do not belong here , and Im happy moderators try to clean up threads like this.

Heeeey, you have been one of the hang 'em high guys.........

Totally. Slong wih JTJ, AleG, JDA (back at the start of this), Balo you have always been opposing any rational conversation on every Koh Tao thread and trying to close down the threads which you then "Like" when a mod does so. You stance is to say anything which doesn't fit in with the RTP side of the investigation is gossip, you hate CSI LA for providing some investigative journalism on this, you always defend Nomsod and his family and you have stated that the B2 at very best "are not totally innocent".

So no, I am not confusing you with anyone else. I've been reading your shameful posts on this case since the beginning as I've been trying to follow the case on this forum.

You call it shameful posts but its just my opinion for many months in this ccase and others , you dont have to like it , but that does not give you the right to insult me on this forum. Another comment that was uneccessary from you. If B2 are guilty I want to see them prosecuted. If Nomsod and his frienda are guilty I like to see them prosecuted, its very simple really.

Now stop this personal attacks before the mods has to start deleting posts again.

[KunMatt]

You need to read up on all my posts then , I have said 50/50 for a long time, I think I mentioned it in around 10 posts. Dont know why you try to attack me , are you mistaken me for someone else ? I have been a member on this forum for many years and lived in Thailand for 5 years. I comment in a lor of threads , not so much in this case.

If you do not like my opinions on this forum I see no reason why you should even make a comment on this. And I have no intentions in changing my username unlike perhaps some of you .

Anyway personal atttacks do not belong here , and Im happy moderators try to clean up threads like this.

Heeeey, you have been one of the hang 'em high guys.........

Totally. Slong wih JTJ, AleG, JDA (back at the start of this), Balo you have always been opposing any rational conversation on every Koh Tao thread and trying to close down the threads which you then "Like" when a mod does so. You stance is to say anything which doesn't fit in with the RTP side of the investigation is gossip, you hate CSI LA for providing some investigative journalism on this, you always defend Nomsod and his family and you have stated that the B2 at very best "are not totally innocent".

So no, I am not confusing you with anyone else. I've been reading your shameful posts on this case since the beginning as I've been trying to follow the case on this forum.

You call it shameful posts but its just my opinion for many months in this ccase and others , you dont have to like it , but that does not give you the right to insult me on this forum. Another comment that was uneccessary from you. If B2 are guilty I want to see them prosecuted. If Nomsod and his frienda are guilty I like to see them prosecuted, its very simple really.

Now stop this personal attacks before the mods has to start deleting posts again.

Yes, you can cry foul, play a victim and report posts like you always do but I am not attacking or insulting you, I am pointing out your post history.

[Darkknight666]

So, NS Facebook use to have two DJ's as his top three friends, DJ Mackie (who remains on his list) and DJ Tony who not only isn't on NS top 3 friends, he's been "Unfriended". They were there for months and now gone.

[StealthEnergiser]

Human Right Group Still Waiting for Thai Police to explain about alleged torture. (english subs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRR8Hn5k64#t=62

[boomerangutang]

This case is like looking at heavily made-up beauty queen's teeth with a magnifying glass. The closer in you go, the uglier it gets.

[Darkknight666]

Human Right Group Still Waiting for Thai Police to explain about alleged torture. (english subs)

Police not bothering to answer to some pesky human rights organization magnifies their attitudes. If they had nothing to hide, why not show up? Especially when it's not a trial, it's just a formal interview about the accusations. Why on earth would any government not send a deligate to the meeting? Even with prepared statements!

Their absence speaks for it self, IMO.

Cheer's, RTP fellas.

[smedly]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

“What happened to the initial forensic findings which showed rape had not occurred? Why was the used condom at the crime scene not sent for tests? Why was the son of the village headman not DNA tested? And what happened to one of the CCTV clips showing a suspect which was allegedly cut for two minutes?”

Hope the defence is in receipt of the missing two minutes that were allegedly cut.

It's either "missing" - "used up" - "destroyed" - "don't know" - "you can't have that", take your pick

I think we would have seen a very different landscape if the cop that was originally in charge of this invesigation hadn't been suddenly removed and transferred because (it seems) certain influential people didn't like where it was heading, I'd like to see him being cross examined by the defense but unlikely he could or would be totally honest

[boomerangutang]

Let's not gang up on Balo. He's been more reasonable than some other posters, who I don't need to name. At least Balo is open to the possibility that Nomsod and Mon and their tough-guy buddies may be the real perps - and if they're found guilty in a future trial, they should be punished to full extent possible. That's in contrast to the hard-core Headman's people shielders, who won't consider any evidence which points to the Headman's people. The same sort of mind-set which the RTP adhere to, fanatically.

Additionally, every official who knowingly obfuscated or skewed the trail pointing to the Headman's people should also be severely disciplined. In a fair-minded society, the people who are paid and entrusted to uphold the laws are subject to harsher penalties if they're found guilty of breaking those same laws. Unfortunately, the opposite is true in Thailand. Here's just one of thousands of examples of how things transpire in Thailand: A former gov't Minister (within Thaksin's regime) was indicted on charges of corruption and breaking laws. Here's what he said in response: "What I did as Minister is in the past. I am no longer a Minister, so how can you talk about criminal procedures for something I may have done when I was a Minister?!" That's part of the Thai mind-set and, no surprise, no criminal procedures were pursued against him.

Some of the top cops who are orchestrating the cover-up in this KT crime will likely revert to the same excuses, if they ever have to face disciplinary procedures. Top cop Somyot is ready to retire in 5 weeks. If that excuse doesn't work, he and his buddies will surely find other handy excuses, and their buddies on the disciplinary panel will gladly accept any to let them off the hook. They hate to see one of their fellow officers lose face. Thai officialdom has as much trouble disciplining its own as its courts have in busting someone rich and/or socially well-connected. In that regard, Thailand is on par with Zimbabwe or Somalia.

[metisdead]

A trolling nonsense post has been removed.

[catsanddogs]

Something that has bugged me from day one is when looking at where the bodies where found , it appears there is accommodation very close by, now without being grotesque, I would imagine there was a lot of noise and commotion when these barbaric murders took place.. Surely people in said accomodation would have seen / heard something ( apart from the previously mentioned French 2 ) strange how it doesn't appear forthcoming as of yet.

well you mention the 2 French girls who gave statements to the police about what they heard and at what time, it could also be that David heard it too and went to investigate - that didn't end very well

There seems to be a lot of stuff that the police are aware of that doesn't fit with their story so they just ignore it and hide it from the defense - cctv - statements - timelines - deflections - witnesses that suddenly appear - interpreters that don't speak Thai ....................the list is endless

When I think of this case in my minds eye what I see is a 2" round hole and the police trying to hammer a 2ft square block in there, we can all see what is wrong every time they move the block - it is just never going to fit

Can anyone enlighten me please about what 2 French girls 'heard' and statements to police please?

Beautifulpain - any news on the French girls, what they heard and their statement to police yet please?

[boomerangutang]

Hmmm, let me guess - who would be this star witness for the prosecution? Could it be Nomsod's mom? ....getting a frantic call early Monday morning the 15th from her darling son, saying something like, "mom listen, if you anyone asks you if I was on the island last night, tell 'em you don't know anything. No. Tell 'em I wasn't there. You got that? I gotta go. Lot's going on, bye, love you."

or maybe the star witness is Muang Muang (for several hours, he was part of B3, before it became B2). His bank account just ballooned by 3 million baht, now he's willing to spin stories he memorized from RTP handlers?

[silverado]

Hmmm, let me guess - who would be this star witness for the prosecution? Could it be Nomsod's mom? ....getting a frantic call early Monday morning the 15th from her darling son, saying something like, "mom listen, if you anyone asks you if I was on the island last night, tell 'em you don't know anything. No. Tell 'em I wasn't there. You got that? I gotta go. Lot's going on, bye, love you."

or maybe the star witness is Muang Muang (for several hours, he was part of B3, before it became B2). His bank account just ballooned by 3 million baht, now he's willing to spin stories he memorized from RTP handlers?

[catsanddogs]

Speaking before the trial started on Wednesday, the Witheridge family issued a statement in which they said they wanted a fair hearing and “those responsible for 
the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice”.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/hannah_witheridge_s_family_left_in_tears_during_thai_murder_trial_1_4148876

Maybe of small comfort to Hannah and David's families, but there are many many people who are aware of these unimaginably horrific murders (and the investigation that has followed) that are supporting them in wanting those responsible brought to justice.

[metisdead]

A post containing unsubstantiated allegations and therefore construed as rumoring has been removed as well as the replies.

Another post containing a link to a commercial blog site has been removed as well.

[thailandchilli]

With that spare a thought for Andy Hall tomorrow morning, he's facing a huge injustice against him in Bangkok Criminal court room 501. Without him the work of the defense would be handicapped from all the effort he has put in to help ensure a fair trial for the B2 and justice to be done.

[Darkknight666]

Let me try again, what Star Witness? At this stage...... :rofl:

[BeautifulPain]

Catsanddogs -

It was discussed in the last thread that was closed, I can't provide a link, however it was said two French girls staying in the apartments / rooms near the scene had heard noise and some fighting . Apparently they then hid and I think didn't seen much else, I believe it was reported that they gavea statement to the RTP.

All of this discussion that seems to have blighted other threads and creeping up in this one about NS and his family / assosotiates is futile. There is certainly question marks regarding some of them but they are not on trial and it does not effect seeing justice done in this trial. The only way I see the defence losing is if they don't contest the DNA. If the B2 are acquitted then other past or potential suspects need to be re looked at.

I agree with whoever said the ac bar is the key in solving these crimes.

[catsanddogs]

Catsanddogs -

It was discussed in the last thread that was closed, I can't provide a link, however it was said two French girls staying in the apartments / rooms near the scene had heard noise and some fighting . Apparently they then hid and I think didn't so much else, I believe it was reported that they have a statement to the RTP.

All of this discussion that seems to have blighted other threads and creeping up in this one about NS and his family / assosotiates is futile. There is certainly question marks regarding some of them but they are not on trial and it does not effect seeing justice done in this trial. The only way I see the defence losing is if they don't contest the DNA. Then other past or potential suspects need to be re looked at.

I agree with whoever said the ac bar is the key in solving these crimes.

Thanks for that BP. I hadn't read about the French girls statements. That is interesting. I'm surprised there hasn't been more information available about this as it seems that these are the only people to have come forward and say they heard anything on that morning that might have related to the murders. Also I'm surprised that this information (if relevant to the crime) has not been raised by the prosecution because it would enable them to put a time to the crimes. Hopefully the defence will be in receipt of a copy of their statements. Agree with you regards the AC Bar - rumours of altercations do not come out of thin air, but unfortunately there seems to be widespread fear surrounding the case which is putting the brakes on people who quite likely have very useful information.

[BeautifulPain]

No problem.

I will search out the info regarding the French witnesses later when I have time, fully agree its strange that there is not much in terms of reports on these statements. Even if it was before the suspected time of these crimes, Id imagine any argument/fighting in the area would be of interest.

There is so little from the AC bar, and it seems some people dont want anything investigated regarding it. However its the last proven place both victims were seen. Strange indeed

[IslandLover]

No problem.

I will search out the info regarding the French witnesses later when I have time, fully agree its strange that there is not much in terms of reports on these statements. Even if it was before the suspected time of these crimes, Id imagine any argument/fighting in the area would be of interest.

There is so little from the AC bar, and it seems some people dont want anything investigated regarding it. However its the last proven place both victims were seen. Strange indeed

The only information I've seen regarding the French witnesses has been in a text conversation with Sean McAnna. I've never seen it mentioned in the press.

[BeautifulPain]

Thanks, saved me searching it out, sorry if you misinterpreted my comment to mean I had news reports , I just knew it had been mentioned. Peoples opinions on Sean seem to differ, odd thing to lie about if it wasn't true but I'll accept he's not the best character to trust in.

[catsanddogs]

No problem.

I will search out the info regarding the French witnesses later when I have time, fully agree its strange that there is not much in terms of reports on these statements. Even if it was before the suspected time of these crimes, Id imagine any argument/fighting in the area would be of interest.

There is so little from the AC bar, and it seems some people dont want anything investigated regarding it. However its the last proven place both victims were seen. Strange indeed

The only information I've seen regarding the French witnesses has been in a text conversation with Sean McAnna. I've never seen it mentioned in the press.

Sean McAnna French girls p1.jpgSean McAnna French girls p2.jpg

Thanks for posting that Islandlover. Do you know who McAnna was having that conversation with and what the date was? Surely this is of major importance and should be bought up at the trial?

Edit - Have just been reading past posts and see this has already been discussed. Amazing nothing has come of it though. Or not I guess.

[simonuk]

If anyone looks through my posts they will see I lean towards the b2 being innocent and I believe the rtp to be utterly corrupt . My gut feeling tells me it's linked to the "family".

However, as I asked earlier about the alleged stolen objects I'd also hope the defence discuss the journey home that the b2 took after their time on the beach.

Do we suspect that cctv footage that would show them walking home prior to the murders and could clear them has been tampered with or could they have taken a route that wasn't covered?

Apologies if this has been discussed already.

[smedly]

If anyone looks through my posts they will see I lean towards the b2 being innocent and I believe the rtp to be utterly corrupt . My gut feeling tells me it's linked to the "family".

However, as I asked earlier about the alleged stolen objects I'd also hope the defence discuss the journey home that the b2 took after their time on the beach.

Do we suspect that cctv footage that would show them walking home prior to the murders and could clear them has been tampered with or could they have taken a route that wasn't covered?

Apologies if this has been discussed already.

Police testified in court that they rode a motorbike home, it is also a question I have raised several times, why the police have not presented cctv footage of them leaving, perhaps because it doesn't fit with thier case and exactly why all the cctv footage that police used to build their case should have been handed over to the defense so they could also use it

for example if cctv footage showed them leaving at 2:45am and the witness statements from the two French girls that heard the fighting on the beach at 3:30am then there would clearly be an issue

Police could not want such evidense exposed so they may hide it - that would be illegal in the west

when it comes down to it - it seems the police here seem to think they can claim what they want - say what they want - manipulate what they want and nobody should be challenging them - nobody should have a defense - have an argument - ask for proof - ask if they followed protocol - bring into question anything they say or do, it is primative and highly unprofessional how they operate, it's like looking at the west 300 years ago.

Fixing it would be a challenge, intensive traing - raising standards - a change of mindset - strictly following rules and protocols and lastly and probably the most important, having a criminal justice system that simply won't accept cases that are flawed or have broken the rules - in other words keep rejecting these cases until the police have got the message that non compliance will not be tolerated, throw cases out of court that don't comply ..............keep doing this until they get the message

[loonodingle]

You are all forgetting as well the report in the newspaper. .. The Times... which is a respectable broadsheet. One that David Cameron reads, which suggests that they have seen evjdence to suggest Hannah Was Shot.

If this is true and I dont know if it is....... then the confessions are worthless. Because thats not what happened. It would rei forcd the suggestions that they had to repeat what they had been told over hours and hours of training. Still I did notice they had to still take prompts from the Polee on the beach. Along with Roti torturer and his sidekick.

[simonuk]

You are all forgetting as well the report in the newspaper. .. The Times... which is a respectable broadsheet. One that David Cameron reads, which suggests that they have seen evjdence to suggest Hannah Was Shot.

If this is true and I dont know if it is....... then the confessions are worthless. Because thats not what happened. It would rei forcd the suggestions that they had to repeat what they had been told over hours and hours of training. Still I did notice they had to still take prompts from the Polee on the beach. Along with Roti torturer and his sidekick.

I'd be very suprised if Hannah had been shot.

No reports of a shot being fired and if a gun was used it would make more sense to use it on the man than the lady.