Interested in the history / background of Isaan people

[Kenny202]

Often speak to my girl about Thai history and she doesn't have a clue. I understand that Isaan culture is predominantly Laos but was just watching an Indian movie and seems to me India shares a lot of its culture and religion with Isaan people. Also read somewhere there were a lot of Arab traders traveled through Thailand who had African slaves. Does this explain the dark skin and negros features. This post is in no way racist and please don't read into it that way. Am genuinely interested. If anyone could direct me to a book or website on the history of Isaan would appreciate it

[stoneyboy]

I know it's stating the obvious but this is always my first point of info.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Isan

[Kenny202]

Thank you

[thehelmsman]

"Negroes features" is term used from a different century don't you think.

[Kenny202]

Spell check did that I meant Negroid. To me it is not a nasty word forgive my ignorance if it is. Do you know anything about Isaan?

[CMHomeboy78]

For a fascinating look at the protohistory of Isaan go to the Ban Chiang archaeological site and museum just east of Udon Thani on Rt.22.

Isaan history in a regional context can be studied in D.G.E.Hall's 'A History of South-East Asia.' First published in 1955, this book is a classic that has never been surpassed. It has gone through many editions. My copy is from St. Martin's Press, 1981, but there are more recent ones.

Back issues [available online] of the Journal of the Siam Society would likely have much information that would be of interest to you.

Good luck.

[thehelmsman]

Spell check did that I meant Negroid. To me it is not a nasty word forgive my ignorance if it is. Do you know anything about Isaan?

Can tell you're not from the US by your choice of words, nasty word?....hell no it's not. What I know comes from wife...

One of the neat things about going there is the folks don't know much about the world and don't really care. My lady at first didn't know there were blacks in the US. They know what's important to them. I have a laminated world map I show where I've been working last. She knows of other countries but not where they are in relationship to Thailand.

Don't really have the ambition to learn the history.

[lostinisaan]

Isaan is indeed a fascinating place to live or to visit. The different dialects are amazing. When i took my extended family from Sisaket to relatives in Mukdahan, some guys had a hard time to understand the guys in Mukdahan, which is only 250 km away.

A lot of different words are being used in Mukdahan, for example smoking a cigarette in Sisaket is "Soop (or suup) Buri, while people in Mukdahan say: "Soop Jaa (medicine, or grass)

Some interesting facts about the lower northeast are the four minority groups, called Suay, Khmer, Lao, Yer.

The term "Isaan" was derived from Isanapura, the capital of the Chenla Kingdom

The .Isaan has been transformed from one of the poorest regions into Thailand's fastest growing economy. The Industry Ministryhas supported industrial zones in Khon Kaen and Udon Thani.

There're quite a few Hindu temples in Sisaket province, "Ganesh" the Indian elephant god is widespread in Isaan.

Most people in Sisaket speak "Lao", but you only have to drive 30 km on the way to Surin, or 70 km to Kantharalak and you'll find many people who do not speak Thai, nor Lao. Plenty of Khmer families there.

In Kantharalak area are even some schools, where only the Khmer language is being taught. You might find some interesting stuff here:

http://www.geckovilla.com/thailandfacts.html and on Wikipedia, etc.........

People in Isaan are much different to other people in the north, south, or central Bangkok. They might be the poorest, but in my humble opinion the nicest people in this country.

I enjoy to have a chat with folks here in Lao and you can see that they really appreciate it when a foreigner speaks Isaan with them.

Bai Sai, Maa? Jindee Dhonn Lharb. Khun Baksida.

Edited August 29, 2015 by lostinisaan

[SantiSuk]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

Edited August 29, 2015 by SantiSuk

[lostinisaan]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

Having almost nothing and smiling a lot, enjoying life was part of my decision to move to Asia.

My first trip to India after graduation opened my eyes and I found it fascinating that all the poor people I'd met obviously had more fun in life than rich, or middle class people in Europe.

.My mom and dad in law are great people and they're not asking for money. There's an ASEAN research that Isaan farmers are the poorest farmers from all the other nine ASEAN countries.

I truly hope that there'll be a government in the near future, who honors their people in the northeast and build factories and more to give them a job.

I used to live in my wife's village 15 years ago and life's really hard. These people deserve to receive help, but it seems that they're only used when the reds and yellows bribed them to vote for them.'

It's very easy to understand why so many of them are trying to find a better life and become bar girls. They do not have many choices and even to get a child into a "better school" is almost impossible for most of them.

" Better schools" are asking for an "entrance fee" of 20 to 50 K. Then the problem with transport, etc....

It's really time for the right government. Enough of this Junta bullshit.

Edited August 29, 2015 by lostinisaan

[puchooay]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

Having almost nothing and smiling a lot, enjoying life was part of my decision to move to Asia.

My first trip to India after graduation opened my eyes and I found it fascinating that all the poor people I'd met obviously had more fun in life than rich, or middle class people in Europe.

.My mom and dad in law are great people and they're not asking for money. There's an ASEAN research that Isaan farmers are the poorest farmers from all the other nine ASEAN countries.

I truly hope that there'll be a government in the near future, who honors their people in the northeast and build factories and more to give them a job.

I used to live in my wife's village 15 years ago and life's really hard. These people deserve to receive help, but it seems that they're only used when the reds and yellows bribed them to vote for them.'

It's very easy to understand why so many of them are trying to find a better life and become bar girls. They do not have many choices and even to get a child into a "better school" is almost impossible for most of them.

" Better schools" are asking for an "entrance fee" of 20 to 50 K. Then the problem with transport, etc....

It's really time for the right government. Enough of this Junta bullshit.

Governments help the Issan people when they want to. Only parties with the Issan people on their side can form a government. The problem is that the government won't educate the masses.

That means that they remain ignorant to what is going on. As touched upon in a previous post, most Issan people seem happy with this.

Try to explain what will happen with AEC and they are simply not interested. Not much thinking beyond today.

[Asheron]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

That is such a bad myth... if someone has hours and hours of time each day to watch brain dead thai soap operas then surely they would have an hour each day to read a book.

[Asheron]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

Having almost nothing and smiling a lot, enjoying life was part of my decision to move to Asia.

My first trip to India after graduation opened my eyes and I found it fascinating that all the poor people I'd met obviously had more fun in life than rich, or middle class people in Europe.

.My mom and dad in law are great people and they're not asking for money. There's an ASEAN research that Isaan farmers are the poorest farmers from all the other nine ASEAN countries.

I truly hope that there'll be a government in the near future, who honors their people in the northeast and build factories and more to give them a job.

I used to live in my wife's village 15 years ago and life's really hard. These people deserve to receive help, but it seems that they're only used when the reds and yellows bribed them to vote for them.'

It's very easy to understand why so many of them are trying to find a better life and become bar girls. They do not have many choices and even to get a child into a "better school" is almost impossible for most of them.

" Better schools" are asking for an "entrance fee" of 20 to 50 K. Then the problem with transport, etc....

It's really time for the right government. Enough of this Junta bullshit.

Governments help the Issan people when they want to. Only parties with the Issan people on their side can form a government. The problem is that the government won't educate the masses.

That means that they remain ignorant to what is going on. As touched upon in a previous post, most Issan people seem happy with this.

Try to explain what will happen with AEC and they are simply not interested. Not much thinking beyond today.

It's not the governments "job" to educate the masses, it's the masses "job" to educate themselfs.

[Water Buffalo]

When exactly did Isaan join Thailand?

[Kenny202]

I put some documentaries and more educational shows on when we have local kids around and they lap it up (we have true vison). The lack of interest you find in many adult Thai people commences at birth. Kids are not taught to imagine or learn about other countries at school. They don't even seem to learn about Thailand history. They are not taught to question anything or debate. Give them cheap whisky and cigarettes and they'll work all day for 200 baht poor buggers. When a senior teacher asks me if Australia is "up or down" and doesn't know where Cambodia is in relation to Thailand...it indicates a problem. Went to a school sports day a few months ago. Teacher paralytic drunk, in fact he had soiled himself. After he had summoned 3 kids to massage him and tried to bite me for 200 baht, he put 10 kids in the back of his pick up and drove them home 20km. No one batted an eye. Lao Kao and 5 baht rollies for the gents and facebook and drama shows for the ladies. Candy for the brain

[steven100]

lao kow ... gambling and pissed all day ...

[Mojomor]

My understanding is that Isaan is the part of Laos which the French did not want, when they created Indochine. Laos had been a tribute Kingdom of Siam and Siam was not quite sure what to do with it, eventually deciding to annexe it, and make it part of Thailand. They changed the name from Lao to Isaan meaning northeast. They did the same with Lanna, which they called Nua (north).

Isaan language is basically Lao or a dialect of same, which evolved to be slightly different. Quite a number of the older people cannot speak Thai, due to lack of education or interest when they were young. The darker skin is a mystery to me, but the slave story is unlikely.

Isaan people form the largest demographic grouping in Thailand today and outnumber Thai ethnic people. This is reflected in the great red/yellow political division which is best left to the local population to sort out.

[Kenny202]

I read Thailand kept Isaan as a buffer from French Indochine.

[Issangeorge]

Not all Isaan people have dark skin, and it gets darker the more they work on the fields, so I would say it is from the sun. As for the stories of having to pay to get into the best schools, my niece got into the best school in our district and she didn't have to pay, she only had to score well on the entrance exam. Of the seven students from our local school who took the exam, my niece and one other girl got excepted.

[Kenny202]

It's not from the sun. Many kids are born black as coal.

[lostinisaan]

It's not from the sun. Many kids are born black as coal.

You should listen to Bob Marley's song. It's not about the color of anybody's' skin.................

" .That until there no longer

First class and second class citizens of any nation

Until the colour of a man's skin

Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes -

Me say war.

That until the basic human rights

Are equally guaranteed to all,

Without regard to race -

Dis a war..

Listen to the song, please.

Edited August 30, 2015 by lostinisaan

[Kenny202]

I spend much of my time trying to convince my wife of that. She is extremely dark and has the most beautiful skin I've ever seen. Of course here its seen as a sign of poverty. I'm not racist in that respect at all. I'm only curious about the background of the Isaan people. Many are also very light skinned and ovbiously have Chinese ancestory

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kenny202

[puchooay]

My understanding is that Isaan is the part of Laos which the French did not want, when they created Indochine. Laos had been a tribute Kingdom of Siam and Siam was not quite sure what to do with it, eventually deciding to annexe it, and make it part of Thailand. They changed the name from Lao to Isaan meaning northeast. They did the same with Lanna, which they called Nua (north).

Isaan language is basically Lao or a dialect of same, which evolved to be slightly different. Quite a number of the older people cannot speak Thai, due to lack of education or interest when they were young. The darker skin is a mystery to me, but the slave story is unlikely.

Isaan people form the largest demographic grouping in Thailand today and outnumber Thai ethnic people. This is reflected in the great red/yellow political division which is best left to the local population to sort out.

That's a nice story but you are only taking about north and middle Issan. When you say "Issan language" you mean one of the Issan languages. Try telling the people of southern Issan that their language is Lao.

[Mojomor]

I read Thailand kept Isaan as a buffer from French Indochine.

You may well have read that somewhere. However, in this part of the world, image seems to be much more important than substance. Writers love to embellish stories to create grand illusions.

Even a simple analysis will prove that once Siam annexed Isaan, it ceased to be a possible buffer. At the Siam/Cambodia border further south we are outside Isaan, so again, there is no buffer. Likewise in the North where Lanna borders Lao.

Reading historical items in this country is difficult, and needs patience. For example, reports on the battle of Koh Chang claim victory for both sides. Given that the Thai navy had ceased to exist after the battle most neutrals draw their own conclusions.

Re the skin colour, the OP might like to check accounts of Aboriginal skin colour in Australia. These people are regarded as one homogeneous race who arrived approx 50,000 years ago. The people who live in the north of the country are much darker than their relations down south.

It seems natural that parents will pass on their genes to children, so the colour of new babies follows.

There is much more to Isaan than skin colour. It has it's own music, cuisine, culture etc.

[SantiSuk]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

That is such a bad myth... if someone has hours and hours of time each day to watch brain dead thai soap operas then surely they would have an hour each day to read a book.

You might wish it were otherwise. Me too. I was just reporting how it is, not how I want it to be.

Soaps = sanuk to some (sad). No myths to see here!

[Kenny202]

My question was not about skin colour but Isaan people's heritage. The reason the northern Aboriginals are darker is because they are the only full bloods left in the country.

Why would someone embellish a story that Isaan was a buffer zone? It seems perfectly reasonable the Southern Thai people would use Isaan and it's people as a potential battle ground / cannon fodder. They're still doing it now, just in a different way

[Mojomor]

Well, it's about face. Saying you have retained Isaan as a buffer zone, sounds a lot more positive than saying you lost or gave away most of Lao to the French.

One one occasion in a museum there was an exhibit which stated that democracy had been gifted to the people in 1932. That's a nice spin on a revolution.

Re aboriginals, it takes a lot more than 200 years to change skin pigmentation that developed over 50,000 years, and the reason the people in the north of Australia are darker is because they are in the tropics, and the people in the south are not. At this stage I will cease to discuss skin colour, as the subject bores me to tears.

[Asheron]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

That is such a bad myth... if someone has hours and hours of time each day to watch brain dead thai soap operas then surely they would have an hour each day to read a book.

You might wish it were otherwise. Me too. I was just reporting how it is, not how I want it to be.

Soaps = sanuk to some (sad). No myths to see here!

My point was that there are very few thais that struggle so much that they use 16 hours of a day to find money so they can put food on the table.

[bushmill]

The who;e Border area from Sisaket/Surin/ Burirum up to roi et Kalasin Amnat and close to Mukdahan has been Part of Khmer ( Cambodia today ) thats why we got all the Khmer Temples there. In Sisakt is a bit outside a nice temple ( museum ) wit a tower wher they sho at each floor the tribes of Sisaket origin. Thats Suay / Yoe / Khmer and Lao NO Thai.

[carlyai]

If you are dirt-poor (my wife's family background, not dissing yours) it pays to concentrate on learning stuff that puts food in your mouth*! Intellectual study is for the effete developed world.

*and having as much fun as you can eke out of life.

That is such a bad myth... if someone has hours and hours of time each day to watch brain dead thai soap operas then surely they would have an hour each day to read a book.