Wherez Dem Kiddie-fiddlers?

[polecat]

I remember seeing old white geezers shuffling around Bar Beers in town with little girls and boys, going back about six or seven years. Have they been driven out of town now, or are they still lurking? Recent arrest of Kenneth Harding would suggest Paedo-tourists still head north.

[davethailand]

HOPEFULLY THEY ARE ALL BEHIND BARS WITH THEIR DICKS CUT OFF.

[polecat]

Couldn't agree with you more, Dave. But there's that old problem of not knowing how big the problem is if it has indeed moved underground. I've heard rumours of the Tourist Police sending pictures they've confiscated to each others mobiles - hardly reassuring.

[p1p]

Last year found myself helping an Aussie detective who was looking for a local ex-pat supposedly running paedo-tours in CM. Was able to give the man's home address but am led to believe he fled the roost before arrest was made. (He was from OZ but passed himself off as a Kiwi. )

Been watching the news since for his real name or pseudonames he was known to use, but have, as yet, seen nothing.

As a father of four, anybody who tries it on with one of my children will need protection from the authorities.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Last year found myself helping an Aussie detective who was looking for a local ex-pat supposedly running paedo-tours in CM. Was able to give the man's home address but am led to believe he fled the roost before arrest was made. (He was from OZ but passed himself off as a Kiwi. )

Been watching the news since for his real name or pseudonames he was known to use, but have, as yet, seen nothing.

As a father of four, anybody who tries it on with one of my children will need protection from the authorities.

I didn't think that an Ozzie kiddie fiddler would stoop so low as to pass himself off as a Kiwi

[Ajarn]

As anyone living here knows, living here means no limitations to anyone with money. ANYTHING is possible here, and there are sleazy folks everywhere in Thailand, and certainly Chiang Mai has more than its share, in my experience.

Pedophiles are often the people one would least suspect. Many pedophiles are quite good at manipulating not only children, but adults, too. In Chiang Mai, it's very easy for pedophiles to live a quiet life, going unnoticed by most...Only their neighbor might have some clue, but only might....

Frankly, odds are, there are even pedophiles in this group.....

[lamphun]

In Chiang Mai, it's very easy for pedophiles to live a quiet life, going unnoticed by most...Only their neighbor might have some clue, but only might....

Frankly, odds are, there are even pedophiles in this group.....

Know a few people who used to go after these guys with a lot of prejudice. It'd probably be better to out these types. The cops don't seem interested however peer pressure might force them to get out of town.

Maybe the Chiang Mai Mail could name and shame them. P1P might start by telling us the name of the scumbag he was chasing.

On the flip side, I've had vague suspicions about a couple of people and heard some accusations against people I don't know. Personally I'd be careful before accusing anybody of being a pedophile without some proof.

Pedophiles in this group ? Could be. An online forum doesn't guarentee the character of the poster.

[Jeepz]

lamphun et al~

Gee why would you worry about someone's reputation, lamphun? Just out them and if they aren't guilty of that, well, they must have been guilty of something else right? And if there's smoke there must be fire, right?

I detest the damage done by pedophiles. Truly. But I watch people just start to foam at the mouth when the subject comes up, I realize that they don't have a clue. It is the <deleted> witch trials again. Someone points and let's hang that one, someone else points again and let's hang another one too!

Yes the perverts out there need to be caught and punished. Locked away for a long long time. But there are people that have had their lives destroyed that did nothing. Zero. Zip. False accusations and even false memories courtesy of "couselors" with an agenda. DA's prosecuting very flakey cases because they are up for re-election. The flip side of this pedophile coin is another tragedy.

Going through a bad divorce and hubby isn't coughing up enough moolah, or you are just pissed at him and want to zap the SOB with a cattle prod? File a molestation charge on the sorry sucker.

Teachers in our schools (where I live in the US) can't touch a kid, can't give them a hug if they need it. Why? Because it might be construed as an advance.

And I realize Thailand has it's own problems in this area and no one wants to let some sleazeball guy get away with it. But if there is a real situation, turn it into the authorties. Don't be posting their names here because you or someone you know thinks the person is a deviant. That turns us into the judge and jury. And we aren't. Not to mention if you were wrong, some places in the world, you and the people running the board would be up for some major litigation. Which would only be fair, imho.

Jeepz

[lopburi3]

Although this sounds more like a troll than an honest question last week I had the misfortune to encounter a 'foreign female teacher' at a Chiang Mai pool while watching/life guard my grandchildren swimming. She came over to me and asked in a very rude manner "do you like to watch children swim?". I explained my grand children were in the pool and got a 3rd degree from this righteous lady from(OZ?). As she was half my age can't assume you was trying to pick me up so the other inference would be that she assumed because I am old and most of the people at the pool were young there was something amiss even though on any given day there would be Thai fathers doing the very same thing. Be very careful as there are many of us with children and grand children who suffer your needless and insensitive stares and comments.

[lamphun]

Lopburi

I understand what your saying. This is almost, but not quite on a par with a friend of mine who used to get some weird looks when he took his stepson out. I think the expression is "A dirty mind is an endless feast".

People always love to think the worst.

Jeepz

Think you’ve jumped to the wrong conclusions about my views. I was saying that you shouldn't accuse people on rumors or on the word of others who may have some axe to grind.

However this doesn’t get away from the fact there’s a small minority of farangs in Chiang Mai who are obvious b*****ds. Why should we pretend that these people are none of our business. P1P is right and they should be sorted out. They are bad and as farangs they make us look bad.

A while back I was having a quiet drink in a bar on that road beloved of all residents of this forum, ok Loi Kroh. A youngish American girl came in and started passing round leaflets in English which read;

Don’t have sex with children !

While I agreed with her intentions, I was a bit pissed off that somebody should feel that they had to point this out to me. One of the people I was with told her the facts of life. “Get your leaflets printed in Thai and Chinese and hand them out in Santi Tham”

[chanchao]

> A while back I was having a quiet drink in a bar on that road beloved of

> all residents of this forum, ok Loi Kroh. A youngish American girl came

> in and started passing round leaflets in English which read;

> Don’t have sex with children !

:-) Cool. Was she doing this on her own initiative or from some organisation? I know Empower often hand out leaflets and/or newsletters, but mostly to bar workers, who are their target. Empower is a pretty alright NGO as far as NGO's go.

> While I agreed with her intentions, I was a bit pissed off that somebody

> should feel that they had to point this out to me. One of the people I was

> with told her the facts of life. “Get your leaflets printed in Thai and

> Chinese and hand them out in Santi Tham”

I think Santi Tham is history.

I think I'd rather say something like "Sex with children.. hey, where are those children? Just see some old aunties here.. (pointing at the staff) ? bet most are older than you are? See if that would could get her worked up.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[lamphun]

Why do you say Santhi Tham is history.

Perhaps you mean the housewives, which was nowhere near Santi Tham. Don't fool yourself, this sh1t will go on as long as the police are corrupt and underpaid. In other words for the foresee-able future.

[chanchao]

> Why do you say Santhi Tham is history.

I drive past that road from Chang Phuak bus station past the fire station to the road that ends up at Hua Rin corner (near Central) a lot (Hadsadissawee Road or some such) and for years I didn't notice the infamous pink lighted concrete shacks anymore.

> Perhaps you mean the housewives

[Pet peeve mode on, not directed at you or this topic]: "Housewives" my bottom!! "A brothel with young semi indentured girls from China and Burma" it is..!! (Or was, I don't know). It seems there's actually foreigners in Chiang Mai believing those are really housewives working extra on the side? You'd have to be deaf and blind and seriously intoxicated not to notice what goes on there.. [Pet peeve mode off]

> Don't fool yourself, this sh1t will go on as long as the police

> are corrupt and underpaid.

Yes.. But I assumed it moved from Santitham to other places. Just like it moved away from Kamphaeng Din before.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[polecat]

Couple of points. The detective guy who was out hunting the fiddler, well I wonder if it was this Kiwi bloke (Gary Shaw or something) who works for the International Justice Mission (www.IJM.org). He was here recently and upsetting Consulates and lawyers all over town. It's an independent group made up of Christian lawyers and detectives who have turned into some kind of bourgeoise vigilante group. Anyway, this guy has turned up at police stations flashing some business card or other threatened prisoners and so on. The Thai police haven't got a clue who he is but presume he's legal and let him in. I think good for the ijm, but it's still scary to think there are religious nutters dsabbling in international affairs.

Second point is about Empower - great idea in that support for sex workers is vital. Unfortunately, while they defend the right for women to work as prostitutes, they lambast the men who use them. That don't equate with me.

[chanchao]

> while they defend the right for women to work as prostitutes,

> they lambast the men who use them. That don't equate with me.

I don't get that feeling at all. Some perhaps privately feel that way, but especially the people who've been working for Empower for a long time I don't get that feeling at all, and there's definitely no official program of policy that interferes with prostitute's customers in any way. Like you already said, that wouldn't make logical sense.

Also note that if they would try to do disturb the clientele, they wouldn't be as welcome in bars anymore. Instead they just go in for a drink and many girls seem to really like them. (As they do respect the girls, which is another thing that's different from other NGOs who only see girls as poor little victims)

The only think that I could possibly fault them for is that they perhaps over-focus on bars where foreigners go, as these are typically not the places where the biggest problems are. In all fairness they do target other sections of the 'market' as well, but I guess foreigner bars are just more accessible. Note that many people in Empower also think more effort is needed on the local bottom end of the scene, i.e. brothels and ladyhouses... All people in Empower I've talked to on these and other issues where very up-front about their difficulties and short-comings.. It was almost scary because we agreed on pretty much everything.

[polecat]

Fair enough, Chanchao. I agree that most people involved with Empower are realistic and have a clear and hopefully attainable set of goals. However, I think you are talking about the core members who have made it their vocation in some way, whereas maybe I'm really thinking of the casual supporters who like the basic premise but have no interest in any kind progressive work. The impression I've got from speaking to several supporters is that it's attracting a lot of people eager to strengthen Western women's perceptions of empowerment, without being culturally attuned in any way. Again, this is far from an attack on the organisation itself or the work they do.

Whoops we're getting way off topic aren't we.

[john b good]

I don't really think that anyone who gave it some thought was of the understanding that the girls of "housewives" were really a bunch of little homemakers doing their bit to supplement their household expences.

Sure some will have undoubtably been married but equally as many not so.

I heard of someone who actually set up house with a girl from "hosewives" and at my last hearing they were still a happy little family.

It takes all sorts don't it.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Think about this, there is one guy around town in his 60s who hangs around The Gate all the time with fairly young boys, when he's in town.

He is -supposedly- the biggest pedophile around these parts, however, I have never seen him with any actual children at all.

I do remember that a few years ago he had a business altercation with a real nutcase, who spread the rumor that he was a child molester everywhere, for several years after the business problem.

No proof, but lots of accusations.

Now, everyone in Chiang Mai thinks that the first guy is a pedophile, but he lives in the same apartments as I do, and I have always seen him with boys in their late teens and early twenties.

Everyone believes it, but how does anyone know that he is a nonce?

Be careful about believing liars, because their pointy fingers might be pointed next at you!

[One paragraph removed, as well as follow up posts that were a continuation of an argument on another topic in the General-section. /Chanchao]

Edited May 4, 2004 by chanchao

[Johpa]

Yes.. But I assumed it moved from Santitham to other places. Just like it moved away from Kamphaeng Din before.

Admittedly it has been many, many years, but I don't remember seeing underage women in the vicinity of Kampeng Din (AKA the wall) or around Santitham.

[Maejo Man]

Some years ago the major crime supression unit arrived from Bangkok "en mass" They started at that well known sleaze pit "Las Vegas" and moved along the road till they came out at the klong. Some six hundred underage girls (mostly Burmese) were rounded up and "repatriated" from all the bars. They then progressed to Santithum, and did exactly the same!

It would seem that the local police had vested interests in a lot of the establishments, and were not about to do anything to rectify the underage problem, hence the visit form the Bangkok boys in brown.

Kampaengdin has been like a kid's playground for years. Way back when, you could get a BJ in the "Tunnel of love" for fifty baht. The old "tunnel" is now a rather beautiful garden setting on the corner of Loi Kroh and Kampaengdin.

Times change! In years gone by there were wall to wall "establishments" from Loi Kroh all the way down to Sridonchai on the opposite side to the Mae Ping hotel. If you look real hard today, you just might find that there is one left

[Bleeder]

I remember seeing old white geezers shuffling around Bar Beers in town with little girls and boys, going back about six or seven years. Have they been driven out of town now, or are they still lurking? Recent arrest of Kenneth Harding would suggest Paedo-tourists still head north.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They all work as English teachers these days.

[Thomas_Merton]

lamphun et al~

Gee why would you worry about someone's reputation, lamphun?  Just out them and if they aren't guilty of that, well, they must have been guilty of something else right?  And if there's smoke there must be fire, right? 

I detest the damage done by pedophiles.  Truly.  But I watch people just start to foam at the mouth when the subject comes up, I realize that they don't have a clue.  It is the &lt;deleted&gt; witch trials again.  Someone points and let's hang that one, someone else points again and let's hang another one too!

Yes the perverts out there need to be caught and punished.  Locked away for a long long time.  But there are people that have had their lives destroyed that did nothing.  Zero.  Zip.  False accusations and even false memories courtesy of "couselors" with an agenda.  DA's prosecuting very flakey cases because they are up for re-election.  The flip side of this pedophile coin is another tragedy. 

Going through a bad divorce and hubby isn't coughing up enough moolah, or you are just pissed at him and want to zap the SOB with a cattle prod?  File a molestation charge on the sorry sucker. 

Teachers in our schools (where I live in the US) can't touch a kid, can't give them a hug if they need it.  Why?  Because it might be construed as an advance. 

And I realize Thailand has it's own problems in this area and no one wants to let some sleazeball guy get away with it.  But if there is a real situation, turn it into the authorties.  Don't be posting their names here because you or someone you know thinks the person is a deviant.  That turns us into the judge and jury.  And we aren't.  Not to mention if you were wrong, some places in the world, you and the people running the board would be up for some major litigation.  Which would only be fair, imho. 

Jeepz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the more sensible postings in this thread.

Paedophilia is a crime.

And, like all suspected or observed crimes, should be reported to the relevant authorities - which is, in the case of all crimes, ONLY the Police.

Any other actions taken by the public is tantamount to vigilantism - which is also a crime.

The Law, Police, Lawyers, Juries and Judges NEVER support private actions in these matters.

More problems are caused by unskilled interference in affairs than often by the crime itself.

So be a good citizen - tell a cop and STOP just there.

[lamphun]

Odd that this old thread has been re-opened. Especially as the last poster just repeated an old post.

It was kind of relevent about 16 months ago for reasons known to a lot of people. Is there some reason it's on your mind ?

Edited July 3, 2005 by lamphun

[Thomas_Merton]

Odd that this old thread has been re-opened. Especially as the last poster just repeated an old post.

It was kind of relevent about 16 months ago for reasons known to a lot of people. Is there some reason it's on your mind ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not re-open this thread - the previous poster did.

[lamphun]

Odd that this old thread has been re-opened. Especially as the last poster just repeated an old post.

It was kind of relevent about 16 months ago for reasons known to a lot of people. Is there some reason it's on your mind ?

I did not re-open this thread - the previous poster did.

You are however using it to increase your post count. It's a form of spam.

[p1p]

This is one of the more sensible postings in this thread.

Paedophilia is a crime.

And, like all suspected or observed crimes, should be reported to the relevant authorities - which is, in  the case of all crimes, ONLY the Police.

Any other actions taken by the public is tantamount to vigilantism - which is also a crime.

The Law, Police, Lawyers, Juries and Judges NEVER support private actions in these matters.

More problems are caused by unskilled interference in affairs than often by the crime itself.

So be a good citizen - tell a cop and STOP just there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Jeepz & Thomas for putting a sensible face on this vile subject at last. Thgis is the ONLY sensible action to take.

In the case of Chiang Mai, there are good avenues to report suspicions you may have. The lady in charge of the rape/sexual crimes unit at Mae Ping police station is very good. There are also police agencies represented here from several other countries. You can contact them through your consulate or embassy.

Finally, if anybody has any genuine information and wish to remain anonymous, you arewelcome to PM me, and I will ensure the correct authorities are notified.

Do not revert to mob (in)justice by destroying a (possibly) innocent's name for the world to see on the internet.

[Thomas_Merton]

Odd that this old thread has been re-opened. Especially as the last poster just repeated an old post.

It was kind of relevent about 16 months ago for reasons known to a lot of people. Is there some reason it's on your mind ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not re-open this thread - the previous poster did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are however using it to increase your post count. It's a form of spam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You, on the other hand, seem to have managed, without any apparent difficulty, to waste bandwidth by posting several times in this thread without having made a single point relevant to the thread.

Pot, kettle and black mean anything at all to you?

[lamphun]

Not in this case Tommy. If you've got nothing to say you might keep it to yourself.

Note that we joined about the same time but you've got three times as many posts. Must be a lot going on.