Buying a new TV

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So now that I delved into all that TV tech stuff re UHD, HDR and streaming as it relates to those standards, it takes me back to the original basic question I asked above:

"I'm kind of scared that I'll plunk down 15 or 20K for a new UHD TV, take it home and connect it to True cable or my video streams from the U.S. that are already constrained by available international bandwidth/speeds, and the video on screen will look crappy.

So, anyone [else] who's bought a 40+ inch UHD model care to comment on how their video looks when hooked up to Thai digital OTA, Thai cable or internet streaming sources?"

[rawhod]

Firstly, I can't comment on the picture quality of a UHD TV set...

But what I can comment on is the picture quality of a Samsung 55" HD Smart TV which we bought about 12 months ago.

I subscribe to "ILIke HD", so most of my viewing is internet streamed TV.

I tend to watch with aspect ratio that I get without stretching to full screen. It's about equivalent to watching a 38" size screen within the 55" screen, if you see what I mean. I do this because some of the programmes I watch are often SD (480) rather than HD (720), and if stretched, look crap.

I have tried stretching HD (720) programmes to full screen, but the picture still leaves a lot to be desired and no where near the quality I got in the UK six years ago from Sky Satellite HD programmes.

My wife watches Thai Digital Terrestrial TV. The programmes in HD have excellent picture quality (not that my wife is concerned with the picture quality)

The other weekend, I was watching the Premiership football, Leicester I think. I compared the iLikeHD channels CTH Arena and Sky Sports. Both had reasonable pictures quality, but not good enough to go to full screen 55".

I then found that PPTV were carrying the same match on their Thai Digital Terrestrial channel...and the picture quality at full screen was far and away superior to the iLikeHD picture at full screen.

So...what I am trying to say is that IMHO the Thai Digital Terrestrial picture quality is pretty good...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So...what I am trying to say is that IMHO the Thai Digital Terrestrial picture quality is pretty good...

Thanks for that... I was indeed asking about how UHD TVs do in terms of displaying THREE different content sources.

1. streaming video over the Internet (Netflix, etc.)

2. Thai cable services like TrueVisions

3. Thai OTA digital TV.

So your answer covers at least one of those three. It's good to hear that at least UHD TVs and the Thai digital OTA play well together.

[Lampang2]

Don't buy a TV unless you've seen it playing HD content alongside other TVs.

I wouldn't bother with Smart TV nonsense, you're better buying a decent Android box and using that. The "non-Smart" TVs are cheaper.

And the way things are going, the more HDMI and USB ports the better.

Smart tv nonsense rules.

My Samsung plays netflix and HBO box less and perfectly.

[IMHO]

So now that I delved into all that TV tech stuff re UHD, HDR and streaming as it relates to those standards, it takes me back to the original basic question I asked above:

"I'm kind of scared that I'll plunk down 15 or 20K for a new UHD TV, take it home and connect it to True cable or my video streams from the U.S. that are already constrained by available international bandwidth/speeds, and the video on screen will look crappy.

So, anyone [else] who's bought a 40+ inch UHD model care to comment on how their video looks when hooked up to Thai digital OTA, Thai cable or internet streaming sources?"

I don't think you need to be too worried... HDR and other features like high bit depth color are destined to remain features of higher-end TV's I expect - and your budget seems to be more in the lower end.

As for PQ - at 40" in size, 720P can still look OK if you're seated a few meters away. Sources like Truevisions vary between 480P SD (which looks even worse with old content) all the way up to 1080i - so varies from awful to quite good. Same goes for digital OTA - what you experience is less about the transmission capabilities, and much more about the content being played. Ads will usually/often look better than program material

When it comes to streaming, Netflix has clearly superior PQ (and SQ) to anything else I've seen. It's comparable to blu-ray for 1080P content, and even better again (though I suspect not as good as blu-ray UHD) in 4K. Other services tend to look more like Youtube's 1080P compression - clearly a step down from Netflix/blu-ray, but still very decent.

[colinchaffers]

As always, the program content shot in 4K is lagging behind the availabiity of the Tvs, and in fact True only offer 720HD in Thailand, so the Tv oulined will fullfill the basic needs very well. The 120Hz is the refesh rate of the screen the higher is meant to be the better (to redcue flicker), but many expert claim this is only important when your gaming, in other others this is just marketing speak. There is so much choice available with picture quality being very simarlar, so I would suggest you decide what you want to view on it and then check it out in the stores. By the way I was a broadcast engineer with Sony in the UK, when HD was introduced.

[IMHO]

As always, the program content shot in 4K is lagging behind the availabiity of the Tvs, and in fact True only offer 720HD in Thailand, so the Tv oulined will fullfill the basic needs very well. The 120Hz is the refesh rate of the screen the higher is meant to be the better (to redcue flicker), but many expert claim this is only important when your gaming, in other others this is just marketing speak. There is so much choice available with picture quality being very simarlar, so I would suggest you decide what you want to view on it and then check it out in the stores. By the way I was a broadcast engineer with Sony in the UK, when HD was introduced.

As already noted, Truevisions does actually support up to 1080i (e.g. Fox Sports 1, several of the western movie channels etc). But some of their "HD" channels are indeed only 720P (RTL/CBS for example).

There is plenty of 4K content on Netflix and Amazon Prime - times have changed / are changing fast. Once live sport is broadcast/streamed in 4K, my resolution snobbiness will be finally satisfied

As for 120Hz, I too am not a believer, because all it really enables is motion interpolation that gives everything the "soap opera effect" - and therefore is the very first feature I disable on all my displays. A refresh rate that's cleanly divisible by 24, 25 and 30 - now that would make actual sense because then you would never get frame skip/judder

[colinchaffers]

Technology is always changing but with every change there is less bang for your buck, 4K will remain a minority broadcast system for a long time, HD will remain the standard for a good while, if you invest into a 4K Tv it will be obsolete before its becomes mainstream broadcast medium.

There are factors to be considered with the equipment that converts US 60hz HD to 50hz, these cause vertical hopping and the like, it's not just the interpolation of the scan.

The Tv as outlined should provide high quality results for its life it at a reasonable cost.

[colinchaffers]

This is interesting there is one 4K OB van in Europe and BT will launch a UDTV sports channel, it's a start

http://www.timeline.tv/2015/06/25/timeline-launches-europes-first-purpose-built-uhd-4k-outside-broadcast/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re streaming of western content in any of these newer formats, the problem that I'm seeing is the UHD and HDR streams as currently delivered are demanding 25 Mbps or better of steady stream. And while that MIGHT be possible if the content is CDN'd inside Thailand, it surely is NOT possible right now or for the foreseeable future, at least for any reasonably priced consumer Internet service, for streamed content making its way from the U.S. or Europe to Thailand.

That's why I'm leaning toward just getting a straight 1080P HD TV, and make due with that (with a TV format that reasonably matches what's possible to stream into Thailand right now) and then wait for the Internet/streaming formats/technology to catch up here in Thailand to the greater things that are possible with the current TV technology.

I think I read in the news the other day, re the UHD and HDR TV emergence, that something like only 20+% of U.S. households have fast enough Internet connections right now to support the 25 Mbps streams. So even in the U.S., the disparity between the TV quality level and the Internet speed levels that most people have remains a limiting factor.

[IMHO]

Technology is always changing but with every change there is less bang for your buck, 4K will remain a minority broadcast system for a long time, HD will remain the standard for a good while, if you invest into a 4K Tv it will be obsolete before its becomes mainstream broadcast medium.

There are factors to be considered with the equipment that converts US 60hz HD to 50hz, these cause vertical hopping and the like, it's not just the interpolation of the scan.

The Tv as outlined should provide high quality results for its life it at a reasonable cost.

The other thing that's changing fast is the definition of "Mainstream content providers"

I expect that most people who have started using streaming video and music services are like me, and don't watch/listen to the traditional broadcasters very often anymore.

From what I can see, most of not all new content being produced is being done so in 4K. Live sports is the final hurdle to cross, which I will happily take a stream for.

[IMHO]

Re streaming of western content in any of these newer formats, the problem that I'm seeing is the UHD and HDR streams as currently delivered are demanding 25 Mbps or better of steady stream. And while that MIGHT be possible if the content is CDN'd inside Thailand, it surely is NOT possible right now or for the foreseeable future, at least for any reasonably priced consumer Internet service, for streamed content making its way from the U.S. or Europe to Thailand.

That's why I'm leaning toward just getting a straight 1080P HD TV, and make due with that (with a TV format that reasonably matches what's possible to stream into Thailand right now) and then wait for the Internet/streaming formats/technology to catch up here in Thailand to the greater things that are possible with the current TV technology.

I think I read in the news the other day, re the UHD and HDR TV emergence, that something like only 20+% of U.S. households have fast enough Internet connections right now to support the 25 Mbps streams. So even in the U.S., the disparity between the TV quality level and the Internet speed levels that most people have remains a limiting factor.

The 25mbps is peak bandwidth - according to my router, 4K streams actually use an average of around 15mbps - which is double the average of a 1080P stream with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. In any case, yes, if you want 4K you'll want a decent connection. My 30mbps TOT plan handles it well, so long as the kids aren't also watching Netflix or YT at the same time

We are watching 4K every evening. Perhaps you should try to find a better ISP/Plan before compromising your TV purchase?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The 25mbps is peak bandwidth - according to my router, 4K streams actually use an average of around 15mbps - which is double the average of a 1080P stream with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. In any case, yes, if you want 4K you'll want a decent connection. My 30mbps TOT plan handles it well, so long as the kids aren't also watching Netflix or YT at the same time

I presume you're talking about some content streamed from inside Thailand, like Thailand Netflix, or something else where the content is CDN'd locally.

I don't know of any TOT or other service that's going to deliver 15-25 Mbps for content outside Thailand.

[IMHO]

The 25mbps is peak bandwidth - according to my router, 4K streams actually use an average of around 15mbps - which is double the average of a 1080P stream with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. In any case, yes, if you want 4K you'll want a decent connection. My 30mbps TOT plan handles it well, so long as the kids aren't also watching Netflix or YT at the same time

I presume you're talking about some content streamed from inside Thailand, like Thailand Netflix, or something else where the content is CDN'd locally.

I don't know of any TOT or other service that's going to deliver 15-25 Mbps for content outside Thailand.

From what I can tell, it's coming from Singapore. Works fine. Like I say, we are watching 4K content every evening.

I'm pretty sure you'll find the 4K catalog in Thailand is pretty similar to other countries - most are new series/movies that Netflix licensed or produced from initial release.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So you're talking about streaming UHD/4K via a Netflix Thailand subscription??? There is more to the streaming video world than just Netflix, right...

FWIW, I was looking and Amazon has a useful webpage explaining where they're at on UHK/4K and HDR video streaming and device compatibility.

A ways down the page, they have a list of various TVs that they're reporting as UHD/4K compatible. Most of them are 55 inches or larger in screens. But a couple are in the 40+ inch range. Would be a useful guide for any Thailand TV shopping, since I think the basic model references stay pretty much the same country to country.

http://www.amazon.com/4K-UHD-TV-Resource-Guide/b?ie=UTF8&node=10195182011

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8256745011

My wife's friend, who is an LG sales manager here in BKK, told her the other day that LG will have a new lineup of UDH/HDR TVs hitting the store shelves in the next month or so. The 2016 models, I'm guessing...

[IMHO]

So you're talking about streaming UHD/4K via a Netflix Thailand subscription??? There is more to the streaming video world than just Netflix, right...

FWIW, I was looking and Amazon has a useful webpage explaining where they're at on UHK/4K and HDR video streaming and device compatibility.

A ways down the page, they have a list of various TVs that they're reporting as UHD/4K compatible. Most of them are 55 inches or larger in screens. But a couple are in the 40+ inch range. Would be a useful guide for any Thailand TV shopping, since I think the basic model references stay pretty much the same country to country.

http://www.amazon.com/4K-UHD-TV-Resource-Guide/b?ie=UTF8&node=10195182011

http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8256745011

My wife's friend, who is an LG sales manager here in BKK, told her the other day that LG will have a new lineup of UDH/HDR TVs hitting the store shelves in the next month or so. The 2016 models, I'm guessing...

I haven't bothered with Amazon prime yet - I can see the content they have on offer, and none of it's enough to get me over the line. I might think about it differently if I actually got the shipping and other benefits Prime members in USA and UK get though

So yep, my 4K is 99% Netflix, 1% non-commercial content on YT. Both work fine, but YT looks nowhere near as good.

As for TV's - the only requirements for Netflix in 4K are HDCP 2.2 and HEVC support. All of the 2015+ LG 4K models can stream Netflix in 4K using the built-in app.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Stopped by PowerBuy at CentralWorld on the way home tonight, and continued the TV shopping.

I was asking the TV staff guy on hand about the various lengths of warranties for the different TV manufacturers. So, I'll mention his answer below, with the caveats that sometimes these guys give anything but a clear answer, and sometimes they answer when in fact they have no idea what they're talking about.

Among the different manufacturers, he maintained that only Panasonic had a flat 3-year warranty across all their models (2 years for the video panel and the full 3 years for everything else), and that some of the higher end TCL models they had also offered 3-warranty.

When I asked about Samsung, LG and Toshiba, he maintained that all their TVs only came with flat 1 year warranties. And I know that's correct for LG, because my wife's friend who works for LG confirmed that as well.

[Bantex]

I bought a Sony Bravia 48" (KDL-48W705C) in the UK. The set came with a 5 year warranty. Not 4K but there's only limited 4K coverage anywhere at present. The set has built in wifi capabilities and connects seamlessly to my router. The remote has a dedicated "Netflix" button. The built in speakers are OK but it's best to connect a set like this to an external sound bar/box. My iPad and iPhone easily connect to the tv via wifi to view content, photos, movies and music.

Remember that the picture quality you'll get from the TV will only be as good as the quality of your inputs.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't think you can necessarily assume that the TV warranties offered in the U.K. are always the same as those offered in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I haven't bothered with Amazon prime yet - I can see the content they have on offer, and none of it's enough to get me over the line. I might think about it differently if I actually got the shipping and other benefits Prime members in USA and UK get though

I didn't subscribe to Amazon Prime in order to get their video or music streaming services.

I subscribed to Amazon Prime years ago, before their video or music streaming services even existed, because Amazon was my main online shopping source and in order to get the free shipping that comes with Prime.

That said, Amazon has been pretty forward leaning in terms of getting UHD and HDR content into their video streaming library, with more to come in the future.

The question with Amazon video streaming is though, since they don't have a local presence in Thailand as yet unlike Netflix, where is the origin source for their streamed video for someone here, and what kind of streaming quality is going to be possible with them.

I was noodling around in the afternoon with Amazon Prime video, and was able to stream HD content of theirs via my new Fire TV box onto a 720P TV, with the streaming bit rate running around 5 Mbps. That's with my True Online 30 Mbps cable connection and a VPN router. I'll have to see tonight, whether that's equally possible in local prime time when the local Internet pipes are more clogged up.

[Bantex]

I don't think you can necessarily assume that the TV warranties offered in the U.K. are always the same as those offered in Thailand.

No one is assuming that warranties are the same in different countries. I was pointing out the confidence that Sony have in their product in offering lengthy warranties.

[IMHO]

The bandwidth you'd need to stream 4K is probably too much to ask of a VPN service.

I've read your posts elsewhere and understand you're adverse to paying Netflix 420 Baht/month, so I guess your only hope is that Amazon release a stripped down video-only offering for the rest of the world sometime soon, that's accessible using your existing Prime membership.

Note that Netfix Thailand's library has probably grown since you first tried it - at least double what there was back in January, and TH has a few titles the US doesn't get as well (Black Sails for example, which in the US is only available through Starz, and a bunch of BBC productions).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The bandwidth you'd need to stream 4K is probably too much to ask of a VPN service.

I've read your posts elsewhere and understand you're adverse to paying Netflix 420 Baht/month, so I guess your only hope is that Amazon release a stripped down video-only offering for the rest of the world sometime soon, that's accessible using your existing Prime membership.

Re Netflix, no, that's not correct at all. In fact, I don't think I've ever commented/complained about the price of Netflix.

Instead/in fact, I gave up my Netflix U.S. subscription a year or two ago because I was getting bored with their offerings, saw too much old low-quality content, and wasn't really interested in their Netflix originals offerings. Meanwhile, Amazon Prime Instant video was getting better and better, and was something I wasn't having to pay extra for anyway. Had nothing to do with Netflix's pricing whatsoever.

As for Netflix Thailand, I've never tried or used it, because, at least when it started, it was a considerably stripped down/hobbled version of the U.S. service in terms of content. But even if it wasn't, I still wouldn't be especially interested in subscribing, regardless of the local Thailand service pricing.

But as for the overall issue, I'm more interested in the actual content itself than I am in the quality I can screen it at. So, I'm going to subscribe to SlingTV, Sony Playstation Vue, NFL Gamepass, etc etc, and be fine with watching all of them in regular HD formats that my current bandwidth can handle -- until and unless those various providers start offering higher quality streams and the bandwidth capacity here allows me to decently receive those.

So it's within that context that I'm shopping for a TV. Even if I bought a UHD/HDR TV, which I still may do/haven't decided on that yet, virtually all of what I'd actually watch and want to be watching with it -- right now -- is just coming across in regular HD format at best. Of course, that probably will change at some point in the future, thus the notion of getting a TV that will be able to handle that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, a bit of an update. I spent a good part of the past week hard researching TV stuff, the different technologies, the different sizes, the different brands, etc.

And, in the end, I opted to buy a relatively low-cost 43-inch, full HD (1920x1080) TCL smart TV for about 13,000b -- and opting not to pay more for a very nice Samsung 40 inch UHD TV I could have had for about 21,000b.

There were two deciding factors for me to go lower budget now:

--1. There are no reasonably priced UHD-HDR TVs on the Thai market right now (note I said UHD AND HDR) AFAIK, but I expect there will be by next year. Samsung, in the U.S. right now, is selling a 40 inch UHD-HDR TV on Amazon for just about $600. But that 2016 model isn't available in Thailand right now, though Samsung customer service in Thailand said their 2016 models should begin arriving in local stores in a month or so. If I'm going to go UHD, from everything I understand about the technology right now, I'd want to the TV to be HDR compliant as well. And unfortunately, that wasn't going to happen for a reasonable price with the current models in the stores right now.

--2. Because of my original concern about how SD and even lower end HD streaming content, as well as my SD Thai cable, would look on a UHD TV, I took a couple USB sticks filled with SD and lower quality HD video files on my computer to the TV stores when I was shopping, and the TV store staff were fine to have me plug in my USB sticks and test play the files. Frankly, while they look ok/fine on my current 32 inch, 720p TV at home, they looked really bad on the 40 inch Samsung UHD TV that I really liked and almost bought (UA40J6400) for 21K.

So if #1 was the only issue, I might have waited a month or two and seen what the 2016 models in Thailand bring into the stores and at what prices. But unfortunately, #2 was an equal concern, and that's one that's not likely to be resolved or improved in such a short timeframe.

So basically, I'm going to give it a year or two and see if HDR technology matures and becomes affordably available here, and also hope that one way or another I can upgrade/improve the international streaming bandwidth I'm currently getting at home in order to reasonably feed a future UHD-HDR larger screen TV, because, among other reasons, I don't expect to be relying on Netflix Thailand for my video content. Not to mention, hoping that the various Thai cable providers will upgrade the quality of their signals to better support UHD.

[colinchaffers]

Good conclusion.....

[ronz28]

I have had most HDMI ports go bad on LG HDTV and Blue-ray player apparently from weak solder on SMT boards where the HDMI ports reside. Several videos explain the boards should be removed & cooked in a toaster oven for 10 minutes at about 300 degrees F to reflow the solder. Have not tried it yet but won't buy another LG product unless their manufacturing techniques improve. Our Samsung, Sony and Panasonic Smart HDTVs work perfectly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FWIW, I read a lot of English-language TV electronics site reviews in the past week focusing on UHD TVs... And at least based on those readings, I came away with the impression that LG at the very top end/high-end of the market makes some of the best (and very expensive) TVs in the world.

But, equally so, at the routine consumer grade product, a lot of the reviews of that level of their TVs were mediocre at best.

For consumer grade UHD TVs, Samsung seemed to get the consistently best reviews. Their units, along with Vizio in the U.S. (but not here), seemed to dominate the reviews of the best/affordable UHD TVs.

When I was out in the Thai stores this past week, it seemed that Samsung and LG models commanded the most units on display and display space, with Toshiba, Panasonic next, and TCL trailing behind. Saw a few Sharps as well.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Good conclusion.....

I think it depends on what the TV viewer is using as their source video to watch.

Another poster here says he spends most of his viewing with HD and UHD files on Netflix Thailand. Others download torrents of videos to watch at home in high def. For them, I can see where a UHD TV makes sense right now.

For me, 99% of my viewing is streamed video from various sources/providers originating in the U.S., and having to make its way over international internet connections into Thailand's constrained ISP market. When it comes to UHD video in that context, right now, it's like trying to squeeze an elephant thru a soda straw.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, one of the things that I found complicated my in-store TV shopping was that no one seemed to have any real content available to show on the TVs on the shelves.

I did most of my in-store shopping at HomePro, PowerBuy and Big C. And in each case, in talking to their TV staffs, it seemed few or none of their TVs were actually connected to 1] Thai OTA digital channels, 2] any Thai cable system, or 3] the internet for streaming video.

For the most part, the only thing you could actually view on the various TVs were pre-recorded videos (presumably provided by the manufacturers) that were fed to the various TVs via cables from media boxes in the matching video format to the TV (such as HD or UHD). Made it pretty much impossible to view real-world content (other than the USB video files I brought along myself to plug in and play).

[colinchaffers]

UHD is a pioneering technology at the moment, we need these technologies to be supported so that they eventually become mainstream with access to the wider audiences.

Key to investing is the content you want to watch available? Do you have the correct level of network speed (which is reliable) and the additional cash to buy the TV, if these are yes, then it's the right decision.

Future proofing by buying a UHD TV may not give you want you want.

The experience of the OP in the last post where he could assess the Tv because the program content was not available says it all.