Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[silverado]

It was Silvarado a brutal murder, however brutal murders happen every day all around the world. So the case will not get the exposure that it got at the start.

They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it matters not if the Burmese two, get found guilty, it wont change the past.

Many people let their guard down on holiday. For what its worth after reading the background the Burmese two are probably guilty, but will now walk.

I understand you're a troll not waste my time anymore, bye bye

[manxninja]

If stating the facts, unsettles you then, maybe its a reflection on your character.

From my reading of the case, personally I feel they are guilty. Lets wait and see how the Court rules. Then tell me they got the wrong men.

Unfortunately, in this case justice must be seen to be done. I hope the two Burmese have the best legal team they can afford, it will be an interesting ruling.

[Darkknight666]

It was Silvarado a brutal murder, however brutal murders happen every day all around the world. So the case will not get the exposure that it got at the start.

They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it matters not if the Burmese two, get found guilty, it wont change the past.

Many people let their guard down on holiday. For what its worth after reading the background the Burmese two are probably guilty, but will now walk.

What you're saying, Ninja (lol) is that you think the two Burmese are guilty because, wait for it, they're brown? You do realize how racist and uninformed that is, don't you?

It comes off a bit like "No Thai could do this"

There is less evidence to indicate the B2 than there is to convict the likely true killers.

I think the B2 will walk because they aren't the killers, and, because all of the evidence is being shown up as poorly collected and catalogued. Maybe the rich spoiled sumbish who actually did kill David and Hannah will never even see a day in court... That's sad, but sadder still is executing two people with barely an arse hair of evidence.

The trial has many more twists, let's see if it can be spun when the big guns come out.

Here's bad karma to the real beasts who slayed our two wonderful young people.... Jai Dam... Find the monsters and destroy them.

[falangjim]

Yes... Irregularities in the paper work so they took DNA again! What's the deal with the mother not getting help from human rights? I didn't get that part. Hopefully there's more coverage even with the tragedy in Bangkok unfolding.

Let's get to the bottom of this and get the killers ruined.

Yes, I found that very odd reading about the mother not getting help from Human Rights. What's that all about?

The woman (I use that term loosely) who wrote the article for the Samui Times is a hack. That garbage isn't even worth TVF.

[IslandLover]

2 men could be in jail for life and may be put to death and this is all you post about?

Wow, a real big 'incident'. How this is an incident is beyond me.

The incident is played up in the hope that it will inhibit donations to the defense funds, especially the one administered by Andy Hall.

And we already know theres 3 or 4 posters who take every opportunity available to them to discredit the defense or Andy Hall.

What amazes me is that they are allowed to continue to call people like Andy Hall (who is a decent person) "A ScumBag" without any instance of moderation. In fact if I was Andy Hall I would be sticking one right into these posters.

This is how the Samui Times actually reported the "incident" (note the name "Andy Hall" is missing from the OP in this thread):

The forlorn mother of Zaw Lin arrived alone at the court house to support her son supported by two friends, one of whom led her up the steps to the court when Human Rights Activist Andy Hall declined to help or even acknowledge her, an incident caught on a local TV camera.

Caught on a local TV camera? Well, has anybody actually seen it?

This has gone unreported everywhere, apart from the Samui Times. Even CSI MM, who are financially supporting the mothers of the accused, has failed to mention it. It's starting to look more and more like mischief-making by people who have it in for Andy. Perhaps his own forthcoming court case has something to do with it.

[T_Dog]

The Sky article has some specifics on medical attention one suspect required. Hopefully the reason for that comes out in the trial:

"The suspects also claim they were hit by police and the translator working for the police. The translator is also due to testify in court today.

Police on the mainland said during the trial yesterday that they had called for a doctor to examine bruising on Mr Phyo's face but "no doctor was available".

Following his arrest and interrogation, Mr Lin was taken to hospital by police officers complaining of bruising and chest pain.

http://news.sky.com/story/1538057/backpacker-murder-suspect-freely-confessed

[loonodingle]

The incident is played up in the hope that it will inhibit donations to the defense funds, especially the one administered by Andy Hall.

And we already know theres 3 or 4 posters who take every opportunity available to them to discredit the defense or Andy Hall.

What amazes me is that they are allowed to continue to call people like Andy Hall (who is a decent person) "A ScumBag" without any instance of moderation. In fact if I was Andy Hall I would be sticking one right into these posters.

This is how the Samui Times actually reported the "incident" (note the name "Andy Hall" is missing from the OP in this thread):

The forlorn mother of Zaw Lin arrived alone at the court house to support her son supported by two friends, one of whom led her up the steps to the court when Human Rights Activist Andy Hall declined to help or even acknowledge her, an incident caught on a local TV camera.

Caught on a local TV camera? Well, has anybody actually seen it?

This has gone unreported everywhere, apart from the Samui Times. Even CSI MM, who are financially supporting the mothers of the accused, has failed to mention it. It's starting to look more and more like mischief-making by people who have it in for Andy. Perhaps his own forthcoming court case has something to do with it.

Actually |Island lover this included those references but its been edited to remove them now. Earlier on it included that statement but I complained to the higher beings in our presence. The almighty ones ;-)

[berybert]

Just to make people aware I consider Andy Hall to be a hero.

The scumbag inhuman rights lawyers I refered to were those who claim the Burmese admitted to them they were the killers.

Which I doubt included the moron who seems to have made up a little story about how both David and Hannah were hit twice each.

I have no doubt either Burmese have ever seen that man in their lives.

[smedly]

If the B2 are found not guilty then this case would show the RTP to be corrupt to the core.

Would anything be done about that going forward ?

Large scale reforms and improvements?

If any other business or organisation was found to be so ineffectual it would be disbanded and rebuilt.

In all honesty most people here would regard police dealing with this sort of investigation in the west as professionals, as you progress up the ranks you are subjected to an ever increasing standard/education that goes way beyond the "beat patrol" it is a proffession needing a very high level of knowledege study and training, anything beyond sergeant will require an education in law at degree level , if you want to progress further you are on a very steep curve to the next rank and on top of that you need to pass "boards" "exams" and interviews, not many people realise that a high ranking police officer in the west will be highly qualified in law, they have to be

Now lets take your average Thai ranking officer............and there is the problem, I could go on but most people will understand exactly my point, it is probably a fault of mine that I expect justice in this case - not Thai justice - not my justice but a certain level of common sense of what is right and wrong, Thai police work is simplistic - it's based on - "if I say it happened this way then it did" how dare you question me I am wearing a uniform so it is true

I'm not sure that even Thai judges have an understanding of justice at a level that we are so used to and take for granted in the west, the mindset is totally different here - yes they may actually put the right person in jail 80% of the time - "hey, you did it because I know it and said so in court" but that is not enough by any standard we know of

I will say again - I don't know if B2 are guilty or innocent, I have seen nothing yet presented in court so far that I would consider as solid verifiable evidence to convince me either way - remember, innocent until proven guilty

I have my own thoughts based on certain things that have taken place during the investigation that I will keep to myself for now, but I will say that in the west this case would have been dismissed already - in fact it would never have made it to court

some very simple fundamental things that the police could have done that would have removed all doubt.....but they didn't and that leads me to be very suspicious of anything they are presenting in court - hey they did it - prove it

sorry for any errors in my post - to tired to proof read it

[boomerangutang]

Months ago: there was a high level commission chaired to deal with, among other things, whether in Thailand, only police should continue to be the only crime investigators. (In many other countries, there are private and otherwise objective investigators). PM Gen. Prayut was involved with that commission. Result? It was disbanded as being un-fixable (they couldn't find a solution) .....and the issue passed on to some unspecified/nebulous future commission.

This botched Ko Tao investigation is a glaring reason why there should be crime investigators who are independent of police. In a thousands ways, Thai top brass have shown they have an agenda in this case. The losers are not only the crime victims and their families. Other losers are the general public and the scapegoats and their families. .....and possible future victims of bad people still walking around on Ko Tao. I can almost hear the Headman and Mon saying, "Oh no, not possible. This type of crime won't happen again. I'll pay 1 million baht to anyone who can prove this type of crime will happen again on Ko Tao."

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

News Reports a bit quiet today so maybe some people would like to look at couple of youtube clips

Edited August 20, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

[stephenterry]

What a surprise. Seems like without a proper chain of custody - the DNA evidence is inadmissible. And I thought that, under Thai law, any confession obtained by RTP during an investigation is also inadmissible.

What is also disappointing is that the outcome of day 2 has yet to be disclosed by anyone. What happened to the Roti seller? Did he give evidence? Andy Hall is keeping quiet on this.

Edited August 20, 2015 by stephenterry

[seahorse]

From the Daily Telegraph article supplied by StealthEnergiser.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11725454/Thai-police-officer-describes-finding-bodies-of-British-backpackers-during-murder-trial.html

“I think we did a pretty good job of sealing the crime scene, although we have a limited number of officers on Koh Tao and so local volunteers helped,” said Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen, the deputy chief spokesman for the Royal Thai Police.

Here is one of those local volunteers helping the police seal the crime scene.

[Darkknight666]

What a surprise. Seems like without a proper chain of custody - the DNA evidence is inadmissible. And I thought that, under Thai law, any confession obtained by RTP during an investigation is also inadmissible.

What is also disappointing is that the outcome of day 2 has yet to be disclosed by anyone. What happened to the Roti seller? Did he give evidence? Andy Hall is keeping quiet on this.

I have faith in the defense team and believe they're doing the very best work possible. I too was waiting to see what came out of his testimony however, Of they aren't talking that may be good. The hole keeps getting deeper, and the prosecution is still shoveling. Prosecutors have been given enough rope......

DNA is now more or less useless (as we've all thought for ages) so I cannot imagine the court finding B2 guilty based on what's been presented.

[stephenterry]

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

But no blood on hoe from David Miller?

From the above article

'The family of Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller were not in court to hear the detailed description of their deaths'.

Shameful reporting from the local paper, which should say 'were not in court to hear the detailed description of the alleged confession which was later retracted'.

Nor any of David's blood on her despite him being struck while on top of her. Also no explanation for the stabbing type wounds. Even the roti-seller knew/knows the story makes no sense so added the bits about a wine bottle being used. Oh and there's no way Ms Witheridge was only hit twice.

This whole scenario is only likely if you believe that the victims were engaged in a romantic liaison on the beach when they were attacked. I don't, I'm afraid. I won't go into the reasons why I don't believe it as it as been discussed ad nauseam on this forum already.

It's getting more and more pathetic. Who was this mysterious solicitor? Where did he spring from? The Headman's ATM? Was he cross-examined? The testimony is ludicrous, and reads like fantasy. Here's one snippet (abridged version) that would be laughable if not deadly serious.

David was lying on top of Hannah, kissing. I hit him on the head with a hoe. He jumped up! (really?) and started to fight with me. I hit him on the head again (had to stretch a bit, though).

Yeah, sure. All very plausible.

While granted the solicitor is supposedly relating what was said by the B2, the story has no logic to it, and doesn't accord with any evidence obtained. David's DNA was not found on Hannah or on the hoe. The wounds on David's head do not accord with this testimony. I won't move on to Hannah, because that testimony is just as unbelievable to be total fabricated B/S.

Oh, don't tell me, this trial is a Thai soap drama.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would AleG, jdinasia, JTJ and any others who claimed the Burmese were never tortured like to apologize now for claiming those who said they were, were Conspiracy theorists ?

Or in the words of their beloved RTP would they just like to utter the immortal words "we don't know"

Would berybert like to show a quote from me saying they were not abused let alone accuse people of being conspiravy theorist for believing they were (2 lies or fantasies that escape reality ) or is berybert going to continue to make up his own facts as he done regarding most things to do with this case to support bizarre conspiracy theories.

Edited August 20, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[StealthEnergiser]

[Jimlove]

From the Daily Telegraph article supplied by StealthEnergiser.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11725454/Thai-police-officer-describes-finding-bodies-of-British-backpackers-during-murder-trial.html

“I think we did a pretty good job of sealing the crime scene, although we have a limited number of officers on Koh Tao and so local volunteers helped,” said Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen, the deputy chief spokesman for the Royal Thai Police.

Here is one of those local volunteers helping the police seal the crime scene.

20140916_KohTao.jpgmon entering crime scene.jpg

Amazing what some people can get away with here in Land of Scapegoats ...

Boycott Thailand !

[stephenterry]

And we'll get the same old story about how the B2 confessed to the crimes in any number of different scenarios. All superfluous since they recanted their confessions. Isn't it about time the defence made this quite clear to the witnesses? And that the B2 have freely provided DNA samples to support their recantation of any involvement. Or perhaps the defence has - but without any feedback from the court, it's not known what is happening.

[stephenterry]

From the Daily Telegraph article supplied by StealthEnergiser.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11725454/Thai-police-officer-describes-finding-bodies-of-British-backpackers-during-murder-trial.html

“I think we did a pretty good job of sealing the crime scene, although we have a limited number of officers on Koh Tao and so local volunteers helped,” said Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen, the deputy chief spokesman for the Royal Thai Police.

Here is one of those local volunteers helping the police seal the crime scene.

20140916_KohTao.jpgmon entering crime scene.jpg

Amazing what some people can get away with here in Land of Scapegoats ...

Boycott Thailand !

Plus this continuing quote from Kissa. He insisted that the police had assembled a strong case against the defendants. “If we didn’t have concrete evidence, the public attorney would not proceed with the case,” he said.

Shows you how wrong he was, doesn't it?

[stephenterry]

As I see it, the challenges the defence has is to install a sea change in attitude in those who believe anything the prosecution says - even if it's not backed up with verifiable evidence. It's a culture that has been a 'given' for decades. If we say that white is black, it's true. The suspect is guilty, because we've brought him to trial. Who's going to question the statements of people of authority, influential persons, and professionally qualified witnesses, against the protestations of the underprivileged? And who cares, anyway? Migrants? Ten a penny.

IMO, the defence have to do more than cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution's case - they have to convince the court that the prosecution, with all their esteemed witnesses, has got it wrong. That is their challenge. I speculate that the court will be ambivalent in the judgement (if possible), and suggest it goes to the court of appeal whoever is successful.

[Linky]

If I was tortured into a confession I would sure make parts of it totally illogical. Would even sign a name with wrong spelling, and left handed just as a bit more evidence it was a false confession

[stephenterry]

If I was tortured into a confession I would sure make parts of it totally illogical. Would even sign a name with wrong spelling, and left handed just as a bit more evidence it was a false confession

Ha, ha, that makes me laugh. Best today. I suggest if you were being tortured you'd sign anything, divulge anything, to stop the torture. Unless, you're a trained SAS, and can compartmentalise your mind to think rationally under extreme duress.

Anyway, here in the real world, a Thai confession (a guilty plea) brings about a reduced sentence (in most cases). Life without parole, instead of possibly a death sentence, and the prospect of getting released at a future point. Or a commuting of the death sentence to life imprisonment by Royal pardon.

As it stands, parts of the actual confession are totally illogical to any reasonable person, e.g. I hit the male on the back of the head with a hoe. And then he jumped up to fight me...

[loonodingle]

You all seem to be missing a glaring omission.

The RTP said the B2 did not have a solicitor present at the confession as they had not requested one. It wasn't their duty to tell them they had an entitlement.

Edited August 20, 2015 by loonodingle

[thailandchilli]

You all seem to be missing a glaring omission.

The RTP said the B2 did not have a solicitor present at the confession as they had not requested one. It wasn't their duty to tell them they had an entitlement.

Nope we're not missing that, its widely reported that the B2 had no lawyer present when they made there initial confessions, its the RTP that have missed it in their story telling jumble of crap, their falling over themselves and lost the plot completely

Edited August 20, 2015 by thailandchilli