Work online for an overseas company...

[MeHere]

Hi All!

I'm just trying to confirm... is it legal or not to work online for an overseas company and live in Thailand, receiving pay from that overseas company in a Thai bank account?

I can't see anything prohibiting this.

[h90]

Without work permit it is not legal, I think.

But of course if you sit in your room and type in your computer who would know if you play World of Tanks or work.....

[Shot]

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

[h90]

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

Well in his home country he would pay income tax for it.....

[Shot]

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

Well in his home country he would pay income tax for it.....

True, but a regular payment from an offshore company might raise questions at a local Thai bank. Probably not, but maybe. Set up deposit offshore in any country with best benefits.

[Cypress Hill]

Strictly speaking it's not legal but Labor Ministry or Immigration will have zero interest in you.

[rocketboybkk]

You take your chances mate, work is work & it only takes one call to scree you up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IMA_FARANG]

This topic has been discussed to death before.

A short synopsis of the long discussion is:

Technically, you are not allowed to perform "work" in Thailand without a work permit.

"Work" is considered as exerting an effort in Thailand for a profitable purpose..

Whether or not you receive compensation for this "work" is irrelevant ..... even if you don't get paid in Thailand if you do the work in Thailand for another company or person just the fact that effort is in Thailand means you are "working" in Thailand.

So just working on your computer is considered work.

In reality, however, the department of Labor does not have the personnel or the time and money to go after everyone who "works" on-line in Thailand, so almost no one is ever bothered, even though what they are doing is technically illegal without a work permit.

And, no matter what some people tell you, there is now such thing in Thailand as a "self-employed" or on-line work permit.

[gk10002000]

if he was a US citizen working overseas, it wouldn't matter where the money is paid into. He is liable to account to the IRS all his earnings. Of course he may be eligible for foreign income exclusion, and other things.

[gk10002000]

This topic has been discussed to death before.

A short synopsis of the long discussion is:

Technically, you are not allowed to perform "work" in Thailand without a work permit.

"Work" is considered as exerting an effort in Thailand for a profitable purpose..

Whether or not you receive compensation for this "work" is irrelevant ..... even if you don't get paid in Thailand if you do the work in Thailand for another company or person just the fact that effort is in Thailand means you are "working" in Thailand.

So just working on your computer is considered work.

In reality, however, the department of Labor does not have the personnel or the time and money to go after everyone who "works" on-line in Thailand, so almost no one is ever bothered, even though what they are doing is technically illegal without a work permit.

And, no matter what some people tell you, there is now such thing in Thailand as a "self-employed" or on-line work permit.

I wonder about all the people over the years that took sabbaticals, traveled, wrote travel blogs, etc., or took long breaks and wrote books, contributed to magazine articles, etc.

[Fab5BKK]

I'd open a personal offshore bank account with internet banking + a Visa debit card... your account could be multi-currency if needed.

Or, set up an offshore company and then open an offshore bank account for the company. If you use this route, I'll recommend to set up your company in one country and your bank account in another one.

Even better, use nominees.

It's very easy to do!

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

Well in his home country he would pay income tax for it.....

True, but a regular payment from an offshore company might raise questions at a local Thai bank. Probably not, but maybe. Set up deposit offshore in any country with best benefits.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Fab5BKK

[daveAustin]

No worries. Only an issue if you blab and someone has a bee in their bonnet.

[jspill]

The Alien Labor act uses a circular reference to define working as 'working' then goes on to only mention having an employer in Thailand, a Thai Baht salary etc.

No one's ever been prosecuted before a judge for working online. However low level police officers or immigration officials may get confused as to what you're doing as soon as they hear the word 'work', so some would say its best just to say you're a tourist.

However people have been told 'no problem for you' etc. when they explained what they do.

When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

Edited September 8, 2015 by jspill

[JLCrab]

If you are here on a Tourist Visa then you have probably signed to some variation of this declaration on the Thai Visa Application Form:

Attention for Tourist and Transit Visa Applicants :

I hereby declare that the purpose of my visit to Thailand is for pleasure or transit only and that in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

Up to you.

[jspill]

^ Common sense dictates that declaration applies to physical work in the country, laborers, manual work etc as it says on the criteria for persona non grata.

'Persons not wanted in Thailand - Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training'

http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

[JLCrab]

^ Common sense dictates that declaration applies to physical work in the country, laborers, manual work etc as it says on the criteria for persona non grata.

'Persons not wanted in Thailand - Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training'

http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

I believe accountant and lawyers are prohibited 'professions' as mentioned on the link above as are other non-manual types of work.

[NOC]

Put your head down and go to work. Stop posting questions about it or you're going to f it up!

[JLCrab]

Put your head down and go to work. Stop posting questions about it or you're going to f it up!

Probably true but sometimes down the road what someone signed as a mere technicality proves to be other than a mere technicality.

[fireplay]

Any recommendations on an offshore bank? I was thinking singapore instead of the Direct Deposit here in thailand. Also i just read that the first $100,000 earned yearly overseas is untaxable from the states. Is this true?

[rwdrwdrwd]

In terms of legality / WP requirement, nobody can say for sure. Thai legislation prohibits 'work' but the definition of 'work' is entirely open to interpretation. There are no prior examples of people being prosecuted when operating in the manner you describe, but that does not mean it is legal.

In terms of tax, if you get paid direct to a Thai bank account and spent > 180 days in Thailand in that tax year, you will be liable to income tax in Thailand on all income. If you get paid into an account in your home country you will likely be subject to income tax there, regardless of whether you spend a day in the country.

With this in mind, Fab5BKK's advice is good - best to open an offshore personal account in Singapore and either get paid there directly, or start a BVI company with HK banking and then pay yourself dividends to the personal Singapore account. This would be 100% tax free, and so long as you can keep income there until Jan 1st, you can then bring any amount to Thailand without it being subject to Thai income tax.

@fireplay - Citibank IPB is good imo - not sure on the 100k US, have heard the same but others will know intricacies better than me.

Edited September 9, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[vaultdweller0013]

Any recommendations on an offshore bank? I was thinking singapore instead of the Direct Deposit here in thailand. Also i just read that the first $100,000 earned yearly overseas is untaxable from the states. Is this true?

If you are not living in the US, the first 105k or so of foreign (non-US) earned income so it not taxed (I don't remember the exact amount). The easy way to qualify for this is to be out of the US for 330 or more days in a year. It is also possible to claim this if you are out of the US for less than 330 days, but the criteria that you need to show to the IRS are less clear and I really don't understand them because it isn't relavent to me.

This is only for non-US sources of income, which could be a difficulty if you are "working on-line" and there is any potential connection between your on-line employer or clients and the US. I would actually be more concerned about this than the issue with working in Thailand.

You can also take a credit or deduction for foreign tax paid or a deduction for housing costs. You still get the standard deduction as well, so the net effect is that you need to be making well over 100k before you would need to start paying taxes AND either not paying taxes overseas and have low housing costs. Note that you still need to file taxes each year -- you have to file to claim the deductions/credits/etc, so it you don't you technically owe tax on everything.

Also note that depending on which state you last lived in in the US, you may have to file special paperwork, otherwise they may still want to treat you as a resident subject to their taxes.

If you live in Thailand, the money that is brought into the country in the same year it is earned is subject to tax.

EDIT: The 100k excluded from taxes is called the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion if you want to research it further. Also, if you do setup any non-US bank account, you will (almost certainly) need to file an FBAR reporting the account and balance -- this is completely separate from your income taxes, where you may need to also report them, but the threshold for reporting with you taxes is higher than your FBAR. Also, expect to be asked to fill in a W-9 reporting your US tax details when opening your overseas (non-US) account.

Edited September 9, 2015 by vaultdweller0013

[thaivaper]

and if you are managing your investments, trading etc from an overseas broker and overseas account..would be considered working in Thailand?

[yellowboat]

It is better not to get paid in Thailand, but to open an HK or Singaporean bank account. They do not tax earnings from outside their territories. That is what a Thai person in your situation would do. In the strict interpretation of the law, you cannot work. That would include building a boat just for your own pleasure.

If it does not matter where you reside, Malaysia and Cambodia are more likely to just leave you alone. If you are addicted to Thailand, you will need to get visas different Thai embassies and consulates until they just stop issuing them to you. Just be ready to move should the need arise.

Edited September 9, 2015 by yellowboat

[Friendly Stranger]

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

Well in his home country he would pay income tax for it.....

True, but a regular payment from an offshore company might raise questions at a local Thai bank. Probably not, but maybe. Set up deposit offshore in any country with best benefits.

It would't be smart to get paid directly into a Thai bank acct. Get it deposited to your acct back home and transfer it to Thailand. And if anyone says anything, this is from your savings. No different than when I used to day trade abroad and transfer it in.

[Soutpeel]

The Alien Labor act uses a circular reference to define working as 'working' then goes on to only mention having an employer in Thailand, a Thai Baht salary etc.

No one's ever been prosecuted before a judge for working online. However low level police officers or immigration officials may get confused as to what you're doing as soon as they hear the word 'work', so some would say its best just to say you're a tourist.

However people have been told 'no problem for you' etc. when they explained what they do.

When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

Interesting but irrelevant, given the Thai language version of the law takes presedence and is the offical version and i have been told the moon is made of cheese, but just because i have been told some thing doesnt make it true

[Soutpeel]

and if you are managing your investments, trading etc from an overseas broker and overseas account..would be considered working in Thailand?

No its fine, where this would cross the line would be the minute you do it for someone else

[Friendly Stranger]

and if you are managing your investments, trading etc from an overseas broker and overseas account..would be considered working in Thailand?

Funny enough I saw your post as I used this as my example.

Not a chance in hell would this be scrutinized, since you're paying the taxes on it back home this would be deemed as personal banking and it could never be proven if they even tried.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Friendly Stranger

[NOC]

In terms of legality / WP requirement, nobody can say for sure. Thai legislation prohibits 'work' but the definition of 'work' is entirely open to interpretation. There are no prior examples of people being prosecuted when operating in the manner you describe, but that does not mean it is legal.

In terms of tax, if you get paid direct to a Thai bank account and spent > 180 days in Thailand in that tax year, you will be liable to income tax in Thailand on all income. If you get paid into an account in your home country you will likely be subject to income tax there, regardless of whether you spend a day in the country.

With this in mind, Fab5BKK's advice is good - best to open an offshore personal account in Singapore and either get paid there directly, or start a BVI company with HK banking and then pay yourself dividends to the personal Singapore account. This would be 100% tax free, and so long as you can keep income there until Jan 1st, you can then bring any amount to Thailand without it being subject to Thai income tax.

@fireplay - Citibank IPB is good imo - not sure on the 100k US, have heard the same but others will know intricacies better than me.

It's 92,000 USD tax free.

[Suradit69]

I wouldn't receive regular payments from a company into a Thai bank account. Have it deposited into an account in home country or ???. Other than that, pretty much what h90 said.

Well in his home country he would pay income tax for it.....

True, but a regular payment from an offshore company might raise questions at a local Thai bank. Probably not, but maybe. Set up deposit offshore in any country with best benefits.

And you think some bank would notify immigrations because they suspect he's employed and they would know he doesn't have a work permit??

The payments could easily be income from some investment or extended termination benefits or pension or any number of other things. I seriously doubt some lower level bank clerk processing 1000's of deposits is going to start playing Inspector Clouseau.

[Soutpeel]

In terms of legality / WP requirement, nobody can say for sure. Thai legislation prohibits 'work' but the definition of 'work' is entirely open to interpretation. There are no prior examples of people being prosecuted when operating in the manner you describe, but that does not mean it is legal.

In terms of tax, if you get paid direct to a Thai bank account and spent > 180 days in Thailand in that tax year, you will be liable to income tax in Thailand on all income. If you get paid into an account in your home country you will likely be subject to income tax there, regardless of whether you spend a day in the country.

With this in mind, Fab5BKK's advice is good - best to open an offshore personal account in Singapore and either get paid there directly, or start a BVI company with HK banking and then pay yourself dividends to the personal Singapore account. This would be 100% tax free, and so long as you can keep income there until Jan 1st, you can then bring any amount to Thailand without it being subject to Thai income tax.

@fireplay - Citibank IPB is good imo - not sure on the 100k US, have heard the same but others will know intricacies better than me.

Citi IPB is good provided your not a US citizen and if memory serves its 98k not 100 but one still needs to submit a tax return and one suspects source of income will come into play as well, as if income if US sourced or a US company this oversea allowance may not apply Edited September 9, 2015 by Soutpeel