What is involved in getting a Thai work visa for ASEAN citizen ?

[KhaoNiaw]

Hotel occupations are included in the 8 professional areas in which the AEC will initially allow mobility of skilled workers and I think this will include housekeeping, front office, food and beverage and kitchen work.

It's not free movement though because it will be open to those who hold qualifications under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Agreement on Tourism Professionals, an attempt to introduce common competency standards On this, the training of the trainers is already well-advanced but I'm not sure when the first qualified members of the workforce are due to appear.

Do not hold your breath!

Very few "hotel occupations" will qualify as "professional " or "skilled" under the the ASEAN agreements

You might be surprised - even bellboy is on the list.

http://www.asean.org/images/2013/economic/handbook%20mra%20tourism_opt.pdf

Edited August 23, 2015 by KhaoNiaw

[Sheryl]

Is there any way that a non-Thai not employed in Thailand (i.e. expat on extension of stay for retirement ) can obtain a work permit to hire a foreign national as domestic help? Can't seem to find anything on that. In reality high percentage of maids etc are Burmese or Khmer. Is there any way to make it legal, for an ordinary householder (not a company)? And one who is themselves a foreigner?

Yes, its called a non immigrant L-A visa an work book ( unlike a work permit which ties you to a specific job the work book allows u to work anywhere in the provenience it is issued,

The process starts at the labor dept with the prospective employer obtaining a Quota.

thanks! Any idea of cost?

[nowretired]

Hotel occupations are included in the 8 professional areas in which the AEC will initially allow mobility of skilled workers and I think this will include housekeeping, front office, food and beverage and kitchen work.

It's not free movement though because it will be open to those who hold qualifications under the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Agreement on Tourism Professionals, an attempt to introduce common competency standards On this, the training of the trainers is already well-advanced but I'm not sure when the first qualified members of the workforce are due to appear.

Do not hold your breath!

Very few "hotel occupations" will qualify as "professional " or "skilled" under the the ASEAN agreements

You might be surprised - even bellboy is on the list.

http://www.asean.org/images/2013/economic/handbook%20mra%20tourism_opt.pdf

Thanks for the link.

I note the document speaks of "freedom of movement". There is no ASEAN agreement on FoM , border controls and the requirement for Visas/Work permits will remain intact.

Interesting times ahead and I hope that many will not be disappointed when they discover that ASEAN is not modeled on EU implementation of Fom which has removed border controls and the need for Visas etc for EU citizens moving freely from one country to the next in search of or to take up work.

[tolsti]

The information you have been given is wrong. She does not need a visa or work permit. She can work anywhere in the ASEAN region. It is the same as the EU, just without the single currency.

Total load of borrocks... Makes me wonder what kind of visa (if any) you are working on as a teacher.

[digitalchromakey]

Is there any way that a non-Thai not employed in Thailand (i.e. expat on extension of stay for retirement ) can obtain a work permit to hire a foreign national as domestic help? Can't seem to find anything on that. In reality high percentage of maids etc are Burmese or Khmer. Is there any way to make it legal, for an ordinary householder (not a company)? And one who is themselves a foreigner?

Yes, its called a non immigrant L-A visa an work book ( unlike a work permit which ties you to a specific job the work book allows u to work anywhere in the provenience it is issued,

The process starts at the labor dept with the prospective employer obtaining a Quota.

For say a Burmese worker with a Non immigrant type LA visa, the work permit then obtained is specific to a single employer, which in it's basic form also limits the employee to work in the Amphoe that the employer is registered in, this compared to the Changwat one can work in that is listed in the WP 4 Blue Book.

[digitalchromakey]

Is there any way that a non-Thai not employed in Thailand (i.e. expat on extension of stay for retirement ) can obtain a work permit to hire a foreign national as domestic help? Can't seem to find anything on that. In reality high percentage of maids etc are Burmese or Khmer. Is there any way to make it legal, for an ordinary householder (not a company)? And one who is themselves a foreigner?

Yes, its called a non immigrant L-A visa an work book ( unlike a work permit which ties you to a specific job the work book allows u to work anywhere in the provenience it is issued,

The process starts at the labor dept with the prospective employer obtaining a Quota.

thanks! Any idea of cost?

Easy way to do it to is to use one of the many specialised Burmese employment agencies.

If the prospective maid has a temporary passport with a valid two year non LA entry, then you are looking at around 5,500 THB for the Hospital Card/Check and Work Permit.

Extra charges would be incurred to change employer, if there is an existing Work Permit and for a two year extension of stay if the temporary passport original permission to stay is within a few months of being up.

Not sure what an agency would charge to obtain a quota letter for an individual (sole) employer, plus I'm not sure if the process is open to non Thais.

If the worker has no papers/passport then there is a migrant worker registration process (available in specific phases - apply over a two month period for a 3-12 month validity period).

With this Worker Card process, which costs around 5,000 THB you get a pink credit card sized worker card, but no passport - a full (not temporary) ASEAN valid Burmese passport can then be obtained at a later date for an additional 6,000 THB.

[Sheryl]

2 posts containing insults have been removed. Please keep it civil.

[Sheryl]

Easy way to do it to is to use one of the many specialised Burmese employment agencies.

If the prospective maid has a temporary passport with a valid two year non LA entry, then you are looking at around 5,500 THB for the Hospital Card/Check and Work Permit.

Extra charges would be incurred to change employer, if there is an existing Work Permit and for a two year extension of stay if the temporary passport original permission to stay is within a few months of being up.

Not sure what an agency would charge to obtain a quota letter for an individual (sole) employer, plus I'm not sure if the process is open to non Thais.

If the worker has no papers/passport then there is a migrant worker registration process (available in specific phases - apply over a two month period for a 3-12 month validity period).

With this Worker Card process, which costs around 5,000 THB you get a pink credit card sized worker card, but no passport - a full (not temporary) ASEAN valid Burmese passport can then be obtained at a later date for an additional 6,000 THB.

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

[phuketrichard]

its nearly impossible here in phuket to do it if they already have a regular passport,

Been told at its ONLY set up for those that are here Illegally ( many from Burma) or not have not had a regular passport.

been thru lawyers/"helpers" /immigration and the labor office

If u mange to get it done, please pm me HOW you did it

Edited August 24, 2015 by phuketrichard

[Naam]

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

using an agent is highly advisable Sheryl. it saves you time and hassle and the bottom line is that it might cost less than if you try to do it yourself. getting a quota for more than one is quite difficult but possible. i don't know the exact procedure and i don't care but just pay (what i think) are reasonable fees for three Burmese employees. but to the best of my knowledge the quota has no time limit and when we started nearly ten years ago the quota system did not exist.

note: mileages may vary!

[seesip]

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

using an agent is highly advisable Sheryl. it saves you time and hassle and the bottom line is that it might cost less than if you try to do it yourself. getting a quota for more than one is quite difficult but possible. i don't know the exact procedure and i don't care but just pay (what i think) are reasonable fees for three Burmese employees. but to the best of my knowledge the quota has no time limit and when we started nearly ten years ago the quota system did not exist.

note: mileages may vary!

I've heard that these types of visas are limited to unskilled labor, i.e. factory, landscaping, housekeeping. Is it possible to hire outside of those industries, like for office work for example? Are these workers entitled to the same wages as Thai's meaning minimum wage, OT etc?

[digitalchromakey]

Easy way to do it to is to use one of the many specialised Burmese employment agencies.

If the prospective maid has a temporary passport with a valid two year non LA entry, then you are looking at around 5,500 THB for the Hospital Card/Check and Work Permit.

Extra charges would be incurred to change employer, if there is an existing Work Permit and for a two year extension of stay if the temporary passport original permission to stay is within a few months of being up.

Not sure what an agency would charge to obtain a quota letter for an individual (sole) employer, plus I'm not sure if the process is open to non Thais.

If the worker has no papers/passport then there is a migrant worker registration process (available in specific phases - apply over a two month period for a 3-12 month validity period).

With this Worker Card process, which costs around 5,000 THB you get a pink credit card sized worker card, but no passport - a full (not temporary) ASEAN valid Burmese passport can then be obtained at a later date for an additional 6,000 THB.

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

Quotas are for generic employees, not named individuals. For us, the quota is only valid for one year, we normally estimate our need for employees as higher than required.

The agency will save you a lot of head aches/time and we are not talking about law firm sized charges here, it's a few hundred baht per service supplied.

The medical plus the hospital card has to be done via a dedicated government centre that deals specifically with migrant workers - we pay a fee currently around 2,300 THB all up per worker.

Really not sure your prospective employee could get a two year Non Immigrant Type LA visa in a full passport, as the non LA is normally granted with a temporary passport under the migrant labour registration scheme.

[digitalchromakey]

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

using an agent is highly advisable Sheryl. it saves you time and hassle and the bottom line is that it might cost less than if you try to do it yourself. getting a quota for more than one is quite difficult but possible. i don't know the exact procedure and i don't care but just pay (what i think) are reasonable fees for three Burmese employees. but to the best of my knowledge the quota has no time limit and when we started nearly ten years ago the quota system did not exist.

note: mileages may vary!

I've heard that these types of visas are limited to unskilled labor, i.e. factory, landscaping, housekeeping. Is it possible to hire outside of those industries, like for office work for example? Are these workers entitled to the same wages as Thai's meaning minimum wage, OT etc?

Yes, general Labour.

LA is Labour Approved.

Currently, my understanding is that you need to go down the regular passport/WP route for non general labour employees.

Workers should get > minimum wage/OT/Public Holiday; anyway if you don't do these, they will soon find a new employer that does, then it's bye-bye workers.

[samran]

The worker is Cambodian, not Burmese, and holds a regular Cambodian passport.

Does not sound to me like there is any real reason to need a broker or agency

From other threads I gather cost of the quota + L-A visa will be about 4,000 baht. I already know the hospital cost.

Re the "quota": if likely to want to bring ion a second worker later should I just get a quota for 2 to start with? Or is the "quota" specific to a specific worker? How long is "quota" valid for?

using an agent is highly advisable Sheryl. it saves you time and hassle and the bottom line is that it might cost less than if you try to do it yourself. getting a quota for more than one is quite difficult but possible. i don't know the exact procedure and i don't care but just pay (what i think) are reasonable fees for three Burmese employees. but to the best of my knowledge the quota has no time limit and when we started nearly ten years ago the quota system did not exist.

note: mileages may vary!

I've heard that these types of visas are limited to unskilled labor, i.e. factory, landscaping, housekeeping. Is it possible to hire outside of those industries, like for office work for example? Are these workers entitled to the same wages as Thai's meaning minimum wage, OT etc?

I've been through the process a couple of times myself and the simple answer is yes. You'd tick the box on the work permit form as to what type of work they'd be doing and administrative/office based work was one of those options.

For what it's worth (having done the WP for our maid twice now), I'll be using an agent next time.

[Naam]

For what it's worth (having done the WP for our maid twice now), I'll be using an agent next time.

[Sheryl]

OK so can anyone suggest an Agent for a Cambodian, not Burmese, worker?

[samran]

OK so can anyone suggest an Agent for a Cambodian, not Burmese, worker?

For us, it is the Burmese jungle telegraph.

Suggest from experience, though not using one, when you go to the local labour office to ask for a quota, that out the front amongst all the photocopy people will be agents and you can find one you trust.

[Sheryl]

And what part of this process is so complex as to require an agent?

What I hear of the Thai side of things does not sound that bad. Trip to labor dept, then hospital, then labor again and from there immigration.

I suspect the complexity lies on the other side, country of origin and with obtaining the mini passport referred to.

As noted the worker in question already has a normal passport though expiring next March. So our options are to try to get the L-A visa on a regular passport (no accounts yet of anyone succeeding in that...but only one that tried) or letting the passport lapse and getting this other identity document specific migrant workers. I am hearing from a Cambodian who did it that the latter option runs to 30,000 baht plus. Mostly bribes on the Cambodian side...

[Sheryl]

For provinces near the Cambodian border there is also a system whereby casual laborers can get a small yellow "border pass" booklet that allows them to work in those provinces only (from Poipet it allows for Sakeo, Chantaburi and Prachinburi). Initial cost is only about 1500 baht and then about 100 baht each time it is used. I have availed of this many times to bring in short-term workers. The big drawback is each entry is limited to 7 days inclusive of day of entry and departure. No limit to number of entries but have to keep going back to the border to stamp back in. If one lived right near the border would be OK but from where I am it means 2 full travel days (and associated cost) required for each 5 days of work..inefficient and adds to the cost.

The area I live in is chock full of Cambodian workers, from the 7-11 to the hardware stores and construction sites. Nearly all illegal because the above systems are just too costly to make sense relative to their wages.

[samran]

And what part of this process is so complex as to require an agent?

What I hear of the Thai side of things does not sound that bad. Trip to labor dept, then hospital, then labor again and from there immigration.

I suspect the complexity lies on the other side, country of origin and with obtaining the mini passport referred to.

As noted the worker in question already has a normal passport though expiring next March. So our options are to try to get the L-A visa on a regular passport (no accounts yet of anyone succeeding in that...but only one that tried) or letting the passport lapse and getting this other identity document specific migrant workers. I am hearing from a Cambodian who did it that the latter option runs to 30,000 baht plus. Mostly bribes on the Cambodian side...

Nothing particularly difficult on the Thai side, just that you are schlepping around and waiting in line lots for the relevant bits of paper. Which is why I'm paying for it next time. I know how it is supposed to work for Myanmar citizens.

You'd be well served to go to the labour office anyways, last I was there I saw flow chars in thai as well as the three languages of the migrant workers so you have an expectation of what needs to happen.

Cost wise I paid for our nanny and it was around 5 or 6k in offical fees for the 2 year permit, excluding the trip back to get the temp passport.

My nanny is due for renewal next year and I've been told it will be 10k to do that. Happy to pay as it saves me a day or two of my time.

Sounds like the process is a bit more difficult for the Cambodians but I think if you can crack that but you'll be doing the worker a huge favor. Simply being able to walk the streets without fear is a big deal.

[Sheryl]

Thanks Samran. I will let you know how I get on. Three more quick questions if you don't mind:

1- Is the l-a visa multi entry for the two year period or is it necessary to get a reentry permit to leave and return within the two years?

3- can children of legally registered migrant workers attend Thai government schools?

2 - what is the situation for dependent children, are they covered under the parents visa?

[digitalchromakey]

Thanks Samran. I will let you know how I get on. Three more quick questions if you don't mind:

1- Is the l-a visa multi entry for the two year period or is it necessary to get a reentry permit to leave and return within the two years?

3- can children of legally registered migrant workers attend Thai government schools?

2 - what is the situation for dependent children, are they covered under the parents visa?

1 - Yes, a Re-Entry Permit is required to exit/re-enter Thailand and preserve the two year non LA Permission date.

2 - Doubt it very much.

3 - Do not believe so.

[samran]

Thanks Samran. I will let you know how I get on. Three more quick questions if you don't mind:

1- Is the l-a visa multi entry for the two year period or is it necessary to get a reentry permit to leave and return within the two years?

3- can children of legally registered migrant workers attend Thai government schools?

2 - what is the situation for dependent children, are they covered under the parents visa?

1 I beleive a reentry permit is needed, and they also have to do 90 day reporting

As for the others, I don't know. Our nanny has a daughter who goes to Thai school but pays 14,000 baht per year in fees.

In terms of rights of migrant worker children i simply don't know. Our baby's daufher was born in Thailand and I read somewhere once that they get special dispensation to stay, but once they leave they can't come back. Don't hold me to that though.

[digitalchromakey]

Thanks Samran. I will let you know how I get on. Three more quick questions if you don't mind:

1- Is the l-a visa multi entry for the two year period or is it necessary to get a reentry permit to leave and return within the two years?

3- can children of legally registered migrant workers attend Thai government schools?

2 - what is the situation for dependent children, are they covered under the parents visa?

1 I beleive a reentry permit is needed, and they also have to do 90 day reporting

As for the others, I don't know. Our nanny has a daughter who goes to Thai school but pays 14,000 baht per year in fees.

In terms of rights of migrant worker children i simply don't know. Our baby's daufher was born in Thailand and I read somewhere once that they get special dispensation to stay, but once they leave they can't come back. Don't hold me to that though.

Good point, we have had Burmese workers (Registered) in the past who have got pregnant and given birth here - they had no problems going back to Burma with their baby a few months later.

The Mothers have gone back to Burma with their babies when they are a few months old, then stayed in Burma for a few months before returning without their children to continue work.

In my area, most Burmese workers with kids have them living with their families back in Burma, then send cash home for their support.

You do see the odd school age kid on some of the big sites in my area and sadly they seem to just hang around doing nothing during the day/school hours.

Edited August 26, 2015 by digitalchromakey

[phuketrichard]

there's a big Burmese camp 50 meters up from my house here in Phuket, all employed as construction laborers,

lots of kids ( no idea how they stay) but they are not in school.

sometimes u see them on the work site with their parents.

Note as far as i have seen the L-A is NOT a multi entry visa

I have met lots of Burmese working ( seems most of the gas stations now here employ Burmese) with one an they all say they don't go home but once every 2 years

not sure it means they cant or they dont want to take the chance of losing their jobs

Edited August 26, 2015 by phuketrichard

[phuketrichard]

make it easy for ya, here are the steps

1) Requires an Employer.

2) Employer needs to apply to Labour dept for a quota, this requires demonstrating need (contracts, etc), although I know some individual householders have got a quota to employ a Burmese Maid.

3) Once the Employer has a quota from Labour (letter with a one year validity period stating how many workers can be employed), then the worker needs a Non Immigrant LA Visa stamp (Single Entry - 2 Years) - there are specialist brokers who can arrange these visas.

4) An Initial address registration is required at Immigration (in addition to any TM6 card held).

4) Once the Worker has the Non LA Stamp then a health check needs to be made at a clinic for Burmese Workers (again there are brokers who can arrange this), if all is ok a hospital card will be issued costing 2,500 THB which entles the Migrant holder to 30 Baht Health care (same as for Thai workers).

5) Once the Hospital Card is sorted then the WP can be applied for - it's a sheet of paper rather than a Blue Book - cost around 2.000 THB.

6) The WP is specific to the Amphoe where the WP is based rather than the Province, as is the case with the regular WPs.

7) 90 day address reporting is required at the Migrant Section of Local Thai Immigration.

8) Just before the Non LA Passport Stamp expires then a WP Holder can apply to immigration for a two year extension of permission to stay.

Edited August 26, 2015 by phuketrichard

[digitalchromakey]

there's a big Burmese camp 50 meters up from my house here in Phuket, all employed as construction laborers,

lots of kids ( no idea how they stay) but they are not in school.

sometimes u see them on the work site with their parents.

Note as far as i have seen the L-A is NOT a multi entry visa

I have met lots of Burmese working ( seems most of the gas stations now here employ Burmese) with one an they all say they don't go home but once every 2 years

not sure it means they cant or they dont want to take the chance of losing their jobs

Correct - Non LA is Single Entry, hence the need for a Re-Entry Permit to come and go where the original Permission to Stay date is preserved.

Yes, journeys back home are very rare and may well involve sacrificing one's job, depending of course on the employer.

[Sheryl]

I just got back with a meeting with the local primary school principal.

He states the school will accept the child if the parents have proper documentation for staying in Thailand. The school already has 5 Cambodian children of migrant workers enrolled.

They require however that the family be in the tabian ban of a Thai person who in effect guarantees them. Fortunately I have a neighbor willing to do this. Though I am confused as I had thought aliens cannot be enteted into a blue tabian ban?

No idea if this last bit is an official rule or just something the school came up with on their own. They clearly want a Thai person they can hold responsible for any issues regarding the child.

[Sheryl]

Spoke with immigration on the phone re the passport issue. They do not seem to have any problem with issuing an L-A visa into a regular passport. Remains to be seen if the Labor Dept will accept it as well. Hard to understand the logic for not doing so.

As I understand the process, what is expensive and convoluted is the "nationality verification" process at home country leading to issuance of a "temporary passport" which is designed to address the fact that most migrant workers lack a formal passport.

[Sheryl]

Update: Definitely can get an L-A visa in a normal Cambodian passport, it is not limited to the "temporary passports". Have not only been told this by immigration but also spoken to Cambodians who did it and seen it in their passports.

Though for some unknown reason, the original visa is marked L-A (stamping in for 2 years) and then the subsequent extension of stay for another 2 years is marked "Non L-A", anyone understand that?

I am also told by Cambodians who have the "pink card" (issued based on the "temporary passport" with an L-A visa) that they would soon be switched over to a regular passport i.e. the other was just an interim measure.

It makes sense to me. The whole point is nationality/identity verification so why one earth would a regular passport not be accepted? And as these other things are being referred to as "temporary passports", makes sense that they are just an interim measure to be replaced by a regular passport once issued, i.e. a measure brought into being to deal with the fact that very large numbers of migrant workers were already in the country who lacked passports.

Haven't gone down to Labor Dept yet, will do that Monday but I suspect the biggest problem is apt to be my own lack of a yellow tabian ban.