Do you have the right to be safe in Thailand?

[sirineou]

The Op needs to define safety

does he mean safe from each other, or does he mean safe from meteors destroying the earth, .

[smotherb]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

Then, don't walk along the pavement. How do you ensure your safety anywhere? You start by paying attention to your environment. Watch out for yourself, don't expect someone else to do it for you.

[sirineou]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

Then, don't walk along the pavement. How do you ensure your safety anywhere? You start by paying attention to your environment. Watch out for yourself, don't expect someone else to do it for you.

you dont assume safety, you assume, laws rules and regulations, that are supposed to be enforced .

In places where these laws rules and regulations are not enforced you are on your own.

[NoshowJones]

As far as I can tell after six years in LOS. foreigners have very few rights here. I think it is important for us to do our own due diligence on safety issues, because the cops are only going to come around for the cleanup and tea money. To serve and protect is a foreign concept, not understood here. If you want police help, you will be expected to pay for it.

My wife and I were threatened by a Thai who is a known criminal. When I went to the police, they took a report and did nothing even though they knew him. We were threatened again, and I was told it would cost 10,000 to "investigate". I took care of the problem through private means.

Having said all that, I feel safer here than in most American large cities. I pay attention, stay away from rough areas and don't go walking around alone at night if I can help it. I also don't wear jewelry or flash cash anywhere. You do and you are just asking for it.

Be smart and take personal responsibility for your safety, If you do, you should be allright.

As far as "rights" to safety here or anywhere else; that's just a utopian concept concocted by liberal politicians for the sheeple they want to vote for them.

Oh, and don't travel in vans. They will get you there very quickly (if they don't wreck) but you will have the hell scared out of you. Driver competence is questionable at best.

Good luck.

Excellent post, apart from illegal motorbikes and trucks, never had a problem in the ten years I have been here.

[NoshowJones]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

Then, don't walk along the pavement. How do you ensure your safety anywhere? You start by paying attention to your environment. Watch out for yourself, don't expect someone else to do it for you.

you dont assume safety, you assume, laws rules and regulations, that are supposed to be enforced .

In places where these laws rules and regulations are not enforced you are on your own.

If you take away the traffic problems, and the state of some of the roads, Thailand would be one of the safest countries in the world.

[SoiBiker]

Safe is a relative term. There's an element of risk in anything you do. What risks are considered acceptable vary from place to place and person to person.

I'm comfortable with the risks of living in Bangkok, even though they're different to where I lived before.

[gamini]

People that post about bad driving in Thailand obviously haven't much experience of other countries and places. Rome is a nightmare for drivers and pedestrians. I drove right across India where cows have the right-of-way and people sleep in the middle of the road. I found Australia pretty terrible too because of the aggressiveness of their drivers, they always seem to be trying to beat the lights. But at least in Thailand there are a few drivers that always give way when you're trying to make a turn. I think they are politer than many of those in other countries. But the real problem is people and children driving without a licence as well as drunks and a complete lack of knowing how to drive. It Is the old problem of enforcing the law

[Crazy chef 1]

Things like traffic conventions are cultural, and maybe what others are getting at is that there is no realistic way of changing this; certainly not by getting worked up about it. Learn the system that is in operation (undocumented though it is), and try to incorporate it

No, there is no way we are going to change anything, and I don't expect to, but surely no one can condone the dreadful road fatalities, there

is nothing wrong with talking about it or having discussions about it on Thaivisa or elsewhere.

Regarding road stuff, the paid authorities have no interest in policing stuff to save lives. None whatsoever...Go to any school and see underage, non licensed, no helmet,non insured kids riding motor cycles out of school with a COP halting traffic so they can carry on...

It is so daft it is unbelievable...

You are correct buddy it is insane...but nothing we can change...though live with it and be prepared.

Btw due of my new job I drive about 2500 km a months here and haven't had any real dangerous incidents so far...think I've adapted quite well( see my last topic)...

[Crazy chef 1]

Things like traffic conventions are cultural, and maybe what others are getting at is that there is no realistic way of changing this; certainly not by getting worked up about it. Learn the system that is in operation (undocumented though it is), and try to incorporate it

No, there is no way we are going to change anything, and I don't expect to, but surely no one can condone the dreadful road fatalities, there

is nothing wrong with talking about it or having discussions about it on Thaivisa or elsewhere.

Regarding road stuff, the paid authorities have no interest in policing stuff to save lives. None whatsoever...Go to any school and see underage, non licensed, no helmet,non insured kids riding motor cycles out of school with a COP halting traffic so they can carry on...

It is so daft it is unbelievable...

You are correct buddy it is insane...but nothing we can change...though live with it and be prepared.

Btw due of my new job I drive about 2500 km a months here and haven't had any real dangerous incidents so far...think I've adapted quite well( see my last topic)...

Hey big man you must be driving like a thai,good luck

Great I have a new fan...missed somebody to play with...

About my driving habits have a look at my last OP at the pub...but moved to motoring

[jerojero]

Well yes! Well duh!

[Linno]

Agree with Coulson. Driving in Saudi with a declared 21 road deaths a day at the site of the accident plus those that die in the ambulance and those in hospital make it the most deadly place in the world to drive according to a recent independent report. Driving in Thailand is much safer based on first hand current experience in both nations every month.

[StreetCowboy]

...If you take away the traffic problems, and the state of some of the roads, Thailand would be one of the safest countries in the world.

"Safe" means "free from unacceptable risk". Many amongst us will accept all sorts of risks until we suffer from the wrong side of their statistical probability.

As I've said elsewhere, "It will be fine, until it isn't".

You have a right to safety, as the Thai government sees it, but that may not correspond to your view of safety. Acceptability of risk is a very subjective matter.

As others have said - if you're not happy with your level of risk here, you can go elsewhere. If you don't, then you're obviously not that bothered about it.

SC

[nemrut]

You're in a developing country so you can't expect the level of safety nor infrastructure you're used to in your home country. Nothing wrong with dicussing your concerns but where it becomes inappropriate all to often is when it turns into veiled racism bashing Thais and their culture.

By and large i find Thais much more civilized on the roads than in many western countries where road rage is a daily occurrence and shootings are the norm.

As for underage drivers, keep in mind that because you're in a developing country, many minors help to support their families need the transportation to get around.

[F4UCorsair]

I actually feel safer on Thai roads than Australian. That may sound foolish, but here's why.

At home there are road rules and most comply. In Thailand, there may be rules, but nobody complies, so I am infinitely more vigilant, and drive far more defensively. I see every Thai driver/rider as my potential 'killer' whereas at home it is the idiot who doesn't comply who is the one who will kill me. I rede a motorcycle in Thailand, but never at home.

If you drive as you do at home, expecting compliance by other drivers, you are in trouble.

In all other ways I feel no more or no less safe.

As for a 'right' to feeel safe?? I think an 'expectation' that you will be safe is a more appropriate way of expressing it.

Edited August 29, 2015 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

............Stupid subject,but then again it gets the post numbers up and keeps this inane site alive.I am brassed necked and have broad shoulders.

I

Inane site?? Are you confusing a site with a thread? Thai Visa is a site, and this 'subject' is a thread.

Maybe you should be looking for some other site in which you will be more interested.

You are given an opportunity to contribute. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. If I was a moderator I'd be sending you on vacation.

Edited August 29, 2015 by F4UCorsair

[hawker9000]

Rights, as I know them, are enshrined in a constitution, which Thailand does not have. Nor will it ever be since it is impossible to guarantee. Safety is not a right.

Uhh, no. "Legal" rights might be "enshrined in a constitution", or some other document or in legislation that applies to you. But then again there are "human rights" or "inalienable rights", the spelling out of which is what most "constitutions" seek to do in the first place. But they're only purposing to spell out that which already exists, not create something new. You have them because you're a human being, not originally because some document says you do. It shouldn't take someone's writing it down and voting on it. Or at least that's the theory. Liberalism sort of supplants those rights with the overriding right of the state to "take care of you", to which much of humanity in the 21st century has sadly become conditioned. I would say basic personal safety is more of a human right. But personal safety **IS** **ALSO** very much a matter of personal responsibility - another notion which pretty much goes the way of the Dodo bird thanks to liberalism.

In Thailand, your personal safety as a foreigner is pretty much subordinate to every Thai person's "right" to convenience & revenue, which pretty much shifts the weight to the 'personal responsibility' part of the equation. Someone else is calling that "adaptation". I wouldn't argue with that actually. As a foreigner here you have the "right" to "adapt" to lots of things ...

Edited August 29, 2015 by hawker9000

[godden]

A good tip is not to drink with Thai men.

[NoshowJones]

...If you take away the traffic problems, and the state of some of the roads, Thailand would be one of the safest countries in the world.

"Safe" means "free from unacceptable risk". Many amongst us will accept all sorts of risks until we suffer from the wrong side of their statistical probability.

As I've said elsewhere, "It will be fine, until it isn't".

You have a right to safety, as the Thai government sees it, but that may not correspond to your view of safety. Acceptability of risk is a very subjective matter.

As others have said - if you're not happy with your level of risk here, you can go elsewhere. If you don't, then you're obviously not that bothered about it.

SC

Maybe you won't want to go elsewhere, as even with the risks, you prefer here to your home country, and you cannot afford to go anywhere else.

[duckmandon]

Things like traffic conventions are cultural, and maybe what others are getting at is that there is no realistic way of changing this; certainly not by getting worked up about it. Learn the system that is in operation (undocumented though it is), and try to incorporate it

No, there is no way we are going to change anything, and I don't expect to, but surely no one can condone the dreadful road fatalities, there

is nothing wrong with talking about it or having discussions about it on Thaivisa or elsewhere.

I do think everyone has the right to be safe & for others not to endanger their lives with either reckless behaviour, just plain arrogance or violence. People do have to take responsability for their actions which is where it fails here in Thailand. Quotes such as "my brakes failed", "the road was dark", & "he made me lose face" are all used in defence to say it wasn't me. They/it did it to me. Until the Thai race get rid of this blaming something or someone else, you will never be 100% safe. They are reckless & unthinking. Me attitude. Take care of yourselves is the best solution for now.

[SoiBiker]

You'll never be 100% safe anywhere. Life is a risky business.

[NoshowJones]

Things like traffic conventions are cultural, and maybe what others are getting at is that there is no realistic way of changing this; certainly not by getting worked up about it. Learn the system that is in operation (undocumented though it is), and try to incorporate it

No, there is no way we are going to change anything, and I don't expect to, but surely no one can condone the dreadful road fatalities, there

is nothing wrong with talking about it or having discussions about it on Thaivisa or elsewhere.

I do think everyone has the right to be safe & for others not to endanger their lives with either reckless behaviour, just plain arrogance or violence. People do have to take responsability for their actions which is where it fails here in Thailand. Quotes such as "my brakes failed", "the road was dark", & "he made me lose face" are all used in defence to say it wasn't me. They/it did it to me. Until the Thai race get rid of this blaming something or someone else, you will never be 100% safe. They are reckless & unthinking. Me attitude. Take care of yourselves is the best solution for now.

A lot of truth in this post.

[duanebigsby]

Things like traffic conventions are cultural, and maybe what others are getting at is that there is no realistic way of changing this; certainly not by getting worked up about it. Learn the system that is in operation (undocumented though it is), and try to incorporate

Traffic conventions are cultural only in the sense that corruption is culturally tolerated.

Without corruption, proper driver's education and road law enforcement could drastically turn around Thailand's dangerous roads.

Without corruption, the roads might be maintained better.

In the meantime....be careful out there!

[louse1953]

I would think its up to you to take care of your own security,and safety

and not rely on other to provide it,as you will be disappointed.

You always need to be aware what is going on around,not paranoid,but

careful,stupid people do stupid things and pay for it with the terrible things

that could happen to them,murder,raped,mugged,conned,the World we

live in today is not a safe place.

I have been to some of the most dangerous places and countries,like

Columbia,Jamaica,Mexico,PNG,Nigeria,and some parts of the U.S.A.

and have never had a serious problem,so Thailand is pretty safe i

think,unless you flash rolls of cash,wander around drunk in the middle

of the night,and most importantly don't ,look right and left before crossing the road.

regards Worgeordie

Excellent post Worgeordie, I agree Thailand is very safe apart from most of the drivers and motorbike riders.

Saying most drivers is incorrect.Some drivers would be correct.

[louse1953]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

They are not mindreaders,so stay online and they will go around you.

[NoshowJones]

I would think its up to you to take care of your own security,and safety

and not rely on other to provide it,as you will be disappointed.

You always need to be aware what is going on around,not paranoid,but

careful,stupid people do stupid things and pay for it with the terrible things

that could happen to them,murder,raped,mugged,conned,the World we

live in today is not a safe place.

I have been to some of the most dangerous places and countries,like

Columbia,Jamaica,Mexico,PNG,Nigeria,and some parts of the U.S.A.

and have never had a serious problem,so Thailand is pretty safe i

think,unless you flash rolls of cash,wander around drunk in the middle

of the night,and most importantly don't ,look right and left before crossing the road.

regards Worgeordie

Excellent post Worgeordie, I agree Thailand is very safe apart from most of the drivers and motorbike riders.

Saying most drivers is incorrect.Some drivers would be correct.

No, I would say most drivers, the road statistics prove that, you could say "some drivers" in ie, the UK.

[NoshowJones]

You do not have the "right" to "be safe" (in quotes because they are nebulous terms), anywhere.

You have the responsibility to put yourself in situations where you are comfortable, and ensure your own safety.

and how do you ensure your safety when motorbikes are coming up behind you when you are walking along the pavement?

They are not mindreaders,so stay online and they will go around you.

What has mindreading got to do with brainless idiots riding along a sidewalk on a motorbike weaving in and out of pedestrians?

[Fabricus]

Saying most drivers is incorrect.Some drivers would be correct.

No, I would say most drivers, the road statistics prove that, you could say "some drivers" in ie, the UK.

Rubbish. Look carefully at the figures for road deaths during Songkran and the New Year's holiday. Look at the ages of those who die; look too at how and where they die. See any patterns emerging?

To be frank, you come across as misinformed and unduly timid. You sound like a frightened old man!

[The Deerhunter]

I would think its up to you to take care of your own security,and safety

and not rely on other to provide it,as you will be disappointed.

You always need to be aware what is going on around,not paranoid,but

careful,stupid people do stupid things and pay for it with the terrible things

that could happen to them,murder,raped,mugged,conned,the World we

live in today is not a safe place.

I have been to some of the most dangerous places and countries,like

Columbia,Jamaica,Mexico,PNG,Nigeria,and some parts of the U.S.A.

and have never had a serious problem,so Thailand is pretty safe i

think,unless you flash rolls of cash,wander around drunk in the middle

of the night,and most importantly don't ,look right and left before crossing the road.

regards Worgeordie

Agree with most of what Worgeordie says. In any big cities or populous countries you have to realize you will be surrounded by people who have less than you, and maybe want some of yours. Being "street-smart" is an unfortunate turn of phrase, because it really means always bear in mind others (who may not have your security at heart) observing you, your state of vulnerability and/or intoxication & state of relative wealth. That has got to be rule No.1 in most cities in most countries. Unfortunately in Thailand it is the streets, meaning roads where you are most at risk. I have both full car & MC licences here but am terrified of riding a bike of any type here. Defensive driving here can only get you so-far, then it is over to luck

[The Deerhunter]

A good tip is not to drink with Thai men.

Is that a selfie of you (on the left) in your Avatar that brought about your concern about drinking with Thai men. Repeat after me: "Deep voice, very tall, big hands, adam's apple. long humorous bones."

[NoshowJones]

Saying most drivers is incorrect.Some drivers would be correct.

No, I would say most drivers, the road statistics prove that, you could say "some drivers" in ie, the UK.

Rubbish. Look carefully at the figures for road deaths during Songkran and the New Year's holiday. Look at the ages of those who die; look too at how and where they die. See any patterns emerging?

To be frank, you come across as misinformed and unduly timid. You sound like a frightened old man!

Unduly timid, a frightened old man????? You will not goad me into a flaming match, now just stay and hide behind your keyboard, you are now ignored.