Britain set to accept 'thousands' more refugees

[simple1]

They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

That phrase would apply to many places these days. Same could be said for many parts of the UK and Germany etc.

The difference is stark - according to this report from about a year ago, foreign workers (EU and non-EU) make up around 15% of the UK workforce.

The Business Insider article explains that Oman has an almost 90% foreign workforce.

It would be a good idea for members to articulate why Syrian refugees should relocate to Saudi & the Gulf State dictatorships, many of whose citizens are the ideologues & financiers of the Sunni extremists who they are fleeing from in the first place.

[Smithson]

They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

That phrase would apply to many places these days. Same could be said for many parts of the UK and Germany etc.

Or even parts of Thailand, Pattaya, Samui, Phuket spring to mind.

[cmsally]

They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

That phrase would apply to many places these days. Same could be said for many parts of the UK and Germany etc.

The difference is stark - according to this report from about a year ago, foreign workers (EU and non-EU) make up around 15% of the UK workforce.

The Business Insider article explains that Oman has an almost 90% foreign workforce.

It needs to be more explicit than that. In the case of the middle east we are talking about foreign born workers. How many of these would be staying in the middle east for good. How many are coming there looking to relocate permanently etc etc

If you are looking at workforce numbers then how many unemployed or dependents also there etc.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/oman-launches-amnesty-undocumented-workers-150505080844523.html

It is a bit difficult to compare workforce statistics when the present mass exodus is really about people moving en masse with families and looking for permanent residence and the benefits that go with it.

[cmsally]

They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

That phrase would apply to many places these days. Same could be said for many parts of the UK and Germany etc.

The difference is stark - according to this report from about a year ago, foreign workers (EU and non-EU) make up around 15% of the UK workforce.

The Business Insider article explains that Oman has an almost 90% foreign workforce.

It would be a good idea for members to articulate why Syrian refugees should relocate to Saudi & the Gulf State dictatorships, many of whose citizens are the ideologues & financiers of the Sunni extremists who they are fleeing from in the first place.

Frying pan and fire spring to mind. But on too close scrutiny it could be obvious just how the Muslim "brothers" who claim to love each other so much , in fact come from the world's biggest dysfunctional family. It is usually not beneficial to get involved in other people's family squabbles and the same goes for religion.

[RuamRudy]

The difference is stark - according to this report from about a year ago, foreign workers (EU and non-EU) make up around 15% of the UK workforce.

The Business Insider article explains that Oman has an almost 90% foreign workforce.

It needs to be more explicit than that. In the case of the middle east we are talking about foreign born workers. How many of these would be staying in the middle east for good. How many are coming there looking to relocate permanently etc etc

If you are looking at workforce numbers then how many unemployed or dependents also there etc.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/oman-launches-amnesty-undocumented-workers-150505080844523.html

It is a bit difficult to compare workforce statistics when the present mass exodus is really about people moving en masse with families and looking for permanent residence and the benefits that go with it.

Of course only annecdotal, but I know many Indian people who consider Oman home; I have many European colleagues who have lived here for 10 years or more.

But that said, I am not sure your point is valid - even if any projected influx was only temporary, the overwhelming dominance of a foreign people could have a destabilising effect when you are already very finely balanced. Omanis are not like Emiratis - here they drive buses, provide security, mend the roads, do the dirty jobs that most other countries' people also do, but there are so few that they are already vastly outnumbered. By bringing in large numbers of people who will, in the main, not be able to perform skilled work, the country will suffer more than the UK would.

[cmsally]

The Gulf States are of course very small and probably have no social safety net for people who could not find employment. I think we are agreed that this influx does not seem very employable.

Whereas UK, Germany etc are stupid enough to pay through the teeth to support them all. Because lets face it that is what it amounts to.

I agree on the human scale it is mostly a tragedy but when do you draw the line with self sacrifice or in most cases being sacrificed by your government.

[Usernames]

The issue here is so very clear. None of these people can actually be refugees. They are coming from Turkey, which has continually been advertised as a modern, successful, and even wealthy nation. These refugees then are fleeing prosperity! It's just that they want MORE prosperity, so they are advancing on the Giant Free Meal that awaits them in Germany, France, and the UK. Remember, the family of the kid who drowned (and who is now the deceased poster child for letting everybody into Europe who wants to come), that family had been in Turkey for a year. A year!!! Hardly seems like a refugee to me, especially considering how well dressed and healthy they looked as well as the cash they were carrying. The death of the child is directly because of his greedy, reckless father who wanted to leave a good country, Turkey, for an even better one, Canada. Refugees??? Don't think so.

[RuamRudy]

The issue here is so very clear. None of these people can actually be refugees. They are coming from Turkey, which has continually been advertised as a modern, successful, and even wealthy nation. These refugees then are fleeing prosperity! It's just that they want MORE prosperity, so they are advancing on the Giant Free Meal that awaits them in Germany, France, and the UK. Remember, the family of the kid who drowned (and who is now the deceased poster child for letting everybody into Europe who wants to come), that family had been in Turkey for a year. A year!!! Hardly seems like a refugee to me, especially considering how well dressed and healthy they looked as well as the cash they were carrying. The death of the child is directly because of his greedy, reckless father who wanted to leave a good country, Turkey, for an even better one, Canada. Refugees??? Don't think so.

There are 2 million refugees in Turkey - even the richest of countries (and Turkey is way down that list) could not afford to give that number of people much more than a subsistence living.

It is human nature to aspire to better your and your families' lot. The fact that the Mediterranean crossing is perilous is hardly unknown - to take your whole family on such a crossing means you are either very callous or very desperate, but I would suggest the latter. I am more than willing to admit that if I was unfortunate enough to be living in those circumstances, I would give serious thought to doing the same.

Edited September 6, 2015 by RuamRudy

[Usernames]

The issue here is so very clear. None of these people can actually be refugees. They are coming from Turkey, which has continually been advertised as a modern, successful, and even wealthy nation. These refugees then are fleeing prosperity! It's just that they want MORE prosperity, so they are advancing on the Giant Free Meal that awaits them in Germany, France, and the UK. Remember, the family of the kid who drowned (and who is now the deceased poster child for letting everybody into Europe who wants to come), that family had been in Turkey for a year. A year!!! Hardly seems like a refugee to me, especially considering how well dressed and healthy they looked as well as the cash they were carrying. The death of the child is directly because of his greedy, reckless father who wanted to leave a good country, Turkey, for an even better one, Canada. Refugees??? Don't think so.

There are 2 million refugees in Turkey - even the richest of countries (and Turkey is way down that list) could not afford to give that number of people much more than a subsistence living.

It is human nature to aspire to better yourself and your families' lot. The fact that the Mediterranean crossing is perilous is hardly unknown - to take your whole family on such a crossing means you are either very callous or very desperate, but I would suggest the latter. I am more than willing to admit that if I was living unfortunate enough to be living in those circumstances, I would give serious thought to doing the same.

But the point is that these people are not refugees as is being claimed. I've got news for you, btw, there are lots of Thai people living on and working for less than 300 baht today whose living accommodations do not even match those in these Turkish refugee camps. If desperation and poverty is the issue (again, someone living peacefully in Turkey for one year can hardly be considered a refugee), then surely a lot of people in SE Asia are more deserving than these Middle Easterners.

[gandalf12]

There is a big difference between being housed in a refugee camp, where the likes of the Red cross and other NGO's take the main responsibility of caring for these people and being welcomed as part of society like they are when they arrive in an EU country but then the Islamic apologists never let facts get in the way of defending Muslims regardless.

The UK has also given over a BILLION Pounds to Syria to help its people unlike the very rich Arabic states

Can you provide figures on how much the Arab states have contributed in aid to the refugees?

Do the research yourself... You know what Google is right?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1441508830.407620.jpg

Rather than relying on dramatic headlines from the rabidly right wing press, you should scroll down a little - read the Business Insider article and try to understand the situation from a gulf state perspective, where the locals are already hugely outnumbered by immigrants.

I am in a very progressive Gulf state country at the moment - very western facing and generous, with locals who are prepared to do regular, menial jobs (i.e., not the gulf countries where the locals simply drive around in lamboughinis all day) but the workforce is almost 90% immigrants (myself included). They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

I am guessing you are in Oman as none of the other gulf states would have the locals working in taxis and the like. I am also assuming you are Indian which are the majority in the Gulf. One thing you are forgetting, these people are Middle Eastern Muslims. The GCC is always saying how they look after their brother muslims and certainly places like Saudi have the space to accommodate them. The world is fed up with a load of rhetoric from the GCC and then blame everyone else when they do nothing.

It is time for the GCC to gt off their backsides and do something other than talk.

Before you say I dont know the MIddle East I have spent nearly 20 years in the GCC countries.

[Smithson]

^ Saying other countries should do more, so your country can do less, while ignoring that there are already plenty of countries doing much more than yours.

[RuamRudy]

The issue here is so very clear. None of these people can actually be refugees. They are coming from Turkey, which has continually been advertised as a modern, successful, and even wealthy nation. These refugees then are fleeing prosperity! It's just that they want MORE prosperity, so they are advancing on the Giant Free Meal that awaits them in Germany, France, and the UK. Remember, the family of the kid who drowned (and who is now the deceased poster child for letting everybody into Europe who wants to come), that family had been in Turkey for a year. A year!!! Hardly seems like a refugee to me, especially considering how well dressed and healthy they looked as well as the cash they were carrying. The death of the child is directly because of his greedy, reckless father who wanted to leave a good country, Turkey, for an even better one, Canada. Refugees??? Don't think so.

There are 2 million refugees in Turkey - even the richest of countries (and Turkey is way down that list) could not afford to give that number of people much more than a subsistence living.

It is human nature to aspire to better yourself and your families' lot. The fact that the Mediterranean crossing is perilous is hardly unknown - to take your whole family on such a crossing means you are either very callous or very desperate, but I would suggest the latter. I am more than willing to admit that if I was living unfortunate enough to be living in those circumstances, I would give serious thought to doing the same.

But the point is that these people are not refugees as is being claimed. I've got news for you, btw, there are lots of Thai people living on and working for less than 300 baht today whose living accommodations do not even match those in these Turkish refugee camps. If desperation and poverty is the issue (again, someone living peacefully in Turkey for one year can hardly be considered a refugee), then surely a lot of people in SE Asia are more deserving than these Middle Easterners.

I don't disagree with anything you say (although I am not convinced about the relative conditions of the Turkish refugee camps), but you are looking at it from a 3rd party perspective; the people who are fleeing to Europe are chasing something better; they are not considering their lot compared to a Thai labourer.

[Usernames]

The issue here is so very clear. None of these people can actually be refugees. They are coming from Turkey, which has continually been advertised as a modern, successful, and even wealthy nation. These refugees then are fleeing prosperity! It's just that they want MORE prosperity, so they are advancing on the Giant Free Meal that awaits them in Germany, France, and the UK. Remember, the family of the kid who drowned (and who is now the deceased poster child for letting everybody into Europe who wants to come), that family had been in Turkey for a year. A year!!! Hardly seems like a refugee to me, especially considering how well dressed and healthy they looked as well as the cash they were carrying. The death of the child is directly because of his greedy, reckless father who wanted to leave a good country, Turkey, for an even better one, Canada. Refugees??? Don't think so.

There are 2 million refugees in Turkey - even the richest of countries (and Turkey is way down that list) could not afford to give that number of people much more than a subsistence living.

It is human nature to aspire to better yourself and your families' lot. The fact that the Mediterranean crossing is perilous is hardly unknown - to take your whole family on such a crossing means you are either very callous or very desperate, but I would suggest the latter. I am more than willing to admit that if I was living unfortunate enough to be living in those circumstances, I would give serious thought to doing the same.

But the point is that these people are not refugees as is being claimed. I've got news for you, btw, there are lots of Thai people living on and working for less than 300 baht today whose living accommodations do not even match those in these Turkish refugee camps. If desperation and poverty is the issue (again, someone living peacefully in Turkey for one year can hardly be considered a refugee), then surely a lot of people in SE Asia are more deserving than these Middle Easterners.

I don't disagree with anything you say (although I am not convinced about the relative conditions of the Turkish refugee camps), but you are looking at it from a 3rd party perspective; the people who are fleeing to Europe are chasing something better; they are not considering their lot compared to a Thai labourer.

What you say about their mindset is true, of course. But they don't get to decide--or, in a sane world, they shouldn't get to decide. That should be up to the countries they seek to enter. Just to rush across the border, trash train stations, buses, and turn your nose up at going to refugee processing center doesn't cut it. That is an invasion. And should be treated accordingly.

[Scott]

The determination of whether someone is a refugee is done through a screening process. It involves people fleeing because of a well founded fear of persecution as the main criteria.

[cmsally]

So then logically, one could stack up a load of Thai labourers at the border and they should get priority ?

If I wake up one morning and decide it would be "better" in Canada, can I demand entry?

[Usernames]

The determination of whether someone is a refugee is done through a screening process. It involves people fleeing because of a well founded fear of persecution as the main criteria.

But at this point, they are fleeing Turkey, not Syria.

[RuamRudy]

Do the research yourself... You know what Google is right?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1441508830.407620.jpg

Rather than relying on dramatic headlines from the rabidly right wing press, you should scroll down a little - read the Business Insider article and try to understand the situation from a gulf state perspective, where the locals are already hugely outnumbered by immigrants.

I am in a very progressive Gulf state country at the moment - very western facing and generous, with locals who are prepared to do regular, menial jobs (i.e., not the gulf countries where the locals simply drive around in lamboughinis all day) but the workforce is almost 90% immigrants (myself included). They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

I am guessing you are in Oman as none of the other gulf states would have the locals working in taxis and the like. I am also assuming you are Indian which are the majority in the Gulf. One thing you are forgetting, these people are Middle Eastern Muslims. The GCC is always saying how they look after their brother muslims and certainly places like Saudi have the space to accommodate them. The world is fed up with a load of rhetoric from the GCC and then blame everyone else when they do nothing.

It is time for the GCC to gt off their backsides and do something other than talk.

Before you say I dont know the MIddle East I have spent nearly 20 years in the GCC countries.

I don't know you so I wouldn't dream of assuming what you do or don't know. You are half right about me though: I am in Oman, although I am a white Scottish protestant.

As for GCC brotherhood, there is an interesting dimension elsewhere in this thread that was previously outside my awareness, and that is to do with rival muslim sects - the unity you suggest does not appear to be there. Muslims are not, in their own eyes, all equal.

[Scott]

Turkey does not convey Refugee Status. It is not a country of first asylum. They are not afforded the same protection as a country that provides asylum. Thailand is another country which does not provide asylum That means they may allow them to stay, or they may repatriate them.

[gandalf12]

^ Saying other countries should do more, so your country can do less, while ignoring that there are already plenty of countries doing much more than yours.

I would send them back or to other muslim countries. The choice would be theirs. I bet though the muslim countries would say no we dont want them. After all they are brothers

[gandalf12]

Do the research yourself... You know what Google is right?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1441508830.407620.jpg

Rather than relying on dramatic headlines from the rabidly right wing press, you should scroll down a little - read the Business Insider article and try to understand the situation from a gulf state perspective, where the locals are already hugely outnumbered by immigrants.

I am in a very progressive Gulf state country at the moment - very western facing and generous, with locals who are prepared to do regular, menial jobs (i.e., not the gulf countries where the locals simply drive around in lamboughinis all day) but the workforce is almost 90% immigrants (myself included). They simply cannot afford to allow more foreigners in when their very identity is so fragile.

I am guessing you are in Oman as none of the other gulf states would have the locals working in taxis and the like. I am also assuming you are Indian which are the majority in the Gulf. One thing you are forgetting, these people are Middle Eastern Muslims. The GCC is always saying how they look after their brother muslims and certainly places like Saudi have the space to accommodate them. The world is fed up with a load of rhetoric from the GCC and then blame everyone else when they do nothing.

It is time for the GCC to gt off their backsides and do something other than talk.

Before you say I dont know the MIddle East I have spent nearly 20 years in the GCC countries.

I don't know you so I wouldn't dream of assuming what you do or don't know. You are half right about me though: I am in Oman, although I am a white Scottish protestant.

As for GCC brotherhood, there is an interesting dimension elsewhere in this thread that was previously outside my awareness, and that is to do with rival muslim sects - the unity you suggest does not appear to be there. Muslims are not, in their own eyes, all equal.

I suggest you take them all in Scotland. Why not it is the Christian thing to do

[gandalf12]

The Sunni's and Shia's hate each other. So much for brotherly love

[RuamRudy]

I am guessing you are in Oman as none of the other gulf states would have the locals working in taxis and the like. I am also assuming you are Indian which are the majority in the Gulf. One thing you are forgetting, these people are Middle Eastern Muslims. The GCC is always saying how they look after their brother muslims and certainly places like Saudi have the space to accommodate them. The world is fed up with a load of rhetoric from the GCC and then blame everyone else when they do nothing.

It is time for the GCC to gt off their backsides and do something other than talk.

Before you say I dont know the MIddle East I have spent nearly 20 years in the GCC countries.

I don't know you so I wouldn't dream of assuming what you do or don't know. You are half right about me though: I am in Oman, although I am a white Scottish protestant.

As for GCC brotherhood, there is an interesting dimension elsewhere in this thread that was previously outside my awareness, and that is to do with rival muslim sects - the unity you suggest does not appear to be there. Muslims are not, in their own eyes, all equal.

I suggest you take them all in Scotland. Why not it is the Christian thing to do

I am not sure if we could manage all of them, but our government is taking a constructive, humanitarian approach that is broadly supported in Scotland.

[umbanda]

• On the news Today:

Egyptian mogul wants to buy Mediterranean islands to host refugees

Looks like some countries and people, can offer just stupid ideas.

Egypt got only 3% of Syrian refugees.

How about the Sinai Desert? It is Egyptian, big and empty, and occupation can be done, with money, water, and a lot of hard work.

Nothing is impossible... specially for a billionaire, and an Arab, if wanted.

Statistics with other countries "refugees", many years ago in the US, shows that only 60% were willing to do sacrifices to make a living, after finding easier ways to do it, not always honestly or legally. Europe is getting, not just more people, it is getting a VERY BIG problem. Not all those people are "refugees"..many...too many...are just people looking for an easier life.

Every country have that kind of "refugees".

The main cause of this problem or "opportunity" was the UK, the US, and France. The ones that now are not very willing to get the refugees of its wars in the Middle East and Africa. No "thousands"... millions are coming, and that is what ISIS wants to do...big troubles to the Western world.

Ask those countries to take responsibility, and the others Arab countries that still without "revolution". Egypt, Saudi, Pakistan, Dubai, etc, etc, not all Europe. At this particular moment in Europe....this is a recipe for more recession, and violence. It is a Disaster.

Edited September 6, 2015 by umbanda

[simple1]

The determination of whether someone is a refugee is done through a screening process. It involves people fleeing because of a well founded fear of persecution as the main criteria.

Whilst the Dublin Regulation is on hold, doesn't Germany and other EU countries in effect provide temporary protection visas in country for positively vetted refugees; when the source country is declared 'safe' required to return to the country of origin? I guess the big challenge would be sufficient resources to enforce any determination.

[Usernames]

Turkey does not convey Refugee Status. It is not a country of first asylum. They are not afforded the same protection as a country that provides asylum. Thailand is another country which does not provide asylum That means they may allow them to stay, or they may repatriate them.

But that is not the point. Your earlier post indicated that to be considered a refugee, the person must establish a fear of persecution. So, if they are in Turkey and living there for a couple of years, with food, housing, and medical care, how are they being persecuted?

[dragonballs]

in my home country, the working, tax paying people, wanting social housing (rent at a reasonable price) have to wait years

if you want social benefits, you must prove you have no other incomes, own almost nothing, and you will have to go beg every month to keep your benefits

refugees, economical or not, get everything & inmmediatly for free

how long before people start to revolt ?

[Usernames]

in my home country, the working, tax paying people, wanting social housing (rent at a reasonable price) have to wait years

if you want social benefits, you must prove you have no other incomes, own almost nothing, and you will have to go beg every month to keep your benefits

refugees, economical or not, get everything & inmmediatly for free

how long before people start to revolt ?

In the US, you may have a chance. If you're in Europe, where they have already taken all your guns, and where the government may indeed turn around and arm the "refugee militias," you are out of luck.

[Smithson]

Turkey does not convey Refugee Status. It is not a country of first asylum. They are not afforded the same protection as a country that provides asylum. Thailand is another country which does not provide asylum That means they may allow them to stay, or they may repatriate them.

But that is not the point. Your earlier post indicated that to be considered a refugee, the person must establish a fear of persecution. So, if they are in Turkey and living there for a couple of years, with food, housing, and medical care, how are they being persecuted?

Did you see that pic? The girls in the tent? They do not look like they are doing to well for food, housing and medical care.

[gandalf12]

I am guessing you are in Oman as none of the other gulf states would have the locals working in taxis and the like. I am also assuming you are Indian which are the majority in the Gulf. One thing you are forgetting, these people are Middle Eastern Muslims. The GCC is always saying how they look after their brother muslims and certainly places like Saudi have the space to accommodate them. The world is fed up with a load of rhetoric from the GCC and then blame everyone else when they do nothing.

It is time for the GCC to gt off their backsides and do something other than talk.

Before you say I dont know the MIddle East I have spent nearly 20 years in the GCC countries.

I don't know you so I wouldn't dream of assuming what you do or don't know. You are half right about me though: I am in Oman, although I am a white Scottish protestant.

As for GCC brotherhood, there is an interesting dimension elsewhere in this thread that was previously outside my awareness, and that is to do with rival muslim sects - the unity you suggest does not appear to be there. Muslims are not, in their own eyes, all equal.

I suggest you take them all in Scotland. Why not it is the Christian thing to do

I am not sure if we could manage all of them, but our government is taking a constructive, humanitarian approach that is broadly supported in Scotland.

Do you still get a bonus for coverting to Islam in Oman? You used to. Could be worth thinking about for despite everything it is mostly the muslims who, when they are in the UK want to change it to the Islamic way.

[Usernames]

Turkey does not convey Refugee Status. It is not a country of first asylum. They are not afforded the same protection as a country that provides asylum. Thailand is another country which does not provide asylum That means they may allow them to stay, or they may repatriate them.

But that is not the point. Your earlier post indicated that to be considered a refugee, the person must establish a fear of persecution. So, if they are in Turkey and living there for a couple of years, with food, housing, and medical care, how are they being persecuted?

Did you see that pic? The girls in the tent? They do not look like they are doing to well for food, housing and medical care.

Neither are billions of other people across the globe. So, is your point to let in those billions as well?