Do they want farang retirees here?

[Acharn]

I've been here 33 years now, and the xenophobes have chipped away at farang privileges the whole time. I sometimes regret that I didn't apply for Thai citizenship when I first came back, but I was worried it might affect my Army pension. That was before the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that you did not lose your American citizenship just because you became a citizen of another country as well. When Thaksin was first elected Prime Minister he appointed a guy named Phurachai as Minister of the Interior, the ministry that then controlled the police department, so he was also in charge of granting permanent resident status and/or citizenship. He thoroughly hated foreigners, although I think it was more Chinese and Indians he disliked. I believe he's living in New Zealand now.

The land ownership thing is unlikely to change. It comes from resentment that the British government was able to force Siam to grant English companies land rights, especially along the Burmese border. The law was made absolute under Field Marshall Phibunsongkhram in, I think, 1942 during one of his stints as dictator. The elite fear that if foreigners were allowed to bid for land it would drive the prices up and make it less profitable for them to speculate in real estate.

The ninety-day reporting goes back to another dictatorship, Kraivichien, after the 1976 counter-revolution. There is always a xenophobic fraction among the elite, and from time to time they are able to cut another slice off the salami.

[jspill]

We're all welcome, young or old, retired or otherwise.

[elviajero]

I could never understand why the married rate is 50% of the single rate. Logic?

IMO

800k is more than needed but helps to keep the numbers down.

If someone is married the wife can also work and contribute to the family income. And being in a de facto marriage is reason to make it easier for the husband to stay on humanitarian grounds.

de facto marriage - my understanding is that de facto relationships do not count as married for visa purposes. Humanitarian grounds - no understanding.

I would appreciate enlightenment in this regard.

To get a marriage extension the marriage must be Legal (de Jure) and a Real relationship (de facto)

You prove it's legal with the marriage certificate. It's hard to prove with an application form if the marriage/relationship is real but thats the reason for the photos that have to be taken. The main reason for the increased home visits is to check that the husband and wife do live together in a real marriage/relationship.

By humanitarian grounds I simply mean the right for a husband and wife to live together and support each other.

[elviajero]

I could never understand why the married rate is 50% of the single rate. Logic?

IMO

800k is more than needed but helps to keep the numbers down.

If someone is married the wife can also work and contribute to the family income. And being in a de facto marriage is reason to make it easier for the husband to stay on humanitarian grounds.

de facto marriage - my understanding is that de facto relationships do not count as married for visa purposes. Humanitarian grounds - no understanding.

I would appreciate enlightenment in this regard.

Arent humanitarian grounds granted when ones human rights are violated and there are no other options ? Not intended to make it "easier"

I was trying to say that being married and in a real relationship is more reason to let someone stay here than those that simply deposit some money in the bank. And therefore making it 50% less makes it easier for them to stay.

They issue PR on the basis of "humanitarian reasons" which is just an indefinite extension of stay. So I'd say the same principal would apply to a 1 year extension.

[Soutpeel]

I could never understand why the married rate is 50% of the single rate. Logic?

IMO

800k is more than needed but helps to keep the numbers down.

If someone is married the wife can also work and contribute to the family income. And being in a de facto marriage is reason to make it easier for the husband to stay on humanitarian grounds.

de facto marriage - my understanding is that de facto relationships do not count as married for visa purposes. Humanitarian grounds - no understanding.

I would appreciate enlightenment in this regard.

Arent humanitarian grounds granted when ones human rights are violated and there are no other options ? Not intended to make it "easier"

I was trying to say that being married and in a real relationship is more reason to let someone stay here than those that simply deposit some money in the bank. And therefore making it 50% less makes it easier for them to stay.

They issue PR on the basis of "humanitarian reasons" which is just an indefinite extension of stay. So I'd say the same principal would apply to a 1 year extension.

An indefinite extension of stay is not PR

PR grants unhindered legal right of abode

Two very different things

Edited September 5, 2015 by Soutpeel

[elviajero]

An indefinite extension of stay is not PR

PR grants unhindered legal right of abode

Two very different things

Permanent Residency is permit to stay indefinitely. It's an indefinite leave to stay.

Annual extensions are a permit to stay 1 year. They're a temporary leave to stay.

PR can be taken away. It's lost if you leave the country and return without a re-entry permit. Not so different.

[aronp1]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.Visa rules will change but not in that direction.

[Dogmatix]

They seem to want foreign retirees because they keep the financial hurdles for retirement and marriage extensions relatively low, even though they have a very inefficient bureaucracy and have pointless reporting requirements etc.But they don't want to give foreigners permanent rights except for a very few because they have a fear of being swamped. Malaysia has a fantastic retirement visa but the financial hurdle is much higher.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Dogmatix

[MaeJoMTB]

They seem to want foreign retirees because they keep the financial hurdles for retirement and marriage extensions relatively low, even though they have a very inefficient bureaucracy and have pointless reporting requirements etc.But they don't want to give foreigners permanent rights except for a very few because they have a fear of being swamped. Malaysia has a fantastic retirement visa but the financial hurdle is much higher.

Retirement finance =9x minimum wage.

Marriage finance = 5x minimum wage.

With less than 5% of employed staff in Chiang Mai beating the minimum wage,

Your and my definitions of 'low' seem different.

[duanebigsby]

Define and quantify "signifcant"

70 to 140 thousand in a populuation of 67 odd million is insignificant irrespective of the way you try and dress it up

I agree that was my point.

Thank you

I saw your original point as being we made a huge contribution to the Thai economy.

Then it was pointed out that our contribution is bugger all in the grand scheme of things and you say that was your point exactly.

How is 'bugger all" the same as "significant"?

[Dogmatix]

I've been here 33 years now, and the xenophobes have chipped away at farang privileges the whole time. I sometimes regret that I didn't apply for Thai citizenship when I first came back, but I was worried it might affect my Army pension. That was before the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that you did not lose your American citizenship just because you became a citizen of another country as well. When Thaksin was first elected Prime Minister he appointed a guy named Phurachai as Minister of the Interior, the ministry that then controlled the police department, so he was also in charge of granting permanent resident status and/or citizenship. He thoroughly hated foreigners, although I think it was more Chinese and Indians he disliked. I believe he's living in New Zealand now.

The land ownership thing is unlikely to change. It comes from resentment that the British government was able to force Siam to grant English companies land rights, especially along the Burmese border. The law was made absolute under Field Marshall Phibunsongkhram in, I think, 1942 during one of his stints as dictator. The elite fear that if foreigners were allowed to bid for land it would drive the prices up and make it less profitable for them to speculate in real estate.

The ninety-day reporting goes back to another dictatorship, Kraivichien, after the 1976 counter-revolution. There is always a xenophobic fraction among the elite, and from time to time they are able to cut another slice off the salami.

Actually it was the US that gave voluntarily have up the treaty land rights for Americans through the Treaty of Amity and economic relations in the early 60s that abandoned the land rights of the previous treaty. This left Britain and all the other countries that had land ownership rights in a weak position to bargain when Thailand terminated their land rights treaties on the grounds that the U.S. had already done so. None had the bargaining power of the U.S. in SE Asia in the 60s and the US accepted the Thai argument that foreign land ownership in rural areas would cause resentment and drive people into the hands of the communists.

The previous US treaty gave land ownership rights to Americans from states that permitted Thais to own land.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Dogmatix

[Broeno]

It's hard to understand what they are saying, because it's never a straigt answer. Officially statements are always polite, BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY ARE THINKING. !!!!!!!!!

[Kondiao]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

[Cypress Hill]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

Nobody really cares what you accept.

There is marketing out there for pretty much every product or service you can think of. It's up to the punter to decide whether he's being sold a deal of a lifetime or crock of shit.

Thailand is not a World Health Organisation-sanctioned retirement state. They don't assign a security guard/gofer to each retiree as he arrives with his suitcases to make sure he doesn't fall foul of the overcharging taxi driver or the light-fingered streetwalker.

No one's saying you deserve to get screwed but that, if you feel you ARE being screwed, you don't have to remain bent over a barrel.

All you have to do is get up, wipe yourself down, pull on your pants and go elsewhere.

[SoiBiker]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

I don't think I've ever seen Thailand promoted in those terms. Do you have any examples?

[Dogmatix]

They seem to want foreign retirees because they keep the financial hurdles for retirement and marriage extensions relatively low, even though they have a very inefficient bureaucracy and have pointless reporting requirements etc.But they don't want to give foreigners permanent rights except for a very few because they have a fear of being swamped. Malaysia has a fantastic retirement visa but the financial hurdle is much higher.

Retirement finance =9x minimum wage.

Marriage finance = 5x minimum wage.

With less than 5% of employed staff in Chiang Mai beating the minimum wage,

Your and my definitions of 'low' seem different.

Relatively low compared to other countries and what they would expect to be expat living costs. Malaysia's retirement scheme requires about 10 times more cash than a Thai retirement extension. The UK requires 34 times as much from a Thai retiree.

What country uses the minimum wage as a basis for cash needed for a long-term visas? That is supposed to be basic subsistence for a local without much education who has free government healthcare. It would be more logical for them to use the minimum salary required for a work permit. On that basis retirement is 1.3x and marriage extension is .7x which works out an at average of 1x the income needed for citizens of most farang countries to get a WP.

The fact that they haven't raised these hurdles for about 20 years seems further evidence that they actually want foreigners to keep applying for these extensions.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Dogmatix

[hawker9000]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

"duel[sic] pricing what's that?"

'Says it all.

Next.

[hawker9000]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

Nobody really cares what you accept.

There is marketing out there for pretty much every product or service you can think of. It's up to the punter to decide whether he's being sold a deal of a lifetime or crock of shit.

Thailand is not a World Health Organisation-sanctioned retirement state. They don't assign a security guard/gofer to each retiree as he arrives with his suitcases to make sure he doesn't fall foul of the overcharging taxi driver or the light-fingered streetwalker.

No one's saying you deserve to get screwed but that, if you feel you ARE being screwed, you don't have to remain bent over a barrel.

All you have to do is get up, wipe yourself down, pull on your pants and go elsewhere.

The OP is merely asking, do they want us or not? It's a fair question. So much defensiveness. "I understand it. I can handle it. Be more like me or leave." It's hard to believe someone is really as accepting and as acclimated as he pretends when he can't handle a perfectly reasonable question from a fellow foreigner without a pantload of condescension.

[Naam]

Does anyone anywhere actively court immigrants? Nothing personal to you or Thailand.

Try just entering the US as a business/tourist guest if you think Thai immigration are surly! These guys are converted prison warders.

december 2003

-wife returning (short trip to London)

-Atlanta immigration: "what's the purpose of your visit?"

-wife: "we have a home in Florida since 1989 and spend several months a year there."

-Atlanta immigration: "owning a home in Florida is not a valid reason to enter the United States."

-wife: "would you like to see copies of our tax returns?"

Atlanta immigration: "we are the INS, not the IRS! this time i admit you."

april 2004

-our home and two homes i built for German friends sold, all belongings seaworthy packed and stored.

january 2005

after checking half a dozen countries Thai "retiree" visa.

july 2005

-40' high cube (60m³) container arrives in Thailand.

since then: no IRS, no april 15 deadline, no income tax, life is good!

[Naam]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

Nobody really cares what you accept.

There is marketing out there for pretty much every product or service you can think of. It's up to the punter to decide whether he's being sold a deal of a lifetime or crock of shit.

Thailand is not a World Health Organisation-sanctioned retirement state. They don't assign a security guard/gofer to each retiree as he arrives with his suitcases to make sure he doesn't fall foul of the overcharging taxi driver or the light-fingered streetwalker.

No one's saying you deserve to get screwed but that, if you feel you ARE being screwed, you don't have to remain bent over a barrel.

All you have to do is get up, wipe yourself down, pull on your pants and go elsewhere.

The OP is merely asking, do they want us or not? It's a fair question. So much defensiveness. "I understand it. I can handle it. Be more like me or leave." It's hard to believe someone is really as accepting and as acclimated as he pretends when he can't handle a perfectly reasonable question from a fellow foreigner without a pantload of condescension.

the OP's question is neither fair nor reasonable because it's obvious that nobody can answer it.

[Naam]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

"duel[sic] pricing what's that?"

'Says it all.

Next.

Claudius refers to the duels (sundays at dawn, my front garden, heavy sabres "sine sine") and the fees my gardener charges dressing wounds

[hawker9000]

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

Nobody really cares what you accept.

There is marketing out there for pretty much every product or service you can think of. It's up to the punter to decide whether he's being sold a deal of a lifetime or crock of shit.

Thailand is not a World Health Organisation-sanctioned retirement state. They don't assign a security guard/gofer to each retiree as he arrives with his suitcases to make sure he doesn't fall foul of the overcharging taxi driver or the light-fingered streetwalker.

No one's saying you deserve to get screwed but that, if you feel you ARE being screwed, you don't have to remain bent over a barrel.

All you have to do is get up, wipe yourself down, pull on your pants and go elsewhere.

The OP is merely asking, do they want us or not? It's a fair question. So much defensiveness. "I understand it. I can handle it. Be more like me or leave." It's hard to believe someone is really as accepting and as acclimated as he pretends when he can't handle a perfectly reasonable question from a fellow foreigner without a pantload of condescension.

the OP's question is neither fair nor reasonable because it's obvious that nobody can answer it.

Then neither are questions like "who should be president?" or "what's wrong with religion?". Such questions CAN be discussed, but the answers given will not necessarily conform to YOUR way of thinking even though no one can necessarily produce a simple factual answer because it's simply not that type of question. It's fair and it's reasonable because it CAN be discussed; not unfair and unreasonable because you don't like or agree with what everybody has to say. Not all questions are as unambiguous and "answerable" as "who won the World Cup last year?".

And what's obvious is that people DO have something to say about this question.

[Naam]

Then neither are questions like "who should be president?" or "what's wrong with religion?". Such questions CAN be discussed, but the answers given will not necessarily conform to YOUR way of thinking even though no one can necessarily produce a simple factual answer because it's simply not that type of question. It's fair and it's reasonable because it CAN be discussed; not unfair and unreasonable because you don't like or agree with what everybody has to say. Not all questions are as unambiguous and "answerable" as "who won the World Cup last year?".

And what's obvious is that people DO have something to say about this question.

right you are! if i asked "is it raining outside?" or "do you think my wife is ugly?" there will be people too who DO have something to say

[kg1947]

By putting UP hurdles ( bureaucratic & financial requirements ) they might as well just

ALLOW CRIMINALS to have " easy access " because THEY HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY

and can AFFORD IT . Pensioners need to budget & live accordingly .

Alternatives : Singapore is BEST but EXPENSIVE to live in .

MALAYSIA is a Moslem country , so is Indonesia. Except for Malaysia, the hurdles in

other countries are just as restricted , so who needs that .

Notice : THAILAND ELITE cost & privilege .

Edited September 5, 2015 by kg1947

[Kondiao]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

I don't think I've ever seen Thailand promoted in those terms. Do you have any examples?

Yes, every brochure that I have seen advertising Thailand shows young sexie women or idyllic mist-shrouded temples.

The literature that I studied on TEFL in Thailand - which I did not do since I was already too old and the Thais don't permit people to work at all with a visa for retirement purposes - advertised the LOS as an easy-going place to enjoy life. As opposed to Taiwan, where they offer subsidised housing for teachers and personal respect, and they don't put farangs in prison for teaching English without a WP.

Just what brought you to Thailand?

[Kondiao]

If we choose to live here then we abide by the prevailing conditions....

We by and large have no sway where we come from so to move to a different country/culture and impose what WE feel we WANT is a wrong approach....

It's part of the trade off......"They" didn't invite ANY of us here.....In effect some are biting the hand that feeds (infastructure/services) us.....

Personally I am happy in my life here....I will take happiness and contentment to the bank any day.....Some are not (seemingly) happy unless demanding something/whining/expecting what they don't deserve-haven't earned.....

Goes back to Democules.....

Actually "they" did "invite us."

The Thai Tourists agents promote their country as a paradise for old white men to retire to and a total whore house for the young and dumb, if they are rich.

And they do treat us with disrespect starting with the bureaucrats at the embassies and consulates abroad. The government does nothing to protect the ex-patriots from abroad from lying, cheating, thieving cab drivers, cops and bureaucrats, con persons and freaks.

The attitude of the nation - as represented by the government - is like, "you came to us," so: "we owe you nothing; you don't get respect; you don't have any right to complain about being treated with less dignity than all humans owe to every person." This in a nation of Buddhists so enlightened and advanced, where everyone spends time in monasteries so they know all about karma.

Are you trying to say that because you volunteered therefore you deserve to get screwed - because you paid your money you have the right to remain silent and take whatever we choose to do to you??

I don't accept that reasoning.

Nobody really cares what you accept.

There is marketing out there for pretty much every product or service you can think of. It's up to the punter to decide whether he's being sold a deal of a lifetime or crock of shit.

Thailand is not a World Health Organisation-sanctioned retirement state. They don't assign a security guard/gofer to each retiree as he arrives with his suitcases to make sure he doesn't fall foul of the overcharging taxi driver or the light-fingered streetwalker.

No one's saying you deserve to get screwed but that, if you feel you ARE being screwed, you don't have to remain bent over a barrel.

All you have to do is get up, wipe yourself down, pull on your pants and go elsewhere.

What do you mean, "Nobody cares what I accept."?

Obviously some people cared about my opinions, as other people have quoted me - without adding cheap sarcasm as you did.

I didn't say that I expected a WHO-sanctioned retirement state - I said I expected respect. Something you can't can't understand.

[i claudius]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

"duel[sic] pricing what's that?"

'Says it all.

Next.

Claudius refers to the duels (sundays at dawn, my front garden, heavy sabres "sine sine") and the fees my gardener charges dressing wounds

Ok so when i am typing quickly sometimes my spooling is not good , dual ok ? better

[i claudius]

Reading some of the things written here ,i wonder if i live in the same land as these people , my wife and i are always treated with respect by most people ,no problems at immegration ,always a smile , stopped for a traffic violation the police are polite , no dual pricing(ok Naam ?) although i know tourists get it ,but then they do most places in the world . could it be that i dont walk around in dirty shorts and a vest with my gut hanging out covered in tatts accompanied by a young woman with a skirt barely covering her butt and herself covered with a mass of tatts? but dress nicely speak politely and have a well educated wife who who is also polite, now if thats the case the way you are percieved and treated is the same most places in the world ,not just Thailand.

[superal]

Define and quantify "signifcant"

70 to 140 thousand in a populuation of 67 odd million is insignificant irrespective of the way you try and dress it up

I agree that was my point.

Thank you

Hello Mydee,

OK I take your point , however I will try to quantify .

First fact is that the last Thai census was taken in 2010 . That stated there were in excess of 200,000 retirees and foreigners on extended tourist visas etc . The ethnic Thai population within Thailand was 75% . The remaining 25% from Chinese 18% and other Asian countries .

Monetary calculations of contributions to the economy cannot be based simply on populus . E.G. a retired westerners income will probably exceed that of a Thai earner many times over . Also lets not forget the wealth of the Chinese .

Second fact is that 1% of the richest people own 50% of the global wealth . That analogy could be applicable here .The expat retiree could be out numbered by 100 million and my statement would probably still be accurate .

Finally I do appreciate your valid critique . It is good to know that some reader's digest the posts and are able to offer an area for debate .

Many thanks ,

Superal

[jspill]

put farangs in prison for teaching English without a WP.

Do they? In that '17 teachers in Chiang Mai' thread they were released within the day, with a small fine.