Peugeot 405 - engine cuts out very rarely, very briefly

[ClareQuilty]

I've been driving my new 30,000 baht 405 for many days now, and quite a few kilometers. I've become a lot more confident in it overall, except for one scary problem - the engine will 'cut out' on moderate acceleration, but only once in a while, and it only lasts for the briefest instant.

So brief in fact that this phenomenon has never caused the engine to die - it just loses power for an instant and is then back 'on'. This can happen whether the air is on or off, but I do seem to notice it happening more when the engine has been running for quite a while (say after an hour's drive).

I don't think I'm lugging the engine, so I haven't any clue what is causing this. Fuel injectors? Distributor cap?

[jabis]

Lambda sensor, ignition coil-pack (if this is the one with dual ignition coil system) and air intake vacuum hoses, and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor would come first in mind. Also check all ground wiring points, and fuel injector connectors for rust.

[phil2]

I had the same problem for a few months last year, and I bought 3 ignition coil packs. The situation improved each time I fitted a new one for a couple of days. The Peugeot mechanics are only interested in buying new parts because they get to keep the old one. I also serviced the LPG several times because I noticed it happened only when the car's running on LPG.

After changing the throttle body (it came with all the sensors), I came to the conclusion that it's sensor related, but I don't know which one.

You can try cleaning the carburetor to see if it'll help.

[ClareQuilty]

I had the same problem for a few months last year, and I bought 3 ignition coil packs. The situation improved each time I fitted a new one for a couple of days. The Peugeot mechanics are only interested in buying new parts because they get to keep the old one.

After changing the throttle body (it came with all the sensors), I came to the conclusion that it's sensor related, but I don't know which one.

You can try cleaning the carburetor to see if it'll help.

I guess I'm lucky that my mechanic isn't a Peugeot mechanic, so maybe he'll try to fix it another way. My car has no carburetor - it is fuel injected (about a 1996 model).

So, did you mean to state that the your similar problem is now gone? (that changing the throttle body fixed it?) If so, by the by, do you remember the cost?

[phil2]

The problem is gone. I paid B900 for a used throttle body, and fitted it myself.

I don't go near the Peugeot mechanics any more. One of the parts sellers told me they were taking me for a ride.

[ClareQuilty]

Lambda sensor, ignition coil-pack (if this is the one with dual ignition coil system) and air intake vacuum hoses, and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor would come first in mind. Also check all ground wiring points, and fuel injector connectors for rust.

Thanks Jabis, yeah a sensor does seem to be the most likely culprit. I had some very mild occasional engine knock when i ran a tank of 91 gasohol in it, now no knock when I refilled with 95 Benzine... so that kind of had me thinking about timing and distributor cap anyway. The car seems really 'heavy' in the throttle as well - very hard to push down the throttle, kind of reluctant to get going, but quite quick at higher speeds.

I was trying to conflate the two problems, but they may be unrelated.

I prefer a car that can run comfortably at lower engine speeds - I really hate revving. I guess its the American in me - I grew up with cars that we never revved past 2,000 RPMs and rarely went over 1,500.

[ClareQuilty]

The problem is gone. I paid B900 for a used throttle body, and fitted it myself.

I don't go near the Peugeot mechanics any more. One of the parts sellers told me they were taking me for a ride.

That's great you could fix it. By the way, what year is yours? Mine's about a '96, so its fuel injected. But, I suppose it still could have a 'throttle body'.

[arthurwait]

Yes fuel injected cars have a throttle body, 8 of them are best , but you will have one.

First of all have you checked the air filter and all pipes related to it from the air inlet to the engine.

It sounds like an air problem to me.As in an air leak, Knackered hose or gasket. Replacing a throttle body would require replacing the gasket. Replacing the gasket more likely did the trick than replacing the throttle body. I suppose it could have corroded and jammed or needed adjusting but...

As said on the other thread leaving a car standing for 5 years in a country with this weather you will have knackered pipes, seals, boots, o rings and gaskets. I imagine the next 6 months you will be chasing your tail finding more and more.

The problem IMO (while I'm completely knackered) is air inlet related due to a failed pipe, seal or gasket. Inlet manifold gasket, throttle body gasket, anything in the air filter system or even fuel injector seals.

You could remove your plugs and see what the condition of them is which may give you a clue.

Oh my car has the same problem, it cuts out for a second or so, it has a habit of doing this when you need to accelerate away from u-turns, but Volvo decided to do this themselves and call it E-drive.

[ClareQuilty]

I stopped by my mechanic's shop today, and he agreed a sensor was a possible or fairly likely culprit, so he had me leave the car for about an hour while he 'clean sensor'. Luckily I keep a very old and decrepit Honda Nova motorbike there at the repair shop, just for using while my car is being fixed.

I have no idea which sensor he cleaned or whether it was more than one sensor, but so far the problem hasn't re-appeared. Keeping in mind that I've only driven the car 8 kilometers since then so it wouldn't have been likely to have appeared in that time anyway (as we all know, that's the catch with intermittent problems).

At least it was a 'no charge' deal..

[phil2]

The problem is gone. I paid B900 for a used throttle body, and fitted it myself.

I don't go near the Peugeot mechanics any more. One of the parts sellers told me they were taking me for a ride.

That's great you could fix it. By the way, what year is yours? Mine's about a '96, so its fuel injected. But, I suppose it still could have a 'throttle body'.

1996

[phil2]

Yes fuel injected cars have a throttle body, 8 of them are best , but you will have one.

First of all have you checked the air filter and all pipes related to it from the air inlet to the engine.

It sounds like an air problem to me.As in an air leak, Knackered hose or gasket. Replacing a throttle body would require replacing the gasket. Replacing the gasket more likely did the trick than replacing the throttle body. I suppose it could have corroded and jammed or needed adjusting but...

As said on the other thread leaving a car standing for 5 years in a country with this weather you will have knackered pipes, seals, boots, o rings and gaskets. I imagine the next 6 months you will be chasing your tail finding more and more.

The problem IMO (while I'm completely knackered) is air inlet related due to a failed pipe, seal or gasket. Inlet manifold gasket, throttle body gasket, anything in the air filter system or even fuel injector seals.

You could remove your plugs and see what the condition of them is which may give you a clue.

Oh my car has the same problem, it cuts out for a second or so, it has a habit of doing this when you need to accelerate away from u-turns, but Volvo decided to do this themselves and call it E-drive.

I changed a lot of stuffs within the first month of getting mine as a pre-emptive measure, and I've not been able to find the exact spark plugs that came with mine in any of the Peugeot shops in BKK. Another thing that I was told (at Peugeot Bangkok and by some other people ) was that the Peugeot 405 engines are not LPG/NGV friendly.

[ClareQuilty]

I changed a lot of stuffs within the first month of getting mine as a pre-emptive measure, and I've not been able to find the exact spark plugs that came with mine in any of the Peugeot shops in BKK. Another thing that I was told (at Peugeot Bangkok and by some other people ) was that the Peugeot 405 engines are not LPG/NGV friendly.

As I have heard from nearly everyone I've talked to on the subject - avoid any car that has LPG/NGV: it burns up engines. Right now I have two Thai friends having expensive valve jobs on their newer cars due to burnt up valves from running LPG.

[WarpSpeed]

Don't be confused Clare, all engines do burn up eventually with or without LP but there are some like the ones you own that are more susceptible to it.. There are plenty of more hardy engines out there it's worth while to convert (mostly German manufacturers) and will save thousands of dollars in fuel costs over the course of it's life installation.

Edited September 10, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Sviss Geez]

Don't be confused Clare, all engines do burn up eventually with or without LP but there are some like the ones you own that are more susceptible to it.. There are plenty of more hardy engines out there it's worth while to convert (mostly German manufacturers) and will save thousands of dollars in fuel costs over the course of it's life installation.

"...will save thousands of dollars in fuel costs over the course of it's life installation."

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Any potential saving will depend on the installation cost, the period of time that the person paying for the conversion keeps the vehicle and the LPG price during that time. There is no guarantee that any particular individual will see overall savings, much less "thousands of dollars".

[Ace of Pop]

He didn't say "Individual", as any Individual with half a brain can read...W.S. referred to a Component running on Gas as opposed to Petrol over the lifetime of the Engine , thus representing a large saving..

[WarpSpeed]

He didn't say "Individual", as any Individual with half a brain can read...W.S. referred to a Component running on Gas as opposed to Petrol over the lifetime of the Engine , thus representing a large saving..

Regards for taking on the board pedantry on my behalf , glad some can comprehend and not even a native English speaker either, that's pretty shameful for those who are and still have difficulty doing so .

Yes Sviss Geez there are circumstances behind the post I made, but I figured a thinking and reasoned person with no other agenda then being contradictory and confrontational could see the content of my post for what it was forgot for a brief happy moment that you post here however. I personally saved hundreds but only owned them a few years, (have no idea how long the previous owners owned them or how much they saved but no doubt they did ok too), at the height of the petrol prices and the lows of LP and with a system that was already installed and paid for when I purchased the car and I sold on at least 2 of those cars and to my knowledge both of them are STILL saving their new owners hundreds or more since that time without any serious engine issues, of course I also tuned them even better to run on both fuels and left both new owners with good instructions on how to make them work the best and last the longest, which I also believe would increase the mileage out of the other less durable engines as well if applied properly. One was sold approximately 5 years ago and the other 3 years ago both older model VW products, I have recently corresponded to the new owner of the second car and it is still going strong with quite high mileage. Therefore the post stands as a proven fact of "thousands saved" over their lifetime because just during my brief ownership they saved me well over a thousand per car for certain.

Edited September 11, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Sviss Geez]

He didn't say "Individual", as any Individual with half a brain can read...W.S. referred to a Component running on Gas as opposed to Petrol over the lifetime of the Engine , thus representing a large saving..

A large saving to whom? As he was addressing his comment to an individual it was not unreasonable for anyone with half a brain to assume he was suggesting that individual could make that kind of saving. If a suggestion is made that a conversion is going to benefit an owner to the tune of thousands of dollars there has to be a subject that is going to benefit from that saving otherwise the saving is meaningless in practice.

If I convert a car that I own to LPG over the lifetime of that car (and that may be many decades) it may consume less LPG in value than petrol and that may save me thousands of dollars but if I keep the same car for only a few years, as most people do, and do the same kind of mileage that the average person does, I will not make anywhere near that saving.

[Sviss Geez]

He didn't say "Individual", as any Individual with half a brain can read...W.S. referred to a Component running on Gas as opposed to Petrol over the lifetime of the Engine , thus representing a large saving..

Regards for taking on the board pedantry on my behalf , glad some can comprehend and not even a native English speaker either, that's pretty shameful for those who are and still have difficulty doing so .

Yes Sviss Geez there are circumstances behind the post I made, but I figured a thinking and reasoned person with no other agenda then being contradictory and confrontational could see the content of my post for what it was forgot for a brief happy moment that you post here however. I personally saved hundreds but only owned them a few years, (have no idea how long the previous owners owned them or how much they saved but no doubt they did ok too), at the height of the petrol prices and the lows of LP and with a system that was already installed and paid for when I purchased the car and I sold on at least 2 of those cars and to my knowledge both of them are STILL saving their new owners hundreds or more since that time without any serious engine issues, of course I also tuned them even better to run on both fuels and left both new owners with good instructions on how to make them work the best and last the longest, which I also believe would increase the mileage out of the other less durable engines as well if applied properly. One was sold approximately 5 years ago and the other 3 years ago both older model VW products, I have recently corresponded to the new owner of the second car and it is still going strong with quite high mileage. Therefore the post stands as a proven fact of "thousands saved" over their lifetime because just during my brief ownership they saved me well over a thousand per car for certain.

I wasn't being pedantic, neither was I being contradictory or confrontational, I was stating a fact. The confrontational bit was, as always, your response to anything you see as criticism of your posts.

As you admitted, the cost of the LPG installation was taken out of your calculations making your suggestion that thousands of dollars could be saved meaningless in practice.

Whilst what I stated in my post was correct, your assertion that your post was a proven fact just isn't confirmable, simple as that.

[WarpSpeed]

Oh no of course you're never the one causing confrontation though here you are once again doing so and yet there always seems to be confrontation around your condescending and confrontational posts in EVERY thread you post in whether it's me or someone else, you're just an angel aren't you? Not being a door mat and knowing well what I post about before posting I will ALWAYS challenge people who post negatively against my informative posts based on my empirical experience and not just something I read on the Internet, over their mindless and baseless assumptions, most especially if their post is nonsense as yours ALWAYS are.

Your asinine assumptions that my calculations are meaningless are themselves meaningless, my calculations are spot on, I said thousands and I personally saved over a thousand myself in my short ownership clearly meaning that IF someone had the system already installed and used it for several years they'd save THOUSANDS of dollars during that time, especially in Thailand where the price of petrol is so high compared to the rest of the civilized world, end of, pedant.

FYI my word makes it confirmable since I'm not a liar and have more then enough professional expertise to go along with it just as ANY professional in ANY field who posts their personal findings does. Your comments do not trump mine just because you egotistically THINK it should, your just another poster posting like me you have no more credibility to discredit my posts anymore than anyone else's for that matter.

I didn't "admit" anything either, which implies that I lied in the first place, I clarified for you and only you as you seemed to have difficulty fully understanding the original post as sadly you still seem to. My original post does not include the cost of the system because it's not relevant to the content of my post, I intentionally went around it because I'm speaking in general terms (as was pointed out to you already) and it has nothing to do with the information I posted in my comment, that's just more of the argumentative pedantry that crops up in most of your posts, either that or you're just being intentionally obtuse, giving you some credit by saying "intentionally".

Edited September 12, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[arthurwait]

Oh no of course you're never the one causing confrontation though here you are once again doing so and yet there always seems to be confrontation around your condescending and confrontational posts in EVERY thread you post in whether it's me or someone else, you're just an angel aren't you? Not being a door mat and knowing well what I post about before posting I will ALWAYS challenge people who post negatively against my informative posts based on my empirical experience

[WarpSpeed]

Since that's so ambiguous I guess I'll take it meaning that you agree with me especially since no other meaning makes any sense whatsoever... Pretty certain that even Clare would agree that I've helped him with good advice and solving MANY of his issues even when others including you were giving him all sorts of grief over his issues but not a lot of helpful advice or encouragement.

Edited September 14, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Sviss Geez]

Oh no of course you're never the one causing confrontation...

Ho hum...

[Sviss Geez]

Since that's so ambiguous I guess I'll take it meaning that you agree with me especially since no other meaning makes any sense whatsoever...

I think you'll find that you're mistaken again.

[Ace of Pop]

Schools Open again.. He can post weekends , no P.C.

[JAS21]

I'm with Warpee on this one ... LPG installation can save a lot of money ... BUT for CQ who seems to buy what one can say 'close to junk' not a good idea as he is unlikely to even get his investment back before it's time to buy again

[WarpSpeed]

I agree JAS, and I appreciate your stand up comment too and of course I wasn't suggesting that Clare do this after the fact in which case he'd never get anything back only more trouble. No, my post was in contention and directed to the generally stated comment that it causes more trouble and cost then it is worth, and in his case (and many others) if the car does not already have it and if it is a model car that is not known to be durable enough to have it, I.E most Honda's due to valve material etc. then his comment is correct. IF, however, it is already installed, or you can install it and then keep the car for a few years to recover it's initial costs, you do certain things to aid the life of the engine and it is a car that demonstrates no signs of distress from it being installed previously or has little history of problems I.E. VW products for one example, and you purchase it and all other factors such as high petrol prices etc. (for the pedantic ones in attendance), are in place, then you can save THOUSANDS of dollars like I did with my cars over the lifetime or ownership of that car and it's use, before requiring ANY head repair.

It's pretty clear and not that much of a stretch to those like yourself who wish to understand that if you bought a car with it already installed and you do not incur the cost of it's installation and it was only done maybe a few years prior so little mileage on the car post installation, or, if you did have it installed at a relatively early stage and then kept the car for several years and drive it often enough, (not once a week to the corner store for beer), it is going to save you literally thousands which is again my original post only now laid out so that the pedantic among us can hopefully understand. I'm not hopeful though, there still seems to be a niche group of grade school imbeciles in attendance who are just interested in instigating confrontations instead of providing real substance to the topic at hand (which BTW changed direction, by the OP, another required disclaimer for the same niche group of instigators).

[WarpSpeed]

BTW SG, just how many LP cars have you actually owned anyway that gives you such a pathetic understanding of the potential savings? Of course once again you made 2 more posts with no substance only more condescending attempts at a confrontation, you must be a very sad individual to have to post so many instigational posts to feel any personal self worth.

Anxiously awaiting the likely made up or dodgy response regarding the cars you've personally owned?

Edited September 14, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Ace of Pop]

The E85 I run on stinks like Nail Varnish remover ,at least Gas is no smell.

[Sviss Geez]

BTW SG, just how many LP cars have you actually owned anyway that gives you such a pathetic understanding of the potential savings? Of course once again you made 2 more posts with no substance only more condescending attempts at a confrontation, you must be a very sad individual to have to post so many instigational posts to feel any personal self worth.

Anxiously awaiting the likely made up or dodgy response regarding the cars you've personally owned?

Well, that's not confrontational at all, is it?

Don't hold your breath, you'll wait a long time for me to rise to your sabre rattling.

[Sviss Geez]

Schools Open again.. He can post weekends , no P.C.

God, such a funny man.