Can IO's refuse extensions even if everything's correct? What if the rules change?

[craigp]

Hello all,

It seems to be well documented that immigration offices and officers vary enormously around Thailand.

From my own experiences of using Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, one has been heaven and the other one has been hell. (For me personally)

With regards to the marriage/retirement extensions, has there ever been any reports of extensions being refused even if all the paper work and other criteria has been fulfilled?

Could immigration officers refuse extensions at their discretion? Even if all the criteria has been fulfilled correctly?

Has there ever been any reports of extensions being refused during the ‘under consideration’ period?

Or, are the immigration officers obliged to issue an extension if everything that’s requested is in order?

If the criteria changes in the future for retirement/marriage extensions, are those of us who’re already using extensions likely to be able to use the current legislation? (‘Grandfather Rights’ or whatever it’s known as)

Or, would any changes to the current extension system affect everybody when renewing our extensions?

Please share your opinions

[nowretired]

Extensions can be and are refused if the requirements for such extensions are not met.

I have never heard of an application accepted as "under consideration" being refused.

IO's do not refuse extensions based simply on "discretion"

As I am not in possession of a crystal ball I have no idea about what the future might bring.

[ubonjoe]

The only reports I can recall of an extension based upon marriage being denied during the under consideration period I can recall was one for taking the 400k baht out of the bank as soon as the application was done. There was another one where a person was granted a 60 day extension in error after already having one on the same entry and then applied for the one year extension.

The only other reason would be it they discovered a couple were not living together as husband and wife.

In 2008 when they took away the ability to use a wife's income or as part of the 40k baht the new police order allowed a one year of grace period before extensions were denied.

When the financial requirements were raised for retirement extensions a grand father clause was included in the police order.

[nursebob]

hi, living in Buriram province i go to Kapchoeng immigration office. last year I had a marry extension, went to renew, the IO said I earn enough for retirement visa, much easier, he said, so I changed to retirement visa. this year, applied for renewal with letter from UK embassy for same visa, but they now want bank statements as well, also application has to go to BKK for consideration, to add insult to injury, they said they will hake a house call within 7 working days, which they did, then spent 2 hours doing excess paperwork, for what. has anyone else found that immigration are tightening up on us long term expats. is it that they want our money, but not us? I am sure we bring in a lot of money to this country, as many of you would agree.

[SteveB2]

Hopefully this comment is not too off topic - one aspect of visa issuance(and thus extension issuance) at the Immigration office I have personally witnessed is the refusal to process applications where the applicant turned up inappropriately dressed, drunk, or ranting on loadly/angrily about some grievance they have with the system. In one instance the miscreant was thrown out of the office, in another the applicants existing visa was cancelled with the load instructions from the I.O. to 'you leave Thailand now'

What I'm getting at here is that any application for a visa or extension is at the whim of your polite conversation with the immigration officer and your respect for the high office he holds. For the more difficult visa types there is quite often a catch all clause that states that 'the immigration officer can ask for what ever additional information they want to satisfy them that your application is valid' - these additional requirements to satisfy them could get very unreasonable if you somehow annoy them!

So dress smart. Speak politely. Provide all documentation requested with a smile(no matter how many visits it takes) - and your application will progress accordingly.

Edited August 24, 2015 by SteveB2

[tlcwaterfall]

Hopefully this comment is not too off topic - one aspect of visa issuance(and thus extension issuance) at the Immigration office I have personally witnessed is the refusal to process applications where the applicant turned up inappropriately dressed, drunk, or ranting on loadly/angrily about some grievance they have with the system. In one instance the miscreant was thrown out of the office, in another the applicants existing visa was cancelled with the load instructions from the I.O. to 'you leave Thailand now'

What I'm getting at here is that any application for a visa or extension is at the whim of your polite conversation with the immigration officer and your respect for the high office he holds. For the more difficult visa types there is quite often a catch all clause that states that 'the immigration officer can ask for what ever additional information they want to satisfy them that your application is valid' - these additional requirements to satisfy them could get very unreasonable if you somehow annoy them!

So dress smart. Speak politely. Provide all documentation requested with a smile(no matter how many visits it takes) - and your application will progress accordingly.

I would expect that immigration officers need to comply with rules. A decision should not be made as you indicate below.

"What I'm getting at here is that any application for a visa or extension is at the whim of your polite conversation with the immigration officer and your respect for the high office he holds."

[moe666]

never had a problem in CM for retirement extension

[mommysboy]

Obviously if there are grounds to believe an application is in some way fraudulent such as providing false or contrived documents then an application could be refused. Likewise if an applicant behaves in an unruly manner officers decline service.

[hanuman2543]

Two weeks ago I applied for a one year extension for being the father of a Thai child. With my application I handed in all documents they asked for (inc. K.R.11) and additional the decision of the Family Court here in CM to accept me as the father of the child. The woman who delt with the application put an "Under Consideration" stamp in my passport and told me and my Gf that we have to expect a "visit" from the Immigration in the next 30 days and I should come after 30 days in the afternoon to get the approved one-year-extension. Today after 5 PM they called my Gf and told her to come tomorrow with me, the child and the Puyai Baan to the office near the airport. The Family Court decision said very clear that my Gf and I live together like husband and wife for more than 4 years. The Puyai Baan doesn't even know us neither do we know him. They also know, that my Gf has a job and it is sometimes difficult for her to get some free time to spend it with the "Immigration Bueraucracy". Additional they want to fine my Gf 1600 Baht for not telling the Immigration that I stay there (she called them several month ago to ask about this and got the information that in CM they are not enforcing this rule). Maybe she has that phone call recorded and if yes I will play it for them tomorrow. I don't know what to expect tomorrow but for me that smells like "harassment".

I stay together with my Gf at the current adress for the last 3 years and the Immigration knows this from other visas and extensions I had before, so what is it all about?

Edited August 24, 2015 by hanuman2543

[craigp]

This is exactly why I was curious to start this thread.

Some of us have been lucky and had no issues what so ever.

Others experience nightmares even when everything appears to be in order.

I've read some decent reports about Chiang Mai, but for me there were bad. In more ways than one.

Now, I deal with Chiang Rai and they've been fantastic. It's another bonus of living in Chiang rai. I have no issues going there at all.

Chiang mai caused me anxiety and stress, almost made me give up on Thailand altogether at one point.

However, some people have reported fair experiences at Chiang Mai.

[hanuman2543]

That is for me already the 3rd time to get wrong information from them and in the end I had to foot the bill.

I am thinking about complaining at an army center about them but first I will go there tomorrow and listen what they have to say. If they continue to be unreasonable I will cancel my application and go to an embassy and apply for a Non-O, multiple entry.

Edited August 24, 2015 by hanuman2543

[mommysboy]

Two weeks ago I applied for a one year extension for being the father of a Thai child. With my application I handed in all documents they asked for (inc. K.R.11) and additional the decision of the Family Court here in CM to accept me as the father of the child. The woman who delt with the application put an "Under Consideration" stamp in my passport and told me and my Gf that we have to expect a "visit" from the Immigration in the next 30 days and I should come after 30 days in the afternoon to get the approved one-year-extension. Today after 5 PM they called my Gf and told her to come tomorrow with me, the child and the Puyai Baan to the office near the airport. The Family Court decision said very clear that my Gf and I live together like husband and wife for more than 4 years. The Puyai Baan doesn't even know us neither do we know him. They also know, that my Gf has a job and it is sometimes difficult for her to get some free time to spend it with the "Immigration Bueraucracy". Additional they want to fine my Gf 1600 Baht for not telling the Immigration that I stay there (she called them several month ago to ask about this and got the information that in CM they are not enforcing this rule). Maybe she has that phone call recorded and if yes I will play it for them tomorrow. I don't know what to expect tomorrow but for me that smells like "harassment".

I stay together with my Gf at the current adress for the last 3 years and the Immigration knows this from other visas and extensions I had before, so what is it all about?

My guess is it just basic procedure and try to stay calm. You probably live in one of the 4 or 5 regions where tighter rules and checks are being enacted, some might say over-enacted.

The fine for your gf is a separate issue. This is about her allegedly not reporting you as a resident at her address, it is only loosely connected to your application. I know because we (me and my wife) had the same issue.

Now that your application is under consideration it is almost a sure thing your extension will be issued.

[craigp]

Looking through the thread, a member thought IO's can't / don't / won't do anything at their discretion (Or otherwise) and and can't move the goal posts even if the if the correct criteria for an extension is met.

Another member has winessnessed refusals and problems due to the appearance of the applicant(s) and/or their attitude and/or behaviour at the immigration office.

I consider myself to be affable, presentable and my application was genuine, but I still ended up being threatened / bribed during my first home visit for a marriage extension.

The appearance of the IO was shambolic in very rough civilian clothes.

But I paid it. it wasn't a huge amount and I was under pressure.

More importantly, I wanted to stay with my wife and didn't want to jeopardise that.

Luck of the draw I suppose.

[jacko45k]

hi, living in Buriram province i go to Kapchoeng immigration office. last year I had a marry extension, went to renew, the IO said I earn enough for retirement visa, much easier, he said, so I changed to retirement visa. this year, applied for renewal with letter from UK embassy for same visa, but they now want bank statements as well, also application has to go to BKK for consideration, to add insult to injury, they said they will hake a house call within 7 working days, which they did, then spent 2 hours doing excess paperwork, for what. has anyone else found that immigration are tightening up on us long term expats. is it that they want our money, but not us? I am sure we bring in a lot of money to this country, as many of you would agree.

The money we expats bring in probably doesn't compare well to tourist who spend and then go home, I think the banks may well like the 800k deposits sitting there. Likely a grand total in the country.

If you had 800k sitting in your account I am sure your application would have been easier, it sounds like you are using marriage to a Thai and income.

I actually think the Thais are doing foreign retirtees a favour rather than the other way around. We seem to be wearing out our welcome.

[Liquorice]

I wouldn't say an IO can refuse on a 'whim'. Even they are answerable for the decisions they make.

They have to have a just 'reason' to refuse.

It would be interesting to know the specific problems you had with CM.

[falang07]

I also think that there must be a valid reason to refuse an application for extension, it can not just depend on how the immigration officer feels that day. BTW, what are the possible steps to take in case it gets rejected for no obvious reason?

[bkkcanuck8]

I also think that there must be a valid reason to refuse an application for extension, it can not just depend on how the immigration officer feels that day. BTW, what are the possible steps to take in case it gets rejected for no obvious reason?

Immigration officers in every country I have lived - have a wide discretion when it comes to approving applications or not. The very fact that part of the process is based on interviews by someone in immigration and observing your behaviour means that any application is at the discretion of who you are officers that you meet. You really have to approach it like you approach a job interview, and figure out what they are looking for to disqualify you and trying not to give them a reason. Dressing properly, covering tattoos where possible (since senior/older bureaucrats would be of the generation where tattooed people were all undesirables) -- and addressing the officer with the respect the officer expects and providing concise and direct answers to his/her questions -- will all help with making sure you pass "the interview".

You have no right to immigrate, you have no right to work in Thailand, you have no right to retire in Thailand.... and you have no right to visit Thailand.

Edited February 10, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[wilkis333]

will the application during under consideration period be affected if we withdraw the money from the bank?The balance amount has changed but never less than 400k.

[falang07]

I doubt anyone checks the account account again. Never happened to me.

[falang07]

I also think that there must be a valid reason to refuse an application for extension, it can not just depend on how the immigration officer feels that day. BTW, what are the possible steps to take in case it gets rejected for no obvious reason?

Immigration officers in every country I have lived - have a wide discretion when it comes to approving applications or not. The very fact that part of the process is based on interviews by someone in immigration and observing your behaviour means that any application is at the discretion of who you are officers that you meet. You really have to approach it like you approach a job interview, and figure out what they are looking for to disqualify you and trying not to give them a reason. Dressing properly, covering tattoos where possible (since senior/older bureaucrats would be of the generation where tattooed people were all undesirables) -- and addressing the officer with the respect the officer expects and providing concise and direct answers to his/her questions -- will all help with making sure you pass "the interview".

You have no right to immigrate, you have no right to work in Thailand, you have no right to retire in Thailand.... and you have no right to visit Thailand.

Well, I disagree with you on this, we do not live in some medieval ages. If I have a wife and family here, they must have a good reason to refuse it.

[ThaiKneeTim]

I wouldn't say an IO can refuse on a 'whim'. Even they are answerable for the decisions they make.

They have to have a just 'reason' to refuse.

It would be interesting to know the specific problems you had with CM.

There may be reasons which they don't disclose.

If you've ever had a background check when applying for a job, or with voluntary groups you'll know that information about your past is available. Some of the same information is available to foreign governments on an exchange basis and forms part of the decision making process when applying for a visa.

You might get through a tourist visa application but be denied a longer stay, and they are not obliged to tell you. The USA is notoriously choosy about who it allows in, sometimes refusing British citizens in their forties based on a minor infringement as a teenager!

If you piss off an Immigration Official, and they can find a reason, they can refuse your application..