Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[boomerangutang]

Can you give more details?

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

When it became clear that re-testing would be by Thai authorities and handled by RTP, the defense sensibly denied wanting it. RTP have already shown several times, how they can play fast and loose with DNA. If RTP continued to lie, it would likely bolster the skewed DNA trail in the view of the judges, so that wouldn't help the defense. By withdrawing their request for re-testing, defense made a statement of not trusting DNA results handled/overseen by RTP. That's my view, but I can't speak directly for the defense team. Additionally, judges in this case put strict limits on what could and could not be tested. No DNA data from anyone connected with the Headman could be looked at, typed or compared. That's ironclad. And it's no secret why - to those of us who eagerly want to see justice.

On another issue: It's interesting that, besides finding no blood evidence in the scapegoats' room (after a v. bloody double murder, there should be blood on clothes, shoes, bodies, bathroom, area where clothes are washed, ....all over the darn place!) . No weapons found there either. No CCTV of the motorbike (leaving the beach area, or...?) since that shot with the white dog, FIVE HOURS before the crime.

Additionally, we've heard no mention of any in-fighting between the defendants, or with Maung Maung, or with anyone else. When young men are facing persecution and death penalties, they're expected to argue, fight, back-stab, tattle-tale. Thus far, the B2 have handled themselves with dignity. Notably, prosecution did not call MM to the stand. Someone who has followed the case would assume MM would be their star witness, because he was closest to the B2. Yet, with all his interactions with his two buddies that night, MM was considered unimportant to the prosecution. If that doesn't shout COVER-UP! by Thai authorities, I don't know what does.

[thailandchilli]

I understand, again from verbal dialogue, the Ace Card was from a female witness, which was outside the planned sequence of witnesses. The evidence seems very comprehensive, but reporting of the trial was from the defence, the prosecution respected the courts demands of no external communication, yes, no external reporting by media or social means, that's why many local newspapers dropped there interest.

Not that I take your post at face value, but I think you are suggesting this. The prosecution ambushed the defense with a non scheduled witness right at the end of the last day of prosecution testimony, providing no real opportunity for the defense to mount a meaningful cross examination, or to question other prosecution witnesses about what this star witness had testified. In a Western court, whatever fans of Perry Mason might think, this is an absolute no-no. It would never have been allowed. As I said, though, I put as much faith in your verbal dialog as I do in the Thai policeman's report that the UK verbally identified the phone as belonging to David Miller.

Exactly, its also my understanding that any new witness would first need to be submitted to the judge first for clearance to attend, you can't just drag in someone off the street at the last minute. Much the same as the defense asking for Dr Pornthip to be witness, the judge first had to allow this and set aside an extra day.

There is no new witness, its all crap being peddled by shills who are now desperate to spread misinformation

[boomerangutang]

Breaking News

Police: We didnt beat Koh Tao murder suspects to confess

That's just another copper lying, gets a bit tiresum.

Its like the old joke, how do you know when a Thai cop is lying, you can see his lips move.

Also, there are many other ways to inflict torture, besides beating someone. Any 15 yr old boy can tell you ways of torturing which wouldn't leave obvious marks on a body.

[happy Joe]

I said this a month or so ago

The puncture wounds on Davids body were caused by a shark with only one tooth that was able to crawl on land and bite him on the beach, I am 100% sure they should be looking for a toothless shark

keep the feet for dancing

This kind of unhealthy irony is completely displaced.

Not even funny besides. It seems that humor and natural elegance of British people be endangered.

[boomerangutang]

[snip] And what the hell is THAT MAN MON doing in this photograph being the two Burmese scapegoats!

I'm not so sure it is Mon in that photo C&D...I was thinking it could possibly be this fellow.

Edit to add enlarged image -

I can see the resemblance, but they're two different men. The other man has slightly thinner face and wider mouth. Also, his eye shape doesn't match.

[boomerangutang]

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh tao trial day 12 finished. Prosecution still have 1 remaining witness that will require day 1 of defense starting on 1st Sept.

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao case defense witnesses scheduled start 1st Sept for 7 days (1-2,11,22-25) but likely pushed back 1/2-1 days for prosecution witness

Does this mean the added day for prosecution will take a day from defense? I hope not.

It's a sad commentary on Thai judicial system that 10 hours of court get crunched down to one or two broken sentences - reported by a farang who is not even a reporter. Look at the Nation or the Bangkok Post. Everything they've printed in their newspapers for the past month - carries more importance (in their view) for their customers than anything happening in the KT trial.

Overseas press corps and their readers/listeners worldwide are quite interested in the trial. One of many examples: the world's leading weekly news magazine (TIME) has had several feature articles on it. Yet Thailand's major newspapers would sooner publish a spat between two TV soap actors, than publish anything related to the trial.

Not only are the RTP and Thai justice system getting hammered - but also Thailand's press corps for being asleep at the wheel. If your neighbor burns a giant pile of plastic trash and the smoke wafts into your house. You and your family can choose not to mention it, but it doesn't make it smell any nicer.

Edited August 29, 2015 by boomerangutang

[IslandLover]

I understand, again from verbal dialogue, the Ace Card was from a female witness, which was outside the planned sequence of witnesses. The evidence seems very comprehensive, but reporting of the trial was from the defence, the prosecution respected the courts demands of no external communication, yes, no external reporting by media or social means, that's why many local newspapers dropped there interest.

Not that I take your post at face value, but I think you are suggesting this. The prosecution ambushed the defense with a non scheduled witness right at the end of the last day of prosecution testimony, providing no real opportunity for the defense to mount a meaningful cross examination, or to question other prosecution witnesses about what this star witness had testified. In a Western court, whatever fans of Perry Mason might think, this is an absolute no-no. It would never have been allowed. As I said, though, I put as much faith in your verbal dialog as I do in the Thai policeman's report that the UK verbally identified the phone as belonging to David Miller.

Exactly, its also my understanding that any new witness would first need to be submitted to the judge first for clearance to attend, you can't just drag in someone off the street at the last minute. Much the same as the defense asking for Dr Pornthip to be witness, the judge first had to allow this and set aside an extra day.

There is no new witness, its all crap being peddled by shills who are now desperate to spread misinformation

According to someone who was in court yesterday, the court session ended early at 6:30 p.m. (instead of 9 p.m. like the day before). The last witness of the day was supposed to be a high-ranking police officer from Koh Phangan (whom this person knew) and he was seen talking to the Prosecution lawyers and judges before it was announced that the session would finish early. Consequently his witness testimony has been delayed until September 1st. This means that the Defence's turn in court has been put back by one day as has been confirmed in Andy Hall's tweet posted by StealthEnergiser.

@thailandchilli - see HA's facebook for details.

Edited August 29, 2015 by IslandLover

[JLCrab]

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh tao trial day 12 finished. Prosecution still have 1 remaining witness that will require day 1 of defense starting on 1st Sept.

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao case defense witnesses scheduled start 1st Sept for 7 days (1-2,11,22-25) but likely pushed back 1/2-1 days for prosecution witness

Does this mean the added day for prosecution will take a day from defense? I hope not.

It's a sad commentary on Thai judicial system that 10 hours of court get crunched down to one or two broken sentences - reported by a farang who is not even a reporter. Look at the Nation or the Bangkok Post. Everything they've printed in their newspapers for the past month - carries more importance (in their view) for their customers than anything happening in the KT trial.

Press corps and their readers/listeners worldwide are quite interested in the trial. One of many examples: the world's leading weekly news magazine (TIME) has had several feature articles on it. Yet Thailand's major newspapers would sooner publish a spat between two TV soap actors, than publish anything related to the trial.

Not only are the RTP and Thai justice system getting hammered - but also Thailand's press corps for being asleep at the wheel. If your neighbor burns a giant pile of plastic trash and the smoke wafts into your house. You and your family can choose not to mention it, but it doesn't make it smell any nicer.

A newspaper runs a story in their print and online editions. They check the readership of their online edition. If there are not enough punches on the story they decide not to devote the resources required to cover that story to a story that readers are willing to read -- like maybe soap opera skirmishes.

... and if someone in your family decides to burn down the neighbors house for burning their trash, maybe it will be covered in the newspaper because people like to read that sort of stuff.

BTW in the Washington Post a few years back a lot of people on the international NGO circuit were complaining that the newspaper did not more cover a significant story. The same day there was a story on gay marriage with over 1000 comments. The NGO story had less than 10 comments and many of those were mine.

The WaPo has since not covered anything related to the NGO story.

Edited August 29, 2015 by JLCrab

[Rykbanlor]

Can you give more details?

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

I understand, again from verbal dialogue, the Ace Card was from a female witness, which was outside the planned sequence of witnesses. The evidence seems very comprehensive, but reporting of the trial was from the defence, the prosecution respected the courts demands of no external communication, yes, no external reporting by media or social means, that's why many local newspapers dropped there interest.

Boys Book, you may claim to be impartial, but in your post I like how you say "the prosecution respected the courts demands of no external communication, yes, no external reporting by media or social means, that's why many local newspapers dropped there interest."

A nice subtle jibe at the defences expense, a little rimming of the prosecution.

If you think thats a good idea in the name of transpareny, to request a blanket ban on media coverage, and you don't seem to be against it, then I don't know what kind of scruples or ethics you find worth adhering to.

"Thats why the local media have stopped covering the case", yes no doubt. And I think its shocking and ridiculous, no court transcripts allowed, no note taking in court.

Which oppressive corrupt media-censoring regime are you lucky enough to call home?

[IslandLover]

Boys Book, you may claim to be impartial, but in your post I like how you say "the prosecution respected the courts demands of no external communication, yes, no external reporting by media or social means, that's why many local newspapers dropped there interest."

A nice subtle jibe at the defences expense, a little rimming of the prosecution.

If you think thats a good idea in the name of transpareny, to request a blanket ban on media coverage, and you don't seem to be against it, then I don't know what kind of scruples or ethics you find worth adhering to.

"Thats why the local media have stopped covering the case", yes no doubt. And I think its shocking and ridiculous, no court transcripts allowed, no note taking in court.

Which oppressive corrupt media-censoring regime are you lucky enough to call home?

If a judge imposes reporting restrictions in a court case, surely it applies to ALL reporting, not just the Prosecution's side. It sometimes happens in British court cases that the press aren't able to report on a trial until a verdict is reached. However this happens very rarely and it usually applies to cases involving terrorism and national security.

[stephenterry]

BBC Myanmar correspondent Jonah Fisher said: "The Thai authorities may have thought that by charging two poor Burmese men with murder this case would quickly disappear from public view.

"If that's the case they were wrong."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29639997

How right Jonah Fisher was.

From that same article:

"Thailand's chief of police, General Somyot Poompanmoung, has admitted mistakes were made but said everyone involved in the case had worked to the best of their ability."

So the Judge(s) might ask in reaching a verdict, how can we expect our uniformed police to work better than the best of their ability.

Unfortunately the RTP's hierarchical structure and abilities accord with the Peter Principle.

[stephenterry]

The dirty truth.

Jaktip Chaijinda, deputy head of national police, said a quick resolution of the case would result in a speedy recovery of tourist numbers.

He went on: “Today the case should be finished. We want to clear it up as soon as possible so our tourist industry can bounce back.”

Tourism and Sports Minister Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul said: “I think the tourist confidence will improve.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/thailand-beach-murders-police-defend-4374673

The 'dirty truth' is also it seems to have worked. Koh Tao Pub Crawl 21 August, 2015:

How life moves on. And no doubt, more dosh in the families' coffers. I just wish these young people could have chosen a different island to enjoy themselves -or perhaps they couldn't care less. I hope all of them get back home safely.

[AleG]

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to work out the prosecution have the items for nearly a year. Stacked in a trolley somewhere?. They have had every opportunity to add substances to gain a positive result on a re-test.

The defence had the DNA taken in court upto Bangkok last Tuesday on the last flight out of Samui. Friday they had their results. Then announced we do not need anything else. We can prove our case.

As for David's phone my source tells me and their words.... Today

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box. First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So as I said to YOU Ali G.. No evidence to confirm its Davids phone and you don't have it do you. if the court don't neither do you. Unless your mystic meg with a glass ball..

Actually perhaps you are?

Until such time as someone comes up with a logical explanation on how a phone would banish from one of the victims, an identical phone appeared on the hands of the accused on the same night and subsequently rather than doing the rational thing of keeping or attempting to sell that expensive phone they smashed it up and threw it away, any person whose mental faculties are, shall we say, present, will derive the conclusion that the phone was the same and their actions spell out getting rid of incriminating evidence.

Of note though is that you, like IslandLover, show no inclination whatsoever to actually see the provenance of said phone verified; that is not the stance of someone looking for the truth in a quest for justice, that's the stance of someone that would gladly see relevant evidence being ignored because it would run contrary to a certain outcome.

[stephenterry]

The above picture saddens me. I feel I'm wasting my life following this thread. About 50-100 revellers that outnumber the posters on here - and that's just one night of hedonism. I'll say one thing - and it's not something that I ever would have thought I'd say, that if any more of these youngsters meet their fate on this cesspit of an island, I'll walk away from it.

As the old saying goes - you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Perhaps I'm too old for seeking truth and justice.

[JLCrab]

BBC Myanmar correspondent Jonah Fisher said: "The Thai authorities may have thought that by charging two poor Burmese men with murder this case would quickly disappear from public view.

"If that's the case they were wrong."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29639997

How right Jonah Fisher was.

From that same article:

"Thailand's chief of police, General Somyot Poompanmoung, has admitted mistakes were made but said everyone involved in the case had worked to the best of their ability."

So the Judge(s) might ask in reaching a verdict, how can we expect our uniformed police to work better than the best of their ability.

Unfortunately the RTP's hierarchical structure and abilities accord with the Peter Principle.

Maybe so. Deal with it.

[boomerangutang]

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh tao trial day 12 finished. Prosecution still have 1 remaining witness that will require day 1 of defense starting on 1st Sept.

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao case defense witnesses scheduled start 1st Sept for 7 days (1-2,11,22-25) but likely pushed back 1/2-1 days for prosecution witness

Does this mean the added day for prosecution will take a day from defense? I hope not.

It's a sad commentary on Thai judicial system that 10 hours of court get crunched down to one or two broken sentences - reported by a farang who is not even a reporter. Look at the Nation or the Bangkok Post. Everything they've printed in their newspapers for the past month - carries more importance (in their view) for their customers than anything happening in the KT trial.

Press corps and their readers/listeners worldwide are quite interested in the trial. One of many examples: the world's leading weekly news magazine (TIME) has had several feature articles on it. Yet Thailand's major newspapers would sooner publish a spat between two TV soap actors, than publish anything related to the trial.

Not only are the RTP and Thai justice system getting hammered - but also Thailand's press corps for being asleep at the wheel. If your neighbor burns a giant pile of plastic trash and the smoke wafts into your house. You and your family can choose not to mention it, but it doesn't make it smell any nicer.

A newspaper runs a story in their print and online editions. They check the readership of their online edition. If there are not enough punches on the story they decide not to devote the resources required to cover that story to a story that readers are willing to read -- like maybe soap opera skirmishes.

... and if someone in your family decides to burn down the neighbors house for burning their trash, maybe it will be covered in the newspaper because people like to read that sort of stuff.

BTW in the Washington Post a few years back a lot of people on the international NGO circuit were complaining that the newspaper did not more cover a significant story. The same day there was a story on gay marriage with over 1000 comments. The NGO story had less than 10 comments and many of those were mine.

The WaPo has since not covered anything related to the NGO story.

Not really true. A newspaper publishes stories they deem significant and of interest to their readers. If ISIS behead a journalist, the newspaper is not going to conduct a survey prior to publishing the story. To even the most casual reader, the Ko Tao trial has garnered immense interest within and outside Thailand. On the rare occasion when the Bkk Post publishes a KT story, the comments run for pages. The Nation is different, because only one person on the planet comments on Nation articles, and I know who that person is. The reason: everyone who might think to comment online at the Nation, is spooked by using their Facebook name, which is required to comment. It's a dumb policy by the Nation, or else simply a way by them to stifle comments.

Another indication of the interest in the KT trial and its bungled investigation is the millions of viewers/commentators worldwide. No Crab, Thai newspapers can't use the excuse of lack of interest. That's completely balderdash. The reason Thai newspapers aren't covering the trial is because of a hush order from on-high, similar to the near-gag order from inside the court.

[stephenterry]

BBC Myanmar correspondent Jonah Fisher said: "The Thai authorities may have thought that by charging two poor Burmese men with murder this case would quickly disappear from public view.

"If that's the case they were wrong."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29639997

How right Jonah Fisher was.

From that same article:

"Thailand's chief of police, General Somyot Poompanmoung, has admitted mistakes were made but said everyone involved in the case had worked to the best of their ability."

So the Judge(s) might ask in reaching a verdict, how can we expect our uniformed police to work better than the best of their ability.

Unfortunately the RTP's hierarchical structure and abilities accord with the Peter Principle.

Maybe so. Deal with it.

My point is it would be pointless for the judge to ask that question. And I don't have to 'deal' with anything. That's up to the Thai authorities if and when they decide to overhaul the RTP - but by then I'll be long dead.

[JLCrab]

My apologies -- I didn't realize you had a point.

[PaPiPuPePo]

However, we have heard many comments from visitors to KT to the effect that they all know who did but don't dare say, except that it wasn't the 2B.

what utter BS, if a tourist goes to Koh Tao unless they are the sort of person that goes out looking for trouble they will not find it on Koh Tao..other than this when have you heard of trouble in KT compared to all the other thai hotspots phangan, samui and especially the sanitly pattaya…or are you referring to Sean Mcanna?? the only person to cry wolf to get attention?

Actually.......frank......despite being so sure of yourself I'm afraid it's your concept of KT's safety that's utter nonsense. It's by no means a "dangerous neighbourhood" and the vast majority of the locals are harmless (but don't kid yourself they're pleasantly disposed towards visitors), but there are unsavoury characters and trouble there, more than a superficial glance around will reveal. I guess that's all you took, if you've even been there, unless of course....

[JLCrab]

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh tao trial day 12 finished. Prosecution still have 1 remaining witness that will require day 1 of defense starting on 1st Sept.

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao case defense witnesses scheduled start 1st Sept for 7 days (1-2,11,22-25) but likely pushed back 1/2-1 days for prosecution witness

Does this mean the added day for prosecution will take a day from defense? I hope not.

It's a sad commentary on Thai judicial system that 10 hours of court get crunched down to one or two broken sentences - reported by a farang who is not even a reporter. Look at the Nation or the Bangkok Post. Everything they've printed in their newspapers for the past month - carries more importance (in their view) for their customers than anything happening in the KT trial.

Press corps and their readers/listeners worldwide are quite interested in the trial. One of many examples: the world's leading weekly news magazine (TIME) has had several feature articles on it. Yet Thailand's major newspapers would sooner publish a spat between two TV soap actors, than publish anything related to the trial.

Not only are the RTP and Thai justice system getting hammered - but also Thailand's press corps for being asleep at the wheel. If your neighbor burns a giant pile of plastic trash and the smoke wafts into your house. You and your family can choose not to mention it, but it doesn't make it smell any nicer.

A newspaper runs a story in their print and online editions. They check the readership of their online edition. If there are not enough punches on the story they decide not to devote the resources required to cover that story to a story that readers are willing to read -- like maybe soap opera skirmishes.

... and if someone in your family decides to burn down the neighbors house for burning their trash, maybe it will be covered in the newspaper because people like to read that sort of stuff.

BTW in the Washington Post a few years back a lot of people on the international NGO circuit were complaining that the newspaper did not more cover a significant story. The same day there was a story on gay marriage with over 1000 comments. The NGO story had less than 10 comments and many of those were mine.

The WaPo has since not covered anything related to the NGO story.

Not really true. A newspaper publishes stories they deem significant and of interest to their readers. If ISIS behead a journalist, the newspaper is not going to conduct a survey prior to publishing the story. To even the most casual reader, the Ko Tao trial has garnered immense interest within and outside Thailand. On the rare occasion when the Bkk Post publishes a KT story, the comments run for pages. The Nation is different, because only one person on the planet comments on Nation articles, and I know who that person is. The reason: everyone who might think to comment online at the Nation, is spooked by using their Facebook name, which is required to comment. It's a dumb policy by the Nation, or else simply a way by them to stifle comments.

Another indication of the interest in the KT trial and its bungled investigation is the millions of viewers/commentators worldwide. No Crab, Thai newspapers can't use the excuse of lack of interest. That's completely balderdash. The reason Thai newspapers aren't covering the trial is because of a hush order from on-high, similar to the near-gag order from inside the court.

Yes really. And the fact that you disagree gives me confidence that I'm on the right track. They run the story they believe is significant and then only continue to run the story if there is sufficient readership. But I figured if I made those comments you would come on here and spew that this worldwide media coverage or lack thereof and media outlets pulling their correspondents off the story is all part of the headman's agenda.

... as sure as the sun rises.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Everyone knows the ones that want this thread closed .

But how about for justice we completely stop replying to them .

Keeping this thread open is much more important than being trolled in.

I'm surprised you feel that way .

Nobody wants this thread closed I think . What we want is a fair discussion where you can have an opinion about something without being called a troll just because you do not agree in that theory or so called facts.

If I say to you that I think B2 are guilty I would probably be called a troll.

Now my personal opinion is that there is a chance that they could be guilty , or just witnessed the murder, but they could also be completely innocent. Just let us keep this thread going and just ignore anyone you disagree with.

This thread is open and should continue to be so until we have a verdict .

So would you care to explain why you `liked` the post that closed down the previous thread on this trial?

I've noticed he "likes" quite a few of the posts by the "hang the B2" coterie, even some pretty extreme ones, and his own words at times betray his claimed objectivity.

[stephenterry]

It's clear that this trial to date has mostly been a damp squib. As Smedly said (in so many words) all the police witnesses have to say is this is what happened without any substantiated evidence to back it up. The critical omission is the asserted DNA 'evidence' that matches the B2 to the victims. It has not been presented in court. All we've had is a procession of senior police officers' hearsay testimony. And, I agree, days have been 'wasted' presenting unlawful scenarios, that may or may not be accepted by the court.

I really see no future for Thai law and order, if this trial is an example of how 'justice' is arrived at. The one thing I'm looking forward to, is a professional case presentation by the defence that shows how it should be done. Not that I expect will make any difference to the outcome. The verdict is immaterial because there will be an appeal.

[PaPiPuPePo]

The above picture saddens me. I feel I'm wasting my life following this thread. About 50-100 revellers that outnumber the posters on here - and that's just one night of hedonism. I'll say one thing - and it's not something that I ever would have thought I'd say, that if any more of these youngsters meet their fate on this cesspit of an island, I'll walk away from it.

As the old saying goes - you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Perhaps I'm too old for seeking truth and justice.

I went back to KT last spring for more diving, I'm a bit ashamed to admit.

One night I was riding my motorbike back from a late dinner along the beach walk, and at walking speed with feet down slowly rode through a pub-crawl group. I wasn't bumping into anyone of course, i.e. there was no animosity towards me among the walkers as I was going very slowly and letting them part in front of me. Anyway, as I cruised through I said "have fun! Drink safe! Don't get raped or murdered!" and the reaction from the few who said anything in response was basically a sarcastic "oh don't worry we'll avoid getting raped and murdered." Of course that just proves my point (they're unrealistic), but they're drunk and happy and I throw a wet towel on it so I didn't expect any different. If you're over 35 it's easy to forget the "what me worry" attitude of 20-somethings, that's one reason they end up dead or injured so often!

whaddyagonnado......

[boomerangutang]

Does this mean the added day for prosecution will take a day from defense? I hope not.

It's a sad commentary on Thai judicial system that 10 hours of court get crunched down to one or two broken sentences - reported by a farang who is not even a reporter. Look at the Nation or the Bangkok Post. Everything they've printed in their newspapers for the past month - carries more importance (in their view) for their customers than anything happening in the KT trial.

Press corps and their readers/listeners worldwide are quite interested in the trial. One of many examples: the world's leading weekly news magazine (TIME) has had several feature articles on it. Yet Thailand's major newspapers would sooner publish a spat between two TV soap actors, than publish anything related to the trial.

Not only are the RTP and Thai justice system getting hammered - but also Thailand's press corps for being asleep at the wheel. If your neighbor burns a giant pile of plastic trash and the smoke wafts into your house. You and your family can choose not to mention it, but it doesn't make it smell any nicer.

A newspaper runs a story in their print and online editions. They check the readership of their online edition. If there are not enough punches on the story they decide not to devote the resources required to cover that story to a story that readers are willing to read -- like maybe soap opera skirmishes.

... and if someone in your family decides to burn down the neighbors house for burning their trash, maybe it will be covered in the newspaper because people like to read that sort of stuff.

BTW in the Washington Post a few years back a lot of people on the international NGO circuit were complaining that the newspaper did not more cover a significant story. The same day there was a story on gay marriage with over 1000 comments. The NGO story had less than 10 comments and many of those were mine.

The WaPo has since not covered anything related to the NGO story.

Not really true. A newspaper publishes stories they deem significant and of interest to their readers. If ISIS behead a journalist, the newspaper is not going to conduct a survey prior to publishing the story. To even the most casual reader, the Ko Tao trial has garnered immense interest within and outside Thailand. On the rare occasion when the Bkk Post publishes a KT story, the comments run for pages. The Nation is different, because only one person on the planet comments on Nation articles, and I know who that person is. The reason: everyone who might think to comment online at the Nation, is spooked by using their Facebook name, which is required to comment. It's a dumb policy by the Nation, or else simply a way by them to stifle comments.

Another indication of the interest in the KT trial and its bungled investigation is the millions of viewers/commentators worldwide. No Crab, Thai newspapers can't use the excuse of lack of interest. That's completely balderdash. The reason Thai newspapers aren't covering the trial is because of a hush order from on-high, similar to the near-gag order from inside the court.

Yes really. And the fact that you disagree gives me confidence that I'm on the right track. They run the story they believe is significant and then only continue to run the story if there is sufficient readership. But I figured if I made those comments you would come on here and spew that this worldwide media coverage or lack thereof and media outlets pulling their correspondents off the story is all part of the headman's agenda.

... as sure as the sun rises.

As sure as the sun rises, I'll continue to speak truth. Sorry 'bout that, Crab. By all indications, the bungled KT investigation and trial are very interesting topics to people who read news reports. I didn't mention 'the Headman's agenda' - you did. I mentioned the gag order put forth by top authorities in Bkk (upon the Thai press) and the near-gag order enforced within the court.

[boomerangutang]

The above picture saddens me. I feel I'm wasting my life following this thread. About 50-100 revellers that outnumber the posters on here - and that's just one night of hedonism. I'll say one thing - and it's not something that I ever would have thought I'd say, that if any more of these youngsters meet their fate on this cesspit of an island, I'll walk away from it.

As the old saying goes - you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Perhaps I'm too old for seeking truth and justice.

I went back to KT last spring for more diving, I'm a bit ashamed to admit.

One night I was riding my motorbike back from a late dinner along the beach walk, and at walking speed with feet down slowly rode through a pub-crawl group. I wasn't bumping into anyone of course, i.e. there was no animosity towards me among the walkers as I was going very slowly and letting them part in front of me. Anyway, as I cruised through I said "have fun! Drink safe! Don't get raped or murdered!" and the reaction from the few who said anything in response was basically a sarcastic "oh don't worry we'll avoid getting raped and murdered." Of course that just proves my point (they're unrealistic), but they're drunk and happy and I throw a wet towel on it so I didn't expect any different. If you're over 35 it's easy to forget the "what me worry" attitude of 20-somethings, that's one reason they end up dead or injured so often!

whaddyagonnado......

It's somewhat like pirates of olde. Crew recruits were young and adventuresome. They'd heard a hundred stories of how pirates got injured, killed or otherwise in trouble, but they were willing to take that devil-may-care attitude out over the horizon.

[JLCrab]

Yeah and who tells those on high what to do? As sure as the sun rises you will continue to speak what you believe to be the truth and that is your right. Meanwhile there's a topic elsewhere on a Hooter's opening in Bangkok. See you later.

[boomerangutang]

Yeah and who tells those on high what to do? As sure as the sun rises you will continue to speak what you believe to be the truth and that is your right. Meanwhile there's a topic elsewhere on a Hooter's opening in Bangkok. See you later.

Crab asks: "who tells those on high what to do? "

Boomer responds: Those in charge (PM, Chief of Police, etc) are making the rules. Is that surprising to you?

[BritTim]

A little more information from the Myanmar Times: http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16198-thai-police-confirm-british-cooperation-in-koh-tao-case.html.

This may be significant:

Ko Wai Phyo has said that he was given the mobile phone by someone on Koh Tao, where the pair was killed on September 15, 2014.

It is not clear if this gift occurred on the night of the murders. It also does not explain why the phone ended up smashed. This is the only prosecution evidence that presents difficulties for the defense IMHO, though it definitely is insufficient in and of itself o support a charge of rape and murder.

Edited August 29, 2015 by BritTim

[AleG]

It's clear that this trial to date has mostly been a damp squib. As Smedly said (in so many words) all the police witnesses have to say is this is what happened without any substantiated evidence to back it up. The critical omission is the asserted DNA 'evidence' that matches the B2 to the victims. It has not been presented in court. All we've had is a procession of senior police officers' hearsay testimony. And, I agree, days have been 'wasted' presenting unlawful scenarios, that may or may not be accepted by the court.

I really see no future for Thai law and order, if this trial is an example of how 'justice' is arrived at. The one thing I'm looking forward to, is a professional case presentation by the defence that shows how it should be done. Not that I expect will make any difference to the outcome. The verdict is immaterial because there will be an appeal.

Their claims of what happened that night have changed more times than I can keep track of, in October they testified in court that they had found the phone. Now out of the blue someone gave it to them? They neglected to mention that little, insignificant detail for almost a year?

Or maybe it's been the longest hangover in history and just now things begin to get in focus, since previously they testified in court that they had been too drunk to remember anything that went on that night.

Their alibi is so flimsy it seems to need constant mending.

[AleG]

It's clear that this trial to date has mostly been a damp squib. As Smedly said (in so many words) all the police witnesses have to say is this is what happened without any substantiated evidence to back it up. The critical omission is the asserted DNA 'evidence' that matches the B2 to the victims. It has not been presented in court. All we've had is a procession of senior police officers' hearsay testimony. And, I agree, days have been 'wasted' presenting unlawful scenarios, that may or may not be accepted by the court.

I really see no future for Thai law and order, if this trial is an example of how 'justice' is arrived at. The one thing I'm looking forward to, is a professional case presentation by the defence that shows how it should be done. Not that I expect will make any difference to the outcome. The verdict is immaterial because there will be an appeal.

The judge will, when passing the verdict, provide a summary of the evidence provided and the reasoning for his/their decision.

From now until then you should come to terms with the fact that what actually has gone down in the court will be more substantial and relevant to that outcome that Internet chit-chat. Specially in view that the information that has been fueling that has in large come from people with the explicit job of seeing the defendants walk free regardless of guilt or innocence and a stated goal of having things judged in the "court of public opinion".