Can someone please explain yellow books, blue books, amphur letters

[Kenny202]

From time to time I have needed a letter from my Amphur head stating I reside here for purchase of vehicles, drivers license etc. Only good for 3 months so need to get a new one from time to time. Our Amhur head was never the friendliest issuing these (even though compensated) and he suggested we go get a letter from immigration which would enable him to give us something more permanent. So we went and got my immigration letter thinking all was ok. Then the Amphur head told us we would need to bring two prominent locals (teacher, doctor etc, 2 neighbours, our Poh Jai Ban and our Tambon head all to the office together at a time which was convenient to him....but he couldn't give us a time as he is a busy man. We would then talk about god knows what for 4 hours and if all was well I would get whatever it was I needed. So rounding up and transporting 5 or 6 people all at the same time on a busy work day all got too hard so we let it go. I assume he was talking about my name in my girlfriends blue book? And this is where I am confused. I have heard you guys talking about yellow books?

So today once again I had to go and get a new letter to buy a vehicle and the previous Amphur head has moved on and a new lady is in charge so I thought she may be a little more reasonable. She suggested all we need to do is bring the Poh Jai Ban and a neighbour however we would need to be prepared for an all day meeting so they could consider my reasons for wanting to live here and give a yes or no....to what I am still not sure. Sounded like they thought I was applying for permanent residency.

So my questions are....

What is a blue book and a yellow book. I live in my girlfriends house (we're not renting) and she has a blue book (Ta Bian?).

What is it I will receive once I complete this meeting with the Amphur head. I know a stupid question but I don't speak Thai and my girlfriend

wasn't clear on what would happen or why and never asked

I assume all of this is to avoid getting Amphur letters in the future for these things or is this not the case? The Amphur letter for things like drivers

license, vehicle purchase only good for 3 months. I was told once by someone here there are no advantages at all of going in a blue / yellow book

Any help appreciated

Edited August 18, 2015 by Kenny202

[CharlieH]

A blue book is (generally) issued to Thai Nationals and is the house registration book containing details of who (Thai) lives there, (Tabien Bahn).

The "Yellow" book is the ferang version, states where you are registered as living within the Kingdom.

Is useful for various things, BUT these do not have the same "uses" and are not as "acceptable" depending on where you live etc as with many things in Thailand there is rarely consistency across all Provinces.

It is best to consult whoever you need to present evidence too, as to what is or is not, acceptable to them.

There is a "pinned thread" all about the Yellow book here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/156485-yellow-tabien-bahn/

MOVED to Housing section.

[prakhonchai nick]

Would British subjects please note that the Yellow Book, is unacceptable to HMPO (The British Passport Office) as proof of residence, if it was issued and dated more than 1 year ago. They will reject it and ask for additional proof of residence.

[fgmr]

Would British subjects please note that the Yellow Book, is unacceptable to HMPO (The British Passport Office) as proof of residence, if it was issued and dated more than 1 year ago. They will reject it and ask for additional proof of residence.

Please explain; why would the Passport Office need your place of residence? Is this a requirement for renewing one's passport? I was issued a new passport in 2008 by the FCO at the British Embassy in Bangkok and this was never required!

As to the Yellow book, I visited the Amphur Office with my girlfriend and was told I could not get one as I was not married.

Edited August 19, 2015 by fgmr

[partington]

Would British subjects please note that the Yellow Book, is unacceptable to HMPO (The British Passport Office) as proof of residence, if it was issued and dated more than 1 year ago. They will reject it and ask for additional proof of residence.

Please explain; why would the Passport Office need your place of residence? Is this a requirement for renewing one's passport? I was issued a new passport in 2008 and this was never required!

If you are renewing a UK passport within Thailand the system has now changed. The process is handled for the UK government by a private company here called VFS. The British Embassy is no longer involved, and the completed application is sent by VFS back to the UK passport office in Liverpool.

A condition of this new procedure is that you must now supply documentary proof that you are resident in Thailand which is sent back to the UK together with your application. This system has been running for at least 2 years (and maybe longer, I haven't checked.)

[Liquorice]

Tabian Baans are proof of registered residence with your Local Amphur.

For certain procedures in Thailand at government departments you will need proof of residence.

That means continually providing a document either in the form of a letter from you Amphur, or a Certificate of Residence issued by either your local Police Station, Immigration or your Embassy. These forms of document though only have a limited life of acceptance ranging from 1-3 months depending on the department.

All Thai citizens are issued and registered in a Blue Book.

Foreign Condo owners are issued a Blue Book but their name will not appear in the book.

Foreigners with PR status can be added to there wife's Blue Book.

At all other times Foreigners will be issued a Yellow Blue.

A Foreigner cannot hold and be named in a Blue Book as the principal resident.

Land can only be registered in a Thai name. When a home is built on the land it is issued an address registered by the Amphur, connected to that land.

A Blue Book is not proof of ownership of the land or the house, but proof of the residents occupying that house, but they may also own both (deeds are the proof of ownership).

The law on issuance of Tabian Baan's to Foreigners is within the amended Civil Registration Act 2551.

Section 21. Section 38 of the Civil Registration Act B.E. 2534 shall be repealed and replaced by the following:

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet and their children born within the Thai Kingdom. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of such persons.
The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the declaration of the Cabinet.

So in theory if you have temporary permission to stay in Thailand then you are entitled to a Tabian Baan.

Unfortunately each province appears to set different requirements for issuance.

This may be down to the fact that they actually don't know the procedure and are afraid to drop a clanger and get in trouble, or they simply can't be bothered with all the documentation so make it as awkward as possible in the hope you'll succumb first.

Fortunately, my local Amphur is well versed and the Boss speaks good English.

They will issue a Yellow Tabian Ban to any foreigner holding a Non Imm Visa or Extension on production of the following documents;

Original Documents.

1. Passport.

2. Translation of Passport Home Page into Thai, with attached photo.

3. Certificate of Residence (Obtained from Police station)

4. 2^nd Passport Photo for application form.

Copies.

1. Passport Home Page.

2. Passport page of current Visa or Extension

3. House ownersTabian Ban (signed with tele number)

4. House owners ID card (signed with telephone number)

I did the translation myself using Word and IM Translator.

The only other requirement was for my landlady, the homeowner to be present and countersign the application form.

I've personally found possessing a Yellow Tabian Baan invaluable in terms of saving time and money. It's saved numerous trips to Police or Immigration to get proof of residence as and when needed. My book has been accepted without question by every government building I've visited without the request for any further proof. It was issued free of charge and has no expiry.

I'm afraid that's as much information as I can give you. Good luck.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Faz

[Kenny202]

Clear as a bell. Our Amphur head wants to have a long sit down meeting with all parties mentioned. I've lived in my girls home for 1 year, they know me at the Amphur office and I'm good friends here with our Tambon head. Mind you this is the same woman the other day insisted I sit next to her for 45 minutes while she issued an Amphur letter of residence. She had my previous letter on file so all she had to do was change the date. Apparently a lot of spacing and font changing (pssng around) had to be done

Edited August 20, 2015 by Kenny202

[fgmr]

Tabian Baans are proof of registered residence with your Local Amphur.

For certain procedures in Thailand at government departments you will need proof of residence.

That means continually providing a document either in the form of a letter from you Amphur, or a Certificate of Residence issued by either your local Police Station, Immigration or your Embassy. These forms of document though only have a limited life of acceptance ranging from 1-3 months depending on the department.

All Thai citizens are issued and registered in a Blue Book.

Foreign Condo owners are issued a Blue Book but their name will not appear in the book.

Foreigners with PR status can be added to there wife's Blue Book.

At all other times Foreigners will be issued a Yellow Blue.

A Foreigner cannot hold and be named in a Blue Book as the principal resident.

Land can only be registered in a Thai name. When a home is built on the land it is issued an address registered by the Amphur, connected to that land.

A Blue Book is not proof of ownership of the land or the house, but proof of the residents occupying that house, but they may also own both (deeds are the proof of ownership).

The law on issuance of Tabian Baan's to Foreigners is within the amended Civil Registration Act 2551.

Section 21. Section 38 of the Civil Registration Act B.E. 2534 shall be repealed and replaced by the following:

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet and their children born within the Thai Kingdom. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of such persons.

The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the declaration of the Cabinet.

So in theory if you have temporary permission to stay in Thailand then you are entitled to a Tabian Baan.

Unfortunately each province appears to set different requirements for issuance.

This may be down to the fact that they actually don't know the procedure and are afraid to drop a clanger and get in trouble, or they simply can't be bothered with all the documentation so make it as awkward as possible in the hope you'll succumb first.

Fortunately, my local Amphur is well versed and the Boss speaks good English.

They will issue a Yellow Tabian Ban to any foreigner holding a Non Imm Visa or Extension on production of the following documents;

Original Documents.

1. Passport.

2. Translation of Passport Home Page into Thai, with attached photo.

3. Certificate of Residence (Obtained from Police station)

4. 2^nd Passport Photo for application form.

Copies.

1. Passport Home Page.

2. Passport page of current Visa or Extension

3. House ownersTabian Ban (signed with tele number)

4. House owners ID card (signed with telephone number)

I did the translation myself using Word and IM Translator.

The only other requirement was for my landlady, the homeowner to be present and countersign the application form.

I've personally found possessing a Yellow Tabian Baan invaluable in terms of saving time and money. It's saved numerous trips to Police or Immigration to get proof of residence as and when needed. My book has been accepted without question by every government building I've visited without the request for any further proof. It was issued free of charge and has no expiry.

I'm afraid that's as much information as I can give you. Good luck.

Thank You very much for a very informative response. I shall now visit my local Amphur office and start to play merry hell with them for refusing to issue me with the Yellow Book.

[Liquorice]

I've attached a pdf of the full Act in English for those who may be interested.

From my own experience of dealing with government departments, sometimes taking a Thai to help translate is a big mistake.

They will not argue a negative answer because of confrontation and/or loss of face to either party.

I've found it better to go alone, be friendly, but forceful.

The counter staff have little knowledge of the law or requirements.

There is usually someone higher up that speaks broken English and that's who you want to speak to anyway.

They are familiar with issuing Blue Books to Thais, but may be unfamiliar with the law regards issuing the Yellow Books to foreigners.

You may find that your actually educating them in this respect.

The procedure to issue a Tabian Baan to a foreigner should be no different to that of issuing it to a Thai, other than documentation.

The key wording here is that the Act states;

The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality

It's not optional, it's your right to register and be issued a registration book.

The issue is the rings and hoops they may require you to jump through because they don't have a laid down procedure for it.

My advice is to take a copy of the Act with you if your having problems.

You also have the option to call the 1111 helpline for foreigners, 24/7 English speaking who will liaise with the Amphur and offer assistance.

Thai Civil Registration Act (2551) 2008..pdf

[Kenny202]

I've attached a pdf of the full Act in English for those who may be interested.

From my own experience of dealing with government departments, sometimes taking a Thai to help translate is a big mistake.
They will not argue a negative answer because of confrontation and/or loss of face to either party.
I've found it better to go alone, be friendly, but forceful.

The counter staff have little knowledge of the law or requirements.
There is usually someone higher up that speaks broken English and that's who you want to speak to anyway.
They are familiar with issuing Blue Books to Thais, but may be unfamiliar with the law regards issuing the Yellow Books to foreigners.
You may find that your actually educating them in this respect.

The procedure to issue a Tabian Baan to a foreigner should be no different to that of issuing it to a Thai, other than documentation.

The key wording here is that the Act states;
The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality
It's not optional, it's your right to register and be issued a registration book.
The issue is the rings and hoops they may require you to jump through because they don't have a laid down procedure for it.

My advice is to take a copy of the Act with you if your having problems.
You also have the option to call the 1111 helpline for foreigners, 24/7 English speaking who will liaise with the Amphur and offer assistance.

I agree ie go alone. I've had similar instances with my wife where I know someone can speak English but choose to talk directly with my wife who has usually misinterpreted the point of the whole thing anyway.
Clarity is not her strong point. It's been a constant point of contention

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kenny202

[Kenny202]

Coincedentally I was at the local Police Station today getting some papers witnessed. The policeman mentioned he would like to come to our home one day because we need to register I live in the home etc. Would it be possible the Police can sort the yellow book / Blue book (if thats what I need?) or would that be for a different thing? They were friendly enough but couldn't seem to understand how I could live here without working or why the hell would I want to live here when I could live back home in Australia. Maybe they want to have a sniff around haha

My situation is that I am living with my girlfriend in her home, have lived here for 1 year. I was under the assumption a yellow book was for someone renting or in a condo. I was told by the local Amphur the procedure they wanted me to do is so I can be recorded in my girls Blue house book. The rubbish she was going on with about if they would or wouldn't approve my application you would think she was granting me a Visa or something. She even said it would be easier if we had a child or were married as I would have a "valid" reason for living in the local area then. Maybe my girl made that up haha

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kenny202

[Liquorice]

I was told by the local Amphur the procedure they wanted me to do is so I can be recorded in my girls Blue house book.

And that may be the problem in a nutshell Kenny.

You can only be recorded in a blue book if you are married and have PR status. (Permanent residency)

Sounds as though your Amphur is trying to circumvent the conditions for you being entered on her blue book, hence all the ridiculous requests.

I think you have to make it clear you want your own registration.

A Yellow book.

If you want a copy of a Yellow Tabian Baan issued to a foreigner, send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send you a copy of mine.

Having an example of what you require can sometimes help and avoids mistranslation.

Incidentally, prior to getting my own Tabian Baan, I got my Certificates of Residence from.........my local Police Station.

[Sheryl]

I am confused regarding the situation of a foreigner residing in a house owned buy/registered to a Thai. SOme posts above indicate that they would be entered into it, others that this is possible only if the foreigner has PR status.

But everyone is supposed to be listed in a tabian ban somewhere. Where are foreigners resident in a Thai home to be listed then? I understand the point about foreigners not being eligible to be listed in a blue tabian ban as principal resident (and indeed, my own tabian ban for the house I own is blank), and instead needing to be issued a yellow tabian ban. But a foreigner who is not the registered owner/principal resident cannot get a yellow tabian ban; the hosue they live in is already registered to another person (Thai).

So how does this work? I am specifcally asking with regard to legal migrant workers from neighboring countries, if that makes a difference.

[Liquorice]

Hi Sheryl,

Having a Tabian Baan does not prove ownership. Ownership and House registration are separate.

All Thais must be entered on a register (not much different than most western Countries)

The Thai house book denotes name, registered address and a registration number.

In 2008 they amended the Thai Civil Registration Act to allow foreigners to also register, but a Yellow book is issued which immediately alerts any government office that you are not of Thai citizenship.

They allowed foreigners with PR and married to a Thai to be added to her blue book, but a foreigner cannot own and be named as the principal resident of the home, even though the foreigner may own the home.

I rent a house in Issan. The Thai owner lives elsewhere, so I am the principal resident.

As such I am entitled to register my address and be issued a Yellow book.

You own your house and was presumably issued a Blue book, but without your name included because you were a foreigner and you cannot be entered in a blue book as the principal resident (unless you attained Thai citizenship).

I'm guessing you therefore took the Blue book to your Amphur who issued you a Yellow book in which you were named as the principal resident.

When a Thai is born, the child must be placed on the Thai Civil Register of citizens after 15 days.

Their registration will be entered in the parents house book.

They cannot get an ID card until they are 7 years old.

It's optional for a foreigner to register.

The Blue book, Yellow book system quickly helps government departments identify the status of the individual.

For example if you have a Yellow book they know you are a foreigner and may ask for further documents such as Non Imm Visa, or extension to establish your permission to stay in Thailand.

Alternatively a foreigner added to a Blue book, should be identified as having PR status and therefore exempt of Visa or extensions documentation.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Faz

[Sheryl]

No I did not get a yellow tabian ban (just to much hassle) but that is not the issue here. The issue is a foreigner (not me) who is not the principal resident residing in someone else's home. Specifically a migrant worker (legally registeted) residing in a thai person's home. Can they be listed in the tabian ban as one of the house residents? They certainly can't be idsued a yellow tabian ban since they are not the principal resident and a tabian has already been issued for that address.

[Swiss1960]

I've attached a pdf of the full Act in English for those who may be interested.

From my own experience of dealing with government departments, sometimes taking a Thai to help translate is a big mistake.

They will not argue a negative answer because of confrontation and/or loss of face to either party.

I've found it better to go alone, be friendly, but forceful.

The counter staff have little knowledge of the law or requirements.

There is usually someone higher up that speaks broken English and that's who you want to speak to anyway.

They are familiar with issuing Blue Books to Thais, but may be unfamiliar with the law regards issuing the Yellow Books to foreigners.

You may find that your actually educating them in this respect.

The procedure to issue a Tabian Baan to a foreigner should be no different to that of issuing it to a Thai, other than documentation.

The key wording here is that the Act states;

The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality

It's not optional, it's your right to register and be issued a registration book.

The issue is the rings and hoops they may require you to jump through because they don't have a laid down procedure for it.

My advice is to take a copy of the Act with you if your having problems.

You also have the option to call the 1111 helpline for foreigners, 24/7 English speaking who will liaise with the Amphur and offer assistance.

Interesting, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this, so please allow me to ask you my own question:_

• I have rented a house and living there with my girlfriend. We think about later have her daughter come to live with us, as the schools in my are are better than where the girl now lives
• Rental contract mentions my name and the owner's name (UK guy, I assume he owns through a Thai company together with his Thai wife, as they own several houses in our area)
• I was going to get an address (residence) certificate from the immigration office in order to apply for my Thai driver licence, the certificate being valid for 3 month "only".

Now it looks from your text that my GF could be listed as permanent residence in a blue Tabien Baan and me in a yellow Tabien Baan according to your post. My questions:

• Do I need written approval from the owner before I apply for a yellow Tabien Baan for myself or could I go directly to the Amphur in my area with the contract only?
• What other documents (i.e. Blue Tabien Baan showing ownership) would I need before I can go?
• Can my GF get a blue Tabien Baan without being listed in the rental contract or would we have to include her in the rental contract first?

Main reason is that I read a lot about the need for address certificates for various reasons and the yellow Tabien Baan would replace that for me. Other reason is that I read in another thread that my GF's daughter can only go to school in our district when her name is listed in a blue Tabien Baan in that area.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Edit Add: I am here in retirement extentions, if that is of any importance for above questions

Edited August 27, 2015 by Swiss1960

[Liquorice]

No I did not get a yellow tabian ban (just to much hassle) but that is not the issue here. The issue is a foreigner (not me) who is not the principal resident residing in someone else's home. Specifically a migrant worker (legally registeted) residing in a thai person's home. Can they be listed in the tabian ban as one of the house residents? They certainly can't be idsued a yellow tabian ban since they are not the principal resident and a tabian has already been issued for that address.

Apologies if I have misled here. I used the word 'principal' resident from my own perspective.

You only need to be a resident to get a Tabian Baan.

Some Thais will have one house book containing all family members, where other families will all have their own individual house book for the same address. There is no limit to the number of house books that can be issued to a particular residence, either blue or yellow.

(My g/f house has 4 separate blue books issued, one for each resident. If I moved into that residence I could get a yellow book issued in my name as a 5th resident)

It's a very interesting question Sheryl.

On the one hand a migrant worker is also a foreigner, so the law should equally apply.

On the other hand being a migrant worker he will have a valid work permit and presumably comes under one of the many reciprocal agreements with bordering Countries, so different laws may apply.

I cannot give a definitive answer, but if it's of real importance to you, I certainly don't mind enquiry at my very helpful local Amphur and get clarification of that particular situation, although knowing the nationality of the migrant may make a difference to the answer.

[Liquorice]

I've attached a pdf of the full Act in English for those who may be interested.

From my own experience of dealing with government departments, sometimes taking a Thai to help translate is a big mistake.

They will not argue a negative answer because of confrontation and/or loss of face to either party.

I've found it better to go alone, be friendly, but forceful.

The counter staff have little knowledge of the law or requirements.

There is usually someone higher up that speaks broken English and that's who you want to speak to anyway.

They are familiar with issuing Blue Books to Thais, but may be unfamiliar with the law regards issuing the Yellow Books to foreigners.

You may find that your actually educating them in this respect.

The procedure to issue a Tabian Baan to a foreigner should be no different to that of issuing it to a Thai, other than documentation.

The key wording here is that the Act states;

The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality

It's not optional, it's your right to register and be issued a registration book.

The issue is the rings and hoops they may require you to jump through because they don't have a laid down procedure for it.

My advice is to take a copy of the Act with you if your having problems.

You also have the option to call the 1111 helpline for foreigners, 24/7 English speaking who will liaise with the Amphur and offer assistance.

Interesting, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this, so please allow me to ask you my own question:_

• I have rented a house and living there with my girlfriend. We think about later have her daughter come to live with us, as the schools in my are are better than where the girl now lives
• Rental contract mentions my name and the owner's name (UK guy, I assume he owns through a Thai company together with his Thai wife, as they own several houses in our area)
• I was going to get an address (residence) certificate from the immigration office in order to apply for my Thai driver licence, the certificate being valid for 3 month "only".

Now it looks from your text that my GF could be listed as permanent residence in a blue Tabien Baan and me in a yellow Tabien Baan according to your post. My questions:

• Do I need written approval from the owner before I apply for a yellow Tabien Baan for myself or could I go directly to the Amphur in my area with the contract only?
• What other documents (i.e. Blue Tabien Baan showing ownership) would I need before I can go?
• Can my GF get a blue Tabien Baan without being listed in the rental contract or would we have to include her in the rental contract first?

Main reason is that I read a lot about the need for address certificates for various reasons and the yellow Tabien Baan would replace that for me. Other reason is that I read in another thread that my GF's daughter can only go to school in our district when her name is listed in a blue Tabien Baan in that area.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Edit Add: I am here in retirement extentions, if that is of any importance for above questions

The Tabian Baan system is a registration of a person residing at a certain address.

You can only be registered at one address and hold one Tabian Baan Your girlfriend can either change the address in her existing Blue book (to your address), or can request a new book and the old one will be destroyed. She can do exactly the same for her daughter.

It's a very simple procedure for a Thai to do.

That would then allow her daughter to register at a local school.

It would be polite to notify the owner that you are applying for Tabian Baans at his property. He may or may not understand this system although his Thai wife should and they shouldn't object.

In regards to yourself applying for a Yellow Tabian Baan, I would first enquire at your local Amphur as to their requirements for documentation and procedure. Please read post #6 above for the documents and procedure my local Amphur requested as a guide.

My rental contract was never requested, but the landlord did have to countersign the application form.

Where do you live and do you know if other foreigners in your area have been successful in getting a Yellow Tabian Baan?

Some Amphurs have been particularly awkward, others very obliging in issuing yellow books.

[Swiss1960]

Interesting, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this, so please allow me to ask you my own question:_

• I have rented a house and living there with my girlfriend. We think about later have her daughter come to live with us, as the schools in my are are better than where the girl now lives
• Rental contract mentions my name and the owner's name (UK guy, I assume he owns through a Thai company together with his Thai wife, as they own several houses in our area)
• I was going to get an address (residence) certificate from the immigration office in order to apply for my Thai driver licence, the certificate being valid for 3 month "only".

Now it looks from your text that my GF could be listed as permanent residence in a blue Tabien Baan and me in a yellow Tabien Baan according to your post. My questions:

• Do I need written approval from the owner before I apply for a yellow Tabien Baan for myself or could I go directly to the Amphur in my area with the contract only?
• What other documents (i.e. Blue Tabien Baan showing ownership) would I need before I can go?
• Can my GF get a blue Tabien Baan without being listed in the rental contract or would we have to include her in the rental contract first?

Main reason is that I read a lot about the need for address certificates for various reasons and the yellow Tabien Baan would replace that for me. Other reason is that I read in another thread that my GF's daughter can only go to school in our district when her name is listed in a blue Tabien Baan in that area.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Edit Add: I am here in retirement extentions, if that is of any importance for above questions

The Tabian Baan system is a registration of a person residing at a certain address.

You can only be registered at one address and hold one Tabian Baan Your girlfriend can either change the address in her existing Blue book (to your address), or can request a new book and the old one will be destroyed. She can do exactly the same for her daughter.

It's a very simple procedure for a Thai to do.

That would then allow her daughter to register at a local school.

It would be polite to notify the owner that you are applying for Tabian Baans at his property. He may or may not understand this system although his Thai wife should and they shouldn't object.

In regards to yourself applying for a Yellow Tabian Baan, I would first enquire at your local Amphur as to their requirements for documentation and procedure. Please read post #6 above for the documents and procedure my local Amphur requested as a guide.

My rental contract was never requested, but the landlord did have to countersign the application form.

Where do you live and do you know if other foreigners in your area have been successful in getting a Yellow Tabian Baan?

Some Amphurs have been particularly awkward, others very obliging in issuing yellow books.

Great, thanks. Sure I will not do anything without the knowledge of my landlord, just want to make sure I know more about the possibilities.

Am living in Nong Prue, so I assume my Amphur is for Banglamung, somewhere on Sukhumvit road in Naklua. Have not yet talked with others in my village, but will do so also.

[Liquorice]

Interesting, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this, so please allow me to ask you my own question:_

• I have rented a house and living there with my girlfriend. We think about later have her daughter come to live with us, as the schools in my are are better than where the girl now lives
• Rental contract mentions my name and the owner's name (UK guy, I assume he owns through a Thai company together with his Thai wife, as they own several houses in our area)
• I was going to get an address (residence) certificate from the immigration office in order to apply for my Thai driver licence, the certificate being valid for 3 month "only".

Now it looks from your text that my GF could be listed as permanent residence in a blue Tabien Baan and me in a yellow Tabien Baan according to your post. My questions:

• Do I need written approval from the owner before I apply for a yellow Tabien Baan for myself or could I go directly to the Amphur in my area with the contract only?
• What other documents (i.e. Blue Tabien Baan showing ownership) would I need before I can go?
• Can my GF get a blue Tabien Baan without being listed in the rental contract or would we have to include her in the rental contract first?

Main reason is that I read a lot about the need for address certificates for various reasons and the yellow Tabien Baan would replace that for me. Other reason is that I read in another thread that my GF's daughter can only go to school in our district when her name is listed in a blue Tabien Baan in that area.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Edit Add: I am here in retirement extentions, if that is of any importance for above questions

The Tabian Baan system is a registration of a person residing at a certain address.

You can only be registered at one address and hold one Tabian Baan Your girlfriend can either change the address in her existing Blue book (to your address), or can request a new book and the old one will be destroyed. She can do exactly the same for her daughter.

It's a very simple procedure for a Thai to do.

That would then allow her daughter to register at a local school.

It would be polite to notify the owner that you are applying for Tabian Baans at his property. He may or may not understand this system although his Thai wife should and they shouldn't object.

In regards to yourself applying for a Yellow Tabian Baan, I would first enquire at your local Amphur as to their requirements for documentation and procedure. Please read post #6 above for the documents and procedure my local Amphur requested as a guide.

My rental contract was never requested, but the landlord did have to countersign the application form.

Where do you live and do you know if other foreigners in your area have been successful in getting a Yellow Tabian Baan?

Some Amphurs have been particularly awkward, others very obliging in issuing yellow books.

Great, thanks. Sure I will not do anything without the knowledge of my landlord, just want to make sure I know more about the possibilities.

Am living in Nong Prue, so I assume my Amphur is for Banglamung, somewhere on Sukhumvit road in Naklua. Have not yet talked with others in my village, but will do so also.

Your girlfriend shouldn't have a problem locating your local Amphur office.

She can still change her address regardless of what you do. Copies of her Blue book and ID card at your address can be used instead of keep pestering your landlord for copies of his.

[Sheryl]

Apologies if I have misled here. I used the word 'principal' resident from my own perspective.

You only need to be a resident to get a Tabian Baan.

Some Thais will have one house book containing all family members, where other families will all have their own individual house book for the same address. There is no limit to the number of house books that can be issued to a particular residence, either blue or yellow.

(My g/f house has 4 separate blue books issued, one for each resident. If I moved into that residence I could get a yellow book issued in my name as a 5th resident)

It's a very interesting question Sheryl.

On the one hand a migrant worker is also a foreigner, so the law should equally apply.

On the other hand being a migrant worker he will have a valid work permit and presumably comes under one of the many reciprocal agreements with bordering Countries, so different laws may apply.

I cannot give a definitive answer, but if it's of real importance to you, I certainly don't mind enquiry at my very helpful local Amphur and get clarification of that particular situation, although knowing the nationality of the migrant may make a difference to the answer.

Thanks for the clarification - I did not realize multiple tabians could be issued for the same address as I have only seen books with multiple people listed in one.

The migrant in question is Cambodian and the reason for asking is that the local school is saying his child can enroll but must first be entered into the tabian ban of a Thai family, which to my understanding isn't possible. (Though a neighbor who knows both them and me well has kindly offered). I suppose it could be only the child that gets into the blue tabian ban, don't know if being a minor changes matters any - she's still not a Thai national.

Appreciate offer to ask your Ampur but what they say will not necessarily be what the Ampur here would say. As there are a number of migrant children already enrolled in this same school I will try to find out what the "tabian ban" story is for them first and then decide from there whether to try to get the child entered in a blue tabian ban or not.

[Liquorice]

Apologies if I have misled here. I used the word 'principal' resident from my own perspective.

You only need to be a resident to get a Tabian Baan.

Some Thais will have one house book containing all family members, where other families will all have their own individual house book for the same address. There is no limit to the number of house books that can be issued to a particular residence, either blue or yellow.

(My g/f house has 4 separate blue books issued, one for each resident. If I moved into that residence I could get a yellow book issued in my name as a 5th resident)

It's a very interesting question Sheryl.

On the one hand a migrant worker is also a foreigner, so the law should equally apply.

On the other hand being a migrant worker he will have a valid work permit and presumably comes under one of the many reciprocal agreements with bordering Countries, so different laws may apply.

I cannot give a definitive answer, but if it's of real importance to you, I certainly don't mind enquiry at my very helpful local Amphur and get clarification of that particular situation, although knowing the nationality of the migrant may make a difference to the answer.

Thanks for the clarification - I did not realize multiple tabians could be issued for the same address as I have only seen books with multiple people listed in one.

The migrant in question is Cambodian and the reason for asking is that the local school is saying his child can enroll but must first be entered into the tabian ban of a Thai family, which to my understanding isn't possible. (Though a neighbor who knows both them and me well has kindly offered). I suppose it could be only the child that gets into the blue tabian ban, don't know if being a minor changes matters any - she's still not a Thai national.

Appreciate offer to ask your Ampur but what they say will not necessarily be what the Ampur here would say. As there are a number of migrant children already enrolled in this same school I will try to find out what the "tabian ban" story is for them first and then decide from there whether to try to get the child entered in a blue tabian ban or not.

Hi Sheryl,

Here's a heads up for you to start your inquiry. My girlfriend once employed a Cambodian worker and tells me this is the process although she cannot clearly relate the names of documents in English.

Firstly the Cambodian should hold a Visa allowing him to work in Thailand.

When he finds work the employer should go to his local Amphur with the worker to register him. The worker will be given a document detailing his name and address. (This also means the employer may be eligible for tax from the profits made by the worker).

It sounds pretty akin to a Certificate of Residence from what my g/f is telling me.

With that document from the Amphur his children can be registered in any Thai blue book, either the employer, or his landlord, or anyone willing to place them in their book. The Thai, the worker and the children must be present at the Amphur to do it.

My g/f tells me it's the same procedure throughout Thailand for 'migrant workers'.

Good luck and very heart-warming to know your trying to help a Cambodian child with their education.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Faz

[farangmick]

Would British subjects please note that the Yellow Book, is unacceptable to HMPO (The British Passport Office) as proof of residence, if it was issued and dated more than 1 year ago. They will reject it and ask for additional proof of residence.

Please explain; why would the Passport Office need your place of residence? Is this a requirement for renewing one's passport? I was issued a new passport in 2008 and this was never required!

If you are renewing a UK passport within Thailand the system has now changed. The process is handled for the UK government by a private company here called VFS. The British Embassy is no longer involved, and the completed application is sent by VFS back to the UK passport office in Liverpool.

A condition of this new procedure is that you must now supply documentary proof that you are resident in Thailand which is sent back to the UK together with your application. This system has been running for at least 2 years (and maybe longer, I haven't checked.)

The documentary proof of residence (UK) is simple. Anything official from the UK posted to a Thai address will do. I have just renewed my passport. I used the same annual pension statement from my pension provider that I used for my proof of income letter. The staff told me that a statement from my UK bank, addressed to my Thai address would also suffice. Found VFS very efficient.

[farangmick]

Tabian Baans are proof of registered residence with your Local Amphur.

For certain procedures in Thailand at government departments you will need proof of residence.

That means continually providing a document either in the form of a letter from you Amphur, or a Certificate of Residence issued by either your local Police Station, Immigration or your Embassy. These forms of document though only have a limited life of acceptance ranging from 1-3 months depending on the department.

All Thai citizens are issued and registered in a Blue Book.

Foreign Condo owners are issued a Blue Book but their name will not appear in the book.

Foreigners with PR status can be added to there wife's Blue Book.

At all other times Foreigners will be issued a Yellow Blue.

A Foreigner cannot hold and be named in a Blue Book as the principal resident.

Land can only be registered in a Thai name. When a home is built on the land it is issued an address registered by the Amphur, connected to that land.

A Blue Book is not proof of ownership of the land or the house, but proof of the residents occupying that house, but they may also own both (deeds are the proof of ownership).

The law on issuance of Tabian Baan's to Foreigners is within the amended Civil Registration Act 2551.

Section 21. Section 38 of the Civil Registration Act B.E. 2534 shall be repealed and replaced by the following:

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Thai Kingdom as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration of the Cabinet and their children born within the Thai Kingdom. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of such persons.

The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the declaration of the Cabinet.

So in theory if you have temporary permission to stay in Thailand then you are entitled to a Tabian Baan.

Unfortunately each province appears to set different requirements for issuance.

This may be down to the fact that they actually don't know the procedure and are afraid to drop a clanger and get in trouble, or they simply can't be bothered with all the documentation so make it as awkward as possible in the hope you'll succumb first.

Fortunately, my local Amphur is well versed and the Boss speaks good English.

They will issue a Yellow Tabian Ban to any foreigner holding a Non Imm Visa or Extension on production of the following documents;

Original Documents.

1. Passport.

2. Translation of Passport Home Page into Thai, with attached photo.

3. Certificate of Residence (Obtained from Police station)

4. 2^nd Passport Photo for application form.

Copies.

1. Passport Home Page.

2. Passport page of current Visa or Extension

3. House ownersTabian Ban (signed with tele number)

4. House owners ID card (signed with telephone number)

I did the translation myself using Word and IM Translator.

The only other requirement was for my landlady, the homeowner to be present and countersign the application form.

I've personally found possessing a Yellow Tabian Baan invaluable in terms of saving time and money. It's saved numerous trips to Police or Immigration to get proof of residence as and when needed. My book has been accepted without question by every government building I've visited without the request for any further proof. It was issued free of charge and has no expiry.

I'm afraid that's as much information as I can give you. Good luck.

Mine was even easier.We wandered into Amphur on a whim with passport, marriage cert, wife's blue book and ID card, no copies. Few questions on our relationship written down, asked for my parents names and dates of birth (the latter I had to make up). Twenty minutes later, yellow book. And FREE.

[Sheryl]

Hi Sheryl,

Here's a heads up for you to start your inquiry. My girlfriend once employed a Cambodian worker and tells me this is the process although she cannot clearly relate the names of documents in English.

Firstly the Cambodian should hold a Visa allowing him to work in Thailand.

When he finds work the employer should go to his local Amphur with the worker to register him. The worker will be given a document detailing his name and address. (This also means the employer may be eligible for tax from the profits made by the worker).

It sounds pretty akin to a Certificate of Residence from what my g/f is telling me.

With that document from the Amphur his children can be registered in any Thai blue book, either the employer, or his landlord, or anyone willing to place them in their book. The Thai, the worker and the children must be present at the Amphur to do it.

My g/f tells me it's the same procedure throughout Thailand for 'migrant workers'.

Good luck and very heart-warming to know your trying to help a Cambodian child with their education.

Dear Faz,

Thanks so much -- exactly what I needed to know, and very encouraging. Makes what the school authorities told me make sense.

Still in the early stages of sorting out the couples' visas, WP ect but hope to have it all arranged in time for the child to start the new school year in April.

Thanks again

[Sheryl]

If I can now introduce a new question related to yellow tabian bans:

I am in the process of trying to obtain one. I live in a house I built on land that is leased (usufruct) for 30 years. The owner of the land is a Foundation, not an individual. The usufruct is properly registered on the chanote with the land office etc. At the time the house was registered, a blank blue tabian ban was issued and given to me, with the explanation that it contained no names because a foriegner can't have their name in a tabian ban.

First attempted to get a yellow tabian ban shortly after that (this is 18 years ago). Failed as the ampur at that time had no idea at all what a yellow tabian ban was.

Left it at that for years but it has been a problem intermittently that I don't have one. Gotten to be more of a problem of late as my immigration office has taken to asking for it at each extension of stay. And I am shortly planning to apply to the land office to hire migrant workers as domestic help for which I am sure they will want to see my tabian ban.

So, attempt #2. Matters have improved somewhat in that the ampur now knows was a yellow tabian ban is, and that they can be issued to foreigners.

But they are all tied up in knots over the fact that the blue tabian ban for my house has no Thai person's name in it and that the house itself is not owned by a Thai.Long long discussions, showed all the documentation of the land lease, etc etc. Bottom line being the official in question is unfamiliar with usufructs. and kept insisting he needed me to bring in the "land lord" of my house. At one point said just bring in any Thai person, a neighbor, whatever. Used the 1111 number, more long discussions back and forth with 4 way translations (the English speaker who answered at 1111 having to then describe the issue to a what I guess was an expert in the matter who does not speak English, who would then talk to the Ampur, then back to he English speaker who would then talk to me etc...you get the picture).

Sensing that bringing in just any Thai person might back fire I asked what the "any Thai person" I was supposed to bring in would be expected to do, it emerged they would be expected to be listed as owner of the house (at one point the 111 office helpfully told me I would have to just sell my house to a Thai!) and be entered as such on the tabian ban. Naturally I was not happy with this.

After even more discussion it was settled that I would bring in an officer of the Foundation which owns the land leased to me on which my house is built, that at least makes some sense since they are in fact the owners of, if not the house, at least the land it is on.

What I am still unclear on is how and why the Foundation, or a representative of same, can be entered into the Blue Tabian ban which seems to be the intention. Can anyone clarify:

1) In order for a yellow tabian ban to be issued, does there first have to be a blue tabian ban for that address with a Thai person named in it? (Seems to be the ampur's contention, but does not fit anything I have read) or

2) Does the yellow tabian ban require, or at least have a space for, listing of the owner of the property? The Blue tabian does not as far as I can see). I know the purpose of the tabian is documentation of residence, not proof of ownership, but the ampur officer kept talking about needing a Thai a house owner ???.

3) If there is no way to record a person/organization as owner of the property and the ampur wants to actually list a Thai individual as living at this address, won't there be a problem listing someone who lives elsewhere and is thus in a tabian ban elsewhere?

Any thing else that could shed light on this? I need to be able to clearly explain to the Foundation what it is I need them to do at the ampur.

I have researched it on line and from what I read, all I should need to trade a blue tabian for a yellow one should be passport, visa and papers showing my right to live there which in this instance is the land lease papers (they are all in Thai, there are several of them and I am not clear if one is specific to the house as opposed to the land. In any event the ampur Registrar refused to even look through them).

I think if it were a rental it would have been fine with just the rental contract and maybe an appearance by the landlord and photocopy of his Thai ID card. It's the usufruct that has thrown them.

P.S. I already have a Certificate of residence from Immigration. Ampur waived it aside as irrelevant.

[Liquorice]

Hi Sheryl,

You've thrown a spanner in the works by being the first foreigner to own a house with the land registered to a Foundation and they simply don't know what to do in this situation.

Firstly a Tabian Baan has absolutely nothing to do with ownership of a house or land. Deeds are proof of ownership.

The Tabian Baan is only proof of registration of address under the Civil Registration Act

When a plot of land is purchased and a house built on it, the Amphur will issue an address, for that house, on that plot of land.

When the lawyer concludes the sale, he notifies the Amphur who will issue him with a blue Tabian Ban (no name) who on completion should hand that TB to the purchaser. A Thai then takes this to the Amphur along with his old TB from his previous address and has his name included in the new book, while the old book is confiscated.

The Civilian register will be changed to show their new address.

They record where every Thai lives throughout their lives (a Civilian Register).

A Thai can own as many properties as he likes but he can only be registered once in one TB. (His choice)

In the case of a foreigner who purchases a new house, the law doesn't allow a foreigner to be registered in a blue TB, which is for Thai citizens only (exception being a foreigner with PR who can be added to a blue book, but not as the principal resident)

A Yellow TB is for non Thai citizen, temporarily living in Thailand, who want to register their address.

By law you as a foreigner cannot be named in a blue TB as the sole resident of the home that you own.

The Amphur should be quite aware that you cannot be named into a blue TB, hence you were issued a nameless TB.

You should only need proof of ID (passport, probably translated into Thai) your existing blue book and either a member of the Foundation which you have an usufruct with, or the Village head. (You don't have a landlord)

If they can ask themselves how come you already have a blue TB for your address, then it should be logic that you need the yellow TB to register your name against that address. Logic isn't their strongest attribute unfortunately.

Get away from this ownership crap, that has nothing to do with TB's.

You simply want to be added to the civilian register and be issued a TB with your name at that address.

Blue.........No, Yellow.........Yes.

You should keep both the blue and yellow books in your case. The blue being the original registration of the address at that plot of land. If you ever sell it may be requested.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Faz

[Langsuan Man]

Unfortunately, like Immigration, you are caught in the web of your local amphur, who, unfortunately makes up the rules as they go along

Despite there being set procedures on exactly what is needed by Bangkok, every amphur interprets the rules themselves

Just search Yellow Book here at TV and you will find that almost every amphur comes up with something different. I love the ones that require that your Passport be translated into Thai, or that you have exact dates of your parents date and place of birth (as if the Thais can check) or the really biggie of the Blue Book

When a new condo is built and the builder wants to register it, he has to apply for Blue Books for each room / apartment since all the Blue Book means is that the address is registered. Obviously he is not going to have names in the Blue Book since no one has lived there. Unfortunately you are dealing with logic here and that doesn't sit well with Thai government officials

As much as I hate the thought but I think that if you really want and need the Yellow Book that you find a lawyer and have him deal with it. At least when he explains to the amphur what the law is, it will be Thai on Thai and not become another matter of face

[Sheryl]

.....You should only need proof of ID (passport, probably translated into Thai) your existing blue book and either a member of the Foundation which you have an usufruct with, or the Village head. (You don't have a landlord)

If they can ask themselves how come you already have a blue TB for your address, then it should be logic that you need the yellow TB to register your name against that address. Logic isn't their strongest attribute unfortunately.

Get away from this ownership crap, that has nothing to do with TB's.

You simply want to be added to the civilian register and be issued a TB with your name at that address.

I know the TBs have nothing to do with ownership but the ampur is specifically stating they intend to list the Thai person I bring in on the TB as owner. From what I read, although a TB does not require listing of who owns the house, that information can be provided.

It's an issue not just for me but also for the Thai person who would be roped into this. They aren't going to have a problem coming with me to attest that they represent the Foundation that owns the land and I have a lease from them with right to live there blah blah. (Shouldn't be necessary since they have already given me documentation tho that effect, which I tried to give the ampur, but never mind...). But they likely will have a problem being made to change from their own TB onto mine, or being listed, as an individual, as the "owner" of the house on either my yellow TB or the blank blue TB. Which unfortunately seems, for some unknown reason, to be the plan. It may not carry any legal weight in terms of ownership but it is apt to render the Thai involved very nervous/gun shy of the whole proceeding.

Anyhow you have confirmed my understanding that this is not correct.

Indeed the problem is that the official has never encountered this situation before. Also never heard of a usufruct and unaware that foreigners can legally hold one, and of course not willing to learn.

Of course this is still a step forward from some 15 years back when they emphatically denied that there was such a thing as a TB for foreigners...

[sappersrest]

Yellow book

As my wife and I are both British and "have bought our house" we had to supply the following to the Sansai district office here in Chiang Mai

2 x forms signed by Thai witnesses, one a neighbour and the local PooYaiBan ( a must)

Copies of all the following:-

1. residency letter from immigration

2. copy of passport

3. translation of passport into thai

4. 3 photographs

5. chanote of property including importantly for us lease agreement for land (the lease that was issued by the land office not the usufruct document) Also you should be listed on the chanote as the leasee

6. blue book even though it is blank

7. copies of the witness id card

Good luck