Thousands of migrants rush past police into Macedonia

[Lite Beer]

Thousands of migrants rush past police into Macedonia
By DUSAN STOJANOVIC

GEVGELIJA, Macedonia (AP) — Thousands of rain-soaked migrants on Saturday rushed past Macedonian riot police who were attempting to block them from entering Macedonia from Greece. Police fired stun grenades and dozens of people were injured in the border clashes.

By the end of the day, every one got across, including several hundred migrants, mostly elderly and children, who had remained on the Greek side of the border. Thousands then boarded trains and buses that took them up north to the border with Serbia from where they will attempt to enter European Union-member Hungary.

The tumult started when police allowed a small group of migrants with young children to cross the frontier, and crowds in the back squeezed the migrants toward the shielded police wall. Many women, at least one pregnant, and children fell to the ground, apparently fainting after squeezing past the cordon.

Then thousands of others, including women with babies and men carrying small children, grabbed their chance to climb over razor wire or run across a field not protected by the fence to enter Macedonia.

Police stun grenades did not to stop the rush, but many fleeing migrants were chased down by policemen and severely kicked or beaten with batons. The elderly, women and children were not spared.

At least 25 injured people were brought to a railway station in the Macedonian town of Gevgelija by fellow migrants. Many children lost contact with their parents in the chaos and desperately called out for "mama, baba!"

It was the second day of clashes between the migrants and baton-wielding police who are attempting to block them from heading toward the European Union.

On Friday, police fired stun grenades and clashed with the migrants, a day after Macedonia's government declared a state of emergency on the frontier to stop the human tide. At least 10 people were injured.

Both Greece and Macedonia have seen an unprecedented wave of migrants this year, most fleeing wars in Syria, Afghanistan or Iraq. More than 160,000 have arrived so far in Greece, mostly crossing in inflatable dinghies from the nearby Turkish coast — an influx that has overwhelmed Greek authorities and the country's small Aegean islands. Some 45,000 crossed through Macedonia over the past two months.

Few, if any, of the migrants want to remain in Greece, which is in the grip of a financial crisis — or in impoverished Macedonia. Most head from Greece to Macedonia where they cram onto trains and head through Serbia and Hungary on their way to more prosperous EU countries such as Germany, the Netherlands or Sweden.

Friday night, police allowed only small groups of families with children to cross the border by walking on railway tracks to the station in Gevgelija, where most take trains to the border with Serbia before heading further north toward EU-member Hungary.

Those who could not cross spent the rainy and chilly night in the open with little food. They massed close to a razor wire separating them from machine-gun toting Macedonian policemen. Some raised their babies above their heads to try to persuade the policemen to let them through.

"These men are heartless," said Yousef, a Syrian refugee who gave only his first name, as he held a little wide-eyed girl with curly hair in his arms and pointed toward the policemen. "They don't care about our tragedy."

A police officer told The Associated Press that the force is only following the government's orders.

"Until we receive a different order, the situation here will remain like this," said the officer, who refused to be named because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

As heavy rain poured, some migrants took off their shirts and booed and shouted insults at the policemen in camouflage fatigues. Others took shelter inside dozens of small tents or under a few trees on a muddy field.

Last week, there were chaotic scenes at the Gevgelija train station involving hundreds of migrants trying to board the trains.

Macedonian police said they started blocking the refugees on the 50-kilometer (30-mile) frontier "for the security of citizens who live in the border areas and for better treatment of the migrants."

On Saturday, Rama Kabul from Syria walked the railway track in the opposite direction from the station pleading with two Macedonian policemen pushing her back with riot shields to let her brother — trapped behind the razor fence on the border — join her.

"They took me out and left him there," Kabul said with tears in her eyes. "I just want to talk to him."

While migrants persisted to reach northern Europe by overland routes, other dramas were playing out in the Mediterranean north of Libya Saturday.

While migrants struggled on land, the Italian coast guard said by early afternoon its was coordinating rescues from four fishing boats, crowded with migrants, and from 14 smaller motorized rubber dinghies.

It was too soon to estimate total numbers. But on several days in past weeks have seen close to 3,000 arrive in a 24-hour period.

___

Frances d'Emilio in Rome contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-23

[NeverSure]

I don't know the answer...

There are lots of pictures HERE. Wait for the page to load and then hover over one of the pictures until it says "gallery". Click and then just keep clicking on any gray/white or blue/white arrow and it just keeps showing more pictures.

[Lissos]

Empathy and Anger, both these things I feel.

In other words, their determination and cunning methods of getting through does not seem so alien to me at all, even as children are blatantly being used as a human battering ram by being shoved up to the front. It scares the kids into terror and the photographers are on hand for their money shots that we see daily.

As I said yesterday in the Slovakia thread, it is the - "Titanic" strategy ("Make space on the lifeboat. I have a child.....or am near one).

Yesterday the guard's compassion to allow some children through descended into a massive breach, which is what we see now. Nor does their aim to head to the best areas in Europe you can if your life was turned upside down and unlikely to ever be restored, seem alien to me.

At the same time, this is an invasion, a swarm, a flood, a tidal wave of people with big big expectations that I don't think much of Europe is in a position to meet and that in itself carries seeds of future trouble, never mind the huge strain upon our nations. They simply could not have a worse time to try and get into Europe and feel welcome, as economies are rock bottom or only just picking up again and frustration about all forms of migration (legal and illegal) is high among locals. It is the duty of state to protect the borders, and I would argue - to put its people's slice of the pie first. Question is, which gets priority of resources? Compassion? Or integrity of borders?

Out of self interest, I know what mine is. Once in Hungary, they can scatter far and wide. I see no control. Or, I see token resistance intending to kick the can north. Macedonian police were probably the hardest that they'll encounter en route because once in the EU there will be far more regulation for border staff.

Macedonians were being criticised by migrants as heartless simply for barring their way. How dare they protect borders, aye? Word has got around somehow that going and resettling where 'you' want is an absolute right for foreigners to demand. I see that as seeds for big trouble.

[bristolgeoff]

it will mean many problems for europe as they crash the borders,including uk.europe can not accept the many thousand trying to reach the uk.just because they think we are a easy touch.they are not wanted in the uk full stop

Edited August 23, 2015 by bristolgeoff

[ezzra]

This is the end of Europe as we know it, soon it will resemble an African or north African country,

with swarms of million of Muslims border runners, not migrants, parasites, looking to leach

on to someone else county's resources..

what amazing is that those Muslims unwelcome masses never want to go to an Islamic country,

only to a non Islamic, well established, rich country, why?

Those people, have ruined Europe, Australia and several other countries around the world,

immediately establishing mosques and priers halls and keep to themselves and never assimilate,

and before you know it, you have a fifth column in your midst...

[simple1]

The whole issue of people fleeing their home countries, for a variety of reasons, is a terrible conundrum for the European decision makers. I've only looked at a few videos and one of the impressions I get is an expectation that European countries will provide entry & a safe future; this has expired. So who is feeding them this expectation in the current situation?

I understand many refugees are attempting to enter Europe via Turkey. I watched a report that claimed currently Turkey alone is hosting 1.7 million refugees and the wait time just for the initial interview for assessing refugee status is now around eight years. Taking into account currently only approx 80k refugees p.a. are being resettled (UNHCR is trying to get an allocation of 100k p.a. from member countries) one can understand the awful challenges facing both host government & the refugees.

Western leaders are now forecasting the current primary conflict zones (Syria and Iraq) will not be pacified for a number of years, which leaves millions of refugees out on a limb unable to return home.

Edited August 23, 2015 by simple1

[Steely Dan]

If you do a bit of research it is clear that there is a global trend towards building walls and fences, to keep people out not in. Where a nation state retains full sovereignty the issue is quite clear cut. How many migrants and from where are you prepared to accept?

The aim of the swarms of migrants aiming for Europe is to enter a Schengen area Country whereupon their transit to a Country of their choosing can progress without any border checks.

Answers? Well let's start with predictions first - the Schengen Agreement will end, huge civil unrest will cause European governments to reclaim full control of their borders from the European Union, perhaps even causing the union to unravel completely. Then the shutters will go up completely to economic migrants.

And to think how liberal left publications lauded the Arab spring and the fall of corrupt dictators - Colonel Gahdaffi even spelled out precisely what would happen, but nobody was listening.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

the Schengen Agreement will end, huge civil unrest will cause European governments to reclaim full control of their borders from the European Union, perhaps even causing the union to unravel completely

<snip>

Amen, brother.

[arjunadawn]

This is the end of Europe as we know it, soon it will resemble an African or north African country,

with swarms of million of Muslims border runners, not migrants, parasites, looking to leach

on to someone else county's resources..

what amazing is that those Muslims unwelcome masses never want to go to an Islamic country,

only to a non Islamic, well established, rich country, why?

Those people, have ruined Europe, Australia and several other countries around the world,

immediately establishing mosques and priers halls and keep to themselves and never assimilate,

and before you know it, you have a fifth column in your midst...

x2

[Usernames]

It will take much, much stronger measures on the part of government to stop this tidal wave of invading peoples. Only when the invaders fear the consequences of their actions will it cease.

[hard124get]

Step One: Stop bombing other countries

[Lissos]

Step One: Stop bombing other countries

On that, I agree, (if) you mean that knocking out strong men rulers to introduce democracy is accepted as being flawed and naive in regions with such complex tribal / sectarian tensions. Too much Sunni and not enough Shia? Ok, put some Shia in power. Sunni go berserk, claim Shia dominate things. More Sunni introduced to balance things out, Shia claim Sunni plot to take over. Shia militants get to work. Never mind all the others such as Kurds and offshoot sects of the aforementioned Sunni / Shia divide. Arabs appear to operate best under strong ruling leaders such as monarchs.

[elgordo38]

This is the end of Europe as we know it, soon it will resemble an African or north African country,

with swarms of million of Muslims border runners, not migrants, parasites, looking to leach

on to someone else county's resources..

what amazing is that those Muslims unwelcome masses never want to go to an Islamic country,

only to a non Islamic, well established, rich country, why?

Those people, have ruined Europe, Australia and several other countries around the world,

immediately establishing mosques and priers halls and keep to themselves and never assimilate,

and before you know it, you have a fifth column in your midst...

If bullets don't do the job to convert a country try a human battering ram. The huddled masses are on the move looking for the promised land sound familiar?. The problem on this side of the globe is they can jump from country to country like locusts. The Americas are lucky they have a blue barrier on each side of their landmass but unfortunately the US border is wide open to the south so enter The Donald saying enforce the law(he is really hitting a nerve here) while his politically correct brethen are saying bend the law. Guess what the Americans no longer want to support all these law breakers/benders. The law is the law period. The only reason the other Republican hopefuls want to bend the law is to get the Hispanic vote. They would surely sell their soul to the devil which is what they are in essence doing. They are all a bunch of shameless panderers be it for votes or money from the Koch brothers.

[godden]

There will be blood running in the streets, thanks to the all wise politicians.

[arjunadawn]

Step One: Stop bombing other countries

Your prescription is a great idea, though unrelated to the current invasions taking place throughout the world. Resources are not significantly changed from some years ago, environmental factors remain static, economies are no more savaged than others and proportional to where they were, say, 10 years ago, the conflict in the Levant is not the primary cause of the masses, etc.

It is a fact of human nature when people are giving something for free they will take more, then demand. Couple this self evident reality with the brilliant observations of Malcolm Gladwell's "Tipping Point" and we can see clearly how fads, mass hysteria, mass movements, contrived outrages, fashion, etc., reach a critical gravity in perception and then become a phenomena of greater magnitude then its parts.

With the social information age and a docile west surrendering its borders, its wealth, its culture, its sovereignty, its bloodlines, and its conscience to lawbreakers and invaders you have incentive== today's (instigated) transfer of wealth by the transfer of populations.

It is no more than this- redistribution by bringing others to the fruit, rather than bringing the fruit to others.

[Baerboxer]

Wakey wakey Europe!

Time to stop this nonsense of illegal economic migrants arriving in masses and expecting handouts. freebies and to impose their culture and beliefs.

No wonder the "right" and national parties are gaining in popularity. At some point, there is going to be a massive backlash from the indigenous Europeans against these illegal migrant locusts and the politicians who did nothing but encourage it.

[smudger1951]

It's a mystery to me why so many muslims want to come to the lands of the infidel when they have such contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

[Linky]

It's a mystery to me why so many muslims want to come to the lands of the infidel when they have such contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

It shouldnt be a mystery.

So many muslims want to come because the huge majority DONT consider us infidels and dont have contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

[klauskunkel]

Few, if any, of the migrants want to remain in Greece, which is in the grip of a financial crisis — or in impoverished Macedonia. Most head from Greece to Macedonia where they cram onto trains and head through Serbia and Hungary on their way to more prosperous EU countries such as Germany, the Netherlands or Sweden.

I have yet to read about migrants trying get into Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, or Bahrain - quite prosperous Muslim countries, but for some reason they don't want to go there, although they all speak Arab...

[messiah58507]

I am surprised why UNHCR is not as strong as it is in european countries. Here in urban set up most of the asylum seekers are living life in limbo. Parents are unable to work, Children are not having proper schooling. They have to wait for 4 to 5 years and they have to beg for each meal. Cannot work if detained will be deported solely have to rely on churches NGOs or donors. Pampering lot of problems but not finding political solution as Europe has already found by giving way to them. Destroying 5 years and the resttle the family in new country is big loss for both. If they are given jobs count the Tax and benefit a family can give to Government. In many aspects its not a win-win situation for both parties. Asylum Seekers/Refugees those who really are deserving loose the chance whereas illegal immigrants got a good luck signal and they enter europe. Future belongs to those who are opportunists.

[arjunadawn]

It's a mystery to me why so many muslims want to come to the lands of the infidel when they have such contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

Well, its a mystery no longer. Follow many or any of these various links of a google search for al-hijra, or reverse hijra and you will see plainly. Still convinced there is a better, or more palatable explanation, find it. I cannot.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hirja+jihda&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=hijra+jihad

(Note: This does not of course mean every single person nor a lever pulling hidden imam orchestrating all of this. This is as burned into the islamic psyche as much as the defeat at the Gates of Vienna stung). The conclusion is mine; the facts are ours.

[Scott]

Someone previously mentioned the UNHCR and I too am wondering why it isn't taking a more proactive role in protecting those fleeing their home countries. I wonder if there is some reason they are not setting up camps in the problem areas and providing protection, assistance.

Many of these people should be considered as displaced people and not necessarily refugees. Once an area has been cleared of fighting, they can return. Perhaps they should be working with the Kurds in Northern Iraq to set up refugee camps. I know they have had refugee camps in the area in the past.

Those coming from Syria may be displaced for a long time and depending on the outcome of the situation, they may be refugees, but it is not feasible to allow this mass exodus to Europe and it is becoming increasingly dangerous for them.

[Lissos]

It shouldnt be a mystery.

So many muslims want to come because the huge majority DONT consider us infidels and dont have contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

On that I generally agree, but here is where you won't agree with me......

All those people are something, but they are not Muslims.

Or to put it another way, Muhammad would disown them outright.

Submitters are contractually obliged to emulate Muhammad.

Millions 'calling' themselves Muslims have simply re-written (by selective omission, for the most part) Islam on their own terms, to fit their individual predispositions, chuckling all the transgressions off as - "I'm such a bad Muslim" as if that would placate Muhammad. No, he would be outraged as what goes on. Now, I have no problem with this "Muslim-lite" thing they've fashioned for themselves. It is far more easy going. I spend about two hours each day with one at this moment in time. Islam is submission to the allegedly divine dictates and emulation of the example of Muhammad though, and getting down on one knee is arguably 'not' submission.

Therefore, I question their use of the self label - "Muslim".

Edited August 23, 2015 by Lissos

[F430murci]

It's a mystery to me why so many muslims want to come to the lands of the infidel when they have such contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

It shouldnt be a mystery.

So many muslims want to come because the huge majority DONT consider us infidels and dont have contempt for our liberal and immoral society.

Labeling our culture or society as "liberal and immoral" reflects contempt. If the vast majority of Muslims think we are "liberal and immoral," then they need to stay home or within their own countries and societies that are not "liberal and immoral" rather than come here to judge us whilst living among us and draining our resources. Simply more reason why our cultures don't mix.

If a Muslim country turned Westerners away because we sux in their view, that would not bother me at all. Their right and their country . . ., but when we talk of such . . . Double standards. Perception is sometimes reality. We will slowly break through this PC barrier non-sense and start viewing things with common sense. Obama and the Muslim nutters of the world are opening a lot of eyes.

Edited August 23, 2015 by F430murci

[Friendly Stranger]

I'm only going to use Greece as an example in my reply, as I find it ironic that many are going to a country that has their own internal issues. How are they going to pay for the new settlers? They're going to start seeing riots, not just against the government, but against the migrants, as the next time the banks close and the locals cannot get their money will the handouts be stopped for them too?

It's a no win situation, as ppl should be helped, but at the expense of the struggling citizens?

In regards to governments, I can see how a right wing party could flourish, as it once seemed laughable to even think they would even be considered, but with a clever platform, I bet many would consider. God forbid, but does Germany 1930's ring a bell.

What is the U.N. doing about this? Guilt trip.

I kind of veered off of the subject, but like somone else had mentioned, where's the Arab alliance in all this, are they not stepping up to help these ppl?

Edited August 23, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[simple1]

I'm only going to use Greece as an example in my reply, as I find it ironic that many are going to a country that has their own internal issues. How are they going to pay for the new settlers? They're going to start seeing riots, not just against the government, but against the migrants, as the next time the banks close and the locals cannot get their money will the handouts be stopped for them too?

It's a no win situation, as ppl should be helped, but at the expense of the struggling citizens?

In regards to governments, I can see how a right wing party could flourish, as it once seemed laughable to even think they would even be considered, but with a clever platform, I bet many would consider. God forbid, but does Germany 1930's ring a bell.

What is the U.N. doing about this? Guilt trip.

I kind of veered off of the subject, but like somone else had mentioned, where's the Arab alliance in all this, are they not stepping up to help these ppl?

Greece is not the ultimate destination, it's used as a stepping stone to try and reach places such as Germany. Based upon the current flow, this year Germany is expecting around 800k to enter & apply for asylum. About a third of asylum applicants in Germany come from the Balkans. Almost all of their applications are denied.

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21661941-wanting-burden-shared-germany-eu-country-which-takes-most-asylum-seekers-straining

Muslim majority countries are hosting huge numbers of refugees, as well as some, with even greater numbers of Internally Displaced Persons due to armed conflict (e.g. Iraq 3.5 million). Some examples of current refugee populations...

Pakistan 1.5 million

Turkey 1.7 million

Jordon 650k (excluding Palestinians)

Iran 1 million

Lebanon 1.2 million

Don't know why people would expect Saudi Arabia & the Gulf States to be preferred destinations, even if they were permitted entry, for those fleeing Islamist violence. However, those countries are spending hundred of millions on supporting refugees in places such as Jordan.

[cookee68]

And the ones that got through said that they wanted to go to the UK, this is now becoming a joke, soon i will be a foreigner in my own country, and why the UK, there are many other big richer countries before the UK, But we all know why

[cookee68]

Trouble for Europe ahead

[Friendly Stranger]

I'm only going to use Greece as an example in my reply, as I find it ironic that many are going to a country that has their own internal issues. How are they going to pay for the new settlers? They're going to start seeing riots, not just against the government, but against the migrants, as the next time the banks close and the locals cannot get their money will the handouts be stopped for them too?

It's a no win situation, as ppl should be helped, but at the expense of the struggling citizens?

In regards to governments, I can see how a right wing party could flourish, as it once seemed laughable to even think they would even be considered, but with a clever platform, I bet many would consider. God forbid, but does Germany 1930's ring a bell.

What is the U.N. doing about this? Guilt trip.

I kind of veered off of the subject, but like somone else had mentioned, where's the Arab alliance in all this, are they not stepping up to help these ppl?

Greece is not the ultimate destination, it's used as a stepping stone to try and reach places such as Germany. Based upon the current flow, this year Germany is expecting around 800k to enter & apply for asylum. About a third of asylum applicants in Germany come from the Balkans. Almost all of their applications are denied.

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21661941-wanting-burden-shared-germany-eu-country-which-takes-most-asylum-seekers-straining

Muslim majority countries are hosting huge numbers of refugees, as well as some, with even greater numbers of Internally Displaced Persons due to armed conflict (e.g. Iraq 3.5 million). Some examples of current refugee populations...

Pakistan 1.5 million

Turkey 1.7 million

Jordon 650k (excluding Palestinians)

Iran 1 million

Lebanon 1.2 million

Don't know why people would expect Saudi Arabia & the Gulf States to be preferred destinations, even if they were permitted entry, for those fleeing Islamist violence. However, those countries are spending hundred of millions on supporting refugees in places such as Jordan.

Thanks for pointing this out, I did not know this.

Cheers.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Few, if any, of the migrants want to remain in Greece, which is in the grip of a financial crisis — or in impoverished Macedonia. Most head through Serbia and Hungary on their way to more prosperous EU countries such as Germany, the Netherlands or Sweden.' So which group do they fall into? Refugees? Or economic migrants?

Edited August 24, 2015 by Jonmarleesco