TM30, Yellow House Book, or both?

[connda]

I hate to cross post, but it was brought up in a topic about the customer service at CM Immigration and the fact I/Os are 'inquiring' from some individuals coming in for 90 as to why they do not have a TM30 on file, which is not a form that we as immigration customers are require to file.

But my actual question is, the topic came up that my wife should have filled out a TM30 because I reside in her house. However, I've had a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book) since I quit my job in Korat and moved here over three years ago at which time I did my first extension based on marriage (not working anymore). So, even with a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book), is my wife require to fill out a TM30 on me and submit it to Thai Immigration.

If so, what's the process?

[elviajero]

"So, even with a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book), is my wife require to fill out a TM30 on me and submit it to Thai Immigration.

If so, what's the process?"

Yes your wife should fill out the TM30.

Submit it with a copy of her ID and House Book. Anyone can hand it in.

[paulchiangmai]

"So, even with a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book), is my wife require to fill out a TM30 on me and submit it to Thai Immigration.

If so, what's the process?"

Yes your wife should fill out the TM30.

Submit it with a copy of her ID and House Book. Anyone can hand it in.

Is this done one time only or does it have to be done more often? Thanks for any replies.

[jacksam]

I downloaded form and posted it off. I live with gf in apartment she was previously in by herself. Both our names are on the lease. The condo complex is owned by company. No farang there and had not done a TM30.

There was a TV member posting little while back that when he went to immigration for extension he got hit up with a fine. Some experienced members were posting he was not the one responsible to lodge form.

Bottom line is he paid the fine.

Send one in by mail

[elviajero]

"So, even with a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book), is my wife require to fill out a TM30 on me and submit it to Thai Immigration.

If so, what's the process?"

Yes your wife should fill out the TM30.

Submit it with a copy of her ID and House Book. Anyone can hand it in.

Is this done one time only or does it have to be done more often? Thanks for any replies.

Technically the Owner or House-Master of the place a foreigner stays at for more than 24 hours should submit a TM30 to immigration.

If the foreigner stays at the same address it only needs to be done once unless they leave the country. Even if they return to the same address the Owner/House-Master is technically supposed to resubmit a TM30.

[elviajero]

I downloaded form and posted it off.

When you did this by post did they send back a notification receipt?

Did you send a stamped addressed return envelope with the TM30?

[jacksam]

I downloaded form and posted it off.

When you did this by post did they send back a notification receipt?

Did you send a stamped addressed return envelope with the TM30?

It was not mentioned that I should enclose return envelop. Just stated send it registered mail.

I sort of assumed the info would be recorded. I did because I am going for first non imm o extension in about a month. Looks like I messed up AGAIN

[elviajero]

I downloaded form and posted it off.

When you did this by post did they send back a notification receipt?

Did you send a stamped addressed return envelope with the TM30?

It was not mentioned that I should enclose return envelop. Just stated send it registered mail.

I sort of assumed the info would be recorded. I did because I am going for first non imm o extension in about a month. Looks like I messed up AGAIN

You followed the instructions correctly so I don't think you messed up.

I was just interested to know if they sent back a receipt because that's the only way to know for sure that they processed it. I think the only way they would have sent a receipt was with a SAE.

[jacksam]

Thanks elviajero. The whole "proving where you reside" is not so simple for some folk applying for extensions based on retirement. Have read many threads with questions like.."my landlord won't give me photocopy of his ID" .....things like that. In my case its a company owned condo. Yes has a manager.

Anyway will trot along to bkk imm with lease map etc and take tgf along. See how we go.

[Maestro]

Technically the Owner or House-Master of the place a foreigner stays at for more than 24 hours should submit a TM30 to immigration.

...

Legally, section 4 of the Immigration Act defines House-Master as the chief possessor of a residence. "Owner" is one of several capacities in which a person can be chief possessor. When an owner rents his property out, he remains the owner but is no longer the chief possessor of the residence; the tenant now is the chief possessor.

This is the reason why some immigration officers are expecting the tenant to submit the form TM.30. The lease agreement is evidence that you are the chief possessor.

[connda]

Technically the Owner or House-Master of the place a foreigner stays at for more than 24 hours should submit a TM30 to immigration.

...

Legally, section 4 of the Immigration Act defines House-Master as the chief possessor of a residence. "Owner" is one of several capacities in which a person can be chief possessor. When an owner rents his property out, he remains the owner but is no longer the chief possessor of the residence; the tenant now is the chief possessor.

This is the reason why some immigration officers are expecting the tenant to submit the form TM.30. The lease agreement is evidence that you are the chief possessor.

I don't know if that makes me want to laugh or cry. I've got it: Catch-22.

[Maestro]

No, this should be easy. Simply submit the TM.30 in your name.

1. On page 1, fill in your name and address, sign the form, and under your signature underline, encircle or mark with a highlighter the word POSSESSOR.
2. On page 2, the list of aliens residing at your residence, fill in the details from your passport.

Other members have done this successfully when requested by the immigration office. Bring along your yellow House Registration Book which lists you as the house master (เจ้าบ้าน) of the residence.

tm30.pdf

Immigration Act house master tenant.pdf

[elviajero]

@ Maestro.

Are all foreigners listed as house-master in the yellow house book?

[Maestro]

No, only the first person entered in the book. Other foreigners staying in the same house or apartment are not listed as house master.

[MESmith]

My wife recently got 1600 bt fine at Chiang Mai immigration for late tm30 report!!

[elviajero]

My wife recently got 1600 bt fine at Chiang Mai immigration for late tm30 report!!

That sucks! I think thats the biggest fine reported yet. So far the standard has been 800 baht.

[ThaiPauly]

Blimey, I had never heard of a TM 30 until today,, seems they are pushing as of 1st November from what I have read elsewhere

[fang37]

As you do not live in your residence in Korat, I understand that you must surrender your Yellow Book @ the Korat Amphur Office.

[Caspersfriend]

As many others have done I paid 100% of the purchase price of some land on which I had a house built. In accordance with the law on ownership this land is registered n the name of a Thai. Said person also had to obtain a blue book and their name is there as the head of the house.

I have been advised by a Thai barrister that a foreigner can indeed own a house they have built on land even though they aren't registered as the owner of that land; even that barrister could not direct me to anywhere 'official' that this could be verified. The building permit is in my name, the electricity supply is in my name and I also have a yellow book for that house.

As with so many laws/rules/regulations here the situation is murky, and that's before those who sit behind counters and desks apply their own interpretation!

Am I a house owner - house master - house possessor - as far as the TM30 obligation is concerned? Or when living in the house I paid for and with a yellow book in my name [where I am obliged to advise of any change of address] and with a retirement extension and submitting 90-day reports [where I am also obliged to advise any change of address] do I need to be reported as living in my own house?

I suggest that there are many of us in this position and would really appreciate comments only from those who have specific knowledge.

[Maestro]

Page 2 of the Yellow Book tells you if you are the house master. See here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/851884-TM30,-Yellow-House-Book,-or-both?#entry9796671

[NE1]

"So, even with a Foreign Tabian Baan (Yellow House Book), is my wife require to fill out a TM30 on me and submit it to Thai Immigration.

If so, what's the process?"

Yes your wife should fill out the TM30.

Submit it with a copy of her ID and House Book. Anyone can hand it in.

I have just been to renew my retirement extension yesterday at Nakhon Pathom .

We filled all the paperwork in at home TM7 and TM 30 . Which has to be submitted every year. We photo-copied my wife's Blue Book , her ID Card and she signed the bottom of each photocopy.

On submitting the said documents , they made her sign the same photo copies again in front of the immigration officer , to prove it was her signature .

I took my Yellow Book , but they were not interested in it.

[Maestro]

...

I have been advised by a Thai barrister that a foreigner can indeed own a house they have built on land even though they aren't registered as the owner of that land; even that barrister could not direct me to anywhere 'official' that this could be verified. The building permit is in my name, the electricity supply is in my name and I also have a yellow book for that house.

...

What the law does not forbid, is allowed. Therefore, not verification that a foreigner is allowed to own a house must be sought, but verification that the foreigner is not forbidden to buy and own a house.

It is the Land Code Act that prohibits land ownership by foreigners. I have not read it in detail, but I have seen it mentioned on Thaivisa that foreigners are allowed to own a house, and there is this legal opinion on the web:

Foreign house ownership separate from the land

Ownership of a house in Thailand can be transferred separate from the land it stands on. Land and house could have different owners and in a long term lease construction it strongly advised to follow the correct procedure to obtain legal ownership of the house. Transfer of a structure separate from the land must be in writing and registered with the competent authority (i.e. the Land Department's branch or provincial office). The right to own a building upon another man's land always relates to the term an right to use and possess the land (i.e the term of the land lease and/ or the right of superficies term).

In your case, you did not buy the house but had it built in your own name, at your own expense. Therefore, Section 558 of the Civil and Commercial Code applies and the legal ownership of the house depends on the contractual arrangement you have with the land owner.

Section 558. The hirer may not make alterations in, or addition to, the property hired without the permission of the lessor. If he does so without such permission, he must, on request of the letter, restore the property to its former condition, and he is liable to the letter for any loss or damage that may result from such alteration or addition.

[nudger]

Yesterday at Udon Thani immigration GF was told by IO that She did not need to do TM30 as I have Yellow house book.

any comments on this welcome

[fredob43]

12 minutes ago, nudger said:

Yesterday at Udon Thani immigration GF was told by IO that She did not need to do TM30 as I have Yellow house book.

any comments on this welcome

Yes she does, but only if you have left the country. One has to be filled out within 24 hours of your return weekends not applicable. You should then get a slip of paper that you put in your passport to verify same.

 

There are new rules, like if you leave house and stay at another address for more than 24 hours the owner of house must report same to local Immigration or local police within 48 hours. Failing to do same she/he will be fined.

Staying at a hotel is fine provided you use your passport to sign in as they the hotel should report you to the local police.

Just had a friend of mine who used his wife's ID to check into a hotel and his wife got fined 800bt for not complying with the rules. IM said that if he had got a receipt from hotel with his passport No: on it there wouldn't have been a problem. New rules every day so it seems.

[Nong Khai Man]

59 minutes ago, nudger said:

Yesterday at Udon Thani immigration GF was told by IO that She did not need to do TM30 as I have Yellow house book.

any comments on this welcome

I Was Told that also at Nong Khai I.O. So haven't done it for a few years Now....

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

Yes she does, but only if you have left the country. One has to be filled out within 24 hours of your return weekends not applicable. You should then get a slip of paper that you put in your passport to verify same.

 

There are new rules, like if you leave house and stay at another address for more than 24 hours the owner of house must report same to local Immigration or local police within 48 hours. Failing to do same she/he will be fined.

Staying at a hotel is fine provided you use your passport to sign in as they the hotel should report you to the local police.

Just had a friend of mine who used his wife's ID to check into a hotel and his wife got fined 800bt for not complying with the rules. IM said that if he had got a receipt from hotel with his passport No: on it there wouldn't have been a problem. New rules every day so it seems.

 

Member nudger was asking about Udon immigration so I can give some information specific to that office (and Jomtien).

 

If the foreigner has a yellow book for the street address he is claiming as his place of abode, Udon Thani immigration does not need the presence of the Thai owner of the aforementioned property, their ID card, the blue book or copies thereof. The yellow book is sufficient.

 

I also have  yellow book issued when I first moved to Udon and I did my first Retirement extension in Udon last December after several years doing them in Jomtien. Jomtien immigration did need copies of the blue book and owners ID card of the rental property I was claiming as my place of abode. However, over 5 years of annual extension renewals at Jomtien where I was in and out of Thailand up to 6 times each year, I never provided a TM30 or was asked to get the landlord to submit one either. They also did not mention or fine me for not reporting to them within 24-hours of each return.

 

In Udon last December, I was only required to sign a TM28 (change of address form) that they said they would complete and file for me. I had actually relocated back to Udon some 6 months earlier but they didn't ask when I had relocated possibly assuming I had recently relocated. They stapled the tear-off receipt part of the TM28 in my passport.

 

The general understanding is Udon immigration doesn't need a TM30 if the registered foreigner is returning to the same address that they stated as their abode when they filed on their extension renewal. They also do not require one to register within 24-hours of ones return. This is regardless of their sojourn being in Thailand or overseas.

 

Of course some other Immigration jurisdictions use a different set of rules.

[fredob43]

59 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Member nudger was asking about Udon immigration so I can give some information specific to that office (and Jomtien).

 

If the foreigner has a yellow book for the street address he is claiming as his place of abode, Udon Thani immigration does not need the presence of the Thai owner of the aforementioned property, their ID card, the blue book or copies thereof. The yellow book is sufficient.

 

I also have  yellow book issued when I first moved to Udon and I did my first Retirement extension in Udon last December after several years doing them in Jomtien. Jomtien immigration did need copies of the blue book and owners ID card of the rental property I was claiming as my place of abode. However, over 5 years of annual extension renewals at Jomtien where I was in and out of Thailand up to 6 times each year, I never provided a TM30 or was asked to get the landlord to submit one either. They also did not mention or fine me for not reporting to them within 24-hours of each return.

 

In Udon last December, I was only required to sign a TM28 (change of address form) that they said they would complete and file for me. I had actually relocated back to Udon some 6 months earlier but they didn't ask when I had relocated possibly assuming I had recently relocated. They stapled the tear-off receipt part of the TM28 in my passport.

 

The general understanding is Udon immigration doesn't need a TM30 if the registered foreigner is returning to the same address that they stated as their abode when they filed on their extension renewal. They also do not require one to register within 24-hours of ones return. This is regardless of their sojourn being in Thailand or overseas.

 

Of course some other Immigration jurisdictions use a different set of rules.

Our I/O office in Kamphaeng Phet has for the last few months had a big notice on their wall from Thai Immigration. Stating what I have reported in my post. How that differs from Udon I don't know but they told me they are the New rules. You might find next time you go into Udon I/O that they will have the same thing???

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 8/31/2015 at 11:28 PM, Maestro said:

No, only the first person entered in the book. Other foreigners staying in the same house or apartment are not listed as house master.

I am the first and only person listed in my yellow book and I am described as ผูัอากัย or 'tenant' but the local Immigration office accepts it for my extension. 

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

Our I/O office in Kamphaeng Phet has for the last few months had a big notice on their wall from Thai Immigration. Stating what I have reported in my post. How that differs from Udon I don't know but they told me they are the New rules. You might find next time you go into Udon I/O that they will have the same thing???

 

 

There's absolutely no denying that these rules are rolling out across more immigration offices, hence my stating WHEN I did my extension. So far nobody has posted about any changes on the quite active local Udon forums so for the time being, it looks like the 'old rules' still apply.

 

Interesting to see KP have recently followed this trend; good to know. FWIW, Jomtien immigration have been breaking balls over 24-hour reporting and TM30's for maybe a couple of years now. They've raked in enough in fines to build a new, air conditioned office specifically to handle the fleecing correct application of the nebulous laws new rules.

[fredob43]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

There's absolutely no denying that these rules are rolling out across more immigration offices, hence my stating WHEN I did my extension. So far nobody has posted about any changes on the quite active local Udon forums so for the time being, it looks like the 'old rules' still apply.

 

Interesting to see KP have recently followed this trend; good to know. FWIW, Jomtien immigration have been breaking balls over 24-hour reporting and TM30's for maybe a couple of years now. They've raked in enough in fines to build a new, air conditioned office specifically to handle the fleecing correct application of the nebulous laws new rules.

Would reply but as usual TV is buggering up my comp: Just about peed off with them. N/B doesn't happen with any other site. Now going to sign out from TV as they are just not worth the aggro.